"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 270

Originally Posted by audyssey

How many positions did you use for the calibration and where did you place the mic? Also, how are you determining that you still have peaks after MultEQ?

Originally Posted by JREwing

I followed the guidelines to a T. I used 8 positions, the mic was a foot from the back wall and well enough above the seat backs.

As for the how I determined the peaks, I'm using the test tone CD that came with my HSU VTF 3.3 and the RS analog meter w/ the compensation charts. Although I'm new at this and I'm going to try testing in max output vs max extension mode and see what the results are. I'll have to report back.

Originally Posted by David Aiken

The reason you don't see the word Audyssey in there is that Audyssey does not control bass management and that's what's being discussed in that post. Audyssey controls equalisation.

Choose which speakers you want to handle the bass (sub or speaker) and Audyssey will provide EQ if you want it to. You turn Audyssey on or off quite independently of the bass management option you choose and Audyssey works with all of the bass management options offered.

Originally Posted by audyssey

Aha! That is the problem. Please understand that it is physically impossible to use an SPL meter (of any brand) and sinusoidal test tones and hope to determine anything about frequency response. That method has no chance. You will not even be in the ballpark. The reason is that sinusoidal tones in a room suffer from standing waves. Just try moving the meter 6" while playing a sine wave and look at the needle. It can move by 10 dB or more.

Making changes to the EQ based on SPL meter measurement with CD tones is like shooting at flies in the dark.

If you followed the guidelines and took 8 measurements then you should have no problems. Are you hearing anything that may be wrong, or are you just going by the SPL meter measurements?

Originally Posted by JREwing

Setting aside any adjustments to EQ, I just want to find out how my frequency curve looks!! I'm considering either buying the Rives Audio test CD, or using the Room EQ wizard that I found on another forum. Will either of these give me reliable results? And to answer your question it does seem a little boomy in the midrange, and more directional than I was hoping.

Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson

REW will do it but you should use more than one mic position to sample positions in the region of, but not restricted to, the so-called listening position.

Originally Posted by pepar

Audyssey will set the sub's volume in line with the other channels whether there is more or less gain in the AVR or pre/pro and less or more gain in the sub. Either way, the sub ends up the same volume and interacts with the room the same.

I would definitely be looking, though, at circuitry onboard the sub other than a gain control and for a way to completely disengage it.

Originally Posted by kjgarrison

I am building an IB sub, so I don't have a sub yet,

when I do

How should I configure my Denon? This is what I thought, (EDIT: 'my settings should be') until now ...

LFE+Main
Small (even though I already know Large will be recommended)
Crossovers depending on recommendations of Audyssey (probably 60-80 for my fronts, 100 for center and surrounds ... the numbers don't really matter for the purpose of this discussion)
LFE Crossover 120 (This is what Denon calls it)

I thought LFE+Main only caused 'double bass' if speakers were set to Large. To me this means sub and speakers 'share' according to the crossovers chosen.

LFE only, seems to me, would mean just that: LFE only, with all of the bass going to the mains (except LFE).

Am I all mixed up .... again

Originally Posted by jason shep

Hi Kj,i run a denon avp-a1hd with an ib subwoofer & i use lfe+main as with denon this sends bass below chosen xover points from all channels to subwoofer

Originally Posted by Larry523

I'll take a stab at this (and probably get it wrong). Let's look at each combination and see what we get:

Mains - Large
Sub - LFE
In this setup, the mains run full-range, no bass is redirected to the sub from the L/R channels. The sub only gets the LFE channel. The crossover setting in this setup is ignored.

Mains - Large
Sub - LFE+Mains
In this setup, the mains run full-range as before, the sub gets the LFE channel. However, in this arrangement the frequencies below the mains crossover setting are sent the mains AND the sub. This is the so-called "double bass."

Mains - Small
Sub - LFE or LFE+Mains doesn't matter
Here, the mains only play frequencies above whatever their crossover is set to. Anything below the crossover is redirected to the sub. The sub plays the LFE channel and the redirected bass from the mains regardless of what you set it to.

Which way do you configure your Denon? Depends on your speakers, your room, and your personal preference. How low can your mains go, and how do they sound when they do? How good is your sub? I'll use my own setup as an example.

My Infinity Beta 50 mains do a very good job with bass. My sub, an Infinity CSW-10, is a pretty good one, but it's a little undersized for the room. Currently, I have my mains set to large, and the sub set to LFE+Mains, so the mains can help out the sub in my large room. However, I have a two Epik Tower subs on order and should be receiving them in another week or so. One of those should be adequate for my room, and two will be amazing! When they're hooked up, I'll set my Infinitys to small and let the Epiks handle all of the bass.

So it all depends on what you want/need. The Denon manual suggests trying your sub setup each way (LFE and LFE+Mains) and going with whichever gives you the most bass output, assuming you don't have too much bass already.

Hope this helps. If I confuzzled you further, my apologies!

Originally Posted by Gary J

I didn't see the word Audyssey in there. Shame too because there is a big difference in the way it handles bass to the sub as opposed to other speakers. Enough to make you think twice before using LFE+Main.

Originally Posted by David Aiken

Mixed up, yes, but that's not surprising given Denon's lack of clarity about what's going on with these settings. It took me several months to sort things out to my own satisfaction.

If you set the speaker to "Small", the bass below the crossover frequency always gets sent to the sub, regardless of whether the sub is set to "LFE" or "LFE+Main".

If the speaker is set to "Large", it gets run full range. With the sub set to "LFE", it handles no bass from the speaker. With the sub set to "LFE+Main" it handles bass from the speaker below the crossover frequency but the speaker is still being run full range.

Denon's Large/Small distinction is one between running the speaker full range or not.

The LFE/LFE+Main option only works for Large speakers. It does nothing for small speakers which always have their bass handled by the sub. With large speakers it simply offers the option of having the sub double the frequencies below the chosen crossover (LFE+Main) or having the sub not handle any bass for the speaker (LFE).

So what these settings really mean is:

Large/Small: This turns bass management on and off. Small speakers have their bass managed by the sub while large speakers do not.

LFE/LFE+Main: This is the "double bass" toggle for large speakers. LFE+Main turns double bass on for frequencies below the crossover you specify, and LFE turns it off. This option doesn't do anything with Small speakers. It only works for Large speakers.

The "Sub Crossover" is actually an LPF filter setting applying only to the content of the disc's LFE channel if it has one. It doesn't affect moving any part of the sound between the sub and the speakers. It simply controls the upper limit of LFE channel material being handled by the sub and the LFE channel is always handled by the sub if you have one.

So set the speakers to Small, choose a suitable crossover frequency, and set the "Sub Crossover" to 120 Hz and you should be hearing things as the mastering engineer intended. Of course there's still the question of personal taste and not everyone likes what the mastering engineer intended.

Originally Posted by JREwing

Ok well I guess I'll give the REW a whirl. Before I do that I'm having a heck of a time trying to level my sub w/ the main speakers. Audyssey resulted in my sub trim level set to 0db, but when I check it w/ Avia or DVE I get two different results.

Avia, limited band pink noise, left channel is 80 db, sub is 81db. I assume this is good b/c I was told the Avia disc is -4db dialnorm, so they are roughly 85 db. However I was also told that the RS meter is about 2-3db low on average for this kind of test, which makes the sub 3-4 db hot.

DVE, limited band pink noise but whole different story, it's is supposed to read 75db, the left channel reads 70db, and the sub reads 80db?

So accordingto DVE I'm 10db too hot, can anyone shed some light on this?

Originally Posted by Iron_Marshal

Can somebody please explain to me what are the implications of not applying any filter to the subwoofer, and a low resolution filter to the satellites as opposed to a mid-level filter.

Originally Posted by Iron_Marshal

Can somebody please explain to me what are the implications of not applying any filter to the subwoofer, and a low resolution filter to the satellites as opposed to a mid-level filter.

Originally Posted by Iron_Marshal

Thanks for the explanation. Below what frequencies will I get no room correction?

Originally Posted by Iron_Marshal

I'll be using the JBL ES series (es 20's, ES250C and ES250P subwoofer). I'm fairly new to this and somewhat concerned about proper bass setup. I guess this means I'll have to play around with different sub placements and trust my wife's ears (she's much more discerning acoustically) and pray I get it right then. Is there anything else I can try?

Originally Posted by audyssey

Manual EQ is not from Audyssey so everything is turned off. Why would you want to use it anyway? Audyssey MultEQ is already equalizing your subwoofer with several thousand control points in the filter. There is no way a BFD with a few bands can come close to that. So why not keep MultEQ on and have the benefits of Dynamic EQ?

Originally Posted by ATAD IO

Odyssey is giving me a phase error with my NHT classic 4 up front. I can skip but is there a way to verify proper phase. Has anyone had same experence with the 4's? I did verify the wires were connected correctly.

Originally Posted by ATAD IO

Odyssey is giving me a phase error with my NHT classic 4 up front. I can skip but is there a way to verify proper phase. Has anyone had same experence with the 4's? I did verify the wires were connected correctly.

Originally Posted by giomania

Homer must be turning in his grave.

Originally Posted by giomania

Chris, I was wondering if Audyssey works with active speakers? I was doing some research, and noticed there is a lot of circuitry in those speakers. Given the problems with subwoofer circuitry, I thought I would ask the question.

Thanks.

Mark

Originally Posted by Gary J

Learn how to spell Audyssey then read the Audyssey Step-by-Step Setup Guide.

Originally Posted by giomania

Chris, I was wondering if Audyssey works with active speakers? I was doing some research, and noticed there is a lot of circuitry in those speakers. Given the problems with subwoofer circuitry, I thought I would ask the question.

Thanks.

Mark

Originally Posted by giomania

Should we re-name it to the "Audyssey Odyssey Tour"?

Sorry, but I simply could not help myself.

Mark