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"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 1090

post #32671 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

+1. I was planning on calibrating my 4311 this evening!

Edit...

I just looked and v3.4 is out there now!!! Hopefully the ability to purchase a license will be out there shortly as well!!!

Thanks Chris.

It just appeared in the last 15 minutes. No manual . . yet .. for the 4311.
post #32672 of 70896
Hello, can someone please explain this Audyssey setup:

Speaker specifications:

Main speakers: 30 - 40.000 Hz
Center: 35 - 40.000 Hz
Surround: 30 - 40.000 Hz
Surround Back: 50 - 35.000 Hz
High sat: 75 - 30.000
Wide sat: 75 - 30.000


This is how Audyssey (xt32) is setting the Xover after the run:

Main speakers: Fullband
Center: 90 Hz
Surround: 40 Hz
Surround Back: 55 Hz
High sat: 120 Hz
Wide sat: 130 Hz


Settings below 40 Hz is called "Fullband" for the Integra 70.2
What i do not understand is why only the Fronts are set as Fullband, as the surround speakers and center are exact the same model and brand as the fronts, and with just 5 Hz differents for the center !
But this is set to 90 instade of 35 Hz

Also the wide and high speakers are the same brand and model as the front and center, only smoller.
Why this very big Audyssey differents compared to the specifications of 75 Hz for the sat speakers ?
It seems Audyssey has 2 sets correct, the fronts and the surround back.
I tried several times but its allways the same results, even a run with or without sub.

If i would do this by hand i would set:

Fronts: Fullband
Center: Fullband
Surround: Fullband
Surround Back: 55 Hz
Wide: 75 Hz
High: 75 Hz

Is Audyssey wrong here............. ?
post #32673 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post

Hello, can someone please explain this Audyssey setup:

Speaker specifications:

Main speakers: 30 - 40.000 Hz
Center: 35 - 40.000 Hz
Surround: 30 - 40.000 Hz
Surround Back: 50 - 35.000 Hz
High sat: 75 - 30.000
Wide sat: 75 - 30.000


This is how Audyssey (xt32) is setting the Xover after the run:

Main speakers: Fullband
Center: 90 Hz
Surround: 40 Hz
Surround Back: 55 Hz
High sat: 120 Hz
Wide sat: 130 Hz


Settings below 40 Hz is called "Fullband" for the Integra 70.2
What i do not understand is why only the Fronts are set as Fullband, as the surround speakers and center are exact the same model and brand as the fronts, and with just 5 Hz differents for the center !
But this is set to 90 instade of 35 Hz

Also the wide and high speakers are the same brand and model as the front and center, only smoller.
Why this very big Audyssey differents compared to the specifications of 75 Hz for the sat speakers ?
It seems Audyssey has 2 sets correct, the fronts and the surround back.
I tried several times but its allways the same results, even a run with or without sub.

If i would do this by hand i would set:

Fronts: Fullband
Center: Fullband
Surround: Fullband
Surround Back: 55 Hz
Wide: 75 Hz
High: 75 Hz

Is Audyssey wrong here............. ?

I'd raise the L&R to 90Hz to match the center. I'd raise the all surrounds to 80Hz.

Speaker specs don't ... matter. It's how they perform .. in your room. But there are no "Fullband" speakers, as far as I'm concerned. At least none that most can afford.

Jeff
post #32674 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony A. View Post

... on a side note, all of my speakers are set to around -8db. if i change all these values across the board equally, to say -2db, will that change the reference volume setting for audyssey? i know that the cound will be much louder at 0db MV, but will it screw up any audyssey settings like dynamic eq?

If you change all the volumes up by 6dB, your reference volume will now be reached when the master volume is -6dB. Here is one of Chris's comments about this, I'm sure you can find more with some searching.
post #32675 of 70896
I need anyone's opinion about these graphs of my sw. They are just moved to different positions in my living room. Which one would you say is the better of the 3, or should I throw all of them out and keep trying to find a good one? THERE IS DYNEQ ON (I'm bad).

A little off the subj., but if Aud. sets my crossovers for the mains at 80hz, is there much overlap of the signal with the sw-where will the mains actually pickup the signal and the sw stop playing? Also, with a LPF set to 120hz, will the sw actually play the signal at 120hz while the mains are playing something between 80-120hz?

Thanks for the help.
LL
post #32676 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by perritterd View Post

... if Aud. sets my crossovers for the mains at 80hz, is there much overlap of the signal with the sw-where will the mains actually pickup the signal and the sw stop playing? Also, with a LPF set to 120hz, will the sw actually play the signal at 120hz while the mains are playing something between 80-120hz...

See the posts made on the last page re: LFE LPF starting here. With speakers set to small (as all should be) and LFE LPF set to 120, all the LFE will be played by, and only by, the sub. The freqs below the satellite crossover (ex 80) will be sent to the sub, but this is not LFE content, it is the content of those satellite channels, for ex, FR, CC, etc. So there are no problem "overlap" freqs.
post #32677 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by perritterd View Post

I need anyone's opinion about these graphs of my sw. They are just moved to different positions in my living room. Which one would you say is the better of the 3, or should I throw all of them out and keep trying to find a good one?

The green one looks easily the best, and quite serviceable even if you apply no EQ at all other than a LPF at 100 Hz.
post #32678 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

The green one looks easily the best, and quite serviceable even if you apply no EQ at all other than a LPF at 100 Hz.

Agreed. Having a gently sloping response is much better than any that have peaks and dips. But... I suspect these measurements are from a single mic and so not really indicative of what's actually going on in that region. Green is certainly a good starting point.
post #32679 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

+1. I was planning on calibrating my 4311 this evening!

Edit...

I just looked and v3.4 is out there now!!! Hopefully the ability to purchase a license will be out there shortly as well!!!

Thanks Chris.

Removed.
post #32680 of 70896
After spending a few weeks fiddling with the latest Audyssey (MultEQ XT32) with an the Onkyo NR5008, I would like to note a few observations (only applies to 2 channel listening).

Note:

My front wall (corners included) and side walls (first reflection point only) are well treated while about 25% of my back wall (half of one corner is treated) is treated. Finally, my ceiling is bare (sadly). All treatments are bass traps.

Here's my setup:
Accuphase DP57 -> Onkyo NR5008 -> Adam S3As and Velodyne DLS-5000R

Observations:

1) After every calibration by Audyssey, I would measure the in room response with REW and RS SPL meter to see the FR from 20-800Hz. Audyssey always roll off my bass by about 5db so I always have to manually adjust my bass trim level after calibration to compensate for the roll off.

2) Audyssey successfully eliminated some bass peaks while the nulls were brought up by a few DBs which brought out more clarity in the bass region. I also noticed a minor improvement on soundstage depth.

3) This is where I find Audyssey unacceptable. On quite a few recordings with Audyssey engaged, I heard crackles (distortion) on my speakers on certain parts of the music which mostly happened on highs. I'm surprised by this since I know the Audyssey reference curve rolls off the highs.

Chris, do you have any idea why the crackles happen with Audyssey engaged?
post #32681 of 70896
Chris, Roger, and SoundofMind, thank you for the responses. Appreciate very much. I'm definitely playing around with it more tomorrow. Chris, I understand your desire that there be more than a single listening position for measurements, but how does that help get a better response if 95% of my listening/watching movies is from a single position. My room is so acoustically poor, that, I'm lucky to find a single acceptable spot that is OK for the SW at all! Do you believe it's better to avg. the room with the SW and use that vs. 1 good spot that somewhat works for that listening position?

Thanks guys,

Bob
post #32682 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

Do you mean to the email that came in 3 minutes ago? Sorry for being late... Licenses are available as far as we can see from this end.

Chris,

I may be doing something wrong, but I don't see the 4311 as one of the choices on the pull-down menu (see attached).

Please point me in the right direction.

Thanks,
Jerry
LL
post #32683 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Chris,

I may be doing something wrong, but I don't see the 4311 as one of the choices on the pull-down menu (see attached).

Please point me in the right direction.

Thanks,
Jerry

Hi Jerry,
That's so odd. We see it here. Perhaps a browser cache/refresh issue? We are investigating...
post #32684 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Chris,

I may be doing something wrong, but I don't see the 4311 as one of the choices on the pull-down menu (see attached).

Please point me in the right direction.

Thanks,
Jerry
Hi Jerry,
Can you please try again after clearing the cache in your browser? Here is what I see on my screen.

 

ck screen.pdf 225.830078125k . file
post #32685 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

Hi Jerry,
Can you please try again after clearing the cache in your browser? Here is what I see on my screen.

Chris,

It's all good now. I have purchased the license key and will be starting my Pro calibration in a few minutes!

Thanks for your quick response.

Jerry
post #32686 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by perritterd View Post

Chris, Roger, and SoundofMind, thank you for the responses. Appreciate very much. I'm definitely playing around with it more tomorrow. Chris, I understand your desire that there be more than a single listening position for measurements, but how does that help get a better response if 95% of my listening/watching movies is from a single position. My room is so acoustically poor, that, I'm lucky to find a single acceptable spot that is OK for the SW at all! Do you believe it's better to avg. the room with the SW and use that vs. 1 good spot that somewhat works for that listening position?

Thanks guys,

Bob

Hi Bob,
The key thing to understand is that a listening seat and a mic position are not the same thing. What reaches your ears is the result of a spatially varying response--particularly at low frequencies. So, even if there is only one listener that never moves you will always get better room measurement (and correction) data by sampling multiple points around that seat.
post #32687 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Chris,

It's all good now. I have purchased the license key and will be starting my Pro calibration in a few minutes!

Thanks for your quick response.

Jerry

I just purchased mine too... I still have to mount my height speakers though...
post #32688 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonboy403 View Post

Observations:

1) After every calibration by Audyssey, I would measure the in room response with REW and RS SPL meter to see the FR from 20-800Hz. Audyssey always roll off my bass by about 5db so I always have to manually adjust my bass trim level after calibration to compensate for the roll off.

not sure what you mean by "rolls off my bass by about 5 dB". Is the level too low (how are you determining that?) or is there a roll off slope that you are measuring.

Quote:


3) This is where I find Audyssey unacceptable. On quite a few recordings with Audyssey engaged, I heard crackles (distortion) on my speakers on certain parts of the music which mostly happened on highs. I'm surprised by this since I know the Audyssey reference curve rolls off the highs.

Chris, do you have any idea why the crackles happen with Audyssey engaged?

This is almost certainly an indication that there is problem with one (or more) of your speaker drivers. Audyssey is trying to apply a roll off, but if the tweeter is not functioning correctly it will still have to apply boost to achieve that. A scraping or damaged tweeter is the most likely cause of this noise. You should be able to verify this by turning Audyssey off completely and then turning up the treble control as high as it goes.
post #32689 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickwin View Post

Does Audyssey only allow the crossover of the main speakers to be as high as the subwoofers upper -3db point? I would have guessed that the upper 3db point of my sub would be around 120hz (but it could be much higher), and that is why I was concerned about the 120-150hz of the mains and 120-200hz of the surrounds, it seems like that frequency range could just be lost if the subwoofer isn't able to reproduce that high of frequency.

Hi Nick,

Audyssey sets filters between the upper and lower roll-off points of all channels. When it detects a roll-off it tappers off the filtering beyond the roll-off points. I believe the AVR/PrePro decides where the recommended crossover should be based on the information about the measured roll-off that Audyssey passes to it. So for instance if Audyssey measures a roll-off at 70 Hz, the AVR/PrePro might recommend the next higher available crossover setting of 80 Hz. I doubt that it does anything with the upper -3dB point of the subwoofer when making crossover recommendations.

As Kal points out if you select the wrong subwoofer and speaker combination you could have a situation where content is lost or greatly attenuated. In your case, according to the Definitive Technologies website, the Supercube I has an upper -3dB roll-off of 200 Hz. Audyssey will set filters in the operating range of the subwoofer. For your AVR Audyssey has higher resolution filters in the subwoofer channel than on the satellite channels. As a result redirecting content to the subwoofer with relatively high crossovers settings will actually have a better chance of smoothing room modes than applying filters to the satellite channels.

So in summary, it is rather fortuitous that your subwoofer has a fairly wide operating range. The only downside of setting high crossovers on your satellite channels is that redirected content sent to the subwoofer that is over 80 Hz may be localizable to the subwoofer instead of the satellite channels.

Larry
post #32690 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickwin View Post

Thanks for the help guys,

So am I understanding that the general consensus is that I may be losing some frequency with the crossovers the way they are, but I should still leave them that way?

And for clarification, my sub will be sent all of the information bellow my main speakers crossover regardless of what the LFE LPF is set at? (so my sub is getting all of the 200hz and down information from my surround speakers even thought LFE is set to 120hz?)

Hi Nick,

Please refer to my previous response.

If the operating range of your subwoofer as described on the Definitive Technologies website realistically matches the actual measured in-room response, then you should not be loosing any appreciable content.

If the crossovers are lowered below the measured roll-off points, Audyssey will not apply filters in that region at all. If you leave the crossovers as recommended, the bass will be redirected to the higher resolution subwoofer channel and Audyssey will apply filters.

Yes, the LFE LPF only filters the LFE content, not redirected bass.

Larry
post #32691 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

If you take the lampshade off a table lamp the mic will screw right onto the top

The lampshade trick worked fine. Thanks for the tip.
post #32692 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

Also,

It is good to just do one measurement at the main, center, listening position at first. With your Gain "in the middle", look at what Audyssey/Onkyo does with the level of your sub. It can only correct by +/- 12dB. So if you see that it is at either extreme (+12dB or -12dB) there is a good possibility that the needed adjustment is of greater magnitude. So adjust your gain accordingly and re-try. Once the correction is < |12dB|, then go ahead and take your 8 position measurements.

My level was set at -13dB. So I should adjust my gain and do it again? Adjust it higher or lower? Thanks.
post #32693 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by hcour View Post

My level was set at -13dB. So I should adjust my gain and do it again? Adjust it higher or lower? Thanks.

If your level is -13dB, I take it that your AVR is an Onkyo. Its lower limit is -15dB, unlike the -12dB limit of Denon. There is no reason to change the sub gain and redo it, you are fine. That is, unless you have a sub with a sleep/auto-on circuit that won't wake up from that low a signal.
post #32694 of 70896
Yes, it's an Onkyo. Great, thanks!
post #32695 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

We received official confirmation today from Onkyo that the PR-SC5508 will indeed be MultEQ Pro ready. Apparently there was confusion with their customer support because the 5507 did not have this feature last year...

Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

Hi Jerry,
Can you please try again after clearing the cache in your browser? Here is what I see on my screen.

CK Screen.pdf



Hi Chris,

Does the drop-down list continue beyond what is shown on your screen capture?

I was wondering why the Onkyo PR-SC5508 is not showing.

Thanks.

Larry
post #32696 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

not sure what you mean by "rolls off my bass by about 5 dB". Is the level too low (how are you determining that?) or is there a roll off slope that you are measuring.



This is almost certainly an indication that there is problem with one (or more) of your speaker drivers. Audyssey is trying to apply a roll off, but if the tweeter is not functioning correctly it will still have to apply boost to achieve that. A scraping or damaged tweeter is the most likely cause of this noise. You should be able to verify this by turning Audyssey off completely and then turning up the treble control as high as it goes.


Yes, I meant the level of the bass in contrast to the rest of the frequency spectrum. I measured the frequency response with Room Wizard EQ and a Radioshack SPL meter.

Also, I found the culprit of the distortion. It seems the additional AD conversion (I connected my CD player's analog out to the receiver) led to the high end distortion. Once I kept everything in the digital domain, the crackles were gone.
post #32697 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by perritterd View Post

...if Aud. sets my crossovers for the mains at 80hz, is there much overlap of the signal with the sw-where will the mains actually pickup the signal and the sw stop playing? Also, with a LPF set to 120hz, will the sw actually play the signal at 120hz while the mains are playing something between 80-120hz?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

See the posts made on the last page re: LFE LPF starting here. With speakers set to small (as all should be) and LFE LPF set to 120, all the LFE will be played by, and only by, the sub. The freqs below the satellite crossover (ex 80) will be sent to the sub, but this is not LFE content, it is the content of those satellite channels, for ex, FR, CC, etc. So there are no problem "overlap" freqs.

Hi,

While it is true there is no "overlap" of the LFE content on the satellite speakers and the subwoofer, there is an "overlap" on redirected bass. Content at the crossover frequency does play simultaneously on the satellite speakers and the subwoofer. So theoretically there is a potential for comb filtering when listening to content at the crossover frequency.

As a practical matter with the amount of steepness of the roll-offs of the crossover's low pass and high pass filters, I doubt the overlap is audible more than a few Hz away from the crossover frequency. According to Master Handbook of Acoustics, when there is a difference of more than 9 dB in the two identical overlaping signals the comb filtering peaks and nulls are less than a dB in amplitude and therefore imperceptible.

Since this is such a fleeting effect and so localized to content at a very narrow frequency range, I doubt this could be considered a real "problem", but nevertheless there is an "overlap".

Larry
post #32698 of 70896
Hi! I have run audyssey with my new speakers Monitor audio (bx6, bx center and bx fx). I just wanted to ask... Audyssey and my receiver Marantz sr 5004 set the surr (BXFX) speakers crosssover frequency at 60 hz but they are rated from -3 db @65-30000 hz. I know i can manualy raise crossover to 80hz but will i do any harm to them when listening at hgh levels if i let it at 60 hz when because it sound better to my ears?
post #32699 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommaazz View Post

...I know i can manualy raise crossover to 80hz but will i do any harm to them when listening at hgh levels if i let it at 60 hz when because it sound better to my ears?

No harm, no foul unless you hear distortion. Depending on many factors, 60 or 80 may sound better. But at high levels, it is true that 80 offloads more work to the sub, relieving the satellites and the AVR.
post #32700 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryChanin View Post

...Since this is such a fleeting effect and so localized to content at a very narrow frequency range, I doubt this could be considered a real "problem", but nevertheless there is an "overlap"...Larry

Hi Larry. Thanks for the succinct elucidation. I had in mind that small amount of redirected content overlap when I carefully phrased my "So there are no problem "overlap" freqs" but had not considered comb filtering effects, however fleeting.
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