"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 263

Watched a DVD last night and the dialog was better, but not phenomenal. Of course I have not recalibrated yet, but will as soon as I get 30 minutes of quiet. Couple new questions if I may:
1) My new location of my center channel is at the base of the TV and angled up a bit. This is actually closer to my ears than rigging something on top of the TV. So is there any reason the top of the TV is preferable, acoustic-wise?
2) When doing the auto-calibration, it says to make it as quiet as possible. But if my Dish PVR is always on and making noise, along with my ceiling fan, wouldn't it make sense to calibrate with those on since the system will have to overpower them when I'm using it anyway?

1. This should be fine. As long it is angled up towards your ears, it will be a big improvement over the cabinet.

2. I would turn off at least the ceiling fan.

Thanks. Chris, you agree?

Chris agrees with the Audyssey Setup Guide which agrees. Follow the setup guide.

OK, I see. Let me try to clarify:

There are two Audyssey technologies in your Onkyo receiver. The first deals with fixing room acoustics problems and it is called MultEQ. The second addresses human hearing changes as the volume is lowered. The first thing that diminishes at lower volumes is our perception of bass, so Dynamic EQ boosts it according to a set of curves that match human perception. The second thing that changes is our perception of surround impression, so Dynamic EQ boosts the surround level as you lower the volume.

If you want to use an SPL meter to set the speaker levels, then you must make sure that MultEQ is ON and Dynamic EQ is OFF. Or you can leave them both on and turn the volume to 0 because Dynamic EQ is inactive at that volume.

OK, here is the modification:

D. Audyssey uses the first measurement point to calculate the distances of each speaker and subwoofer. Distance measurements are really time measurements that ensure temporal coherence. It is a critical part of calibration becausewithout ityou have frequencies arriving at different times: This is called non-constant group delay, and is a form of distortion. The distances are calculated so the sounds from all speakers and subwoofers arrive at the first measurement position at the same time.

I guess that is what caused the other guy's measurement to be chubby in the lower region:
not listening at Volume 0 with Dynamic EQ enabled (which is the default after calibration).

The Onkyo 805 has MultiEQ XT, but I can't find anything in the manual about 'Dynamic EQ'; is this feature not on this AVR?

I updated the Setup Guide post and Word Document linked in my signature.

Mark

Chris,

You may remember me from the early part of this year when I was rather disappointed with the bass coming from my system. After several go rounds, you convinced me that my 50+ years of listening to heavy bass had affected my taste. I wanted to personally tell you that I just bought an Integra 9.9 and am thrilled with the gorgeous bottom I am hearing due to Dynamic EQ being on. I wish that it had been activated in my 9.8. Dynamic EQ is an essential part of the Audyssey implementation. Those who are still unhappy with controllers and receivers employing Multi EQ should listen to the newer versions that employ MultiEQ XT and Dynamic EQ. Whoever made the marketing decision to phase these in should be rewarded for making a lot of money for the companies. Unfortunately, many of us had to buy two units in succeeding years. Yes, it works beautifully but at what price.

OK, I answered my question (in the usual way, by doing a little searching around!); the 805 has MultiEQ XT, but not Dynamic EQ.

Does this suggest that, if we usually listen at -10 to -15, it would be a good idea to boost the levels of the sub and surrounds up a bit (from what Audessey sets them at)?

I think you are right. It's unfortunate that his installer didn't know about that...Also, he is not getting the benefit of Dynamic EQ if he has MultEQ turned off and doing manual EQ.

Since upgrading to Dynamic EQ, I find that the bass simply does not sound right. It seems much too loud.

Before the upgrade, Audyssey MEQ did a beautiful job of cleaning up the bass bloat I had. If I turn Dynamic EQ Off, resorting back to just plain Audyssey, the excess bass isn't there.

This could be:

1. An implementation issue with my Denon 4308 CI
2. Because, since I never play at reference level, I had not heard bass correctly 'before'
3. Because there is something wrong with Dynamic EQ

Perhaps there are other explanations that I am missing.

Question: Do other people here feel that Dynamic EQ produces too much bass? Is this a Denon thing, or does this happen with other brands?

Is it just me?

Art, thanks for coming back to let me know. I appreciate that. The good news is that you now have the latest Audyssey technologies. The bad news is that we are not done developing technologies that go after several remaining problems .

It's not just you, it's not a Denon thing, and it's not a bug. It is most likely the content you are listening to and how it was produced. I am guessing this complaint is for some music and TV programs. Please look at my earlier posts about this. The offending content is not produced under standard monitoring conditions. In the case of music it is usually monitored 10 dB above film reference, which is already too loud for most. In the case of TV it is because they haven't used bass management to actually listen to the bass in the program.

It's unfortunate that this happens, but Dynamic EQ works perfectly for movie content, well produced TV content and most music content. There will, however, be outliers for which you will have to turn down the bass. One day there will be a universal mixing standard...

i added a second bass to my system over the weekend and reran audyssey. My boomy bass is now gone on all sources with dynamic eq on.

kjgarrison,

I routinely turn DynamicEQ off when watching television. Things like male voices or some of the inane "whoomph" noises that Fox and ESPN add to football games completely overpower the sound on certain broadcasts.

On the other hand DynamicEQ is purely magic if you want to listen to a 5.1 or 7.1 movie soundtrack as low as -12 to -14dB below reference level as we occasionally do. It can make a well-mastered movie sound as impressive at conversational volumes as it does blasting out at empty-movie-theater levels. My advice is save DynamicEQ for movies, for the reasons Chris mentions.

P.S. On the gripping hand, if you were talking about bass bloat during movies...never mind!

Chris,

When setting up Audyssey, the position of the mic relative to the plane of the low or high frequency drivers has more of an effect on the final equalization correction than any other factor. I learned this after dozens of iterations setting up the 9.8. If I lacked bass, all I had to do was raise the mic by a foot or two. My main speakers are 7 ft. tall with the middle and high frequency drivers distributed over the top 3.5 feet of each box. Even though they are 13 ft away from the mic, the height effect is dramatic. Mu center is on the floor pointed at a 45 degree angle so a plot of frequency vs gain does not change very much with height. My surrounds' that are 6 feet away from the mic are very sensitive to vertical mic location. Bottom line is that you can create a desirable EQ curve by locating the mic in different vertical planes or relative to the tweeter or woofer drivers when the boxes are very large.

These differences, while audible, pale before the impact provided by Dynamic EQ. You guys hit the jackpot. I wish everyone could experience the magnificent audio I am enjoying. Really, everyone has been blown away. Whether it is a 50's Harmonicats recording on 7.5 ips R to R or the new Blu Ray Classical offering, everything sounds superb. Thank You!!!

Hello Chris,
You stated that you need to run Audyssey EQ an Dynamic volume at a optima level to get the full effect or benefits, what is that level, and how do you achieve it, if that level is to loud for your room, or you wife.
Thanks
roger

I am so confused right now!! I have read almost every post in this thread and have myself baffled.

When I run the Audyssey setup for my Denon 1909 all of my measurements are accurate EXCEPT for my sub. The distance on my sub is roughly twice what it is. Is this normal?

If I am getting too much bass from TV programs but it is fine for movies, shoudl I turn off Dynamic EQ? Can I still use the Audyssey Volume function?

The LPF for the Sub should be set at 120, right? Should I do this in the Manual cross over set up?

Hi, have you read this one just up the page?

You might have unnecessary circuitry in the subwoofer channel. The setup guide linked in my sig goes into some detail on that subject. Did you read the setup guide?

yes, I read the setup guide (reading it again right now). I have a def tech super cube 3 that is 12 feet from the main sitting area. My LCR speakers are all 12' from the main sitting area as well and they are all accurate as far as measurement. My sub comes up 24'.

I think I may see the problems I am having. First, my SC3 is about 5" from entertainment center. Since the SC3 has passive speakers on the side, it is probably reflecting off of my entertainment center. I have the phase control set to 0 and the LPF set all the way over. According to Def Tech, the LPF is ignored though if you are connecting right to the LFE, and the RL inputs

I'm not certain how that proximity would account for the doubling of the distance measurement. What's the "RL inputs?"

The sub has three inputs: LFE, or a Right and Left (red and white) input. I use the LFE input. I have run Audyssey SEVERAL times and it always results in the sub having twice the correct distance. I can't move the sub (room restrictions and a toddler).

My sub is between the the left dvd shelf and the tv stand

Audyssey is compensating for electrical delays in your sub by adding distance.

Yeah, the "Right" and "Left" inputs utilizes a crossover that has an adjustable low-pass frequency. According the manufacturer the input labeled "LFE" is the correct connection to use with an AVR (leaving aside their confusing choice of label).

I don't think it is necessarily a problem when the subwoofer's distance as computed by Audessey differs from the physical distance. What matters is whether it sounds right.

Must be some other circuitry still in line even though the "LPF is ignored?"

Yes, Ericthemidget, how does is SOUND?