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That may or may not be so, but it has no bearing on the issue under discussion, which was whether an LPF of LFE works better at 80Hz or 120Hz.
Not really because no mixer is ever going to introduce voice content into the LFE channel. Certainly not knowingly. I did comment on your original post that Optimus Prime was an example of an exception to this, where the really deep voice effect could end up in the LFE channel (although I doubt it does) but certainly makes its way into the subs, via redirection of bass, depending of course on your chosen XO. It's easy to do a test - play Optimus Prime's voice with all other channels switched off and only the LFE channel working and see if you can hear the voice. This assumes you can turn off the individual channels which will be dependent on your setup. I don't think it's worth bothering personally and the entire topic isn't really all that important TBH. (No disrespect to Bill who first mentioned it).
Not really because no mixer is ever going to introduce voice content into the LFE channel. Certainly not knowingly. I did comment on your original post that Optimus Prime was an example of an exception to this, where the really deep voice effect could end up in the LFE channel (although I doubt it does) but certainly makes its way into the subs, via redirection of bass, depending of course on your chosen XO. It's easy to do a test - play Optimus Prime's voice with all other channels switched off and only the LFE channel working and see if you can hear the voice. This assumes you can turn off the individual channels which will be dependent on your setup. I don't think it's worth bothering personally and the entire topic isn't really all that important TBH. (No disrespect to Bill who first mentioned it).
Opening voice over for Transformers 2 has voice content in the LFE. Also our local NBC affiliate in Minneapolis, KARE11 local news does and it is extremely annoying. :-)
Not really because no mixer is ever going to introduce voice content into the LFE channel. Certainly not knowingly. I did comment on your original post that Optimus Prime was an example of an exception to this, where the really deep voice effect could end up in the LFE channel (although I doubt it does) but certainly makes its way into the subs, via redirection of bass, depending of course on your chosen XO. It's easy to do a test - play Optimus Prime's voice with all other channels switched off and only the LFE channel working and see if you can hear the voice. This assumes you can turn off the individual channels which will be dependent on your setup. I don't think it's worth bothering personally and the entire topic isn't really all that important TBH. (No disrespect to Bill who first mentioned it).
Opening voice over for Transformers 2 has voice content in the LFE. Also our local NBC affiliate in Minneapolis, KARE11 local news does and it is extremely annoying. :-)
Yeah - like I say, there will be a few exceptions. The mixer on that movie (I think it was No2) also, IIRC, puts the Optimus Prime voice into all three front speakers too, to create that sort of 'voice of god' effect. Used sparingly and well it can be very effective. But OP's voice is a sound effect rather than a voice IYSWIM.
Yes, depending on your chosen crossovers - if you are crossing over at 60Hz, no way, but if you are crossing over at 110Hz, then sure... in between, maybe. But it will be fairly unusual - if voice is coming from the subs as a normal sort of thing, something needs adjusting.
Agree, had to reach under mu sub and feel the woofer to be sure :)
Great post Max! The differences are indeed subtle, but noticeable which is what you and I both found. I am wondering if any differences between your impression and mine is a result of the difference in XOs we use - I use 100Hz to my Submersives as opposed to your 60Hz. I didn't try setting my speakers to Large and killing the main amps to just hear the LFE channel, so it is possible I guess that my higher XO is having some sort of influence, but I can't think what it could be (wrt to the LFE channel). I am sending more content to my Submersives than you are and I am wondering if that is influencing my results?
I have switched between 80Hz and 120Hz LPF so many times, trying to hear these differences on different content that I have finally settled on a LPF of 100Hz - compromise!! :) One other movie where I can hear clear differences, albeit subtle, is Taken - the brothel scene where Mills tries to find his daughter. If you have that movie, pay special attention to the shot where Mills has a flashback to his daughter wearing the blue jacket he has just found in the brothel, and the gunshots a few moments later when Mills is discovered, then the explosion when the oil drums get knocked over and the shot where the cars roll down the hill. On all those bits I can hear clear differences between 80Hz and 120Hz - but TBH neither one or the other makes much difference and I doubt if many people would care which LPF they used.
A few drops, literally, of Malvern Spring Water may (some say should) be added to a large measure of a good malt, such as my favourite, Lagavulin or Laphroaig and the water brings out the bouquet and enhances the flavour a little. Heaven. Even Audyssey cannot enhance your system as well as a few drams of Lagavulin IME :)
:) I share your pain to a small extent - all my hardware is in a closet outside the HT, so I have to all this to-and-froing too, but at least I don't get wet. Fortunately, I use the poor-man's Creston - a Harmony 1100 in wireless mode so that works from inside the HT. Weird that everything except Audyssey works via RS232. Might be worth getting hold of a cheap Harmony and wireless extender and use that instead, just for Audyssey, if you plan on making a habit of this :) So how did it all sound afterwards anyway?
I share your pain to a small extent - all my hardware is in a closet outside the HT, so I have to all this to-and-froing too, but at least I don't get wet. Fortunately, I use the poor-man's Creston - a Harmony 1100 in wireless mode so that works from inside the HT. Weird that everything except Audyssey works via RS232. Might be worth getting hold of a cheap Harmony and wireless extender and use that instead, just for Audyssey, if you plan on making a habit of this So how did it all sound afterwards anyway?
You SPL meter isn't very accurate for the LF region. Audyssey uses a complex method to determine the SPL of the sub before it runs the calibration (does your Audyssey version set the SPL of the sub before it lets you continue with the cal?) and this is going to be much more accurate than the typical inexpensive SPL meter most people have.
ggasantafe has given you the correct initial advice, which is to turn down the gain on the sub ti get the trim away from the maxed out setting. The FAQ has plenty of info to help you set up subs, but read this section for details of maxed out speakers/subs:
e)6. What do I do if my trim levels are at the limits of their adjustment ('maxed out')?
Once you have the subs set properly wrt to the trims, we can do more troubleshooting if needed. If your unit has Dynamic EQ you should also enable that. BTW, what listening levels do you generally listen at - the setting on the MV I mean?
You may also find this FAQ answer helpful:
f)5. Since I ran Audyssey everything sounds great - but where has my bass gone?
Woody - I don't think it is reliable to compare Denons and Onkyos in this way. Let's go through the normal troubleshooting procedure to see if we can get to where you want to be. Recalibrate with the sub gain turned down - aim for a trim level of anything between -5dB and + 3.5dB. Then come back and we can take it from there.
