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"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 1953

post #58561 of 62195
12/30/12 at 12:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_mike View Post

I created a correction using a Pre-Out connection on the AVR - with all processing disabled. So in theory the graphs should show the combined effects of processing(once re-enabled), power-amps, speakers, room, microphone(accounted for with mic cal file).
Regards, Mike.

Mike, how did you loop-back the pre-out connection on the AVR to the laptop? Pre-out is analog RCA. For a 5.1 system that means 6 analog RCA connectors. Or am I lost here? Care to expand? Thx.

One more Q. Can the loop-back be done with a single HDMI connection between laptop and AVR?
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #58562 of 62195
12/30/12 at 12:32pm
^^^

yes, this is intriguing, especially for those who had been on the fence because of the relatively (to an OM) complex hardware requirements. As I already have a preamp/phantom PS and a calibrated mic, I won't be switching that part of my configuration. But it would be good to know as much as possible to assist others. If I could see how HDMI connection from laptop to pre/pro would be better, I'd consider moving to that.
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post #58563 of 62195
12/30/12 at 3:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Mike, how did you loop-back the pre-out connection on the AVR to the laptop? Pre-out is analog RCA. For a 5.1 system that means 6 analog RCA connectors. Or am I lost here? Care to expand? Thx.
One more Q. Can the loop-back be done with a single HDMI connection between laptop and AVR?

The beta REW with ASIO support and a suitable driver such as ASIO4ALL allows you to select a single input channel such as the Centre channel, then you connect an RCA to 3.5mm lead between Centre Out (Pre-out) and feed that back to the laptops analogue input, acting as the loop back. Adjust the levels as appropriate and make the correction file.
If you want to check, just select another output channel and move the RCA as well, and check that the correction is still valid. Job done.

The actual sweep testing only requires the single HDMI, but the initial loop back requires the RCA lead.
Regards, Mike.
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post #58564 of 62195
12/31/12 at 2:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

All of a sudden, not quite so simple. And that is why i continue to use OmniMic. So it is $100 for the mic plus the price of the sound card plus making it work. While may still be cheaper than the $250 I paid for OmniMic, I was never able to get consistent results with REW. And while the ability to use the USB mic should simplify it some, total plug-n-play better fits with my impatient personality.

 

Yeah - more like $200 in fact. Looks like me and OmniMic will be seeing in the New Year together after all.

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post #58565 of 62195
12/31/12 at 2:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jevansoh View Post

Here's some more info for everyone.

While it is true that REW generates the signal internally, meaning you will have to hook your computer/laptop up to any available stereo input on your AVR, you will not need to use an external CD/DVD Player and CD/(DVD??) like you do with Omnimic/RTZ so that pretty much cancels each other out as far as I'm concerned.

There are no other "black boxes" needed. You will NOT need a full duplex sound card because you aren't using the sound card's mic input and speaker/line output at the same time, as you'll be using the USB Mic. So the built-in sound card that every PC/Laptop has works fine. (Using it this way myself on a cheap laptop)

Yes, the output/jack on the sound card is 1/8" stereo mini and Yes, the input on the AVR is RCA, but that is taken care of by a $3.00 1/8" to RCA Splitter/Y-Adapter that I bet most of you already have.

The Mic is USB and there are a few options, both of which are under $100 shipped and that should be all you need, unless you need to get the $3.00 adapter to go from 1/8" stereo plug to RCA Jack. You can actually get these at Monoprice for $1.00 or so! wink.gif

The first MIC Option, and the one I recommend, is the Dayton UMM-6 USB Mic calibrated individually, by a human being (who has his own very high quality/expensive calibration mic/rig and a lot of experience) at Cross Spectrum Labs.

Here's the link. http://cross-spectrum.com/measurement/calibrated_umm6.html

This Mic is only $90.00 and he charges $9.00 for shipping. He also ships Worldwide.

If you are a member of HTShack, which is where most of the support for REW is and where JohnAV, the writer/owner of REW hangs out, simply put your username in the notes when you order and he'll give you $10.00 off if you order before Jan 1st! After Jan 1st, he will still give you $5.00 off! smile.gif

I've found out a few more things I'd like to share. First, this mic is the same or very similar as what is offered with Omnimic and you can also purchase it directly from PartsExpress.

However, the Mic's that come with your Omnimic and this Dayton UMM-6 Mic, which you can also purchase directly from PartsExpress for about $5.00 less are NOT "truly" individually calibrated by a human, nor do they come with calibration files for 0, 45, and 90 degrees, polar responses, etc, which can come in very handy once you learn more about taking measurements and if you get serious about it and acoustics/improving your room.

The EMM-6 and a few others (old mic that a lot of people use which requires Pre-Amp/Phantom Power) also states it's calibrated and you simply go to the web-site, enter your serial number, then get a cal file however, when CSL compared their truly individually calibrated mics they found up to 5db difference!

So, please understand that the mics you think (because you were told so!) are calibrated really are not and do not match with true individual calibrations. Some are closer than others, but you won't know unless you get them calibrated.

CSL and PartsExpress both purchase these wholesale from Dayton and PE simply charges a few dollars less but doesn't do anything other than sell you the mic as it came from Dayton, however, CSL actually calibrates each mic individually at 0, 45, and 90 degrees, and does this all while charging about the same price!

There is another option, too. Mini-DSP just came out with a USB MIC but you purchase it directly from them. They ship from Hong Kong, but surprisingly, it only takes a few days and everyone over at HTShack has had a good experience so far. So since CSL doesn't get a good break on them wholesale, they don't offer them directly/individually calibrated aren't truly individually calibrated from Mini-DSP, but supposedly are very close. You could always purchase this MIC if it's your preference and send it in to CSL to have them calibrate it of course. I "think" that's around $50-$60 or so??

The latest version of REW, just posted last week, has a drop down menu selection where you can select the Mini-DSP mic (linked to a few posts back) and it's as simple as selecting the mic you're using and running measurements!

GIK Acoustics has a good video tutorial on their web-site on using REW and how to take a measurement to get started and of course there is lots of help on AVS and HTShack.

I helped AustinJerry awhile back in interpreting his results and making some recommendations and would be more than willing to help each and every one of you with anything you need from setting it up, which honestly couldn't be easier, to performing measurements, to helping you understand what they mean and what to do about them.

I love this stuff so much and spend several hours per day 7 days a week between AVS and Gearslutz which is where I have learned so much about acoustics and room treatment.

I have personally been able to get my dedicated theater within +/- 4db with NO Audyssey unsmoothed, and within +/-2 db with 1/3rd smoothing all the way from 20hz-20khz but have realized over the last year or so that frequency response is NOT at all, not even close, to being what is very important.... It's the modal decay times in the low frequencies and the ETC in the upper frequencies.

There's lots to learn, lots to explain, and I'm more than willing to help, but a lot of things simply cannot be done and understood with Omnimic/XTZ and now with Plug-N-Play USB MIC options available for under $100 and at the most another few bucks for an adapter most people already have, there truly isn't any reason I can see to use anything but REW. YMMV of course. wink.gif

--J

PS If anyone wants more specific links to RatShack/Monoprice on exactly which adapter to buy or any other info of any kind, feel free to ask here or PM.

 

A great post Jason - thanks. I may still be tempted (your argument is very seductive). What would I need as an external soundcard to connect to my prepro? Can you recommend one?  Is it OK to connect that to the front AUX connector on my prepro?  I would need a long lead as my hardware is in a closet outside the HT - what sort of lead would this be?  Thanks for you help.

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post #58566 of 62195
12/31/12 at 2:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jevansoh View Post

HDMI would also work fine. Then you wouldn't need an adapter or have to hook up any analog cables. As long as you have a PC/Laptop w/ HDMI you could use this with no issues.

 

 

 

PS to my earlier post to you - my laptop has HDMI.... how would I connect this up?

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post #58567 of 62195
12/31/12 at 2:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_mike View Post

The beta REW with ASIO support and a suitable driver such as ASIO4ALL allows you to select a single input channel such as the Centre channel, then you connect an RCA to 3.5mm lead between Centre Out (Pre-out) and feed that back to the laptops analogue input, acting as the loop back. Adjust the levels as appropriate and make the correction file.
If you want to check, just select another output channel and move the RCA as well, and check that the correction is still valid. Job done.
The actual sweep testing only requires the single HDMI, but the initial loop back requires the RCA lead.
Regards, Mike.

Thank you Mike, all is clear. Meantime, I did a bit of a search ovet at the HTShack's REW Forum where John Murphy (author of REW) says the loop-back type correction of the soundcard with ASIO4ALL may even be skipped.wink.gifsmile.gifcool.gif

Here's the thread.

So, get the UMIK-1 USB mic, "plug & play" (REW will recognize it) and you're ready to go. And now you can even select any channel with a mouse click. WOW! Getting better all the time! smile.gif
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post #58568 of 62195
12/31/12 at 2:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodean View Post

After running Audyssey, it shows my Bose 161 surrounds at 120HZ for crossover. I am not able to find a number on the speakers. Seems high to me (thought 80 was a standard starting point)
Should I change this value or leave as is?

 

Check these FAQ answers and see if they help:

 

c)1.   Why are my Crossovers set differently to my speaker manufacturer's specification?


c)2.   Why do I often see advice to raise the Crossovers to 80Hz?

 

c)4.   Is it OK to change the Crossovers from Audyssey's recommendation?

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post #58569 of 62195
12/31/12 at 2:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_mike View Post

With REW(beta) and ASIO support you can direct a laptop HDMI output to drive any of the eight available PCM channels individually, or two at a time using the timing reference output channel option.
Regards, Mike.

Wow, that's great! Does using HDMI output complicate creating a correction file for the "sound card"?

 

What is ASIO support?

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post #58570 of 62195
12/31/12 at 2:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

What is ASIO support?


Wikipedia:

"Audio Stream Input/Output (ASIO) is a computer sound card driver protocol for digital audio specified by Steinberg, providing a low-latency and high fidelity interface between a software application and a computer's sound card. Whereas Microsoft’s DirectSound is commonly used as an intermediary signal path for non-professional users, ASIO allows musicians and sound engineers to access external hardware directly."

Keith, now the only thing you have to decide is whether you are a musician or a sound engineer. LOL

Seriously, when ASIO4ALL is used cleverly in conjunction with REW, it can turn REW into an 8 channel monster, i.e. you can select which speaker(s) you want to ping/measure in your system. Mike or Jason will surely chime in on how to configure it properly.
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post #58571 of 62195
12/31/12 at 3:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

What is ASIO support?


Wikipedia:

"Audio Stream Input/Output (ASIO) is a computer sound card driver protocol for digital audio specified by Steinberg, providing a low-latency and high fidelity interface between a software application and a computer's sound card. Whereas Microsoft’s DirectSound is commonly used as an intermediary signal path for non-professional users, ASIO allows musicians and sound engineers to access external hardware directly."

Keith, now the only thing you have to decide is whether you are a musician or a sound engineer. LOL

Seriously, when ASIO4ALL is used cleverly in conjunction with REW, it can turn REW into an 8 channel monster, i.e. you can select which speaker(s) you want to ping/measure in your system. Mike or Jason will surely chime in on how to configure it properly.

 

Hehe. Yes, I looked at that in WikiP before posting.... hence my question ;)

 

Feri, WTF is it??  Is ASIO something my laptop will have, or if not can I get it? If I can get it, do I need to learn how to use it?  Or is it just something that works in the background and I can install it and forget it?

 

You can see why I like OmniMic :)

 

This quote from AV-Mike intrigued me too - I tried running it through an English-English translator but it didn't help :)

 

"The beta REW with ASIO support and a suitable driver such as ASIO4ALL allows you to select a single input channel such as the Centre channel, then you connect an RCA to 3.5mm lead between Centre Out (Pre-out) and feed that back to the laptops analogue input, acting as the loop back. Adjust the levels as appropriate and make the correction file. If you want to check, just select another output channel and move the RCA as well, and check that the correction is still valid. Job done."

 

Despite Jason's assurances, I think it may all be a step too far for me....

 

It reminds me of the time, decades ago, when I heard Charlie Parker say that if he "took the higher intervals of a chord and used them as a melody line,. backing them with appropriately related changes, [I] could play the thing [I'd] been hearing". It took me 20 years of study to understand that :)

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post #58572 of 62195
12/31/12 at 3:23am
I believe ASIO is a protocol for communicating with a sound card. ASIO4ALL is a driver that allows a sound card that is otherwise incompatible with ASIO to use it. ASIO allows a program to exclusively access a soundcard. This is my ignorant understanding of ASIO. I still don't understand that quote from Charlie Parker as I am ignorant when it comes to musical theory.
Edited by Theresa - 12/31/12 at 4:16am
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post #58573 of 62195
12/31/12 at 5:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

I believe ASIO is a protocol for communicating with a sound card. ASIO4ALL is a driver that allows a sound card that is otherwise incompatible with ASIO to use it. ASIO allows a program to exclusively access a soundcard. This is my ignorant understanding of ASIO. I still don't understand that quote from Charlie Parker as I am ignorant when it comes to musical theory.

Bingo! I've just got it set up Guys!!! smile.gif

First, make sure you have the latest version of REW (5.01 Beta 10) and the latest version of ASIO4ALL (2.11 Beta 1).

Go to REW->Preferences->Soundcard:

1. Choose ASIO in Drivers

2. Click on ASIO Control Panel radio button: in my case it shows a) Realtek and b) Inter (R) - audio, make Inter (R) audio active. Don't forget to put the check mark to: "Always resample 44.1 kHz<-> 48 kHz".

3. In the Output dropdown menu now you will see 8 selectable channels!! Oh, yeah!! So far, so good! I'll have to find out a way to rename them, coz the channels are just numbered 1-8, anyhow in my set up it is:

1: FL
2: FR
3: CC
4: Sub
5: SL
6: SR
7: FL Height
8: FR Height

Now choosing any of these numbers will direct the test signal to the appropriate speaker.

And now:

"Timing Reference Output" dropdown menu will show the same channel number. Clicking #4 will add the sub to that specific speaker.

Cream on the cake: the Denon AVR display shows: "Multi CH IN + PL IIz" and all 8 input indicators are lit!!!!!

Laptop is hooked up to AVR with one single HDMI cable!

WOW!
Edited by mogorf - 12/31/12 at 4:32pm
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post #58574 of 62195
12/31/12 at 6:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Thank you Mike, all is clear. Meantime, I did a bit of a search ovet at the HTShack's REW Forum where John Murphy (author of REW) says the loop-back type correction of the soundcard with ASIO4ALL may even be skipped.wink.gifsmile.gifcool.gif
Here's the thread.
So, get the UMIK-1 USB mic, "plug & play" (REW will recognize it) and you're ready to go. And now you can even select any channel with a mouse click. WOW! Getting better all the time! smile.gif

Thanks for the tip Feri, I ordered the Cross-Spectrum USB mic about 30 minutes after reading the initial post that mentioned it eek.gif
Regards, Mike.

Love the "English to English" translator - I use it all the time - thanks Keith smile.gif

Another tip here:-

Channel 4 is indeed the Sub - but more specifically it's the LFE channel, and as such it runs 10dB hot - so adjust the output level accordingly when sending sweeps to it.
The other channels will still employ any bass redirection set by the AVR of course - I just switch off the sub power if I want to test a speaker in isolation.
Edited by AV_mike - 12/31/12 at 6:40am
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post #58575 of 62195
12/31/12 at 6:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

I believe ASIO is a protocol for communicating with a sound card. ASIO4ALL is a driver that allows a sound card that is otherwise incompatible with ASIO to use it. ASIO allows a program to exclusively access a soundcard. This is my ignorant understanding of ASIO. I still don't understand that quote from Charlie Parker as I am ignorant when it comes to musical theory.

Bingo! I've just got it set up Guys!!! smile.gif

First, make sure you have the latest version of REW (5.01 Beta 10) and the latest version of ASIO4ALL (2.11 Beta 1).

Go to REW->Preferences->Soundcard:

1. Choose ASIO in Drivers

2. Click on ASIO Control Panel radio button: in my case it shows a) Realtek and b) Inter (R) - audio, make Inter (R) audio active. Don't forget to put the check mark to: "Always resample 44.1 kHz<-> 48 kHz".

3. In the Output dropdown menu now you will see 8 selectable channels!! Oh, yeah!! So far, so good! I'll have to find out a way to rename them, coz the channels are just numbered 1-8, anyhow in my set up it is:

1: FL
2: FR
3: CC
4: Sub
5: SL
6: SR
7: FL Height
8: FR Height

Now choosing any of these numbers will direct the test signal to the appropriate speaker.

And now:

"Timing Refrenece Output" dropdown menu will show the same channel number. Clicking #4 will add the sub to that specific speaker.

Cream on the cake: the Denon AVR display shows: "Multi CH IN + PL IIz" and all 8 input indicators are lit!!!!!

Laptop is hooked up to AVR with one single HDMI cable!

WOW!

That does indeed sound pretty cool.

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post #58576 of 62195
12/31/12 at 7:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_mike View Post

 
Love the "English to English" translator - I use it all the time - thanks Keith smile.gif

Another tip here:-

Channel 4 is indeed the Sub - but more specifically it's the LFE channel, and as such it runs 10dB hot - so adjust the output level accordingly when sending sweeps to it.
The other channels will still employ any bass redirection set by the AVR of course - I just switch off the sub power if I want to test a speaker in isolation.

 

:)  Thanks Mike :)  There seems to be a lot of REW expertise in here, so maybe I will give it a go. I do like the simplicity of the OmniMic, but I also like a lot of the extra features of REW too. It has always just seemed so complicated to me (my computer knowledge is basic).

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post #58577 of 62195
12/31/12 at 7:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

I believe ASIO is a protocol for communicating with a sound card. ASIO4ALL is a driver that allows a sound card that is otherwise incompatible with ASIO to use it. ASIO allows a program to exclusively access a soundcard. This is my ignorant understanding of ASIO. I still don't understand that quote from Charlie Parker as I am ignorant when it comes to musical theory.

 

Thanks Theresa. Your understanding is leagues ahead of mine I am sure. 

 

It was the love of that sort of Jazz when I was a young man that led me down the long and difficult road of trying to understand the theory. But the great thing about music is that it is not required to 'understand' it in order to love it.

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post #58578 of 62195
12/31/12 at 7:26am
OmniMic DOES provide individual calibration files. No charge if you send in your mic. Furthermore, it is, I believe, calibrated to 5hz and not 15hz like the REW mic and since my subs go that low in my room, that is a nice capability.

I will probably go ahead and buy this new REW mic just to compare it to what I have been using.

The analogy that comes to mind when I compare even the easier to use (hopefully) REW and OmniMic is Microsoft's early attempts at Windows versus Apples intuitive user interface.

Just sayin'
Edited by audioguy - 12/31/12 at 7:55am
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post #58579 of 62195
12/31/12 at 8:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

I will probably go ahead and buy this new REW mic just to compare it to what I have been using.

The analogy that comes to mind when I compare even the easier to use (hopefully) REW and OmniMic is Microsoft's early attempts at Windows versus Apples intuitive user interface.

Just sayin'

 

IKWYM. As someone who has used Macs for years and years now, I still shudder when I recall my dark days of XP, and before. HST, REW is available for OSX as well though...

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post #58580 of 62195
12/31/12 at 8:49am
I use MS products on my music server (that's what the guy who built it uses) and on the laptop for OmniMic, Audyssey Pro, and one other application (A DVD inventory app). Other than that, all Apple. In fact, I had one of the original Macs in 1984 and an Apple II in 1978!!

Sorry for the OT meandering!!!
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post #58581 of 62195
12/31/12 at 9:02am
Does REW augment your Audyssey XT-32? I have an AV7005 + XPA5 with an AS-EQ1 right now. I have never used REW, but my daily reading on this latest version is peeking my interest, but I am not too techy, but always looking to improve SQ.

So if I am understanding correctly, if you have a laptop with HDMI, by a mic or mini dsp as well and get the two latest versions I will be able to run REW and get the graphs to see where the system is 'lacking' for a better word and able to tweak it? How does the AVR know to keep that curve on it or do you need to leave laptop attached (I can't imagine that). Sorry for the newbie questions. I have more reading to do tongue.gif
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post #58582 of 62195
12/31/12 at 10:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

smile.gif  Thanks Mike smile.gif  There seems to be a lot of REW expertise in here, so maybe I will give it a go. I do like the simplicity of the OmniMic, but I also like a lot of the extra features of REW too. It has always just seemed so complicated to me (my computer knowledge is basic).

Me too on that - and I like the idea of being able to pick channels at will. OmniMic is a heck of a lot easier to use, but until they have their 7.1 DVD ready, it's still a PITA for testing configurations as you have to either disconnect channels in the Denon GUI, and/or play with various sound modes to test the response. Being able to flip between a FR curve, SPL, and waterfalls for the same measurement looks cool, though.

The only complication: www.asio4all.com is down at the moment. I get a message in German that can't be translated by Google, but I think it's saying the home page doesn't exist.
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post #58583 of 62195
12/31/12 at 11:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Me too on that - and I like the idea of being able to pick channels at will. OmniMic is a heck of a lot easier to use, but until they have their 7.1 DVD ready, it's still a PITA for testing configurations as you have to either disconnect channels in the Denon GUI, and/or play with various sound modes to test the response. Being able to flip between a FR curve, SPL, and waterfalls for the same measurement looks cool, though.
The only complication: www.asio4all.com is down at the moment. I get a message in German that can't be translated by Google, but I think it's saying the home page doesn't exist.

http://download.cnet.com/windows/steinberg-media-technologies/3260-20_4-82512.html?tag=rb_content;contentBody
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post #58584 of 62195
12/31/12 at 11:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

All of a sudden, not quite so simple. And that is why i continue to use OmniMic. So it is $100 for the mic plus the price of the sound card plus making it work. While may still be cheaper than the $250 I paid for OmniMic, I was never able to get consistent results with REW. And while the ability to use the USB mic should simplify it some, total plug-n-play better fits with my impatient personality.

Yeah - more like $200 in fact. Looks like me and OmniMic will be seeing in the New Year together after all.

No No no... wink.gif NOT $200. You do not need any external sound card if using a USB Mic because you no longer need full duplex capabilities since you won't be using the sound card for "input" (that will be the USB Mic now) at the same time as "output." The output is all you'll be using on the sound card and I haven't seen a PC/Laptop since about 1997 that doesn't have a built-in sound card, so I'm sure you don't have to purchase anything but the Mic which is less than $100. smile.gif

--J
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post #58585 of 62195
12/31/12 at 11:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post


A great post Jason - thanks. I may still be tempted (your argument is very seductive). What would I need as an external soundcard to connect to my prepro? Can you recommend one?  Is it OK to connect that to the front AUX connector on my prepro?  I would need a long lead as my hardware is in a closet outside the HT - what sort of lead would this be?  Thanks for you help.

Wow, Keith! I've been called a lot of things in my life, but seductive is a new one! biggrin.gif

You will NOT need an "external" sound card. I'm SURE your PC/Laptop has a sound card and the one that is built-in is more than adequate if manufactured in the last 10 years or so. Promise! (My business is computer hardware/software, sales and service, in business since 1994, so I'm sure of this)

Yes, the front AUX is exactly what I use. If you want "easy" (actually, every method is very easy, but this is the long-term/in-use tried and true method) and only care about the front 3 channels as far as testing goes, then you can use a simple RCA cable, and 25' or so is fine, but I wouldn't go more than 50' max, and stay as close to 25' as possible.

Monoprice makes great ones and you can do the same for even less. All they do is use standard RG-6 Sat/CATV cable and put some RCA plugs on the end. I make my own for even less, but if you don't want to fool with it and don't need custom lengths, their prices cannot be beat.

You'll simply plug the mic in to your PC/Laptop (Up to 15' standard USB extension cable can be used and if you need longer than that, Monoprice again has wonderful and cheap options for amplified USB cables for much longer lengths) and then from the sound card in the same computer you'll run an RCA cable back into your pre-pro's AUX input.

That's it!

If you want access to all channels for testing (the only program that does this, for free or any reasonable amount of money at least) then you'll need a PC/Mac/Laptop with HDMI. You'll simply plug the Mic in to the USB port, same as the other example, and then run an HDMI cable from your computer to your pre-pro.

There are no other cables/connections required. Then simply download the driver from the link Jeff posted above, install it (can't mess this up - anyone can do it...Just click next next finish) and you're good to go.

I'm honestly not trying to make this sound any easier or more difficult than it is.

BTW - TO ALL - I have received several PM's from folks asking for assistance and assure you I am responding to each and every person and will assist each and every one of you. I LOVE this stuff and have learned so much here in the two years I've been a member and am so happy I can finally give back!

Keith, the offer goes to you too. If you want to learn REW and have any questions, from physical setup to use to interpreting the graphs (plus how to set them, what to look for,etc) I'm more than willing to help you and give you one on one guidance, even over the phone if that is what it takes, as my way of saying thank you for all the time you spend helping others.

I honestly don't know what I would've done without Jeff's posts and your posts in the beginning and when I compare my system and room, plus knowledge then (2 years ago) to what I've learned and applied now, it's as if I went from a HTIB to a $250,000 system (at least set up the way most people's high end stuff is compared to the "right" way wink.gif ) so don't worry, have a little faith, and I promise, I'm here for you.

You may want to take a look at mine and Jerry's thread from a month or so ago. There is a lot of great info in there. Don't worry if it confuses you at first. If it at least intrigues you and you want to learn more or it excites you vs putting you to sleep, then you need to hurry up and get your mic and cable so we can get you going. smile.gif I don't have the link handy but I'm sure Jerry can provide it for you.

Let me know how you feel after reading that and if you wish to proceed, remember, I'm here, and so are a lot of very knowledgeable people.

We won't leave you hanging!

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL!!!

--J
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post #58586 of 62195
12/31/12 at 11:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

What is ASIO support?


Wikipedia:


"Audio Stream Input/Output (ASIO) is a computer sound card driver protocol for digital audio specified by Steinberg, providing a low-latency and high fidelity interface between a software application and a computer's sound card. Whereas Microsoft’s DirectSound is commonly used as an intermediary signal path for non-professional users, ASIO allows musicians and sound engineers to access external hardware directly."


Keith, now the only thing you have to decide is whether you are a musician or a sound engineer. LOL


Seriously, when ASIO4ALL is used cleverly in conjunction with REW, it can turn REW into an 8 channel monster, i.e. you can select which speaker(s) you want to ping/measure in your system. Mike or Jason will surely chime in on how to configure it properly.

Hehe. Yes, I looked at that in WikiP before posting.... hence my question wink.gif

Feri, WTF is it??  Is ASIO something my laptop will have, or if not can I get it? If I can get it, do I need to learn how to use it?  Or is it just something that works in the background and I can install it and forget it?

You can see why I like OmniMic smile.gif

This quote from AV-Mike intrigued me too - I tried running it through an English-English translator but it didn't help smile.gif

"The beta REW with ASIO support and a suitable driver such as ASIO4ALL allows you to select a single input channel such as the Centre channel, then you connect an RCA to 3.5mm lead between Centre Out (Pre-out) and feed that back to the laptops analogue input, acting as the loop back. Adjust the levels as appropriate and make the correction file. 
If you want to check, just select another output channel and move the RCA as well, and check that the correction is still valid. Job done."


Despite Jason's assurances, I think it may all be a step too far for me....

It reminds me of the time, decades ago, when I heard Charlie Parker say that if he "took the higher intervals of a chord and used them as a melody line,. backing them with appropriately related changes, could play the thing [I'd] been hearing". It took me 20 years of study to understand that smile.gif

All it is is a driver/program that you will download and install one time. You can't really mess it up. It's easy. I'm here if you need help, but with this step at least, I cannot imagine you having any issues. Simply download and install.

--J
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post #58587 of 62195
12/31/12 at 11:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

I believe ASIO is a protocol for communicating with a sound card. ASIO4ALL is a driver that allows a sound card that is otherwise incompatible with ASIO to use it. ASIO allows a program to exclusively access a soundcard. This is my ignorant understanding of ASIO. I still don't understand that quote from Charlie Parker as I am ignorant when it comes to musical theory.

Bingo! I've just got it set up Guys!!! smile.gif

First, make sure you have the latest version of REW (5.01 Beta 10) and the latest version of ASIO4ALL (2.11 Beta 1).

Go to REW->Preferences->Soundcard:

1. Choose ASIO in Drivers

2. Click on ASIO Control Panel radio button: in my case it shows a) Realtek and b) Inter (R) - audio, make Inter (R) audio active. Don't forget to put the check mark to: "Always resample 44.1 kHz<-> 48 kHz".

3. In the Output dropdown menu now you will see 8 selectable channels!! Oh, yeah!! So far, so good! I'll have to find out a way to rename them, coz the channels are just numbered 1-8, anyhow in my set up it is:

1: FL
2: FR
3: CC
4: Sub
5: SL
6: SR
7: FL Height
8: FR Height

Now choosing any of these numbers will direct the test signal to the appropriate speaker.

And now:

"Timing Reference Output" dropdown menu will show the same channel number. Clicking #4 will add the sub to that specific speaker.

Cream on the cake: the Denon AVR display shows: "Multi CH IN + PL IIz" and all 8 input indicators are lit!!!!!

Laptop is hooked up to AVR with one single HDMI cable!

WOW!

Isn't it wonderful, Feri?

Did you have any issues or questions/hiccups along the way that you didn't understand which may be able to be explained now to better help other folks that will be doing this or at least to ease their minds on how easy this is to do?

I honestly think by doing this that we will ALL be able to take our Audyssey discussions to a whole new level and may even be able to learn more about it than we previously thought possible, IE: The way it works, what it both is and is not doing, may be able to piece together a little of the secret sauce, etc. wink.gif

Most importantly it will less us go from trusting Audyssey to trusting but verifying and letting us know exactly what, if anything, we need to tweak after running Audyssey.

The possibilities are endless and the best use I've found for REW so far is guiding me on exactly which room treatments, how many, and where to place for the best results, and to stop focusing so much on the frequency response and realize that is only about 10% of the picture. Once I improved my modal ringing/decay times, my ETC, group delay, comb filtering went away, things tightened up, and my system now sounds as good again as the difference between no Audyssey and with Audyssey. It is truly refined now and that just cannot happen without measurements and understanding them.

--J
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post #58588 of 62195
1/1/13 at 7:12am
Jason,

Speaking as one who has benefited from your assistance recently, I want to thank you for opening our eyes to these new REW capabilities. As a long-time REW user, I have always dreaded the set-up and tear-down time for the external sound card, mixer, mic and cables. I am looking forward to streamlining my kit! Thanks again for your valued contributions, even though you don't visit us here often enough.
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post #58589 of 62195
1/1/13 at 8:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

I use MS products on my music server (that's what the guy who built it uses) and on the laptop for OmniMic, Audyssey Pro, and one other application (A DVD inventory app). Other than that, all Apple. In fact, I had one of the original Macs in 1984 and an Apple II in 1978!!

Sorry for the OT meandering!!!

 

Similar - Windows lappy specially for OM and Audyssey Pro. You might care to check out the Mac-only DVD cataloguing program called DVDPedia. I have used it for ages and it is terrific - by far the best I tried on either platform.

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post #58590 of 62195
1/1/13 at 8:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Being able to flip between a FR curve, SPL, and waterfalls for the same measurement looks cool, though.

 

Yes, that is one of the big appeals for me.

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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › "Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1)