"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 1914

^^^

since you have no interest in audyssey, please move on to another thread...

 

I won't ask.... ;)

Again not true, I have interest in Audyssey, this is why I am here. This is just confuse me when you refer to non-existent suggestions to something I was not even asked. Or do you suggest to solve any problem with Audyssey? Sorry, I've tried - it doesn't work and make things worse in my case. Do you have any suggestion on how to make Audyssey not to distort high frequencies in my case? This would make my problem with room treatments not so urgent

Yeh .. rumor has it those NJ gals can be quite rough around the edges.

Speaking of which ... you going into withdrawals yet roughing it without XT32?

My Focal Stella Utopia front speakers are spec'ed to 22 Hz. They also have their own electromagnet powering their 13" woofers all the way up to 220 Hz. For music, I have carefully listened and to my ears, they sound at least as good "full-range" as "small" with a 40 Hz crossover. The fronts are driven by Emotiva XPA-1 monoblocks which can handle 1000 watts at 4 ohms so they don't really lack juice. Even Audyssey Pro agrees because during calibration, it recommends a "full-range" setting. Therefore, for music, I run the fronts "full-range" because otherwise, I would have wasted my investment in my fronts and amps.

For movies, however, I always run them as "small" and send the bass to 4 x SVS PB-13 Ultras and 2 x Paradigm Servo-15's.

This is also why during an Audyssey Pro calibration, I select the 40 Hz crossover but then shift to full-range when listening to music. The way Audyssey Pro works, this doesn't seem to have a detrimental effect.

Mark

lol...

a bit of withdrawal... the 4520 will be here friday, though.. i'll be able to satisfy my wonk/nerd jones over the weekend...

When I set my Dynamic Volume to "Heavy", I find that my audio signal will cut out momentarily. The volume drops to zero then quickly rebuilds to whatever it was at before. This happens at all levels of Dynamic Volume, for a variety of input sources on my receiver. This does not happen when I turn off Dynamic Volume. Any thoughts? I am quite perplexed.

 

Take a look at the FAQ section that covers this and see if it helps...

 

g)3.   What is Reference Level Offset in Dynamic EQ?

 

If you are confident that your measurement techniques are good, and if you have read and followed all the advice in the Setup Guide and FAQ and 101, then maybe Audyssey is not for you and you need to experiment with treatments and possibly other methods of electronic room EQ. Good luck.

 

Please read the advice that is available here - specifically the Setup Guide and the FAQ. Maybe this FAQ answer can help you with this specific aspect of your query:

 

a)9.   Why are my high frequencies 'bright' or 'harsh' since running Audyssey? 

 

Yes, music can be a different ballgame I agree. I don't use my HT for (serious) music listening and I always forget that so many members here do use their systems for both music and movies. I ought to perhaps add a comment in my sig along the lines "Anything I comment on refers to *movie* use of the system *only* :)  I have a separate music system in a different room and the speakers there can manage about 40Hz with some help from the room, and I find that is plenty for my music listening - but it would be absolutely, totally inadequate for my movies.

Nothing to worry about... when Dyn Vol is activated it drops the volume and then as you say "builds" back up over the course of a few seconds. Because Dyn Vol works by "looking ahead" at a buffer to evaluate changes in program loudness, I think it's a way to avoid a sudden spike in volume and give the processing time to "ease in" to what it determines to be the best average level based on its analysis of the content.

So, in other words, normal behavior. And really, why does it matter? It only lasts a few seconds when it first turns on and then it's done going forward. Once you have Dyn Vol activated to the level you desire, you just leave it there.

it must be the same thing as when you're watching a movie or listening to music and you change decoder.

normal behavior.

I have read and followed everything there, including toeing the speakers, and trying different mic (thanks to Valiheli shop here for kindly providing the mic for test). Measured and compared both mics response. Compared what Audyssey did - in Movie mode it is quite similar to the uncorrected curve for high frequencies, but high sound really harsh, moreover distorted which is obvious on the clean bells sound - turning Audyssey on/off makes so drastic change in the clarity of bells (while no significant change in level) so there is no doubts Audyssey distorts them after calibration. It is not something in the area of personal preference, it is the completely clear tone vs. heavily vibrating and dirty one. If you newer heard this I can understand why you think it is because others do something wrong, but believe me, it is a real distortion. I am just sharing my conditions and at this point I believe it is the flutter-echo that confuses Audyssey and makes it sound harsh. Other people who have harsh highs could also check their room conditions, may be we can find some similarity and finally find the reason and so the way to fix it. Currently it seems that people that have this problem are simply ignored or blamed for wrong calibrating technique, while it is clearly not calibrating technique in many cases (surely still valid for some).

I really like how Audyssey works for bass and mids, and simply used to this already and cannot listen without it, but this distorted highs problem kills all enjoyment from the music

Igor,

Can you provide the name of a musical source (CD, BD, downloaded file or whatever), which includes such bells?

I love you room +10. I will try that as well I am surprised about Emotiva amps with Focal Stella Utopia ? Why not McIntosh, Classe, Mark Levinson?

Ok since you are the Audyssey master what do you think of this basically saying Audyssey is crap! http://realtraps.com/art_audyssey.htm

And then they tell me this!

"That looks typical for a home-sized room, particularly the jagged frequency response under 100Hz. I'm sure you'd get much better results by bypassing whatever EQ or "calibration" the THX guy added, and using quality bass trapping in as many corners as possible. For more detail about why we generally don't recommend room EQ or "correction" software, see: http://realtraps.com/art_audyssey.htm


Broadly speaking there are 2 steps to start with in formulating your treatment strategy:
- First is to add as many bass traps to as many corners of the room (including wall/ceiling corners) as possible. This step will flatten out the overall frequency response of the room, making everything sound better.
- Second step is to create a Reflection-Free Zone at the listening position, as explained here: http://realtraps.com/rfz.htm This step will dramatically increase the overall clarity of your system, and the depth and detail of your stereo image and soundstage.

I'd suggest taking a look at some of our room kits to get some basic packages that give you enough traps to do both these steps. For a room your size, the Standard Room Kit ($1899.99 plus shipping) should be seen as a minimum full-room treatment package, and is definitely enough treatment to make an obvious improvement in just about any room.

The Mondo Room Kit ($2299.99 plus shipping) would be even better. If these kits are out of budget, then even our Starter Kit ($1199.99 plus shipping) will make enough improvement to show that you are on the right track, and can be expanded down the road if even better results are desired.

At the higher-end of the spectrum, you can achieve world-class sound using our Modular Kit approach outlined in this video: http://www.realtraps.com/video_hearing.htm This strategy would probably be between $10k and $15k for a room your size.

You can find our room kits here: http://realtraps.com/p_roomkits.htm"

It sounds to me like all they are saying is buy $15K of bass traps from us and your room will sound great, unlivable but great

I think in a perfect world, if you can spend $$$$$ to make your room acoustically perfect, then of course you don't need electronic room correction. But I think it's obvious they have a financial incentive to promote that strategy

Also, if you read that article they set up somewhat of a "false choice" about Room EQ vs. acoustic treatments. These are not mutually exclusive approaches and everyone on this thread will always encourage people to create the best acoustic situation possible BEFORE applying electronic room correction. The better the starting point, the better the results.

It's also worth noting that (1) they admitted that they found MultEQ improved the sound and (2) the article refers to a much older version of MultEQ.

 

I think someone selling traps is going to say traps are what you need ;)  The reality is this: the room is the most important component in your system and the one that has the most impact on the sound you hear, so it is always going to be worthwhile to get the room right. Treatments and traps are ideal for this because they will improve the response of the entire room, whereas electronic EQ tends to improve the response for a given area only. Also, traps are the only way to deal with room nulls. Electronic EQ won't really help there.

 

So the prioritisation is this: measure the room/speakers and discover where the problems are. Install treatments and traps as required, within the limitations of budget and WAF. Make sure the speakers and the sub(s) are in their optimum places wrt to the MLP. Then run your electronic EQ, such as Audyssey. If the latter is XT32, then you will now have an absolutely terrific sounding room.

 

Many people are forced to compromise some of these areas mentioned. Only you can decide which compromises to make in your own room. Some people run just Audyssey alone and are very happy - it will certainly be potentially better for most people than no EQ at all. Others are able to treat their rooms 100%  with treatments and traps and so have far less need of Audyssey. Many use both.

 

FWIW, I have relied solely on Audyssey (Pro) for some time (although my room has plenty of 'natural' treatments like heavy drapes, thick carpeting, big theatre chairs in upholstered material (not leather) and it sounds remarkably good. But this weekend I will be installing the traps etc that will be delivered during the week and I expect the sound quality to audibly improve. 

 

Bottom line: only you can decide where the compromises will fall, how much budget you have and how much you can do without alienating the rest of your family. This thread is primarily about Audyssey so you'd expect most of the posts to be on that topic and not on the topic of room treatments - but equally most of the experienced people here will appreciate the benefits of treatments too.

 

BTW, I'm not the "Audyssey Master" (but thanks for the compliment) - just a regular Audyssey user who has learned everything I know thanks to this thread and the help of the guys who hang out here.  The FAQ I compiled is just the distillation of all that into one central location.

 

There is something clearly wrong. I am not sure what it might be. I assume it is not the source that is clipping. It could be a faulty Audyssey mic, a faulty speaker or any number of things. You are not being ignored or blamed for poor calibration techniques, but unfortunately it is not always easy to diagnose problems at a distance. Audyssey cannot, when working normally, create the circumstances you describe (highlighted by me in red above) so this tends to make me think that something else is the problem, but I admit I have no idea what it might be - sorry.

 

EDIT: Selden makes a good suggestion - can you point us to the source for the bells - maybe we can hear for ourselves what they sound like.

Because they will make absolutely no difference to the sound quality?

Very interesting, did you try? Also I see you are in the UK so why not B&W 800Diamonds?

Thank you for your response, I agree the room is key, but it just bugs me that they are pushing so hard on their "Bass traps". I could just build my own for probably a 10th of the cost. Do you have any good link as to building bass traps. Also why in the corners I thought I could just take 12 inches of Corning board stack them together that would be as effective? Then apply Audyssey

my research suggests that absorption is fully effective down to one quarter wavelength. So a foot of fiberglass can be expected to completely (or nearly so) abosrb down to about 280 Hz, for the sound that strikes the absorber It won't do much in the deeper bass.

Your research? Published papers!

So what do I need for Bass?

i did but it says nothing about XBOX 360, what should i set the reference level for the xbox 360 source? or should i leave it at 0? and should i defintley change the reference level from 0 to 10 for my cable tv source? what is changing it from 0 to 10 going to benefit me?

 

I did have a Mark Levinson once in the days when I knew so little that I believed that modern amplifiers working within their design parameters actually made a difference to the sound quality. Now I have Emotivas and have spent the cash I have saved on thing that actually make a difference. The B&W Diamonds are terrific speakers but I prefer my MK S150s.

I'm not surprised that people selling bass traps 'push hard' for bass traps really :)  It's possible to build your own but you need to understand the physics - it's not, AFAIK, as simple as taking some thick stuff and slapping it all over the room. I'd imagine there is a thread for it on AVS - DIY Room Treatments or similar?

Ah right, sorry. Games, like music, are not mixed to any industry standard (unlike movies) so there is no 'reference level' for games. So all you can do is experiment with the RLO that gives you the best result. Similar with TV - again no reference standard so all you can do is experiment. Start with 5, listen and evaluate and then try 10 or even 15 and see which gives the best sound to your ears. Changing from 0 to 10 will shift the point at which Dynamic EQ ceases to have any effect. This is usually (for movies) reference level or 0dB. If you set RLO of 10, then DEQ ceases to have an effect at -10dB instead of 0dB. There are no right and wrong settings for DEQ for music, games or TV - all you can do is experiment and go with what sounds best to you in your room, at your listening levels, with your source material.

http://forum.studiotips.com/

Specifically, here. SuperChunks are what I have made/installed and documented here.