"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 239

Originally Posted by yngdiego

If I change the input trim (not speaker trim) for the BD30 HDMI on the 3808 to bump it back up so I get a 85dB with Avia will DEQ realize that like you said it does for the channel trims and have a net effect of zero?

Originally Posted by Hughmc

Bumping this up as it got missed. Chris could you repsond to this? Thanks.

Originally Posted by yngdiego

I just measured the SPL for all five speakers, and they read 74 dB with my RS meter using the Denon built-in test tones. I have the Avia disc and played their 5.1 level test sounds which they say should read 85dB when played at reference level. So I set the 3808 to "0" master volume and the SPL was 81-82 dB for all channels. Now to be honest I haven't run Avia in ages so I can't say pre 1.95 was 85dB. But given the decreased volume at the same master volume setting, I tend to believe the differences.

If I change the input trim (not speaker trim) for the BD30 HDMI on the 3808 to bump it back up so I get a 85dB with Avia will DEQ realize that like you said it does for the channel trims and have a net effect of zero?

Basically I want to get my master volume back down to -10 with for my normal listening volume and make sure DEQ knows I'm at -10dB so it can work its DSP magic accordingly.

Originally Posted by diverdra

Similar question, Chris. After running Audyssey (8 positions as recommended in this forum) with the new feature pack, I checked the channel levels with a Galaxy CM-140 Check Mate SPL meter and to achieve 75dB I had to bump up all levels by 2-3. Have I defeated the purpose of Audyssey? Any negative impact to what I've done? Thanks!

Originally Posted by audyssey

The Avia disc was not mastered with the proper dialnorm and is 4 dB off. Unfortunately, the default setting for dialnorm in many DVD authoring programs is -31 dB, when it should be -27 dB to follow film standards. So, I think that MultEQ is setting the levels correctly to 75 for the internal noise (you read 74 with the SPL meter, so that's very close). The Avia should give you a reading of 81, which it does.

I believe you are saying that you used to listen at -10 and now -10 is too soft? Do have just Dynamic EQ on or is Dynamic Volume on as well? That would explain it.

I'm not really sure what the problem is that you are having. Dynamic EQ knows what the master volume setting is at all times. MultEQ has calibrated your speaker levels correctly and you have verified that. Help me understand the problem.

Originally Posted by Hughmc

I ran Audyssey again with my Denon 4308. This is the second time I have run it after installing the new feature pack upgrade. I am not happy with how it is setting speaker level, all minus, where before the update they were coming in all plus.

Like so many others I was listening to most material, BD's, music, PS3 and more between -15 -12 db master volume. Now I have to turn the volume to -5db to get the same results.

Now I also turned down the sub from the halfway 12 oclock position to 10 oclock since I got -12 db on the sub before. I got the same again, -12db. I also used to get the crossover for my fronts and rears at 40hz. They are now at 80hz.

I use LFE+Main setting as I have found that to be the best. I set my front L/R/C to large and when running Audyssey it sets them to large as well. It also sets my center 2db's lower than my mains and yet the center IMOP should be equal to or great than the mains for obvious reasons. The manual says if I set the sub to LFE+ Main that all the bass goes to the sub. I have found just the opposite.

Here is another question. If I run Audyssey and save the settings, if I go into speaker and sub levels and change the levels will they be used and override the Audyssey levels or is that only if Audyssey is off?

Originally Posted by yngdiego

The problem is with DEQ/DV "OFF" that at -10dB master volume that program material is no longer as loud as it used to be. Specifically Blu-Ray movies from my BD30 via HDMI. I found myself turning up the volume a few dB after the 3808 1.95 upgrade, and prior to the feature pack installation. Yes, enabling DV knocks several dB off the volume and but that didn't have me concerned.

Originally Posted by audyssey

Does the BD30 have DRC or Night Mode built-in? If it does, it may be triggered automatically by a flag on the disc content and this would cause the content to play at a lower level.

Nothing in the Audyssey-related firmware upgrade had to do with setting levels. It simply added Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume, which both make use of the levels that MultEQ sets as it always did.

Originally Posted by audyssey

Why does this make you unhappy? As long as the levels are correct, why does it matter what the trims are? This is a different calibration, right? It's possible that the mic was in a different position or that something else changed in your system.



It sounds like you have Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume on. That means that Dynamic Volume is working properly and is turning down louder parts. If you want to listen louder, then turn off Dynamic Volume and keep Dynamic EQ on.



That means that your sub level is too hot. Turn it down more if you want a smaller trim adjustment. The crossover point is calculated from the combination of all room measurements. So, if your mic positions are different than your original run it's possible that the data is giving you a different answer.



None of the above is true. If your center channel trim setting is 2 dB lower than the fronts, then this does not mean that the center channel is playing softer than the L and R. It means that it needed a different adjustment in order to play at the same level as L and R.

LFE + Main means that the bass from the satellite speakers goes to the sub and the main speakers. Some of the bass content is thus doubled and so this is not really an optimal configuration.



If by "Audyssey" you mean MultEQ, then the trim levels remain in effect whether you have MultEQ on or off.

Chris

Originally Posted by Hughmc

I have 4 seats across in my listening area and no other seating. Should I runa circle around the lmain listening position as you suggest or do like the manual on the 4308ci and some have done which is do 4 positions in my row and then four in front of my seating?

Originally Posted by kjgarrison

After re-running the setup on the new upgrade, there is a very noticeable increase in bass. It seems clean, but just a lot louder. I don't have measurment software/mike.

I mostly listen to internet radio.

I only have two front L&R speakers at present. Normal levels for us are -20 to -25 dB

Is this just DEQ showing me how much bass I was missing at my lower-than-reference listening levels?

Originally Posted by Bill Mac

I recalibrated Audyssey on my 805 after reading the Audyssey FAQs in regard to mic placement. I measured 8 positions (per the FAQ) when I noticed with every run the center channel and R&L surround tone output to be louder than the front R&L.

I thought it might have to do with the fact that I have a Bel Canto PRe3 (with HT Bypass) being fed off the R&L pre-outs of the 805 to the PRe3 then to a Bel canto S300 amp. All other speakers are being powered by the 805s amps. I thought Audyssey would set the channel levels properly (or close as possible).

But when I checked the channel levels with a RS SPL (set at 70db, C and Slow) meter the levels were off. The center level was at 82db, R&L front at 70-71db and the R&L surrounds at 78-79db. I set all channels to 75db which from what I recall it is fine and will not effect the other Audyssey settings. The LCR (Dynaudio Focus 140s and 200C) were set to large but from what I have read it might be best if I set them to small. I will experiment with those settings.

I know it might not be common but if you have a 2 Channel pre-amp in place with a AVR/SSP can this effect the way Audyssey will calibrate said system?

I found once I set the channel levels to 75db and watched BR version of Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets that the SQ was excellent. Much better overall SQ than when I calibrated before which I took readings from a much wider and unequal area. The bass response from my sub (I raised the level 2-3db) was much less boomy but with more impact. So much so my neighbors who were outside last night thought there was either fireworks or thunder in the distance. I am glad I finally checked out this thread.

Bill

Originally Posted by audyssey

I posted about this earlier, but I want to repeat it because it keeps coming up.

For the past several years, receivers have included a dynamic range compression method called DRC or Night Mode. It is supposed to solve the problem of content getting too loud, but it has failed to do so for a number of reasons including wrong setting of the flags during production, inability of the method to adjust the reaction time, and no capability for perceptual loudness correction when the volume is turned down.

Despite these shortcomings, manufacturers continue to include it in their products. Audyssey Dynamic Volume was designed to address the problems described above and with its ability to look ahead it can vary the reaction time to increases in loudness so that no artifacts are heard.

DRC is set to AUTO by default in the Denon AVRs. Although its menu disappears when you turn on Dynamic Volume, it's possible for it to still be turned on if the content flag is set in the Bluray disc. An example of this is the recent Iron Man release.

Please make sure you set DRC to OFF and not AUTO. To do this, turn off MultEQ and Dynamic Volume, then go to Parameter-->Audio-->Night Mode and set it to OFF.

DRC applies to only to Dolby-encoded content. DTS content uses D.COMP and that must be turned off as well for exactly the same reason.

Originally Posted by audyssey

Please make sure you set DRC to OFF and not AUTO. To do this, turn off MultEQ and Dynamic Volume, then go to Parameter-->Audio-->Night Mode and set it to OFF.

Originally Posted by hansangb

thanks Redhead! You just saved me 45mins of searching around for various settings!

Originally Posted by giomania

i finally ran audyssey this weekend!

Originally Posted by audyssey

Hi Bill,

The fact that there is an additional stage on the L and R channels is likely causing this issue. You said that the C, LSurr, RSurr and louder than the front L&R. But there is an additional volume control on the Pre3 that affects the L&R levels. Where do you have that set when MultEQ runs and where is it set when you listen? If you want to use the Bel Canto for 2 channel content, I suggest you set the volume control on it so that the internal test noise on the 805 measures 75 dBC-slow and then run MultEQ. After that, the Bel Canto volume control should remain unchanged. Does the Bel Canto have a marking for unity gain on the volume control?

Originally Posted by audyssey

This is a VERY good point. "Night Mode" has been around in receivers for years. It's official name is Dynamic Range Control (DRC) and it was implemented with the best of intentions: to prevent things from getting too loud. Unfortunately, it was a good idea that never materialized. One good idea in DRC was to allow the content producer to set a flag on the disc that will then trigger the DRC on the device that is playing it back. However, that link was broken a long time ago and the flag was rarely set. To make things worse, there are various DRC settings for Film, Music, etc., but they are almost never set correctly during production in the rare cases that they are even set at all.

Denon has decided to leave this Night Mode (DRC) in the AVRs that have Dynamic Volume. We explicitly specify that if Dynamic Volume is on, then the AVR must remove the option for engaging DRC. You will see that the menu disappears. But DRC also lives inside DVD and Bluray players and in some of these, the default state for DRC is "Auto' and content like Ironman may set it to ON. That triggers the DRC to come on on top of Dynamic Volume. That interaction is bad news. The solution is to make sure that Night Mode (DRC) in your DVD player is set to Off and not Auto.

Originally Posted by audyssey

I posted about this earlier, but I want to repeat it because it keeps coming up.

For the past several years, receivers have included a dynamic range compression method called Night Mode and now DRC for TruHD content. It is supposed to solve the problem of content getting too loud, but it has failed to do so for a number of reasons including wrong setting of the flags during production, inability of the method to adjust the reaction time, and no capability for perceptual loudness correction when the volume is turned down.

Despite these shortcomings, manufacturers continue to include it in their products. Audyssey Dynamic Volume was designed to address the problems described above and with its ability to look ahead it can vary the reaction time to increases in loudness so that no artifacts are heard.

DRC is set to AUTO by default in the Denon AVRs. Although its menu disappears when you turn on Dynamic Volume, it's possible for it to still be turned on if the content flag is set in the Bluray disc. An example of this is the recent Iron Man release.

Please make sure you set DRC to OFF and not AUTO. To do this, turn off MultEQ and Dynamic Volume, then go to Parameters-->Audio-->Surround Parameters-->DRC and set it to off. Do the same for D.COMP. Also, go to Parameters-->Audio-->Night Mode and set it to OFF.

Originally Posted by LarryChanin

Hi Chris,

Some preamps, such as the Integra DHC-9.9, feature Audyssey Dynamic Volume and THX Loudness Plus. I gather that when in one of the THX modes the owner should turn off THX Loudness Plus when enabling Audyssey Dynamic Volume?

I understand that some TVs feature Dolby Volume. I guess that should be turned off in the TV?

Thanks.

Larry

Originally Posted by REDHEAD

There seems to be some confusion on Night Mode, DRC, and D.COMP. Here is what is (or is not) available on the Denon 3808ci.


On the 3808, Night Mode, D.COMP, and DRC are three DIFFERENT things. Their selections will appear in the menu, depending on what type of format/soundtrack/source is being sent to the 3808.


For Night Mode, go to: MENU> PARAMETERS> AUDIO> NIGHT MODE: OFF, Low, Middle, High

For D.COMP, go to: MENU> PARAMETERS> AUDIO> Surr. Parameters> D.COMP: OFF, Low, Middle, High

For DRC, go to: MENU>PARAMETERS> AUDIO> Surr. Parameters> DRC: OFF, Low, Middle, High, Auto

*DRC only appears in the menu when bit-streaming a Dolby TrueHD Soundtrack. Night Mode and D.COMP are not available as a menu selection when DRC is present.

*Night Mode is not available as menu selection when Audyssey Dynamic EQ is on, and/or bit-streaming a dts, dts-HD MA, dts-HD HR, Dolby Digital Plus, and Dolby TrueHD Soundtrack.

*D.COMP is not available as a menu selection with Multi-Channel PCM (PlayStation 3, etc.), or bit-streaming a dts, dts-HD MA, dts-HD HR, and Dolby TrueHD Soundtrack.