"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 1832

This is how I explained it to my lady friend.

There's a little man than lives in the AVR, and his job is to manage DEQ. All he knows is to look up reference level and apply the appropriate DEQ settings. But he's not too bright, all he knows really is how to check RL and then look up the tables for DEQ.

So, if you sneak in when he's snoozing and change RL, he doesn't know that, he just checks RL (now RLO) and applies the tables based on whatever RL is (now reduced by you.)

I certainly agree with that, JD.

Thanks for the info.
C weighting

I just got a Avr 1612 and am having trouble getting the sub adjusted right. I have a DIY sub (TC 12K) powered by a Behringer Ep2500. On my old non-Audyssey Sony I set the sub level to +10 and adjusted the volume with the gain on the amp. Its my understanding that you need to max the sub level out when going into a pro level amp. After running Audyssey the sub out level is +4 and I have hardly any output on the sub at my regular listening level (+/-75db) the amp lights are hardly even flickering. They light when they receive signal.

How am I supposed to adjust the two together?

Thanks,
Ryan

^^ In the past I have found that Audyssey cal set the sub lower than my desired level, so you can add some gain afterward. As in advancing the +4 trim to some higher value like +10. Would another 6 dB be good? How low is too low?

Agree. Nothing more to add on my side. Added enough, eh?

Then the horse is officially declared dead. Cause of death, flogging.

back from out of town, allow me to weigh in here... this statement by Keith is 100% correct:

as was Max's statement:


Feri's response to Max: "DEQ is inactive only with MV at 0 dB and RLO at 0 dB." is NOT correct. In that situation -- MV at -5dB with a 5dB RLO -- DEQ will be doing NOTHING, just as if MV was at 0dB and RLO was at the default 0. Obviously the overall program level will be 5dB softer, but Dyn EQ will be INACTIVE.

Somebody (can't remember who?) actually demonstrated this empirically by measuring the pre-outs with Dyn EQ active at different offset values. RLO just changes the reference level, which by extension changes the point at which DEQ is inactive.

however, on the other topic of 3 days ago (Dyn EQ adjusting not only based on MV setting, but also actively monitoring program loudness and making on-the-fly adjustments) Feri was 100% correct.

Dyn EQ does NOT simply make its adjustments based on MV setting. Chris corrected me on this years ago when I assumed the same thing that Jerry did in this statement:

That's wrong and Feri's explanation was correct. I'll see if I can dig up Chris' post correcting me....

I'm surprised that so many of you regulars (Keith, Max, etc) forget this, as there was a HUGE discussion about this between Chris and Markus back in the day with Chris trying to demonstrate to Markus why it was necessary to constantly be adjusting the loudness contour based on program content, whereas Markus couldn't be convinced that you needed to do anything other than use a single contour based on MV setting. Do we not remember the good old days of trying to measure the vertical separation between equal loudness contours?

hmm, what happened to the "Advanced Search" feature in the "Search this Thread" thingy? I want to search for posts in this thread by Chris...

For me when I mouse over the magnifying glass next to the search window there is a drop down for advanced search.

hmm, not getting that. Maybe it's because I am using Chrome as my browser?

anyway, I found the argument about Dyn EQ and here's a good post from Chris: http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/29970#post_19094495

 

 

I didn't think I'd forgotten it, Baptpig ;)  That post of mine that I requoted above is a correct interpretation of how DEQ works, isn’t it? 

not trying to single you out but, in catching up on this thread after being gone a few days, I was surprised that Feri encountered so much resistance to his accurate statements, when this exact topic has been hashed out before and many of us were there when it happened. The key distinction is that Dyn EQ is NOT just operating based on the MV setting, it is actively monitoring program content in real time and will make different freq response adjustments based upon the actual loudness in the content.

 

I don't think we meant any disrespect to Feri.  The quotes you cited have cleared up my misunderstanding of the complex DEQ technology, for which I am grateful. 

 

Regarding your question on Advanced Search, I have been trying to figure out how to search this thread for postings by userid=Audyssey, and I can't seem to figure it out either.  There is an "Advanced Search" capability if you go to the "Search AVS Forum" box in the upper right corner, but its capabilities seem limited.  Hopefully, someone has the answer.  I posted a question in the Forum Operations Center to see if they can help.

Semantics? Isn't the operation of DEQ mainly based on the position of the MV which, for cinema anyway, informs DEQ about the relationship of the room's SPL to that of Reference Level? Have we ever been told what amount of "frequency response adjustments" are due to content and if any of them are independent of the MV position?

Semantics? Possibly. What links are there that would illuminate this a bit more?

Jeff

Jerry, I didn't read any disrespect ... just disagreement!

I definitely hope someone can clue me in on the "Advanced Search" functionality. I tried with Firefox and still couldn't get the dropdown when I moused over the magnifying glass. I really miss the ability to be in the Audyssey thread and be able to quickly search for posts by a specific userid, it's really helpful to be able to find Chris' exact words on topics like this.

Plus looking at those old messages makes me miss the old days when Chris, Markus, and Larry were regulars here...

I don't think it's semantics at all. It's a very clear distinction -- either Dynamic EQ's adjustment is based ONLY on the MV setting, or it isn't. And the correct answer is the latter. MV is part of it, but then DEQ is additionally monitoring actual loudness of the program content and modifying its adjustment so that different compensation is applied to soft parts vs. loud parts.

Yes, of course. Plus [sheepish grin] I just re-read Chris' posts.

Roger,

The document mentioned is one I put together (hosted in the Audyssey Setup Guide post) with some key posts from a discussion in March, 2011 that you participated in. The ITU diagram is indeed the one you posted above. It was such good information, I wanted to consolidate it for future use.

Mark

Edit: Attached the document for convenient reference.

Audyssey DSX Surround Speaker Placement Theory.doc 243k .doc file
Edited by giomania - 7/2/12 at 1:04pm

I think the resistance was to the inaccurate statements - such as the assertion that DEQ has zero effect only when the MV is at 0dB and RLO is off.

And now Guys I think we can get back to the original question that sparked this lengthy discussion with the hope that everything is fully clear for all.

So, here's the original question: does anyone know of any other loudness control solution on the market that monitors the MV as well as contents at the same time?

Upper right corner., then select Posts Only

Yeah, not the same as "search this thread." If you click there and then "advanced" you still don't have a way of searching the specific thread - just the category, e.g. AMPs, Receivers, and Processors.

OMG, I just noticed that "search this thread" is at the bottom of the page. In fine print.

Pretty useful for who matters most though. Chris tended to post only here.
Edited by Gary J - 7/2/12 at 1:32pm

ahh... there's the mouse over for Advanced Search. Thanks. Definitely would be nice to restrict it to a specific thread but in the case of posts by Chris K. it's sufficient.

just because it hurts me so bad to not get the last word when I think there are still wrongs to be righted... but that is not accurate based on what I read this morning. You have conflated two separate discussions, the first of which was DEFINITELY people disagreeing with Feri about the specific point of the "two part" adjustments of Dyn EQ (where Feri was 100% right), and then there was second, separate discussion about the relationship of MV and RLO (in which Feri was wrong about DEQ having zero effect ONLY when MV and RLO are both at 0).

anyway, I'm over it now you can go back and re-read the discussion and it's pretty clear

exactly