"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 1807

Originally Posted by kbarnes701

Good idea. Any suggestions from anyone on a list of 'don'ts' would be welcome.

Originally Posted by mogorf

#1. "Don't tilt the mic!" Hah!

Originally Posted by wingnut4772

... However, the AVS forum wouldn't be what it is without obsession (or is it passion?) :-). ...

Originally Posted by kbarnes701


Thanks for sharing that reply from Chris. I think his reply points to something I have suspected for a long time - that we tend to overthink things here on the thread I spend a silly amount of time, for example, when I do a calibration to make sure that the mic is exactly vertical in all planes. I am sure that it makes no real difference if it is slightly off (and Chris seems to confirm that) but I can't help but do it. I suspect a lot of the other 'lore' is similarly overthought - mic positions for example measured to the inch and so on. But as Chris says, where would the thread be without our obsession passion!

Originally Posted by tandy1000rl

My last word on the topic: either grazing angle is important or it's not; in addition, tweeters should either be pointed at the microphone or not. Many are trying to have it both ways (which was the point of raising the topic in the first place). Great results can be had either way, but by definition the mic must be calibrated to a single optimal setup which implies the best results must adhere to that paradigm. There are no self-tuning or learning microphones of which i'm aware, and Audyssey has no user inputs on these matters. If the system is tuned for monopole surrounds at 90 degrees, then using any other type of loudspeaker at any other height is sub-optimal compared to the ideal, yes? There are infinite "really greats" but only one optimum.

How similar Audyssey can make "really great" sound "optimal" is a testament to its engineering, but if I can get optimal laboratory results using any grazing angle that coincides with how I've setup my speakers, then there really is no need for direction on this topic because it clearly wouldn't matter. I think it does matter, as I've seen with my own eyes and heard with my own ears how HF changes with grazing angle, plus the finding coincides with the incessant direction to point the mic at the ceiling, aim speakers at MLP, etc.

To see folks now dismissing the importance of grazing angle when it comes to real world setups is quite odd. Especially tomorrow when they proclaim tilting the mic is bad because it's calibrated for a certain grazing angle. Oh my.

Originally Posted by asere

In a nutshell what your saying it is ok to tilt the mic?

Originally Posted by tandy1000rl

oh my.

Originally Posted by geodon005

Here is a response I got from Chris to my question about mic calibration and ceiling speakers a couple of years ago:

"Since your speakers are in the ceiling it can be beneficial to tilt the mic back slightly so that sound from the speakers hits the mic at a grazing angle."

This is what I have done - just a couple of degrees off of vertical - and can attest that it does sound better than having calibrated Audyssey with the mic at true vertical.

Originally Posted by geodon005

Here is a response I got from Chris to my question about mic calibration and ceiling speakers a couple of years ago:

"Since your speakers are in the ceiling it can be beneficial to tilt the mic back slightly so that sound from the speakers hits the mic at a grazing angle."

This is what I have done - just a couple of degrees off of vertical - and can attest that it does sound better than having calibrated Audyssey with the mic at true vertical.

Originally Posted by asere

The mic has to be tilted enough to point right at the speaker right?

Originally Posted by asere

The mic has to be tilted enough to point right at the speaker right?

Originally Posted by geodon005

As per Chris's reply, I tilted my mic a couple of degrees back (as in AWAY) from the speaker.

Originally Posted by pepar

If I had ceiling speakers, I would try re-orienting the mic for them ... "try" ... and do some listening. You will either hear a degradation, no change or an improvement. For the first two, I would abandon the adjustments while the latter would cause me to incorporate it into my routine. I wouldn't tell Feri though.

Jeff

Originally Posted by mogorf


Hi geodon, belive it or not, but just a couple of degrees really doesn't count much.

Here's an example of the calibration sheet of a Behringer ECM-8000 microphone. Many use it with REW.

As you can see:

1. The difference in FR can only be seen at around and above 10-12 kHz, the rest of the band is identically flat.

2. The spec sheet shows the difference between 0 degree and 90 degree angles of incidence, so a difference of just a couple of degrees tilting IMHO would not only not make an audible difference, but even measurements would not reveal them.

BTW, if I still remember well, asere is having issues in the bass department with his ceiling speakers that he is trying to fix through the attic!!

Originally Posted by mogorf

Grazing Police is watching!

Originally Posted by mogorf

Grazing Police is watching!

Originally Posted by asere

I just reran audyssey and got 120 for left, right, 90 for the surrounds and 80 for center. Are the numbers really bad?

Originally Posted by AustinJerry

Assuming you have a sub to handle the low frequencies, your results are probably as good as you are going to get without significant modifications to your ceiling-mounted front speakers. I think you should spend some time listening to your system and assessing whether it sounds good to you. If yes, then no need to worry. If no, try and categorize what you are not pleased with, and report back to this forum for additional advice.

Originally Posted by AustinJerry

Assuming you have a sub to handle the low frequencies, your results are probably as good as you are going to get without significant modifications to your ceiling-mounted front speakers. I think you should spend some time listening to your system and assessing whether it sounds good to you. If yes, then no need to worry. If no, try and categorize what you are not pleased with, and report back to this forum for additional advice.

Originally Posted by asere

I just reran audyssey and got 120 for left, right, 90 for the surrounds and 80 for center. Are the numbers really bad?

Originally Posted by wingnut4772

Ok. I'm gonna skip the SMS1 and see how I like the straight XT32. I have 4 subs. Which two subs should be on the 'Sub 1' output and which two should be on the 'Sub 2'? The rear two subs are closer to the seating area. Here's a pic.

My thought is to put the front subs on Sub 1 and the rears on Sub 2. Does that sound right?

Originally Posted by AustinJerry


My installation is somewhat similar, with two subs up front like yours, but only one sub in the back. Since Audyssey sets the distances for the sub's, I have always thought that if two subs are combined on one sub out connection, they should be equidistant. Looking at your picture, it looks like the two front subs might be the same distance to the MLP, and the two rears equidistant as well. I would try the two fronts on one sub out, and the two rears on the other, as you suggest.

One the calibration has completed, and if you have measuring software like REW or OmniMic, you could experiment with adjusting the sub distances to achieve the flattest response at the crossover point. Several of us have reported smoother bass response by using this technique.

Nice setup, by the way!

Originally Posted by wingnut4772


Thanks. I will try that. They aren't perfectly equidistant but probably close enough.

Originally Posted by EndersShadow


Should sound nice! I am jealous of that setup for sure!