"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 4

Eds,
Big thanks!!
I went to the store and listened to the 2807...and frankly, I'm not sure if the salesman knew what he was doing but...
We thought that we were listening to the Audyssey, when he pressed a single button, and the entire bass or the room full sound of music just dropped off. A lot more dramatic than what folks here have been describing about loss bass.
We also cycled through the other EQ settings.... and at the end I thought that the best option was no EQ. Without any EQ the soundstage was larger and more open.

Which doesn't make sense....so right now..if I have to make a decision, I would just get any decen Denon receiver with a 100w rating.

I wouldn't trust a demo of Audyssey at a store unless I witnessed or performed the calibration. Most stores cannot do proper wiring and setup, so I am suspicious of their implementation of such a sophisticated function as Audyssey EQ. There are, undoubtedly, exceptions but.....................

That's just my point. If the Audyssey will give me a fuller/better sound than without the EQ then I would get this receiver. The main thing that I'm aftering is the roll-of feature to tame off some brightness.

Otherwise I would pick up a refurb model like the 3805 or 2106 to get by until a newer receiver comes out that will handle HD or HDMI 1.3 or some sort of video upconversion.

For those wanting to EQ two subwoofers independently, there is a 2-channel Audyssey unit coming from SVS that uses all its processing power for low frequencies only (as opposed to being a full-range 2-channel EQ).

http://www.svsound.com/CES2007/SVS_AudyessyRelease.pdf

Sanjay

I agree with Kal that I would not trust any store to correctly setup Audyssey, or any of the other EQ systems like MCACC or YPAO. If you think about it, Audyssey is set up for a particular seating position (or group of positions) and a particular speaker configuration. Change any of these variables and you would dramatically impact the effectiveness of Audyssey. I remember when shopping for my receiver and asking one salesman, who was also the installer, what he thought of Audyssey, and this guy was pushing a Denon over similarly priced competitors. At first the salesman did not know what I was talking about, then said words to the effect "Oh yeah, the Denon has an automatic setup function". Feel bad for the people that count on this particular guy to correctly configure their systems. Unfortunately, this is probably more of the norm than the exception.

A good shop should give you some time with the 2807 in your home. Like speakers, that's probably the only way to know for sure whether it's what you want. You need to run the setup, several times, trying out all options, maybe even move your speakers, etc. and use your favorite material as a test. Figure on a full weekend to do that if you can. You've gotta live with your decision so take advantage of the store policy on returns. Hopefully they'll give you a week.

In my case, a pair of 2' french doors to the right of my right main were critical to the performance of my right main. Audyssey could deal with the doors either open or closed, but I had to decide which way to go before the installer went home (my case was the Sound EQ so I had to make a decision). In your case, you can re-set-up anytime, but you will want to know that the system will correct whatever such anomalies you have.

Well the shop is Best Buy's Magnolia...and I think I would have to buy it and return it within the 30 day return policy. I would hate doing that..really. But I've spent over $2K on speakers with them already.

I have a question for you Audyssey buffs.

Have you ever observed a sound stage that seems wider than your mains?

I definitely get that with 5 channel sound wherein the surrounds and mains blend to a pretty much seamless sound stage wrapping clear to the surrounds, but on several occasions I've heard what I thought was sound a foot or two wider than my mains (which are about 9 feet apart) when listing to a stereo source.

I'd ask. I think Magnolia lets speakers out on trial, hopefully they'll do the same with a receiver .. especially for a returning client. Good Luck.

Yes but I get it without Audyssey, as well. That said, Audyssey does help many sources in that regard.

Noah,

I have used something in the pre/pro to generate back channels a few times, but I think it was on DVDs with not much surround sound at all. I'll have to try it again.

Also, it occurs to me that with the 8 channel Audyssey Sound EQ, I don't necessarily have to give up one back channel. I can always forgo a filter on one of the back channels by bypassing the Sound EQ. One back channel will be tweaked by the Sound EQ and one won't, but I suspect back channel information is fleeting enough and non-critical enough that the benefit of back channels will still be there.

Harrison
___________________

For those of you interested, it looks like a couple of Pre/Pro's will be coming out with the Audyssey PRO (as opposed to Multi-EQ) version of their software. Currently I believe its only available in their separate equalizer. Here is part of the email I got back from Audyssey:
"Denon has a pre pro that will have our pro version. NAD also will have one that has our pro version. And Integra has not made any announcements yet But those units come out this summer. Hope that helps!"

Any word on whether the next generation of receivers from Denon and others, coming in the summer/fall, will sport improvements to MultiEQ XT? Or perhaps even offer MultiEQ Pro?

Does Audyssey provide a parameter (i.e., will it work) for setups where there is a center, two fronts, and 2 surrounds; but no sub? My wife doesn't want another speaker in the room, and my fronts/amp provide excellent/clean coverage to 30Hz (they will actually go down to about 26 Hz).

I've been testing my audyssey auto setup on my denon 4306 for a while, i find that dialog are too bright on audyssey and flat EQ, and bass is not very good. I got best results with Front EQ but sound can be brighter a lil bit. All my speakers are set at small via auto setup, only thing i changed is crossover frequency at 80 for all speakers except sub at 120, and i adjust sw and surrounds while running test tone with my spl meter.
When i go to parameter check in auto setup, in crossover my speakers are not all at 80 but i set them to be, not sure why. Anyway am i the only one with good results with front EQ while listening to DTS, dolby digital, or multi channel pcm via blue ray or hd-dvd???
I prefer Front to EQ off.

Not needed. Audyssey will try to optimally correct whatever your speaker configuration is.

Kal, one more question: Can Audyssey optimally correct a 2-speaker system?

When I got my Denon AVR 2807, I was using a 2 channel system and the Denon's Audyssey function worked fine with only 2 speakers. Then I added a sub. It worked that into the mix nicely. I then added 2 surrounds. Once again it worked fine. Finally I added a centre speaker to get to a full 5.1 channel setup and it worked just as well with that.

I don't know if Kal has actually tried using Audyssey with everything between 2.0 and 5.1 as I have in the last 5 months in my AVR setup. Regardless of whether he is or isn't speaking from practical experience with Audyssey in a 2 channel setup, he's right and he couldn't be wrong on this point. Audyssey tries to correct your configuration, whatever that is, in a manner which the Audyssey people regard as optimal.

Whether or not you regard the results as 'optimal' is another question. There are different versions of Audyssey and the more advanced ones should do better than the basic version which is what I have a little experience with. Also, what counts as 'optimally correct' for one person may not for another. There are individual differences in the sort of sound that different people prefer. If you happen to like what Audyssey does, you're more likely to regard what it does as 'optimal' than if you don't. There's more than a few posts in this around these boards from people complaining that they don't like the results they get with Audyssey so there's no way anyone can guarantee that you'll like what it does for you.

What we can say is that it works just as well with 2 channels as with other configurations. Whether you will like the result or not is another question but I would suggest if you try it that you live with the result for a week or so before making up your mind. It will sound different to the untreated sound and we sometimes find that we don't initially respond positively to changes, even when they are for the better. We often find our impressions changing as we become more familiar with something new and do come to realise that it is an improvement over what went before, but that can take some time so do keep and open mind and give things a week or so before reaching any final conclusions. You may find your response changes during that time.

David Aiken

David,

Thank you very very much for sharing your experience. Now I am one step closer to Audyssey!

So if a system with 5.1 configuration is optimally calibrated, would it be optimal in 2.0 channel mode? We can just focus on the objective sense of the word "optimal".

Here's a great review by Phil Hinton with some photos of the Multi EQ with graphs on the AV Forum in the UK. If you think it's expensive in the states, check out the UK price.

It equalizes each speaker individually over its particular bandwidth. Now, if you use your bass management differently, as I do, for different sources, that may mean that the EQ will be set for the one in use when the measurements were done.

As for David Aiken's comments, he is right that (1) many people have not liked the results of Audyssey EQ and (2) that the Audyssey EQ makes certain assumptions about what is optimal. Some people don't like a flat frequency response (and that's OK).

In fact, what Audyssey can do is limited by the hardware in the processor and, while the hardware in AVRs varies, it is, in all cases so far, less potent than that in their stand-alone EQ box. Consequently, what Audyssey chooses to do with the available horse-power may not be what an informed individual might choose had he the options. For example, would I eschew a good number of MF or HF filters for more at the LF? Would I prefer those results? Mebbe. Mebbe not.

In other words, when one uses an auto-set-up system like the Audyssey, one is subject to the choices made in the design. (Contrast this with Meridian's almost too flexible and complex room correction.)

And, no, I have not tried it with all possible combinations/permutations of channels. I have found that (1) I do not get the same objective results with every repetition and that (2) the subjective results vary with the associated equipment.

Kal,

Thank you very very much for your explanation.

Now I realize that one has to pick 2.0 or 5.1 for calibration, and switch Audyssey either on or off depending on the mode. I guess that one could wish for a couple of saved profiles or perhaps use a Harmony remote to do the switching. Has anyone here done that?

Auto setup has a mind of its own. If Audyssey included a system configuration before use, such as allocating filters to LF, MF and HF, that would be a plus. That would allow one to configure either for 1, 2 or 3 filters for LF, with remaining filters to MF and HF. Complexity does increase with flexibility, and the level of product support that the manufacturer would face will increase with complexity too. Not that I care about their problem. It is somewhat of a deterrent, I think, to the designer.

Why would you have to do that? Are you planning on changing your system's bass management when switching from 2-channel sources to 5.1-channel material?

Sanjay

I don't want to take words out of swwg's mouth but I would be surprised if his answer is no. People typically will pump up the bass for movies.

Sanjay,

Yes. I am thinking if I would be able to play 2 channels without the sub and still get the objective optimal Audyssey settings. For 5.1 movies, I am definitely going to use the sub.

Nick,

I'm assuming that when the subwoofer is being used, you'll have the front L/R speakers crossed over at some point; when not using the sub, you'll be running those same speakers full range. Yes?

In that case, you're right, you would need more than one configuration saved in memory. However, if you do end up getting the Audyssey unit, consider running 2.1 instead of 2.0. IF Audyssey can get a satisfactory blend between your front L/R speakers and your subwoofer, you may not feel the need to turn off the sub when listening to 2-channel material.

Sanjay

"I'm assuming that when the subwoofer is being used, you'll have the front L/R speakers crossed over at some point; when not using the sub, you'll be running those same speakers full range. Yes?

In that case, you're right, you would need more than one configuration saved in memory."

That may not be the case if he disables the sub in the receiver instead of just turning it off.

I believe Audyssey remembers the full response of the main speakers, which is why you can change XO freq after running setup.

Not sure whether this extends to disabling the sub.

swwg,
if you are using Audyssey within a Denon receiver, you can configure the Denon such that for two channel listening the sub is disabled and the L/R speakers can be set for whatever xover works best for them, while still keeping a separate 5.1/7.1 setup with the sub enabled and different xovers for the speakers. In either setting, Audyssey can be enabled or disabled. Once configured, the receiver will default to the proper configuration, depending on whether you are inputting a stereo signal or a multi-channel signal.