"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 1970

What happens when the tweeter is above your ear in ceiling?

Thanks I have read both and plan to have them ready when I do recalibrate.

In that case the tweeter is being picked up by the mic from a direction that is incorrect. It's not the end of the world, but the highs from that channel might be attenuated by Audyssey more than it should. Try it and listen for any negative effects from the non-standard incidence of the sound.

Beyond that, and I know the reasons for in-ceiling speakers, the sound from ceiling speakers is reaching the listeners from direction other than the intended one and the one "assumed" by the mix.

Jeff
Edited by pepar - 1/16/13 at 8:55am

 

Audyssey will still calibrate as best it is able - it has no idea where the speakers are located and just 'hears' the response in the room. I have never heard a ceiling speaker setup that has, to me, been very satisfactory but that doesn’t mean, of course, that it is not possible. Just that I haven't heard one yet. For me, it is a compromise too far.

For me the system sounds real nice at my place with the HSU sub however I haven't heard any other system other than mine so it would be hard to know what I am missing.

I mostly post because sonebody will remember where to link to the relevant test. There's an issue about microphone frequency response. If, as I think I recall, on-axis (as you would essentially be from ceining speakers with mic pointed straignt up) the mic "hears" mire highs, then you may end up wit a too-dull correction as Audyssey corrects for excess highs that are due only to mic orientation being different than the expected grazing angle. If your sound seems too dull (especially using Audyssey flat or whatever the Onkyo kludge is to get to the same place) try using the mic pointed at the walls so the sound is reaching the mic at the angle that Audyssey's buitl-in mic correction expects.

To the gang: Unless I dreamed it, somebody did a comparison of microphones' frequency response on and off axis, including at least the RS SPL meter and, again IIRC< including an Earthworks measurement mic. Maybe even an Audyssey mic. I had it in my head that Ethan did that, but did not see it on a quick perusla of his website. At any rate, if I'm right that the typical mic hears more highs straight on than at a grazing angle, it might be appropriate to turn it sideways for ceiling speakers. Easy to do if you're using a boom stand and the approrpiate adapter . . .

 

Oh sure - I wasn't dissing your system or your sound in any way - just expressing my own preference based on experience with a couple of friends' systems, which use ceiling speakers. I have no idea what the speakers are though (neither do they!) but they were installed professionally and, as you might guess, for WAF reasons :)

Was it this:

 

http://www.realtraps.com/art_microphones.htm

 

Or maybe this, which does include an Audyssey mic:

 

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/spl-meters-mics-calibration-sound-cards/44678-accuracy-digital-radio-shack-meter-compared-wm-61a-audyssey-mic.html#axzz2IAlu7xAL

So you suggest I tilt the Audyssey mic all the way to get better results?

I KNEW somebody would save my bacon. Thank you Mr. Barnes. It was the realtraps site that I remembered. Not sure how to analyze the shack post just because I don't recognize the reference mic. But to my eyes the shack results might suggest that the Aud mic without correction could be reasonably acceptable . . . assuming the ref is reasonably flat.

This thread has been extremely helpful, thank you Mr. Barnes!

I'm curious how many of you used a boom arm microphone stand (with adapter) and how many used a camera tripod?

tripod here! until I go pro:D

 

It's my turn to be forgetful now - I saw a better comparison recently of the Audyssey mic and some other mics but I can't find it now - have searched my browser history too. The Audyssey mic came out pretty well IIRC. If I find the link I will post it.

 

Thank you for saying so. There are some very knowledgeable, very helpful guys in this thread. IMO it's one of the best on AVS. (And the longest!).

 

Both will do the job but the boom stand is so much easier to use it's worth the 20 bucks it costs. Repays you time and again in time saved.

 

d)1.   Do I really need to put the Audyssey mic on a tripod or stand?

Is this the thread you Guys are looking for?

Measurement Mic Shootout (EMM-6, WM-61A, RS 33-2055, Audyssey)

It also contains a link to the cal file of the Audyssey mic, but unfortunately the site is down.

Well, fellow AVS members, I could use some advice! I just bought the Onkyo 717 receiver (with Audyssey 2EQ) and in my initial two full calibrations (with the gain at 10 o'clock and the other at 12 o'clock) the calibration level for my SVS PC12-NSD sub was at +12dB...NOT GOOD! I called SVS and Jack advised me to turn the gain up to 3/4. I did and it still resulted in +12dB. Then I dedided to gamble and I turned the gain up to max and now the level for the sub is at +3.0dB. Jack said that was really odd, but that it wouldn't hurt the sub. He did say that the next real test was my listening experience. I'm listening to some music now (Trance) and the bass is actually too high for my taste (and I LOVE BASS!), so, any suggestions? I do have the option in the Onkyo to lower my LFE level...would that help?

Edit: I just checked my Onkyo manual and the option for lowering the LFE is limited to certain soundfields.

Edit: Also, just so you know, I replaced a Pioneer receiver that worked fine with MCACC. I only had the gain at 12 o'clock on my SVS sub to achieve a level of +1dB, so it's definitely not the sub unless something happened to the sub recently.
Edited by djoberg - 1/17/13 at 8:44am

Mine says 1182 :-) I prefer to see more posts per page.

Bill

 

For the info of other members, I have been working on this with djoberg by PM and suggested ne bring it here as I can not offer any further assistance. I used to own first one, then two PC12-NSDs and I am familiar with them and, of course, with Audyssey. I have never come across a situation where someone has turned up the gain on subs as capable as the PC12-NSD to MAX and still found that the bass trim is being set at +3dB in the AVR. 

 

Of course, 2EQ does not EQ the bass at all (although it sets levels and delays) but that wouldn't account for what djoberg is seeing unless, I guess, the sub is sitting in a massive modal peak in the room.

 

djoberg - have you tried moving the sub elsewhere and running Audyssey again? Three mic positions will do for experimental purposes. Also, I suggest a sub crawl to optimise the position of the sub before running Audyssey. Put the sub on the chair at the MLP and crawl around the room on your hands and knees and when you get to the place where the bass sounds best, that is where the sub should go.

 

 Something is clearly wrong somewhere - my PC12s had the gain set at about 10 o'clock for trim levels of about -3.5dB. Anyone got any thoughts?

 

Just curious if there's a recommended track to play when doing a sub crawl?  Seems like the results could be mixed depending on what's playing when you are in different locations.

I'm on a lunch break and am leaving shortly, but I want to thank you for all your help. Regarding your suggestion to do a sub crawl, why would the sub need to be moved when it worked great at that location with my Pioneer receiver? Again, the MCACC calibration achieved a good level with the gain set at 12 o'clock, so shouldn't the same location achieve similar results?

Jack at SVS told me to check my sub out by reconnecting my Pioneer and doing another calibration just to rule out that the sub is the culprit. If it works, then he believes the Onkyo's sub out is malfunctioning by sending out too weak of a signal. Any thoughts from others would be appreciated.

If you still have it, try Jack's advice.

 

Any CD with good bass will do. I have used my favorite bass player CDs in the past - Stanley Clarke etc. The results are surprisingly self-evident when you find the 'sweet spot' in the room.

 

 

Because it is always good practice to get everything optimised before running Audyssey. It is just an additional trouble-shooting test you can fairly easily undertake. I am not suggesting it will solve the problem - it seems likely to me that you have a faulty AVR. That's the most obvious conclusion from the fact that it played fine with the Pioneer and doesn’t with the Onkyo.

 

 

I would also suggest not discounting the unlikely but obvious potential of a bad cable...

(but yes my money is on bad AVR or maybe faulty microphone)

is it true that -75 db is the proper calibration for each speakers?

I doubt it could be a faulty microphone based on the fact that Audyssey calibrated all of my other channels within the proper range of -3.5dB and +3.5dB. As far as the cables go, I had actually rewired all of them with new banana plugs prior to buying the Onkyo 717 because I was having trouble with my Pioneer receiver going into protection mode (i.e. shutting down) during loud playback with scenes having extremely low/high frequencies. The CS rep at Pioneer determined (after I checked each speaker out by disconnecting them one by one and playing a scene where the Pioneer would always shut down) that the AVR was defective and he gave me the nearest authorized repair dealer to have it fixed. I decided, instead of investing more money in an entry level receiver with limited functions, to replace it with the Onkyo.

Edit: I just reread my post and saw that you said cable and NOT speaker wire. So, which cable were you thinking it *could* possibly be? I assume you're referring to the sub cable...if so, it worked perfectly fine with my Pioneer receiver hooked up to it.
Edited by djoberg - 1/17/13 at 2:22pm

Yes, but it's not minus. It's 75 dB SPL (Sound Pressure Level) measured at the MLP (Main Listening Position) with the test mic placed at seated ear height.

oh yes, its 75db not -75. i have SPL from my android app, after running my aud. i check it using my SPL app and it says 73db for all the speakers, it is possible if i tweak all of the speakers using my SPL app to get 75db or should i leave it what the aud result is?