"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 1899

Quote:

Originally Posted by mantaraydesign 

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbarnes701 

The FAQ may help:

f)5.   Since I ran Audyssey everything sounds great - but where has my bass gone?


e)1.   Is it OK to change the trim levels Audyssey sets?


Are you using Dynamic EQ?  This will 'restore' your bass at low listening levels. What are your typical listening levels?

g)2.   What is Dynamic EQ?

Thanks for the great information!

Where do I find the Dynamic EQ within my AVR?

I listen to mid volume level and I also listen to extremely loud or reference level for movies and music.

Dynamic EQ is in the Audyssey section of your menu, and (in Onkyos at least) is source dependent.  What AVR do you have?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mastermaybe 


Just FYI, Jerry and All: I NEVER get a "re-chirp".
James

Yes, I understand.  Keith and I are just trying to understand the re-chirp behavior better so that we can update the FAQ.  If you are getting a louder chirp on the first 10-chirp sequence, then I would suspect something is wrong with the center channel signal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinJerry 

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbarnes701 

 

They do don't they?  Someone just recently posted an image of them and asked if he could use them to help get his setup right. They are very 'chunky' and seem of limited use to me.

 

Max wrote : "The Denon avrs do show a very rough graph of the before, and predicted post-Audyssey graphs"

 

Here is the EQ graph from the Denon.  There is no "before" and "after" representation.

 

 

Here is the Pro certificate, which we are very familiar with, which clearly shows a "before" and a derived "after" representation.

 

 

I don't thin the Denon EQ graphs would be much help in determining proper speaker placement, BICBW.

Thanks, Jerry. The Denon graph you show above is the one I was thinking of. What does it show - the 'after' predicted response, post-cal?

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinJerry 

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbarnes701 

Hmm. Interesting.... so what do you think causes it to re-chirp? Just the extra distance?

 

Don't know, Keith.  It's time to get serious.  I have submitted the folllowing query to Ask Audyssy--let's wait for the respoonse.  If I find out I have been using a defective Pro mic for the last year, I'm not going to be a happy camper....

 

"A recent discussion on the AVS Audyssey thread has me confused with regards to the Audyssey chirps.  When I calibrate my system (a full 11.1 configuration) using Audyssey Pro, the software will "re-chirp" several speakers.  By "re-chirp", I mean it will run the first 10-chirp sequence, pause for a few seconds, and then run the 10-chirp sequence again at a louder volume.  This happens for several of the speakers, specifically the DSX Wide speakers, which are smaller and further away than the rest of the speakers.  Several posters on AVR are under the impression that a re-chirp indicates that the ambient noise level is too high.  I claim that the re-chirp is perfectly normal behavior, since my listening area is always dead quiet when I run a calibration.  Please clear up this confusion, thanks!"

It will certainly be interesting to read the reply. I control ambient noise carefully too and have never had any rechirping, even when using speakers of quite different sensitivities.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbarnes701 

 

Thanks, Jerry. The Denon graph you show above is the one I was thinking of. What does it show - the 'after' predicted response, post-cal?

The Denon graph is called the "EQ" graph, and shows what the EQ settings are post-calibration.  The general consensus is that it has little or no value, other than to indicate if something is grossly wrong.  For example, several months ago, someone posted an EQ graph that showed the Denon was applying a flat-line max equalization to a speaker from 10K-20K Hz.  IIRC, this led to the discovery of either a defective mic or a bad tweeter.  The EQ graphs do not provide any guidance for pre-calibration speaker placement, IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbarnes701 

 

It will certainly be interesting to read the reply. I control ambient noise carefully too and have never had any rechirping, even when using speakers of quite different sensitivities.

Interesting.  Now I'm expecting the worst.   :eek:

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbarnes701 

 

It will certainly be interesting to read the reply. I control ambient noise carefully too and have never had any rechirping, even when using speakers of quite different sensitivities.

Asked and answered:

Chris Kyriakakis, Oct 08 07:54 am (PDT):

Hi Jerry,
A re-chirp means that the data collected for that speaker did not have sufficient signal to noise ratio (SNR). The SNR could be low either because the noise is high or the signal is low. In your room it sounds like the latter.
In any case, it makes no difference. The re-chirp increases the SNR and the data collected is fine. There is no "problem" to fix--that's why we designed the chirping process this way.

Best regards,
Chris Kyriakakis
Founder and CTO, Audyssey

My reply:

AustinJerry, Oct 08 08:18 am (PDT):

Hi Chris,

Thanks for you quick reply. My sigh of relief raised the ambient noise level in my listening room a few dB!

Regards,
Jerry

@Keith:  Perhaps a FAQ update would be appropriate?

Quote:

Originally Posted by KK in CT 


Yes, thanks Jerry for submitting the question to Audyssey. I have also experienced "re-chirps" on height speakers, with no noticeable (at least to me) change in ambient noise levels. Perhaps it's due to the height of the speakers compared to the rest relative to the height of the mic?

Thanks for confirming.  As per Chris' response, nothing to worry about.  I suspect room treatments might play a role, as well as distance, speaker placement, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinJerry 

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbarnes701 

 

It will certainly be interesting to read the reply. I control ambient noise carefully too and have never had any rechirping, even when using speakers of quite different sensitivities.

 

Asked and answered:

 

Chris Kyriakakis, Oct 08 07:54 am (PDT):

 

Hi Jerry,
A re-chirp means that the data collected for that speaker did not have sufficient signal to noise ratio (SNR). The SNR could be low either because the noise is high or the signal is low. In your room it sounds like the latter.
In any case, it makes no difference. The re-chirp increases the SNR and the data collected is fine. There is no "problem" to fix--that's why we designed the chirping process this way.

 

Best regards,
Chris Kyriakakis
Founder and CTO, Audyssey

 

My reply:

 

AustinJerry, Oct 08 08:18 am (PDT):

 

Hi Chris,

Thanks for you quick reply. My sigh of relief raised the ambient noise level in my listening room a few dB!

 

Regards,
Jerry

 

 

@Keith:  Perhaps a FAQ update would be appropriate?

Will do.... thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selden Ball 

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbarnes701 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selden Ball 

Whether or not a setting of -12db is actually indicating a "pegged" condition on that channel (it usually does), Audyssey's corrections will have the most headroom if the setting is closer to 0db.

That's interesting, Selden. I have not come across this before - would you care to elaborate please?

I've seen this claim in various posts hers on AVS, unless I've been misreading them. After all, with the offset at 0, it's at least 12dB away from both limits, numerically. A quick web search doesn't seem to find any official statement to that effect, though.

I don't see why it matters, so long as you don't 'hit the stops' and have a maximum reading such as -12dB or +12dB. AFAIK Audyssey works exactly the same if the trim is set to -11dB as it does if it is set to 0dB. The caveat is that if the trim is maxed out then there may be a problem because Audyssey may have wanted to go even further if it had been allowed to. Other than that, it doesn't seem to matter. Anyone else have any thoughts on it?

FAQ Update!

New question added following Jerry's Ask Audyssey reply:

b)9.   Why is Audyssey 're-chirping' and raising the level of the test tones, even though my ambient noise is very low?

I decided to add this as an additional question rather than wedge it in under the existing 'ambient noise' question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdsmoothie 

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbarnes701 

I don't see why it matters, so long as you don't 'hit the stops' and have a maximum reading such as -12dB or +12dB. AFAIK Audyssey works exactly the same if the trim is set to -11dB as it does if it is set to 0dB. The caveat is that if the trim is maxed out then there may be a problem because Audyssey may have wanted to go even further if it had been allowed to. Other than that, it doesn't seem to matter. Anyone else have any thoughts on it?

+1

A setting closer to 0db simply allows for larger additional volume changes either up or down, although for the sub, when set closer to 0db provides for a stronger signal sometimes needed to kick the sub on when set to AUTO mode.

Agreed. The actual Audyssey calibration is not affected or influenced by the trim setting - that's what I was trying to get across. WRT to the subs, I always run the gain on the subs a little higher than necessary so that I get a lower trim. I believe this gives my sub a nice clean input signal and also gives me room to raise the trim if I want to run the subs a little hot (which I don't these days since learning the 'sub distance adjustment tweak'). 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selden Ball 

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdsmoothie 

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbarnes701 

I don't see why it matters, so long as you don't 'hit the stops' and have a maximum reading such as -12dB or +12dB. AFAIK Audyssey works exactly the same if the trim is set to -11dB as it does if it is set to 0dB. The caveat is that if the trim is maxed out then there may be a problem because Audyssey may have wanted to go even further if it had been allowed to. Other than that, it doesn't seem to matter. Anyone else have any thoughts on it?

+1

A setting closer to 0db simply allows for larger additional volume changes either up or down, although for the sub, when set closer to 0db provides for a stronger signal sometimes needed to kick the sub on when set to AUTO mode.

Your description is equivalent to what I meant when I used the term "more headroom".

Phew!  We all got there in the end! 

Quote:

Originally Posted by nosferatu2xlc 

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbarnes701 

If you are using a sub you don't need to have your main speakers set to 'Large' regardless of their physical size. 'Large' means 'send nothing to the sub' in this context. 'Small', or setting a XO, means 'use bass management and my sub.

Dynamic EQ will boost the bass at low listening levels. What level are you listening at?

You should not find that Audyssey creates a 'bright' sound. Some people who have recently experienced this have discovered they have a defective mic. Which mic does the NAD use and when was it shipped?

You may find the following FAQ answers give useful background and more in-depth information:

a)9.   Why are my high frequencies 'bright' or 'harsh' since running Audyssey? 


c)3.   I have big tower speakers at the front. Shouldn't I set these to Large'?


c)4.   Is it OK to change the Crossovers from Audyssey's recommendation?


g)2.   What is Dynamic EQ?

i have read it, and maybe its my Vienna speakers that are toe in toward the main sitting area ( i will try to set straight and see ) or i have issue with a mic. The result of my audyssey is bright and slightly echo like sound especially from center channel.

Please report back if toeing in the speakers makes a difference for you. It is possible you might have a defective mic - there have been several reports of defective mics in the recent past - usually the latest black AC1MHB versions shipped during the hot summer. A new mic is only about $20 and may be a good investment to put your mind at rest - Audyssey should definitely niot make the system sound 'bright'.