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"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 679

post #20341 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Where have you attached the mic?

Pro mic attached to pre-amp (and yes power is on to it).
Plug into XLR->RCA -> front panel V.aux L audio in.

Mike
post #20342 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post

Pro mic attached to pre-amp (and yes power is on to it).
Plug into XLR->RCA -> front panel V.aux L audio in.

Mike

It now goes in the back. I don't have the manual handy, but I remember plugging it into the front and getting the same message. It *used to* go in the front . . .

Aux 2, left channel ... I think .. and you;ll need to go into source and select the analog.
post #20343 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

It now goes in the back. I don't have the manual handy, but I remember plugging it into the front and getting the same message. It *used to* go in the front . . .

Aux 2, left channel ... I think .. and you;ll need to go into source and select the analog.

Really?

Maybe I was more quiet, because now measure 1 worked!
It gave me a speaker polarity comment box (same as I got with the AVR's XT eq in the past).
On to measure 2...

Mike
post #20344 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post

Really?

Maybe I was more quiet, because now measure 1 worked!
It gave me a speaker polarity comment box (same as I got with the AVR's XT eq in the past).
On to measure 2...

Mike

Which Pro software version? For me, the latest needed to be in the back. But hey, if it's working . . .
post #20345 of 70906
Hello everyone and Chris.
So am I correct in assuming that if you own a high end sub with an 8 band room Eq done from one listening position, you are better off using Audyssey to calibrate in the positions you desire 4-8 I am personally a fan of 4 In a Y shape (the first position being the main listening position and the centre of the Y) So you let the Audyssey run then you run your * band auto room Eq on your Sub after? Or is it the other way round. I am asking for a reference point of view here not preference. I.E what is more likely to cancel the other out Audyssey first or Sub Eq first?
Many thanks all. and Chris
Justin
post #20346 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

It now goes in the back. I don't have the manual handy, but I remember plugging it into the front and getting the same message. It *used to* go in the front . . .

Aux 2, left channel ... I think .. and you;ll need to go into source and select the analog.

Hi Jeff,

I believe that Mike has a Denon 5308CI and the Audyssey Pro documentation says:

Quote:


Connect the mini-XLR cable from the microphone preamp LINE
OUT to the Denon front panel “V.AUX” left channel audio input
using the mini-XLR-to-RCA Adapter

For Onkyo's it says:

Quote:


Connect the mini-XLR cable from the microphone preamp LINE
OUT to the Onkyo back panel “AUX 1” audio input using the mini-
XLR-to-RCA Adapter

Larry
post #20347 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Which Pro software version? For me, the latest needed to be in the back. But hey, if it's working . . .

v3.2.628.465
Denon 5308CI

Mike
post #20348 of 70906
Audyssey Pro kit EQ Calibration
Try #1

For full information see post #1 in my HT Thread (see my signature)

Fixed Features
Room:
-- Dedicated HT room - designed by Rives Audio (Level 1+) with some modficiations (eg front partial wall added after design)
–- Room dimensions - 22' 4" x 17' 6" x 7'7” height (ceiling diffusers hang down 3”)
AVR: Denon 5308CI
Front: Rocket RS1000Sig
Center: Rocket RSC200Sig "Bigfoot"
Sides: Rocket RSS300
Back: Rocket RS250MkII

Variables:
Measures: 8 (at each seat) -- back extreme L/R seats are off axis from L/R tweeters!
RS1000Sig toe in: aimed at center
RS1000Sig F/R woofers: in
RSC200Sig Center: tilted up toward ear height
Sub position: front left corner
Target Sound Options:
-- Mid range compensation: off
-- High frequency roll off: #1
Mic: ~1.5 ft from back of leather chair
Measure #1: front, mid (right)
Chairs:
-- Front - measured as fully reclined
-- Back - measured not reclined


First try.
More positions and no measures outside of L/R speakers when I have time and the kids are not around (or awake).
I'll try playing with MRC on/off too.

Mike

PS - Next stupid question. Other than saving certificate as a PDF, how do you cut and paste for displaying on the forum?

 

Audyssey Customer Certificate 11-06-09.pdf 147.1689453125k . file
post #20349 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post


First try.
More positions and no measures outside of L/R speakers when I have time and the kids are not around (or awake).
I'll try playing with MRC on/off too.

Hi Mike,

Did I see the word "Large" under the front L and R speakers? Noooooooo....
Your data is a great example of why it's better to turn bass management on (i.e. set to Small). See that big bump at 35 Hz (probably from one of your room dimensions being 17' or so)? Now look down at the beautifully flat subwoofer curve and imagine that bumpy content being redirected from the speakers to the sub where it belongs!

Maybe I should start the "if-you-have-a-sub-and-set-your-speakers-to-large-you-owe-$1" rule.

More of my rants on this topic here
post #20350 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

Hi Mike,

Did I see the word "Large" under the front L and R speakers? Noooooooo....
Your data is a great example of why it's better to turn bass management on (i.e. set to Small). See that big bump at 35 Hz (probably from one of your room dimensions being 17' or so)? Now look down at the beautifully flat subwoofer curve and imagine that bumpy content being redirected from the speakers to the sub where it belongs!

Maybe I should start the "if-you-have-a-sub-and-set-your-speakers-to-large-you-owe-$1" rule.

More of my rants on this topic here

Chris -

I knew that.
I was running through it for the first time quickly before my wife/child window of opportunity ran out and left things at the Audyssey default settings.
My L/R should be set to "small"/80Hz without Audyssey.

I think option #2 (from Audyssey) was 40Hz.
My predeliction would be 80Hz, but I think that was the last choice suggested.

I'm sure I'll be making a few changes:
- less "wide" at rear seating postion based on L/R toe in
- L/R to "small" or 40/60/80 Hz crossover
- more measurements
- decrease "vol/gain" on sub -- given -12 dB gain via Audyssey measurement (correct?)
- etc.

Anyone else using the Rocket RS1K's/200 combo and Pro kit?

Thanks for the comments.


Mike
post #20351 of 70906
I got some interesting results tonight running Audyssey with just my left front, right front and sub. I ran it using the 886's rca ouputs as well as XLR

With the XLRs I got the exact same results I got when I ran all 7 channels. Audyssey set the mains to -12db. I checked it with the SPL meter and both channels measured 71db.

With the RCAs I got -7db for the left and -6db for the right. I measured again with the SPL meter and got right around 71db. I assume that they not being exactly the same has to do with the +/- 2db accuracy of the Audyssey mic and the SPL meter. I am not concerned about that.

I expected the RCAs to be lower than the XLRs. I believe Emotiva rates the XLRs at 4db hotter than the RCAs. My results are fairly close to that so no surprises there.

What I am concerned about is why Audyssey is setting the front channels at least 4db lower than the reference 75db. I am getting these same results every time regardless of how many channels I run. The fronts are being set lower than they should be. Not just lower according to the SPL meter but I can hear they are lower.

At this point do I:
A: Set each channel manually using the SPL meter and forget about it?
B: Try to borrow someone's mic to see if I get different results?
C: Insert any other ideas here!
post #20352 of 70906
Hi Mike,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post

My L/R should be set to "small"/80Hz without Audyssey.

I think option #2 (from Audyssey) was 40Hz.
My predeliction would be 80Hz, but I think that was the last choice suggested.

Remember that in the MultEQ Pro software the algorithm in recommending the crossover frequency is much more advanced than in the built-in version. It first finds the -3 dB roll off point, but then performs a search of other higher frequencies and internally combines them with the measured response of each speaker to see what combination gives the flattest (amplitude and phase) at the crossover. So, the numbers you see listed are in decreasing order of recommendations. The ones at the top of the list produced the best amplitude and phase blend at the crossover.
post #20353 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by beekermartin View Post

At this point do I:
A: Set each channel manually using the SPL meter and forget about it?
B: Try to borrow someone's mic to see if I get different results?
C: Insert any other ideas here!

My theory still is that what the mic is measuring in MultEQ is different than what you are measuring with the SPL meter. The nature of these speakers is such that this is quite likely. In the MultEQ measurement you are collecting a time domain response that depends heavily on reflections and direct sound. It is analyzed and a level estimation is being made. In the SPL meter measurement you have no time domain information and you are getting a number using the RMS detector in the meter. So, it's entirely possible that both are "right", but that the asymmetry in the room/boundaries are causing the MultEQ calculation to be biased lower.

It's just a theory... My vote is for A.
post #20354 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

My theory still is that what the mic is measuring in MultEQ is different than what you are measuring with the SPL meter. The nature of these speakers is such that this is quite likely. In the MultEQ measurement you are collecting a time domain response that depends heavily on reflections and direct sound. It is analyzed and a level estimation is being made. In the SPL meter measurement you have no time domain information and you are getting a number using the RMS detector in the meter. So, it's entirely possible that both are "right", but that the asymmetry in the room/boundaries are causing the MultEQ calculation to be biased lower.

It's just a theory... My vote is for A.

Chris, if you get a chance please weigh in on the SPL meter debate. I know the Audyssey mic was designed to be used pointed straight up in the air, but I have never seen an SPL meter that gave instructions to measure sound by pointing the SPL meter UP in the air. I can't imagine how if one were outdoors and wanted to measure a sound source in DB's how you could get any accurate measurement other then POINTING IT AT, the sound source itself. While indoors measuring speakers one might get a close measurement at decent volumes but I believe the design of most SPL meters and including mine and it's included instructions, is to point it at the sound source itself. You must have much more experience with this then most. Thanks.
post #20355 of 70906
Do the 2009 receivers from Denon and Onkyo still suffer with the Volume IC chip limitation with Audyssey engaged highlited here among other places:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/p...-tests-results

Also does Audyssey have any plans to offer a house curve, as the current curve in my Onkyo 805 makes the bass quite thin. I like how Audyssey smoothes out the bass response but there is too much roll-off from 100hz and compensating with increasing the bass control trim or bumping up the subwoofer volume is suboptimal. When I turn Audyssey off I get a whole lot more shaking from the Buttkicker (high cutoff 50hz), so it is really rolling off the lower frequencies.
post #20356 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mactavish View Post

Chris, if you get a chance please weigh in on the SPL meter debate. I know the Audyssey mic was designed to be used pointed straight up in the air, but I have never seen an SPL meter that gave instructions to measure sound by pointing the SPL meter UP in the air. I can't imagine how if one were outdoors and wanted to measure a sound source in DB's how you could get any accurate measurement other then POINTING IT AT, the sound source itself. While indoors measuring speakers one might get a close measurement at decent volumes but I believe the design of most SPL meters and including mine and it's included instructions, is to point it at the sound source itself. You must have much more experience with this then most. Thanks.

The SPL mic is omnidirectional and it uses an RMS detector to measure sound pressure level. It doesn't matter which way it is pointed whether you are indoors or outdoors. It should be used by extending one's arm out away from the body and not standing behind it as that could influence the readings.

The Audyssey mic is calibrated to be flat at grazing incidence, but it is measuring a frequency response. From the frequency response measurement one can calculate SPL by looking at the proper range and applying the proper weighting.
post #20357 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemet View Post

Do the 2009 receivers from Denon and Onkyo still suffer with the Volume IC chip limitation

yes

Quote:


Also does Audyssey have any plans to offer a house curve, as the current curve in my Onkyo 805 makes the bass quite thin.

Products that support MultEQ Pro can be tweaked to your liking using the Target Curve editor.

Quote:


When I turn Audyssey off I get a whole lot more shaking from the Buttkicker (high cutoff 50hz), so it is really rolling off the lower frequencies.

Hmm.. it sounds like you have your speakers set to the default "Full Range" that the 805 (not Audyssey) sets. Is that the case?
post #20358 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

yes

Thank you so much for the reply, I shall have to wait for the 2010 models then that hopefully have more models that allow 11 channels with Wide&Height on the same time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

Products that support MultEQ Pro can be tweaked to your liking using the Target Curve editor.

Thank you for the tip, I'll check if the Onkyo805 allows for MultEQ Pro ( I don't think it does - only MultEQ XT )

Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

Hmm.. it sounds like you have your speakers set to the default "Full Range" that the 805 (not Audyssey) sets. Is that the case?

By default the reciever would set them to "Full Range" but I changed it to 80hz and ended up liking crossing the front 3 speakers at 70hz best to blend in better with the subwoofer. I have used Audyssey for 2 years, and am trying to get the best sound, have set up bass traps in room corners and treated early side wall, back wall and ceiling reflection points.
post #20359 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post

v3.2.628.465
Denon 5308CI

Mike

Larry got me. I only read the Onkyo instructions.
post #20360 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post

Other than saving certificate as a PDF, how do you cut and paste for displaying on the forum?

Screen capture from the graph displayed in MultEQ Pro (or SubEQ). I have never generated a PDF.
post #20361 of 70906
Hello, I just performed a calibration with my Denon 4810ci on 4 positions. I was not impressed with the adjustment and my center channel is set to full range creating distortion becouse of low freq. What went wrong?
post #20362 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by fab68 View Post

What went wrong?

You did not follow the guide in the first post of this thread.
post #20363 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by fab68 View Post

Hello, I just performed a calibration with my Denon 4810ci on 4 positions. I was not impressed with the adjustment and my center channel is set to full range creating distortion becouse of low freq. What went wrong?

Read and follow the Guide (in my signature).
post #20364 of 70906
After you read and comprehend posting # 5701, you need to sit down and relax and pop a cool one, it is an excellent posting but a long one.
post #20365 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

Hi Mike,



Remember that in the MultEQ Pro software the algorithm in recommending the crossover frequency is much more advanced than in the built-in version. It first finds the -3 dB roll off point, but then performs a search of other higher frequencies and internally combines them with the measured response of each speaker to see what combination gives the flattest (amplitude and phase) at the crossover. So, the numbers you see listed are in decreasing order of recommendations. The ones at the top of the list produced the best amplitude and phase blend at the crossover.

Thanks.

So despite option/rec #1 being "full", you would suggest I pick option #2 (40Hz I think) for my L/R if that is the Audyssey rec?

The Rocket 1000Signature's have a powered woofer (not subwoofer) integrated (that can also be tweaked/gain changed).

Separate question:
I was considering getting two subs in the future.
If my current Audyssey gain on sub is -12 and the on sub vol/gain is only at 1/3-1/2 (I'll have to check to confirm).
Then I should likely turn the gain down a little for measures, and ??? may not have that much improvement in getting additional subs (at least vis-a-vis gain)?


Mike
post #20366 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post


So despite option/rec #1 being "full", you would suggest I pick option #2 (40Hz I think) for my L/R if that is the Audyssey rec?

Yes. The Full Range choice is there because the manufacturer requires us to follow their rules. If there is a subwoofer in the system then all speakers should be set to Small so that bass management can operate as intended and the benefit of the 8x improvement in the subwoofer filters can be applied to all bass content.

Quote:
The Rocket 1000Signature's have a powered woofer (not subwoofer) integrated (that can also be tweaked/gain changed).

That helps with improving the headroom by offloading the low frequency duties from the AVR, but unless you tell the AVR that this is a subwoofer you won't get the benefit of the 8x improvement in low frequency resolution.

Quote:
I was considering getting two subs in the future.
If my current Audyssey gain on sub is -12 and the on sub vol/gain is only at 1/3-1/2 (I'll have to check to confirm).
Then I should likely turn the gain down a little for measures, and ??? may not have that much improvement in getting additional subs (at least vis-a-vis gain)?

The benefit of two subs is that you drive the low frequencies in the room from two different points and thus achieve smoother response. I am not quite sure what the volume setting has to do with this... Audyssey will create multi-thousand point correction filters that will be applied to the two subs to flatten their response. The purpose of setting the volume on them is to make sure they play at the same level as the other speakers (as required by the content).
post #20367 of 70906
Hi Folks

I am a newb, both to this site and to av receivers et.al. I just purchased a 1610 to replace a garbage all in one that came with my t.v. (samsung DLP) Hooking up a cabledvr, xbox 360 (non Hdmi version) and Ps3. Speakers: Polk 2350 sats 6250 center and psw250 sub. Here's my dilemma: read all the great info on Audyssey and would love to tweak once I learn the ropes- but I need to get this up and running in 2 days- son's favorite videogame coming out then. Is there a fast track way to get Audyssey set up , so at least I get everything working- and then I can go back and re-run/tweak when I have more time?

thanks in advance for any advice to an old newb like me
post #20368 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldskip View Post

Hi Folks

I am a newb, both to this site and to av receivers et.al. I just purchased a 1610 to replace a garbage all in one that came with my t.v. (samsung DLP) Hooking up a cabledvr, xbox 360 (non Hdmi version) and Ps3. Speakers: Polk 2350 sats 6250 center and psw250 sub. Here's my dilemma: read all the great info on Audyssey and would love to tweak once I learn the ropes- but I need to get this up and running in 2 days- son's favorite videogame coming out then. Is there a fast track way to get Audyssey set up , so at least I get everything working- and then I can go back and re-run/tweak when I have more time?

thanks in advance for any advice to an old newb like me

I better jump in first before you start getting advice about moving furniture, holding your breath during measurements, and other tweaks

The fast track method is to simply connect the mic, place it in the center of your listening area and start MultEQ. Then move it to the left about 2' and measure again. Then to the right of the center spot about 2'. After that move forward about 2' and take three more measurements parallel to the first three. If you have time take the last two near the first center one (about 1' apart).

Try to avoid placing the mic near walls and in seats that are off to the side (even if people will listen from there).

Before you start set the lowpass filter on your sub to the highest frequency it allows and leave it there permanently. Set the level on the back of the sub to just below the midpoint so that the 1610 doesn't run out of range trying to set the level internally.

Finally, when finished go to the Audyssey settings and look for Dynamic EQ Reference Offset. It is set to 0 by default because that is correct for movies. But, for video games that are not mixed at film reference you will most likely have to set the offset to 10.

That should do it. Let us know how it works out.
post #20369 of 70906
Ah yes, the Reader's Digest version of the setup guide.
post #20370 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

Remember that in the MultEQ Pro software the algorithm in recommending the crossover frequency is much more advanced than in the built-in version. It first finds the -3 dB roll off point, but then performs a search of other higher frequencies and internally combines them with the measured response of each speaker to see what combination gives the flattest (amplitude and phase) at the crossover. So, the numbers you see listed are in decreasing order of recommendations. The ones at the top of the list produced the best amplitude and phase blend at the crossover.

One related issue is that AudysseyPro will sometimes offer a different hierarchy of crossover frequencies for the two speakers of a pair (FR vs. FL, SR vs. SL, for examples) even though the AVR or prepro can only set this frequency by pair. If so, one can have AudysseyPro generate projected results for each option and the user can determine which single setting gives a better combined result before downloading and inserting the settings. Notice, one needs to do this before one leaves AudysseyPro as the actual filters generated are influenced by the choice.
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