"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 1922

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinJerry 

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbarnes701 

Audyssey and tweakery next....

Please don't be bashful about reporting the results, Keith.

Moi?  Bashful?  :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jima4a 

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbarnes701 

Hmm. Thanks for that Craig. I may well do my new calibration something similar to your diagram. I was using a similar pattern to your 'before' diagram, but over just two seats. For my new test I will still do some mic positions 'out in the room' so to speak, but will focus the bulk around the MLP as you suggest.

BTW, I have two *very* big boxes sitting in my hallway with the tops open.  The contents of the boxes are currently sitting in my HT room, allowing the electronics inside to come up to room temperature before installation and switch on. I'm not saying what is in the boxes out of consideration for Jerry  But the new line appended to my sig may give a clue LOL! I will report back in the appropriate thread when all is set up, calibrated and tweaked.

Congrats on getting your subs through customs! Would like to hear your impressions once you have time with them.

When I first ran XT on my TX-NR1008 I had imaging issues in my MLP by adding my second seating position so I learned to focus my measurements symmetrically around the MLP.

Thanks!  I will indeed post my impressions, but in the Submersive thread ;)

Yes, I have used symetrical around-the-MLP for some time and been happy with the results. I am going to try a broader spread in line with that TH interview - I have an open mind on which is best - maybe neither is - might depend on all manner of factors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by theater_lover 

I'm looking for some help on how best to layout up my DSX system.

There are limited speaker placement options, but I have three positions to place three different pairs of speakers.

In the attached image, I have overlaid the ideal DSX angles on top of my room (which is roughly 18' x 18' with a 12' ceiling).
The positions, nor furniture can be moved (due to windows, walkways, theater screen, livability, etc).

You can see positions 1,2 and 3 in red text. The blue text is labels for each ideal channel. LW = Left Wide, RSS = Right Side Surround. You get the idea.

Pos 3 is for heights.
Pos 2 is for either WIDES, or SIDE SURROUNDS.
Pos 1 is for either SIDE SURROUNDS, or REAR SURROUNDS.

The three pairs of speakers I can place in these positions are...

1) Monopole direct bookshelf speakers. (CAOW1)
2) Dipole surround/effect speakers. (Swan R3)
3) Omni-directional Satellites (Mirage OMD-5).

The two good options I see are...

Pos 1) Direct Heights
Pos 2) Dipole Side Surround (Although not ideal as they are in front of the listening position, but it may work in combo with the rears)
Pos 3) Omni-directional rear surround.

OR...

Pos 1) Omni-directional heights.
Pos 2) Direct Wides (although not ideal as they are too close to the listening position)
Pos 3) Dipole Side Surrounds

Thanks!
 

I had a very late night last night, so this might just be me, but I can't follow your numbering scheme above. You have, for example. marked Pos 3 as being for the Heights, but then you say that one of the good options is to put Direct radiating Height speakers at Pos 1. If you can clarify that, I am happy to give you my thoughts on it, and my experience with bipole Heights vs monopoles and monopole surrounds vs dipoles/tripoles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by theater_lover 

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbarnes701 

I had a very late night last night, so this might just be me, but I can't follow your numbering scheme above. You have, for example. marked Pos 3 as being for the Heights, but then you say that one of the good options is to put Direct radiating Height speakers at Pos 1. If you can clarify that, I am happy to give you my thoughts on it, and my experience with bipole Heights vs monopoles and monopole surrounds vs dipoles/tripoles.

That would be because I reversed the numbering. All fixed now.

:)  OK - it's past midnight here now and I have been in the company of my oldest friend all day and much wine has been consumed. I'll give my thoughts, for what they are worth, tomorrow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by theater_lover 

I'm looking for some help on how best to layout up my DSX system.

There are limited speaker placement options, but I have three positions to place three different pairs of speakers.

In the attached image, I have overlaid the ideal DSX angles on top of my room (which is roughly 18' x 18' with a 12' ceiling).
The positions, nor furniture can be moved (due to windows, walkways, theater screen, livability, etc).

You can see positions 1,2 and 3 in red text. The blue text is labels for each ideal channel. LW = Left Wide, RSS = Right Side Surround. You get the idea.

Pos 3 is for heights.
Pos 2 is for either WIDES, or SIDE SURROUNDS.
Pos 1 is for either SIDE SURROUNDS, or REAR SURROUNDS.

The three pairs of speakers I can place in these positions are...

A) Monopole direct bookshelf speakers. (CAOW1)
B) Dipole surround/effect speakers. (Swan R3)
C) Omni-directional Satellites (Mirage OMD-5).

The two good options I see are...

Pos 3) Direct Heights
Pos 2) Dipole Side Surround (Although not ideal as they are in front of the listening position, but it may work in combo with the rears)
Pos 1) Omni-directional rear surround.

OR...

Pos 3) Omni-directional heights.
Pos 2) Direct Wides (although not ideal as they are too close to the listening position)
Pos 1) Dipole Side Surrounds

Thanks!

Thanks for clarifying the numbers earlier.

FWIW, this is my personal take on it, based on my experience with Height channels and dipole/bipole speakers. At one stage in the development of my HT, I was not using monopoles for my height speakers because the manufacturer of my main speakers did not make a suitable (smallish) monopole for the height channels and I am of the belief that the voicing of speakers is important in creating the overall sound field in a convincing way. Consequently I used dipoles, set to the bipole mode, for my height speakers. I asked Audyssey specifically what their views were on this because they recommend direct radiators for height speakers. Chris replied that they had not evaluated dipole/bipole speakers for height channel use but thought they would "probably be OK". I used the bipoles for some time and was always satisfied with the sound, as they were a) voiced the same as my mains and b) the height 'effects' are fairly diffuse in nature anyway. Later, I changed my speakers and the manufacturer of my new speakers did indeed have a suitable direct radiator for the height channels and so this is what I currently use. I cannot say with any degree of certainty that one was better than the other - both give a useful, pleasing effect. As a result, I believe that you could use either type of speaker for height duty and be happy with the result. I cannot say the same for omnidirectional speakers as I have no experience with omnis at all.

I would say that in your room, you are unable to achieve even an approximation of Audyssey's recommended locations for the height channels, so you might prefer (as I do) to use Dolby PLIIz for your height channels, as Dolby's placement recommendations are far les stringent than Audyssey's. My height speakers are up close to the ceiling and a little outboard of my mains. Remember, it is OK to mount height speakers on the ceiling if this brings them more into line with Audyssey's recommendations, but such an arrangement has a very low WAF. PLIIz derives the height information from the surround channels whereas DSX derives it from the front L&R channels and this may be one of the reasons that the placement requirements for both differ. I also found that DSX messes with the surround channels in a way I did not like, whereas PLIIz does not - YMMV on that. Also remember that Height (and wide) speakers are not part of any recognised 'standard' so their use is going to be a matter of preference and there is no right and wrong at this time - nor will be until/unless content is specifically created for these channels. This means that, really, whatever sounds good to you IS good.

WRT to side surrounds, I have used monopoles, dipoles and (now) tripoles. Each iteration has resulted in, for me, a significant improvement in envelopment. Bear in mind that I use my HT ONLY for movies and do not do any (serious) music listening there. Some people say that for music, monopoles make the best choice for surround speakers. My own view is that dipoles/tripoles are much better for movies and provide that overall immersion in the sound field that is desired, without excessive localisation of the surround channels. The tripoles have the benefit of good localisation when the content specifically demands it, but give terrific ambiance and envelopment otherwise - the best of both worlds. My surrounds are placed at 90 degrees to the MLP, but there is some latitude with this and you can place them rearwards or even forwards of that position - in fact if I had rear surrounds I would probably move my surrounds forward a little to help create the 'bubble' more convincingly. I do not have rear surrounds because my MLP is unavoidably close to the back wall, as yours is, and I do not feel that I can position rear surrounds effectively as a result. I have toyed with rear surrounds in the ceiling above the listening positions, but not carried it through (yet) as I remain unconvinced of the efficacy of such a non-standard location. I would prefer no rear surrounds at all to rear surrunds that might mess with the 'bubble' I have worked hard to create. Again, YMMV. I would, ideally, move my current tripole surrounds to about 110%, placing them slightly behind me (in the absence of rear surrounds) but this would bring them closer to the back wall than I think is desirable. If my room was deeper, I would definitely try this and see what effect it had on overall envelopment, but then, if my room was deeper I'd have rear surrounds, so the point is circular really.

I have no direct experience with wides because my room cannot physically accommodate them, but I would say that it's important to remember that Audyssey's recommendation for positioning is just that - a recommendation. You might find that conventional direct radiating wide speakers would work well as wides if you placed them where you currently have LH/RH marked on your diagram (but obviously at ear level). If I was determined to try wides, this is where I would put them to test their efficacy.

I have no experience of omnidirectional speakers at all but personally I would avoid them on the grounds that I have never really seen them recommended for side surrounds over dipoles and for rear surrounds over direct radiators.

I don't know if the above has served to help or to confuse, sorry. But my comments are based on actual experience (except where stated) and in a small, difficult room similar, conceptually to yours, sharing many of the placement difficulties. If I had to come down hard with a recommendation, it would be monopoles for the heights, dipole/tripole for the surrounds, monopoles for the wides and monopoles or bipoles for the rear surrounds - but there is no right and wrong answer here and I am sure others will have different views. Some of it will be pure preference (as I have for dipole/tripole surrounds - albeit a preference that is supported by various 'standards' such as THX etc) so given that, the only way to be sure to get what YOU want is to try different things. Problem with that is that experience is a great teacher, but the lessons are very expensive ;)

If I can help any more (if I have helped at all!) then don't hesitate to follow up with more questions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuzed2 

Nah - come on now - one more glass of Vino.

:)  I did...

Quote:

Originally Posted by KnifeGuy 

Maybe a dumb question but...
I searched and think I've found my answer but just want to ask it in hopes of getting a definite answer

Will Audyssey work just as well when using an external amplifier to run some or all speakers?

For example:
Denon 4520, Parasound A 31 (or Parasound A 51) & Rythmik F15 in a 5.1 set up

Can I use the Denon 4520 to power the surround speakers and the Parasound A 31 to power the L R & C? OR Denon 4520 just as a pre/pro and power all speakers with a Parasound A 51?
Will there any detriment regarding Audyssey? Is there anything special or different I would need to do?

TIA

Yes, Audyssey works fine with external amps. Many of us in this thread, me included, run a prepro plus external amps or use the preouts on an AVR to run external amps. Audyssey doesn't care about the amps or where they 'live' and your calibration will be exactly the same as if you had a typical AVR with internal amplification.

You can use the Denon to power the surrounds and the Parasound for the main three channels - that is a good way to set up with the gear you have. Same if you use the Denon just as a prepro with 5 external amp channels.

I think it was a good question and perhaps ought to be in the FAQ too. I'll find somewhere to put it there.

this is also what i do in my 6.1 system (no center):

2 x 2 channel amps for the front and side speakers,

and 2 channels from the AVR for the back surrounds

it works 100%.

Happy Thanksgiving to all my American friends here on AVS!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theresa 

Yes, the day we give thanks for what we have, followed by the day we act like animals to get what we don't have.

Oooh, you cynic, you :)