"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 2013

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Originally Posted by mogorf 

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Originally Posted by pepar 

lol, this wouldn't even be on my list of things that would make me *think* my system sounded different.

Heck, I think Chris K. is watching us from the clouds. Here's what he has to say on the issue of lowering the LPF from 120 Hz to 80 Hz. " If you feel like remixing (some call it shaping...) the content in the LFE track then sure. So, preference vs reference again. But if you want to hear it the way it was mixed then you should leave it at 120 Hz (or higher where it won't be in the way)."

A candidate for the FAQ, eh?

Source: Audyssey Tech Talk at FB.

The FAQ already clearly states Audyssey's position on LPF of LFE. It also makes it clear that the setting of the LPF to anything other than 120Hz is a preference issue.

The problem is 'hearing it the way it was mixed' might make it sound like cr&p if the mixer shoved all manner of stuff into the LFE channel above 120Hz in order to make the bass sound better in less than adequate cinemas (as Roger Dressler suggests might happen).  On my admittedly limited listening tests, I could hear a slightly tighter bass (a little boom removed) on some content when using 80Hz. On other content I could hear no difference - I assume because the mixer didn't put much into the LFE channel above 80Hz anyway. 

I'd suggest that anyone interested, and who has good, capable subs, just tries it out. A good disc to hear the difference is Total Recall (2012) (more or less any chapter) and Taken (sequence where Mills visits the tented brothel to look for his daughter, the subsequent shootout and his escape by vehicle through the construction site culminating in him driving through a temporary structure). 

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Originally Posted by pepar 

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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 

 If you have the Total Recall (2012) Bluray, give it a try. The difference is quite noticeable here. 

Incidentally, although that movie was panned by every critic on the planet, I really enjoyed it. One has to get over comparing it with the original - it bears no comparison (and yes, the original is better - but that was then and this is now).  I feel somewhat similar about Bourne Legacy too. I saw it at an actual cinema and wasn't much impressed but since getting it anyway on BD, I have grown to like it).

I had read reviews and was going to pass on it, but then a few days ago I saw a lot of it and was blown away with how great the effects and mix were. Neither Beckinsale nor Sharon Stone could act their way out of a paper bag, or Ahhnold or Colin Farrell for that matter. But holy crap was I ever transfixed. So, LPF at 80 and LPF at 120 sound different? Which is "right?"

Yes - it doesn't count as 'art' in any way, but it is exceptionally well made and crafted, visually, sonically and effects-wise. It will sure give your subs a workout! And Kate and Jessica are very easy on the eye ;)

LPF of 80Hz or 120Hz - moving away from 120Hz has to be preference so 'right' isn't an issue then. I'd suggest you try it if you have a spare half hour and see if you heard the same as I did. I think one needs very capable subwoofers perhaps, to really hear the difference - but that is you too, so give it a go and see what you think. Roger Dressler and Mark Seaton are just about the most credible sources one gets on AVS, and they both prefer 80Hz.... which is why I was moved to try it myself.

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Originally Posted by bsoko2 

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Originally Posted by pepar 

I can allow that the .1 channel on some surround music mixes might have extraneous and even annoying content, and maybe LPF at 80Hz cleans them up. But until I hear a movie that sounds better that way, and maybe not even then as I would tend to trust the standards-based movie industry more than the music biz, the LPF setting is ... unneeded.

I the LPF at 80 for movies and with 4 Submersives I can tell the difference especially with Total Recall. It probably has to be due to me having 4 subs on a 2300 cu ft treated room. The bass just seems to me to be sharper and tighter. Just like the first time we did the other thing!

Yes, I agree. I do think that this difference is only going to be obvious to people with extremely capable subs, able to not just dig deep but also to exhibit subtle nuances of difference. It really is just obvious on Total Recall (2012) isn’t it?  I am in a slightly similar position to you with 2 Submersives in a highly treated room of just over 1000 cu ft.

FWIW, I tried different settings of LPF of LFE ages ago when I had my dual SVS PC12-NSD subs and at that time I coule hear no difference at all, on either setting. So that reinforces my view that it may require exceptionally capable subs to fully reveal the difference.

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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 

 

The FAQ already clearly states Audyssey's position on LPF of LFE. It also makes it clear that the setting of the LPF to anything other than 120Hz is a preference issue.

 

The problem is 'hearing it the way it was mixed' might make it sound like cr&p if the mixer shoved all manner of stuff into the LFE channel above 120Hz in order to make the bass sound better in less than adequate cinemas (as Roger Dressler suggests might happen).  On my admittedly limited listening tests, I could hear a slightly tighter bass (a little boom removed) on some content when using 80Hz. On other content I could hear no difference - I assume because the mixer didn't put much into the LFE channel above 80Hz anyway. 

 

I'd suggest that anyone interested, and who has good, capable subs, just tries it out. A good disc to hear the difference is Total Recall (2012) (more or less any chapter) and Taken (sequence where Mills visits the tented brothel to look for his daughter, the subsequent shootout and his escape by vehicle through the construction site culminating in him driving through a temporary structure). 

I still think the benefits of setting LPF to 80Hz applies more to MC music sources than movies.  AFAIK, music should not be mixed with content in the .1 channel.  However, if you perform the test I described earlier (play a MC source like SACD, set speakers to Large, and turn the speakers off so just the subs are playing), you will hear some content that has muffled, imprecise bass sound coming from the subs.  The presence of this unwanted .1 signal detracts from the pure quality that would be coming from redirected bass.

So, perhaps the recommendation should be:  set LPF to 120Hz for movies, and switch to 80Hz for MC music.

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Originally Posted by AustinJerry 

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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 

 

The FAQ already clearly states Audyssey's position on LPF of LFE. It also makes it clear that the setting of the LPF to anything other than 120Hz is a preference issue.

 

The problem is 'hearing it the way it was mixed' might make it sound like cr&p if the mixer shoved all manner of stuff into the LFE channel above 120Hz in order to make the bass sound better in less than adequate cinemas (as Roger Dressler suggests might happen).  On my admittedly limited listening tests, I could hear a slightly tighter bass (a little boom removed) on some content when using 80Hz. On other content I could hear no difference - I assume because the mixer didn't put much into the LFE channel above 80Hz anyway. 

 

I'd suggest that anyone interested, and who has good, capable subs, just tries it out. A good disc to hear the difference is Total Recall (2012) (more or less any chapter) and Taken (sequence where Mills visits the tented brothel to look for his daughter, the subsequent shootout and his escape by vehicle through the construction site culminating in him driving through a temporary structure). 

 

I still think the benefits of setting LPF to 80Hz applies more to MC music sources than movies.  AFAIK, music should not be mixed with content in the .1 channel.  However, if you perform the test I described earlier (play a MC source like SACD, set speakers to Large, and turn the speakers off so just the subs are playing), you will hear some content that has muffled, imprecise bass sound coming from the subs.  The presence of this unwanted .1 signal detracts from the pure quality that would be coming from redirected bass.

 

So, perhaps the recommendation should be:  set LPF to 120Hz for movies, and switch to 80Hz for MC music.

Yes, it may well be more beneficial on music. But the difference can still be easily heard on some movie content.

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Originally Posted by pepar 

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Originally Posted by CheYC 

When I claimed I heard a profound difference, I actually did. I was watching LoTR TT, and switched from 120 to 80 during the epic battle scene during the end, and the bass, to me, sound much different in terms of tightness.

Well, it's entirely possible that what you characterize as tighter just had some things missing. And if your system/room response is still too resonant 80-120, then yes it might sound a bit tighter since you are exciting those modes less. However, that is not the recommended correction.

Just tossin' that out there ...

Jeff

That's not what Mark said and Roger measured though...

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Originally Posted by beastaudio 

-Tells me subs are too high and to level them out, which I do, as close to 75dB as I can get.
-Audyssey completes and upon checking levels, subs are both set at -12!!!!!
-Check with my spl meter to see what the subs actually read, and sure enough, they are both a good 10-12dB below where all the other speakers are set.

 

When you say 'sure enough' it sounds as if you expect the subs to be down by 10-12dB because the trim is set to -12dB. That isn’t how it works. The trim sets it so that the subs are playing at 75dB when the system is calibrated.  

Which version of Audyssey are you using?  Does your version check the sub levels before it allows you to start the calibration run? Is that where you are seeing the level of 75dB and adjusting the sub gain to achieve it?  Or are you measuring 75dB using a SPL meter and then adjusting the sub gain to match it?

If the former, something is wrong. When Audyssey measures the sub SPL and you set it to 75dB then Audyssey knows it is 75dB and it should not then set the trim to -12dB.  Are you using a mic stand or tripod to hold the mic?  Is the mic the original mic that came with your unit?

Have you read the FAQ and/or 101 (linked in my sig) and followed all of the advice in there for conducting the calibration?  Mic pointing vertically up, at ear level etc?

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Originally Posted by djbluemax1 

 

Any particular scenes in TR that stand out as being obviously different? I'd like to try it out, but there's no way I'll sit through that movie twice in a row with the 2 different settings to hear the difference. To me, the new TR, even more so than Tron Legacy, is nothing but eye (and maybe ear) candy. I liked the original TR. The new one had changes for the sake of being different, but several of the changes just don't make sense, where the original had valid reasons for those parts/concepts.


Max

:)  I agree with your critical evaluation but I still enjoyed it quite a lot. Yes, it is stupid in (many) parts but it is very well done stupid.

More or less any scenes will do. The opening has some good bass right from the start. There are a lot of scenes with deep bass - just skip through the chapters. I'd be interested in what you discover.