"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 1963

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Originally Posted by cuzed2 

Pretty sure it s PLXII

PLII Cinema is what is usually used, rather than PLII Music, because cinema does a little less processing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdurani 

Keith,

Despite the reception, I'm still curious about the tech. With the original DSX, stereo sources had to be converted to multi-channel first (using PLII or Neo), at the very least to extract centre content out of the L/R channels so that DSX doesn't spread it wide and high.

But if DSX 2 is going to do all the converting itself, then it is going to have to provide surround and centre outputs, and it can't do the latter by adding early reflections (as original DSX did). Now that Audyssey has lifted that limitation, it will be interesting to see how they derive the 11 channels from 2-channel material.

OK, back to walking the floors at the Las Vegas Convention Centre.

Very interesting, Sanjay. It will be interesting to compare DSX2 with Neo:X.  Have fun - if you see anything worthy of note, do let us know!

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdurani 

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioguy 

If Audyssey can make this new 11.2 system sound anything like the demo that I heard at CEDIA a year or so ago put on by Lexicon, I would figure a way to add the additional speakers and jump all over it.

Funny you should mention the Lex demo at CEDIA, which used 5 heights and no wides. The 11-channel version of DTS Neo:X as envisioned by its inventor James Johnston (who occasionally posts at AVS), was to use a standard 7.1 layout and 4 height speakers. DTS opted to use the additional 4 channels as 2 heights and 2 wides instead (maybe influenced by Audyssey?). Well, at this year's DTS demo at CES, guess what: no wides; 7 speakers around ear level and 4 height speakes, like JJ originally wanted.

IF this is going to be an option or a running change in Neo:X, it comes at an inconvenient time, considering a couple of Blu-ray titles (Expendables 2, Dredd) already have Neo:X encoded heights and wides. So while Audyssey puts priority on wides (before heights and surround-backs), other companies (Lex, DTS) are prioritizing it the other way 'round: surround-backs before heights, heights before wides (if at all).

This would be good news for me - I struggle to accommodate wides but I can have as many Heights as they can offer me!

"mic.Quote:

Originally Posted by cuzed2 


Great info guys.
I was never sure of the difference between those modes. I think I need to revisit my Center channel FR measurement (I'm now wondering what I used last time)
sidenote: I should soon be receiving my fancy new UMIK-SB mic, for easier to use REW measurements

 What is a "UMIK-SB" mic.  Nothing came up on Google.  Do you have a link?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bishamon 

I purchased a new Denon AVR-1713 receiver and have used the Audyssey setup several times now (after adjusting speakers, moving my sub, etc.), and it always seems to set the crossover points high - 200Hz for the center channel and 250HzWhile your speakers are modest, and may sound just fine for the front and surrounds. Given that my sub supposedly tops out at 120Hz, this would seem to leave quite a gap in frequencies. If I manually lower the crossover frequencies, I understand that will effect the overall calibration. On the other hand, it sounds like there are some frequencies missing (despite the fact that I can't hear a gap when running frequency sweeps via Avia). Manually adjusting the crossovers to 120Hz seems to fill in those missing frequencies.
I cannot move the front speakers closer to the wall with my current setup (they are about 2 feet away on stands), and the surrounds are almost against the back wall (maybe 6-8 inches away) and facing each other (this configuration seems to work best since the primary couch is also sittng against the back wall, and the surrounds end up on the same vertical plane as my head, but 2+ feet higher). They are Technics 1-way speakers; the front and rears each have two 8cm "full range" drivers, and the center has 4 of the same drivers. They aren't the best speakers (I will upgrade, eventually), but they have always sounded surprisingly good. Should I leave the crossovers set at the manually adjusted 120Hz, and if so, are there any other adjustments I should make to offset the fact that Audyssey has not modified the frequencies below 250/200Hz?

Audyssey measures to determine the "F3" of your speakers, which is the frequency at which response is down by 3dB.  It then reports the F3 to the AVR, which in turn sets the crossover.   A number of factors determine the F3 as measured by Audyssey, including the quality of the speakers and drivers, the placement in the room, the liveliness of the room, etc.  In the short term, since you can't move the speakers, and since the speakers are modest, the crossover value is something that you may be foreced to accept.

Keep in mind that the Audyssey filters do not work below the F3, so if you manually change the crossover to a lower value, the gap between 200-250Hz and 120Hz will have no filter applied.  This is why it is never recommended to lower the crossovers below the F3 point.

So, it seems that you can either leave the crossovers where they are, lower them knowing that you have an un-filtered gap, or accelerate purchasing more capable speakers.  If I were you, I would experiment to see what sounds best in the short term, and start researching new speakers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bishamon 

I purchased a new Denon AVR-1713 receiver and have used the Audyssey setup several times now (after adjusting speakers, moving my sub, etc.), and it always seems to set the crossover points high - 200Hz for the center channel and 250Hz for the front and surrounds. Given that my sub supposedly tops out at 120Hz, this would seem to leave quite a gap in frequencies. If I manually lower the crossover frequencies, I understand that will effect the overall calibration. On the other hand, it sounds like there are some frequencies missing (despite the fact that I can't hear a gap when running frequency sweeps via Avia). Manually adjusting the crossovers to 120Hz seems to fill in those missing frequencies.

I cannot move the front speakers closer to the wall with my current setup (they are about 2 feet away on stands), and the surrounds are almost against the back wall (maybe 6-8 inches away) and facing each other (this configuration seems to work best since the primary couch is also sittng against the back wall, and the surrounds end up on the same vertical plane as my head, but 2+ feet higher). They are Technics 1-way speakers; the front and rears each have two 8cm "full range" drivers, and the center has 4 of the same drivers. They aren't the best speakers (I will upgrade, eventually), but they have always sounded surprisingly good. Should I leave the crossovers set at the manually adjusted 120Hz, and if so, are there any other adjustments I should make to offset the fact that Audyssey has not modified the frequencies below 250/200Hz?

In your case I would leave the XOs set at 120Hz. Any negative impact on Audyssey's correction will probably be less important than having no significant response at all between the 120Hz your sub can reach and 250 Hz. There's no point sending 250Hz and below to a sub that can’t reproduce it.

Audyssey setting such high XOs almost certainly points to a deficiency in your speakers - all that Audyssey does is 'listen' to the -3dB FR it detects in the room and reacts accordingly. In your case, it is detecting nothing worthwhile below 250Hz for the fronts and surrounds. You could choose a better sub which reaches higher - say up to 200 Hz, or better speakers which dig deeper. Or both ;)

Investment in more capable speakers is rarely a waste of time or money - the speakers (and the room) have the greatest influence on what you hear, by far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth3si 

After I completed Audyssey setup it set my sub level to -8.0db (from the sub's 12 'o clock gain dial). Is this normal? Do I leave it at -8.0db or do I change it and by how much?

It isn't a problem as such, but it is outside the usually 'accepted' range of +/- 3.5dB. Basically you want to avoid maxing out the sub in the trims and you are a long way from that. But the -8dB trim you are getting suggests that the sub gain control is set too high, so it may be worthwhile setting it a little lower and running Audyssey again. I aim for a sub trim of about -5dB, so that I can, if I wish, run the subs up to 3dB hot and still have a trim of -2dB, comfortably within the 'range'.

This FAQ answer has some background relevance:

f)3.    How do I set the controls on my subwoofer before running MultEQ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth3si 

Quote:

Originally Posted by asere 

No it's not normal. -8 means the sub gain is too high. Bring it closer to 9 o'clock and redo Audyssey to get+/-3

redo all 8 listening positions again??

Yes - you can't just run the sub on its own. Mike's suggestion is a good one for getting the sub gain right - but as he says, you will have to run all 8 again to get the best calibration.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimP 

For XT32, what's considered the minimum number of readings for Audyssey to function properly?

I'm equalizing for a single listening position.

The best results, for most people. are usually obtained from running all 8 mic positions.

For one LP you can cluster the mic positions more tightly around the MLP if you wish - only experimentation can tell you if that will give you a more satisfactory result than following the AUdyssey guidelines to the letter. Take a look at these FAQ answers for some background info etc:

d)2.   Do I really need to use all the available Audyssey mic positions?

d)3.   Where should I position the mic for best results?

d)5.   Why do I need to measure where nobody sits?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bishamon 

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinJerry 

So, it seems that you can either leave the crossovers where they are, lower them knowing that you have an un-filtered gap, or accelerate purchasing more capable speakers.  If I were you, I would experiment to see what sounds best in the short term, and start researching new speakers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbarnes701 

In your case I would leave the XOs set at 120Hz. Any negative impact on Audyssey's correction will probably be less important than having no significant response at all between the 120Hz your sub can reach and 250 Hz. There's no point sending 250Hz and below to a sub that can’t reproduce it.

Audyssey setting such high XOs almost certainly points to a deficiency in your speakers - all that Audyssey does is 'listen' to the -3dB FR it detects in the room and reacts accordingly. In your case, it is detecting nothing worthwhile below 250Hz for the fronts and surrounds. You could choose a better sub which reaches higher - say up to 200 Hz, or better speakers which dig deeper. Or both

Thank you, gentlemen! I listened to various sources last night with the crossovers adjusted to 120Hz, and it definitely sounds better than it did when set at 200/250Hz. I just upgraded my sub two weeks ago and I have been trying to resist the urge to upgrade the rest of my speakers, and this isn't helping.

:)  You are welcome. If you upgrade anything, speakers are the best starting point. Good luck and enjoy your movies/music. Don't hesitate to come back here if you have any more questions!