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"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 2026

post #60751 of 62756
3/15/13 at 11:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Audyssey Sub Distance Tweak Procedure.pdf 1121k .pdf file
Quote:
Originally Posted by chambers1517 View Post

Ok, thanks for the quick response. I have a feedback destroyer and the guys on one of the IB Sub forums say improvement can be made over audyssey by manually tweaking. Is there anything to gain by doing a manual calibration?

I am just venturing into the world of PEQ to be used in conjunction with Audyssey Pro. Yes, I believe there are things you can do. Audyssey is good but it is not, of course, perfect and it is possible to improve on what Audyssey does. One such easy improvement is to do the 'sub distance tweak' to improve the splice at the crossover frequency (search that term for more info or download the attached document that I compiled for another thread). In addition, I am about to experiment with using PEQ to tweak the response of my dual subs to a flatter curve than Audyssey sets. If you measure independently after Audyssey has done its work, you will see significant differences between what Audyssey predicts it will do and what it actually does. Some of this is down to the fact that in most post-Audyssey measurements one only measures one seat - but I only calibrate for one seat with Audyssey anyway, so that doesn't matter to me (I am the only critical listener). The usual advice is to run the PEQ first to give Audyssey a 'better starting point' but it depends on what you are trying to achieve. There are reports of systems with a huge 25dB peak for example that Audyssey cannot tame and in this case PEQ applied prior to Audyssey can help a lot. OTOH, if Audyssey is doing a pretty good job but you just want a better job, then you might apply a little PEQ after running Audyssey as the 'icing on the cake'. 

If you do do any manual EQing, please come back and tell us how you got on!






Audyssey Sub Distance Tweak Procedure.pdf 1121k .pdf file

Keith,

Here is some fun I had with a little pre-audyssey eqing smile.gif Enjoy the read:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1444885/dbx-dual-31-band-eq-deq2496-adventures-in-manually-eqing
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #60752 of 62756
3/15/13 at 11:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

A similar subwoofer level problem was reported in another thread (for the 8801, I think), but it was even worse: the final setting was at -12dB, indicating that Audyssey couldn't calibrate it properly. The final (uncalibrated) sub sound level was also much lower than it should have been according to owner's sound level meter. Quite a few suggestions were made, but nothing obvious was concluded.

That was me, and my solution ended up being to set the pre-audyssey testing levels at the EXACT right spot as low as it would let me while still being in the green, and then run Audyssey. It still set the subs much lower again, but I always go back and tweak the settings and measure with REW or OM so, I am able to see the results of my adjustments.
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post #60753 of 62756
3/15/13 at 12:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Yes.

Dynamic EQ isn't something Audyssey invented you know. it has been around for years and is found in various devices besides Audyssey devices.

Keith, the question was: "Does it (THX LP) also have a dynamic part that looks into the contents on the fly and adjusts accordingly for soft and loud tones while MV setting remains untouched?"

I'm not familiar with THX LP coz my Denon which is not THX certified does not have such a feature, that's why I asked? cool.gif

 

Did you not see the 'Yes' in my reply? ;)

 

It does dynamic equalisation but is less 'aggressive' in the boosts it makes. 

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post #60754 of 62756
3/15/13 at 12:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

 

Here is some fun I had with a little pre-audyssey eqing smile.gif Enjoy the read:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1444885/dbx-dual-31-band-eq-deq2496-adventures-in-manually-eqing

 

Oh that sounds interesting judging by the url.... I will take a look. Thanks.

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post #60755 of 62756
3/15/13 at 12:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I am about to experiment with using PEQ to tweak the response of my dual subs to a flatter curve than Audyssey sets. If you measure independently after Audyssey has done its work, you will see significant differences between what Audyssey predicts it will do and what it actually does. Some of this is down to the fact that in most post-Audyssey measurements one only measures one seat - but I only calibrate for one seat with Audyssey anyway, so that doesn't matter to me (I am the only critical listener).

Keith, can we make it clear for all the good guys coming here seeking practical solutions/advice that you:

1. ...measure only one seat by making use of all 8 available mic positions in the Onkyo 5509 in a tight pattern around the "money seat" that we can call "intended use" of Audyssey room correction software? Something that would deserve a pat on the shoulder from all here including Chris K! cool.gif

2. ...experiment with PEQ, but you only look at one mic position only and you base your tweaking results on that single graph (without multiple and averaged measurements around your money seat) that is usually a no-no in the field of acoustics???!!! Something that would be commented as "unintended use" by many, including Chris K!! biggrin.gif
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post #60756 of 62756
3/15/13 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Did you not see the 'Yes' in my reply? wink.gif

It does dynamic equalisation but is less 'aggressive' in the boosts it makes. 

A bit vague reply IMO, but nevertheless, ...BTW DynamicEQ can only be found in devices that bare the Audyssey logo, though I may be wrong here! tongue.gif
Edited by mogorf - 3/15/13 at 12:47pm
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post #60757 of 62756
3/15/13 at 2:43pm
I did a little experiment before and put a large pillow on top of my couch up against the wall (about 2 feet behind where my listening position is) and I noticed that when I clapped in the room, the echo dropped significantly. I ran Audyssey and my xovers dropped from 120 hz all around to 60 for my fronts and center and 100 for my surrounds. I removed the cushion, re-ran, and they all jumped back up. Seems like there is a reflection coming off my back wall (don't know if that's the correct terminology...) directly behind my couch and that for some reason is causing a change in my low frequency response, if that makes sense. Very interesting. I think I'm going to leave the settings as they were with the cushion because I am eventually hanging a painting back there, though I don't know if that will have the same effect as a cushion.
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post #60758 of 62756
3/15/13 at 2:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Indeed - or you can use THX Loudness Plus if your unit has it - it does essentially what DEQ does but is less 'aggressive' in how it does it. (And I have the graphs to prove it LOL).

Keith, does THX LP really essential do the same thing as DEQ? Does it also have a dynamic part that looks into the contents on the fly and adjusts accordingly for soft and loud tones while MV setting remains untouched? cool.gif

 

For god's sake Feri - I have answered you three times. Read about if for yourself:

 

http://www.thx.com/consumer/thx-technology/thx-loudness-plus/

 

While you're at it, google 'dynamic equalisation' too and see how many products use it - you can even get it as a software plugin. You seem to think it's some sort of magic tool than only Audyssey have ever heard of. It's been around for ages - I had heard of it before I even knew what Audyssey was.

 

All dynamic EQ has a 'dynamic part' - the clue is in the name.

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post #60759 of 62756
3/15/13 at 2:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I am about to experiment with using PEQ to tweak the response of my dual subs to a flatter curve than Audyssey sets. If you measure independently after Audyssey has done its work, you will see significant differences between what Audyssey predicts it will do and what it actually does. Some of this is down to the fact that in most post-Audyssey measurements one only measures one seat - but I only calibrate for one seat with Audyssey anyway, so that doesn't matter to me (I am the only critical listener).

Keith, can we make it clear for all the good guys coming here seeking practical solutions/advice that you:

1. ...measure only one seat by making use of all 8 available mic positions in the Onkyo 5509 in a tight pattern around the "money seat" that we can call "intended use" of Audyssey room correction software? Something that would deserve a pat on the shoulder from all here including Chris K! cool.gif

2. ...experiment with PEQ, but you only look at one mic position only and you base your tweaking results on that single graph (without multiple and averaged measurements around your money seat) that is usually a no-no in the field of acoustics???!!! Something that would be commented as "unintended use" by many, including Chris K!! biggrin.gif

 

1. I normally measure 9 or 10 positions around the MLP - the only seat I care about. I use Audyssey Pro. I have also realised that Audyssey does not get a 'perfect' result - and Audyssey have realised that too, which is why they introduced the Curve Editor in Pro. This allows you to adjust the Audyssey result, after calibration, to compensate for any deficiencies in what Audyssey has done. It is limited form of post-Audyssey EQ though because it can only EQ to +/- 3dB and it has no bandwidth adjustment. The latter makes it fairly useless IMO.

 

2. I am experimenting with PEQ. When I have something to report, you will be the first to know.

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post #60760 of 62756
3/15/13 at 3:03pm
Quote:
2. I am experimenting with PEQ. When I have something to report, you will be the first to know.

Well while my thread didn't inspire a whole lot of convo, if you have any questions during your process and what I found during mine, PM me smile.gif I am happy to help out!
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post #60761 of 62756
3/15/13 at 3:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Did you not see the 'Yes' in my reply? wink.gif

It does dynamic equalisation but is less 'aggressive' in the boosts it makes. 

A bit vague reply IMO, but nevertheless, ...BTW DynamicEQ can only be found in devices that bare the Audyssey logo, though I may be wrong here! tongue.gif

 

 

<sigh>. Yes you are wrong.

 

Dynamic Equalisation is a process. Audyssey may have coined a marketing term called 'DynamicEQ' but that doesn't have any bearing on the underlying technology which is old hat really.

 

Here is one company that does 'dynamic equalisation' - http://www.klarkteknik.com/faq-05.php  They call it T-DEQ.

 

Here is another - http://www.sonalksis.com/dq1.htm  They call it DQ1.

 

Here is another - http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun10/articles/qa0610_4.htm  They call it IQ4 VST.

 

If you google it for more than 4 seconds (how long I just spent) you will no doubt find numerous other companies who offer 'dynamic equalisation'. 

 

Does it matter what they call it?

 

Is there a point to your question or is it a slow day in Hungary?

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post #60762 of 62756
3/15/13 at 3:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Did you not see the 'Yes' in my reply? wink.gif

It does dynamic equalisation but is less 'aggressive' in the boosts it makes. 

A bit vague reply IMO, but nevertheless, ...BTW DynamicEQ can only be found in devices that bare the Audyssey logo, though I may be wrong here! tongue.gif

 

If you were genuinely interested instead of just fanboying for Audyssey, I have the graphs I made which show the difference between DEQ and THX LP. They are essentially the same but THX LP gives a less aggressive boost at the bottom end.  Nothing vague about them at all.

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post #60763 of 62756
3/15/13 at 3:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CheYC View Post

I did a little experiment before and put a large pillow on top of my couch up against the wall (about 2 feet behind where my listening position is) and I noticed that when I clapped in the room, the echo dropped significantly. I ran Audyssey and my xovers dropped from 120 hz all around to 60 for my fronts and center and 100 for my surrounds. I removed the cushion, re-ran, and they all jumped back up. Seems like there is a reflection coming off my back wall (don't know if that's the correct terminology...) directly behind my couch and that for some reason is causing a change in my low frequency response, if that makes sense. Very interesting. I think I'm going to leave the settings as they were with the cushion because I am eventually hanging a painting back there, though I don't know if that will have the same effect as a cushion.

 

Instead of a painting, why not get some of those acoustic panels that can be printed with artwork - GIK do them and probably others too. Google GIK Acoustics for more info.

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post #60764 of 62756
3/15/13 at 3:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

While I do fully agree with you Jeff, but I think for all to have a clear picture why DEQ stops at 0 dB level is because that is the well known movie reference level (aka 0 dB electric, 105 dB acoustical). In other words if we were standing next to the sound engineer in the studio we would also hear the exact same 105 dB SPL that we hear in our rooms with the MV set to 0 dB, thus no need for compensation, eh? cool.gif

It's much of an artificial solution, not directly related to how our hearing changes, just indirectly. Kinda replicating the studio circumstances in our homes in a controlled and most effective way at one given SPL level called reference level. Once we turn the MV from 0 dB up or down DEQ is called in to do it's compensation job so that we can enjoy the same spectral balance yet at a different volume level smile.gif

Reference level is "man made", so compensation is also "man made".

Feri, the whole purpose of DEQ is to compensate for human hearing differences as SPL changes. Reference level needs zero changes in HF and LF because the content was EQ'd by the mixer at Reference. But any level other than Reference needs compensation in both HF and LF so we hear the same tonal balance at the other-than-Reference-level as at it.

If Reference, which *is* entirely a man made thing, was 10dB lower, than the DEQ compensations would be correspondingly different. Ditto 10dB higher. But the "compensation" is based on hearing tests, so it is entirely subjective.

Jeff
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post #60765 of 62756
3/15/13 at 3:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Quote:
2. I am experimenting with PEQ. When I have something to report, you will be the first to know.

Well while my thread didn't inspire a whole lot of convo, if you have any questions during your process and what I found during mine, PM me smile.gif I am happy to help out!

 

Thanks Beast - I may well take you up on that. I looked at both the threads - I had totally forgotten we had exchanged ideas on this last year - then Feri popped in with some Audyssey marketing information for us LOL. At least he learned the difference between a graphic equaliser and a parametric one. I think ;)

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post #60766 of 62756
3/15/13 at 3:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Instead of a painting, why not get some of those acoustic panels that can be printed with artwork - GIK do them and probably others too. Google GIK Acoustics for more info.

Awesome thanks! These look great.
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post #60767 of 62756
3/15/13 at 3:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CheYC View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Instead of a painting, why not get some of those acoustic panels that can be printed with artwork - GIK do them and probably others too. Google GIK Acoustics for more info.

Awesome thanks! These look great.

 

Yeah - if that reflection is making all that difference to what Audyssey is 'hearing' in your room then damping it down has to be a good move. In fact, usually, applying acoustic treatment to the back wall makes a significant difference. You might need two panels in which case choose some complementary artwork for each and they'll look pretty cool.

 

If your room is that reflective BTW, you may need more treatments elsewhere... WAF permitting LOL.

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post #60768 of 62756
3/15/13 at 3:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Yeah - if that reflection is making all that difference to what Audyssey is 'hearing' in your room then damping it down has to be a good move. In fact, usually, applying acoustic treatment to the back wall makes a significant difference. You might need two panels in which case choose some complementary artwork for each and they'll look pretty cool.

If your room is that reflective BTW, you may need more treatments elsewhere... WAF permitting LOL.

My original plan was to get a 3 panel paining there anyway, along the lines of this So these panels would work out perfectly
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post #60769 of 62756
3/16/13 at 12:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

That is interesting. I set my subs at 80dB on that first part of the calibration (because I want them trimmed down a little for various reasons). Afterwards, I always get trim levels of -5dB - exactly where I'd expect them to be. I don't have an answer for you, sorry, but thought it worth commenting. Hopefully someone will have a suggestion. Is it connected with the fact you have an IB sub? IDK.

I had to set my HSU VTF 15h to 63 db with the spl to achieve a -3db audyssey calculation. Running XT on 3313 Denon...
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post #60770 of 62756
3/16/13 at 4:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CheYC View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Yeah - if that reflection is making all that difference to what Audyssey is 'hearing' in your room then damping it down has to be a good move. In fact, usually, applying acoustic treatment to the back wall makes a significant difference. You might need two panels in which case choose some complementary artwork for each and they'll look pretty cool.

If your room is that reflective BTW, you may need more treatments elsewhere... WAF permitting LOL.

My original plan was to get a 3 panel paining there anyway, along the lines of this So these panels would work out perfectly

 

That would be great - a good looking solution that will also solve a real problem. Have a good poke around the GIK site - there's a lot of interesting ans useful stuff there. Also the RealTraps site has some good tutorials and so on. 

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post #60771 of 62756
3/16/13 at 4:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

That is interesting. I set my subs at 80dB on that first part of the calibration (because I want them trimmed down a little for various reasons). Afterwards, I always get trim levels of -5dB - exactly where I'd expect them to be. I don't have an answer for you, sorry, but thought it worth commenting. Hopefully someone will have a suggestion. Is it connected with the fact you have an IB sub? IDK.

I had to set my HSU VTF 15h to 63 db with the spl to achieve a -3db audyssey calculation. Running XT on 3313 Denon...

 

I think the good point made above - that the SPL level setting test just uses pink noise - could explain this. It's probably just a coincidence that I set mine to 80dB and the trims come out at -5dB. It doesn't really matter much anyway TBH - so long as you are not near the extremes of the trim range it will be fine.

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post #60772 of 62756
3/16/13 at 1:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Feri, the whole purpose of DEQ is to compensate for human hearing differences as SPL changes. Reference level needs zero changes in HF and LF because the content was EQ'd by the mixer at Reference. But any level other than Reference needs compensation in both HF and LF so we hear the same tonal balance at the other-than-Reference-level as at it.

This is common knowledge, hopefully eveyone coming here understands the basics.
Quote:
If Reference, which *is* entirely a man made thing, was 10dB lower, than the DEQ compensations would be correspondingly different. Ditto 10dB higher. But the "compensation" is based on hearing tests, so it is entirely subjective.

Now this is an interesting point you have raised here Jeff, mind to have a word or two more on this issue?

IMHO even though as you say very correctly that the compensation is based on many hearing tests which are supposed to be subjective, of course, but the end result needs to be something very concrete on the output side. No way out, AVRs have to give answer with a definite boost or cut, they can not do something just roughly. This may lead us to the world of Fuzzy Logic again, where the input info is a bit obscured and not well defined (read: subjective as you say), yet on the output there is a definite and clear cut dB value for the required boost or cut. Even though DEQ was made for handling movie soundtrack compensation, the advent of RLO surely makes it possible for users to re-adjust compensation based on their own preferences.

We have seen members here making use of RLO for film soundtracks even though RLO was made to tame music not recorded to known standards. And that's where preference chimes in, eh?! smile.gif
Edited by mogorf - 3/16/13 at 2:18pm
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post #60773 of 62756
3/16/13 at 6:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post


. Yes you are wrong.

Dynamic Equalisation is a process. Audyssey may have coined a marketing term called 'DynamicEQ' but that doesn't have any bearing on the underlying technology which is old hat really.

Here is one company that does 'dynamic equalisation' - http://www.klarkteknik.com/faq-05.php  They call it T-DEQ.

Here is another - http://www.sonalksis.com/dq1.htm  They call it DQ1.

Here is another - http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun10/articles/qa0610_4.htm  They call it IQ4 VST.

If you google it for more than 4 seconds (how long I just spent) you will no doubt find numerous other companies who offer 'dynamic equalisation'. 

Does it matter what they call it?

Is there a point to your question or is it a slow day in Hungary?

Hi Keith, it's been a while. A question. You mention measuring DEQ and comparing it with the THX version. This would be tricky. Can you tell me how it is done?

I have to quibble with you a bit on the references you posted above where you see Dynamic EQ that predates Audyssey's version. I didn't check the dates, but at least THX did not make any such claims until quite some years after Audyssey established their technology. But, moreover, the THX reference only claims to adjust the EQ when the user turns down the volume. They make no claim to follow the input signal level and adjust gain on the fly to correct for the equal loudness contour curves of the human ear. Likewise, the other two links don't mention the equal loudness problem either. One focuses on compression and the third one focuses on some kind of eq that solves some irritations based on volume level. None of these claim to do what Audyssey DEQ does. I looked for a patent on what Audyssey does and didn't find one by Audyssey or anyone else.

Regards,
Harrison
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post #60774 of 62756
3/17/13 at 2:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hclarkx View Post

Hi Keith, it's been a while. A question. You mention measuring DEQ and comparing it with the THX version. This would be tricky. Can you tell me how it is done?

I have to quibble with you a bit on the references you posted above where you see Dynamic EQ that predates Audyssey's version. I didn't check the dates, but at least THX did not make any such claims until quite some years after Audyssey established their technology. But, moreover, the THX reference only claims to adjust the EQ when the user turns down the volume. They make no claim to follow the input signal level and adjust gain on the fly to correct for the equal loudness contour curves of the human ear. Likewise, the other two links don't mention the equal loudness problem either. One focuses on compression and the third one focuses on some kind of eq that solves some irritations based on volume level. None of these claim to do what Audyssey DEQ does. I looked for a patent on what Audyssey does and didn't find one by Audyssey or anyone else.

Regards,
Harrison

Hi Harrison,

I think anyone reading those references will surely arrive to the same conclusion as you have, i.e. we should really appreciate what Audyssey's DEQ is doing for us in the loudness compensation department as it seems no other implementation (including THX Loudness Plus) has the same or similar feature that looks into the contents (from soft to loud) to re-adjust the loudness compensation curves on the fly. wink.gif
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post #60775 of 62756
3/17/13 at 2:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hclarkx View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post


. Yes you are wrong.

Dynamic Equalisation is a process. Audyssey may have coined a marketing term called 'DynamicEQ' but that doesn't have any bearing on the underlying technology which is old hat really.

Here is one company that does 'dynamic equalisation' - http://www.klarkteknik.com/faq-05.php  They call it T-DEQ.

Here is another - http://www.sonalksis.com/dq1.htm  They call it DQ1.

Here is another - http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun10/articles/qa0610_4.htm  They call it IQ4 VST.

If you google it for more than 4 seconds (how long I just spent) you will no doubt find numerous other companies who offer 'dynamic equalisation'. 

Does it matter what they call it?

Is there a point to your question or is it a slow day in Hungary?

Hi Keith, it's been a while. A question. You mention measuring DEQ and comparing it with the THX version. This would be tricky. Can you tell me how it is done?

I have to quibble with you a bit on the references you posted above where you see Dynamic EQ that predates Audyssey's version. I didn't check the dates, but at least THX did not make any such claims until quite some years after Audyssey established their technology. But, moreover, the THX reference only claims to adjust the EQ when the user turns down the volume. They make no claim to follow the input signal level and adjust gain on the fly to correct for the equal loudness contour curves of the human ear. Likewise, the other two links don't mention the equal loudness problem either. One focuses on compression and the third one focuses on some kind of eq that solves some irritations based on volume level. None of these claim to do what Audyssey DEQ does. I looked for a patent on what Audyssey does and didn't find one by Audyssey or anyone else.

Regards,
Harrison

 

Hi Harrison - good to hear from you!

 

The best way to measure the differences in operation would be from the preouts, but as I have real difficulty getting to the back of my gear I just measured the in-room response with REW, using a base level with DEQ/THX LP off and then increasing the MV incrementally and re-measuring. It seemed good enough to show the differences - DEQ does essentially similar things to THX LP but the latter is less 'aggressive' in its boosts. I wasn't trying to show how it works - just the difference in effect.

 

WRT to the different versions of dynamic equalisation, sure they are all implemented differently as one would expect, but they all seek to perform the same task - to restore the perceptual levels as MV is diminished from reference. The dynamic part is what sets them apart from the old 'loudness control'. I think it is possible, although I don't know, that Audyssey's version of dynamic EQ is superior to THX's version as Audyssey set their curves by observing real life film mixers as opposed to using Fletcher-Munson curves, if that is indeed how THX did it.

 

In listening tests I can perceive no different at all between Audyssey DEQ and THX LP, other than the more agressive nature of DEQ, which is sometimes preferable and sometimes not, depending on what one is listening to.

 

Feri has thrown the usual fit when someone criticises Audyssey but the one thing that is constant in dynamic equalisation is that they all work dynamically :)  Whether one is superior to another is a moot point and is likely IMO to be a preference issue. The lack of any patents on dynamic equalisation speaks volumes to me (Mrs Keith is a Patent Attorney) and suggests that there is no actual 'new' technology ("novel with inventive steps" as she would say)  being deployed there by anyone. If Audyssey had invented something as innovative as claimed I feel sure they would have wanted to protect it BICBW of course.

 

The bottom line is that this is an argument drummed up by Feri really, in defence of what I assume he saw as a slight on Audyssey. FWIW, I have used DEQ from the very first day I did an Audyssey calibration and have never once turned it off, other than for test purposes. It works very well IMO.

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post #60776 of 62756
3/17/13 at 3:21pm
Having just upgraded my AVR (Denon 4520), I have run through MultEQ XT32 and used the recommended 8 mic positions around the two main seating positions.

It measured the distances about right, though the channel levels seemed a bit uneven. Using the SPL meter to test, the fronts were about 80db (centre about 75db), whilst 1 surround and the sub were both very low.

I understand that by using the SPL meter, I am measuring from one position rather than the 8 that Audyssey used. Though by changing each speaker to 75db (the sub definitely needed increasing), am I completely messing Audyssey’s settings?

Further, it set my crossovers as follows:

Fronts – Full pahse
Centre 60hz
Surrounds 40hz

Have set all speakers to small and crossover of 80hz (SVS STS-02’s). Is this ok to change?
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post #60777 of 62756
3/17/13 at 3:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chambers1517 View Post

Can someone explain this to me. I have Audyssey xt32 in an Integra 70.2 reciever. I have Klipsch Lascalas across the front and Audyssey trims then about 10db. I also have an IB sub. During setup one of the first things you must do is set the subs to 75db. Then I run the calibration and when I look at the settings Audyssey has chosen it always sets the sub trims to -10db. Why would it not be close to 0 on the sub trim since I set the sub to 75db during setup?


If Audyssey sets the level of the subwoofer to a very large negative number such as -10dB or -12dB, go back and
turn the level on the back of the subwoofer down to around 30%+/-.

Then rerun Audyssey.
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post #60778 of 62756
3/17/13 at 3:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post


... the one thing that is constant in dynamic equalisation is that they all work dynamically smile.gif

Here on the official Audyssey thread there are two types of guys,

a) those who already understand the two-tier operation of DEQ, and
b) those who still need a bit more time to digest what the two-tier operation means.

Should anyone fall under b) it's no problem, here's an excerpt from Audyssey's homepage easily understandable for those who are interested:

"Audyssey Dynamic EQ is no mere equalizer. It adjusts the levels of your music in real time to accommodate the changes in the way your brain processes sound. Sometimes you listen to your music loudly and sometimes you listen quietly.

What’s important to know, though, is that you hear different frequencies better or worse at different volumes. For instance, a bass line at quieter volumes can perceptually disappear entirely. So if you’re playing Queen’s “Under Pressure” at 85 dB and you drop the volume down to 65 dB, the volume doesn’t just change… the song does. That’s where Audyssey Dynamic EQ comes in. It knows what happens to the sound curve at all volumes and adjusts on the fly, keeping the perceptual sound curve the same. That’s how every song, at every volume sounds as deep and clear as is does at reference volume."
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post #60779 of 62756
3/17/13 at 4:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Hi Harrison - good to hear from you!

The best way to measure the differences in operation would be from the preouts,

Keith, the best way to measure what Audyssey DEQ's two-tier feature does would be like this:

1) Set MV at say -20 dB. At that point DEQ will surely be working hard on loudness compensation.
2) Do not touch MV again, but start to lower input level by 5 dB increments and take 3-4 measurements.
3) Overlay the graphs.
4) Result will be more and more boost of LF and HF as input level is lowered.

Should DEQ not have this second-tier feature the consecutive graphs after lowering the input level would be exactly the same.

Capito?cool.gif
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post #60780 of 62756
3/17/13 at 4:28pm
Ok, so my Audyssey frustration is increasing. I always wondered about the sub level being set so low. I added lots of acoustic treatments and wanted to recalibrate. I missed where I should use all 8 mic positions and thought this might be an issue. I tried to rerun audyssey but could only achieve 25db with the subs. It was loud so thought it might be the mic. Called Onkyo support and they suggested a reset. Lost all settings and they decided it is th mic. Lost old Audyssey calibration so I just set all levels with a RS meter until new mic arrives. Man the bass is so much more impactful. I was actually disappointed with my IB with the Audyssey settings. After setting the subs to 75db and Qudyssey trimming them by 10 how do I know the correct level setting. The RS meter isnt accurate in the lower ranges. Really questioning Audyssey now.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › "Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1)