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"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 1154

post #34591 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Sherwood View Post

Add me (NR3007) to the growing list, I have a mic that has only one marking on it "AUDYSSEY"...

From some of the earlier posts some of may or may not have the correct one!

Hasn't been a question of the right mic for the newer receivers. It seems last years models may or may not have the correct mic. It is now under investigation by Audyssey.

My mics have 2 markings, I wrote the AVR model number on them. I suggest everyone do the same, before they get them mixed up.
post #34592 of 70896
^^^ I've done this ever since I've had more than one Audyssey product (which has been pretty much since Audyssey has been available to the public). I have 4 units in house now, so it makes sure that I'm using the correct mic (although two of them are the same model numbers anyway).

Good recommendation Skoobydoo
post #34593 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Sherwood View Post

Add me (NR3007) to the growing list, I have a mic that has only one marking on it "AUDYSSEY"...

From some of the earlier posts some of may or may not have the correct one!

Quote:
Originally Posted by skoobydoo View Post

Big difference here is, The mics look identical, but produce different results.

I look forward to your results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skoobydoo View Post

Hasn't been a question of the right mic for the newer receivers. It seems last years models may or may not have the correct mic. It is now under investigation by Audyssey.

My mics have 2 markings, I wrote the AVR model number on them. I suggest everyone do the same, before they get them mixed up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cavchameleon View Post

^^^ I've done this ever since I've had more than one Audyssey product (which has been pretty much since Audyssey has been available to the public). I have 4 units in house now, so it makes sure that I'm using the correct mic (although two of them are the same model numbers anyway).

Good recommendation Skoobydoo

I wonder is Chris has gone into hiding? This is getting out of control....
post #34594 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

The capsules are different. Fortunately, most of us have kept the mic that came with our units and never had to replace them. My OP885 uses the original "puck" mic and my AS-EQ1 uses one of the newer "tower" mics. Completely different appearance.

Of course, going "Pro" solves all of the which-mic-do-I-need? issues.

My Pro Kit just arrived today!! I have to say it's much nicer than I expected. I feel like it's Christmas again . How do I get the license for my AVR? Thx
post #34595 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Sherwood View Post

Add me (NR3007) to the growing list, I have a mic that has only one marking on it "AUDYSSEY"...

From some of the earlier posts some of may or may not have the correct one!

Do you still have the white little box in which contained the microphone?
The one that came with my TX-NR3007 says ACM1H.
post #34596 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickardl View Post

Do you still have the white little box in which contained the microphone?
The one that came with my TX-NR3007 says ACM1H.

Why didn't someone just say "look at the box..." mystery solved, ACM1H

Thanks Richard!
post #34597 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickardl View Post

Do you still have the white little box in which contained the microphone?
The one that came with my TX-NR3007 says ACM1H.

My TX-SR707 came with the ACM1
My TX-NR807 came with the ACM1H both bought last year the 807 I got 1st
seems I've been using both on both A/V's
I didn't seem to notice a difference BUt now this crops up I might have a re-do
post #34598 of 70896
Bought a 707 new from Onkyo and the box has no H on it after the model. What is the difference in results?
post #34599 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

My Pro Kit just arrived today!! I have to say it's much nicer than I expected. I feel like it's Christmas again . How do I get the license for my AVR? Thx

Login on the installer section of Audyssey's website and purchase one. Then it needs to be activated and assigned to a unit by MAC code. At that point it is a LICENSE KEY.
post #34600 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastslappy View Post

My TX-SR707 came with the ACM1
My TX-NR807 came with the ACM1H both bought last year the 807 I got 1st
seems I've been using both on both A/V's
I didn't seem to notice a difference BUt now this crops up I might have a re-do

Those are the numbers everyone has posted. Except Audyssey. I'm surprised you didn't hear a difference. My two mics sound quite a bit different than each other.
post #34601 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by skoobydoo View Post

Those are the numbers everyone has posted. Except Audyssey. I'm surprised you didn't hear a difference. My two mics sound quite a bit different than each other.

well I hadn't done the set-up on the 807 in awhile & we just got a new couch & the speakers got moved slightly Soo i used the ACM1 this time on the 807 A/V & Yes there was a difference ,come to think of it !
a little brighter, Comes to mind & on that Apple I-Pad TV commercial the clacking that Apple does ,Now is really annoying !
post #34602 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Login on the installer section of Audyssey's website and purchase one. Then it needs to be activated and assigned to a unit by MAC code. At that point it is a LICENSE KEY.

Got it. Thx. Rather painless process.
post #34603 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

I wonder is Chris has gone into hiding? This is getting out of control....


I remember Audyssey saying he was investigating the mic issue. Maybe he hasn't gotten to the bottom of it yet.


Tom
post #34604 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastslappy View Post

well I hadn't done the set-up on the 807 in awhile & we just got a new couch & the speakers got moved slightly Soo i used the ACM1 this time on the 807 A/V & Yes there was a difference ,come to think of it !
a little brighter, Comes to mind & on that Apple I-Pad TV commercial the clacking that Apple does ,Now is really annoying !

Just the opposite of the effect I'm getting. My ACM1 is much lower in the voice regions.
post #34605 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by skoobydoo View Post

Just the opposite of the effect I'm getting. My ACM1 is much lower in the voice regions.

I'll redo the calibration right now & report back ... i was looking to do something today
post #34606 of 70896
not to throw any fuel on the fire, but just wanted to post an update on the "excessive brightness" issue that some have been complaining about with 4311/A100.

after swapping out the 4311 unit and re-running Audyssey many times, we swapped in a Marantz SR7005 (regular XT not XT32) and re-ran Audyssey.

The results were.... well, totally normal!! As in, it sounds just like any other Audyssey equipped AVR that I've heard / installed.

Denon AVR 4311 EQ graph of front speakers:



Marantz SR 7005 EQ graph of front speakers:



the standard GUI on the Marantz of course gives a much less granular graph, and I know the graphs are just a "rough approximation" but they mirror the subjective impressions of the sound.

I did a rough "overlay" graph in MS Paint to show the difference.... you can see that the graphs are approximately similar until you get above 4-5kHz. Whereas the Denon ramps up severely above that, the Marantz actually REDUCES the treble gradually. (BTW the results are the same for the other speakers as well, the center channel is identical and shows the same pattern)




I know some have speculated that the subjective impression of "brightness" is just the improved "clarity" of XT32 with its higher resolution filters, but it really really really doesn't seem that way when listening. The difference is very apparent with 2-channel music.

On the 4311, when switching Audyssey on/off with 2ch music, the Audyssey ON version sounds significantly harsher and excessively bright, e.g. vocals are strident and a bit painful. The difference between Audyssey ON vs OFF is dramatic and not subtle at all. Whereas on the Marantz, switching MultEQ ON is a subtle but clear improvement -- which is the experience I always have with Audyssey MultEQ!

I know there isn't much more to say on this at least via "official" channels as neither Denon nor Audyssey has uncovered any issues in their testing, but this is a confusing problem to say the least I actually brought home the 4311 and will try re-running it on my speakers at home to see if I get similar subjective results.
post #34607 of 70896
Thanks batpig, That is an issue I have been wondering about.

I decided to try something new. I placed the mic on a hard box I had laying around. Thinking maybe the soft couch may be soaking up some of the sound. The results or difference is amazing. It is down to where what I'm hearing is subjective. It is so clear and bright compared to everything else, I'm having a hard time knowing if my problems solved. Brings me back to the problems I had getting my V8 sub right. Now I wonder why I ever had a problem with it.
post #34608 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by skoobydoo View Post

Just the opposite of the effect I'm getting. My ACM1 is much lower in the voice regions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastslappy View Post

I'll redo the calibration right now & report back ... i was looking to do something today


OK all done !
Damn what a difference .. Way better !
the crossover settings on the non"h" mic were set really high on my Center & Heights alittle high on my L/R & L/R surrounds
but Now they are set as they should be +/- 10 where before the non"h" mic settings were + 100 on the Heights & Center over what the mains were
listened to Frank Zappa(Goblin Girl & In France) same cuts before & after , totally better the 2nd time around
Zappa has soo much variation of music in each song that he makes for a good reference on judging what different instruments should really sound like IMO ...
Wow thanx Guys for bringing this up

.. Now I'm gonna have to read this entire thread & start paying attention to settings , before I was just in a hurry to setup an A/V but this was Eye opening & Jaw dropping.
I think I should used the H model on the 707 set-up ??

this brings up a touchy issue then , with regard to those who don't have the correct mic ...
post #34609 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

not to throw any fuel on the fire, but just wanted to post an update on the "excessive brightness" issue that some have been complaining about with 4311/A100.

I know some have speculated that the subjective impression of "brightness" is just the improved "clarity" of XT32 with its higher resolution filters, but it really really really doesn't seem that way when listening. The difference is very apparent with 2-channel music.

On the 4311, when switching Audyssey on/off with 2ch music, the Audyssey ON version sounds significantly harsher and excessively bright, e.g. vocals are strident and a bit painful. The difference between Audyssey ON vs OFF is dramatic and not subtle at all. Whereas on the Marantz, switching MultEQ ON is a subtle but clear improvement -- which is the experience I always have with Audyssey MultEQ!

I know there isn't much more to say on this at least via "official" channels as neither Denon nor Audyssey has uncovered any issues in their testing, but this is a confusing problem to say the least I actually brought home the 4311 and will try re-running it on my speakers at home to see if I get similar subjective results.

Have you tried doing the MultEQ calibration with a tighter set of mic positions? Instead of 2 feet to the left and 2 feet to the right, make it 1 foot to the left and 1 foot to the right.

The reason I suggest this is that in one of my recent MultEQ XT32 (Denon 4311) calibrations, I used 2 mic positions which were a foot farther to the left and right than usual. I noticed that this resulted in a large HF boost. Perhaps, XT32 is overly sensitive to off-axis measurements.

Mark
post #34610 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by skoobydoo View Post


I decided to try something new. I placed the mic on a hard box I had laying around. Thinking maybe the soft couch may be soaking up some of the sound.

Well there is your problem all along. Both are wrong. Read the Setup Guide.
post #34611 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastslappy View Post

OK all done !
Damn what a difference .. Way better !
the crossover settings on the non"h" mic were set really high on my Center & Heights alittle high on my L/R & L/R surrounds
but Now they are set as they should be +/- 10 where before the non"h" mic settings were + 100 on the Heights & Center over what the mains were
listened to Frank Zappa(Goblin Girl & In France) same cuts before & after , totally better the 2nd time around
Zappa has soo much variation of music in each song that he makes for a good reference on judging what different instruments should really sound like IMO ...
Wow thanx Guys for bringing this up

.. Now I'm gonna have to read this entire thread & start paying attention to settings , before I was just in a hurry to setup an A/V but this was Eye opening & Jaw dropping.
I think I should used the H model on the 707 set-up ??

this brings up a touchy issue then , with regard to those who don't have the correct mic ...

Interesting, my crossovers are almost exactly the same. So is it brighter with the H mic? Let me know how your 707 sounds in comparison. I don't think the H is the right mic, but who knows. Everyone who has posted has the non H.
post #34612 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by streetsmart88 View Post

Have you tried doing the MultEQ calibration with a tighter set of mic positions? Instead of 2 feet to the left and 2 feet to the right, make it 1 foot to the left and 1 foot to the right.

The reason I suggest this is that in one of my recent MultEQ XT32 (Denon 4311) calibrations, I used 2 mic positions which were a foot farther to the left and right than usual. I noticed that this resulted in a large HF boost. Perhaps, XT32 is overly sensitive to off-axis measurements.

Mark

I tried many different permutations of mic position/height, trust me.

I did NOT try a super tight (1ft radius) circle for mic positions admittedly, but I would be shocked if that was the "problem" here.

Like I said, with the standard "rectangle" (2 feet to the left, 2 feet to the right, and then 3 more measurements a foot forward of the first 3) measurement the MultEQ XT on the Marantz turned in the standard, predictable results that I am used to with Audyssey.

I'll give the "super tight" measurement pattern a shot once I hook up the 4311 in my living room. But I just feel like on a properly functioning unit one shouldn't have to go through such gyrations to achieve satisfactory results. I am NOT an "Audyssey tweaker" and have always gotten consistent results with my standard approach following Chris' maxim of "don't get too crazy overthinking the measurement positions".
post #34613 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Hilton View Post

I remember Audyssey saying he was investigating the mic issue. Maybe he hasn't gotten to the bottom of it yet.

I'm sure he hasn't. My thought was that everyone who thought their sound wasn't quite right now has had the thought planted that they had the "wrong" mic.

Ohhh, did I type that out loud?
post #34614 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by skoobydoo View Post

Interesting, my crossovers are almost exactly the same. So is it brighter with the H mic? Let me know how your 707 sounds in comparison. I don't think the H is the right mic, but who knows. Everyone who has posted has the non H.

nah not over bright @ all... but clearer, highly defined & way more bass response from my 15" woofs on the mains
just watched some Hawaii 5-0 same episode I seen earlier , voice response on the center was Greatly improved ...
Agin thanx for bringing this issue up on the 707 thread
I'll ReDo the 707 with the "H" mic ,tomorrow when the wife not here & PM u with a report on what I find
Mike
post #34615 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

Well there is your problem all along. Both are wrong. Read the Setup Guide.

Both what? I have done it many different ways. So now I'm experimenting.
post #34616 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastslappy View Post

nah not over bright @ all... but clearer, highly defined & way more bass response from my 15" woofs on the mains
just watched some Hawaii 5-0 same episode I seen earlier , voice response on the center was Greatly improved ...
Agin thanx for bringing this issue up on the 707 thread
I'll ReDo the 707 with the "H" mic ,tomorrow when the wife not here & PM u with a report on what I find
Mike

I was wondering if you found the H mic to be brighter than the non H?
post #34617 of 70896
Doesn't it seem ridiculous that the 'state of the art' EQ system can't or won't have any noticeable differentiation from one mic from model to model so that the average user would say " my 707 came with the silver and my 5008 came with the chartreuse"

And it comes back to my inquiry as to what the packers of these mics must be going through... "hey Tanya, I'm out of ACM1 boxes...just put them in the ACM1H boxes, they'll never know the difference"
post #34618 of 70896
When running Audyssey on my new Marantz SR5005, after running for my first listening position, it said "center phase". I checked wiring and retried, and got the same message. I hit "skip" and proceeded with the other listening locations.

What does "Center Phase" mean and do I need to be worried about it?
post #34619 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Murphy View Post

Doesn't it seem ridiculous that the 'state of the art' EQ system can't or won't have any noticeable differentiation from one mic from model to model so that the average user would say " my 707 came with the silver and my 5008 came with the chartreuse"

Excuse me Patrick, but "State of the Art EQ system" ... that you .. can .. afford.

There is a calibration file coded into the firmware for a batch of mics. If you want a specific mic with a specific calibration file, then you need to upgrade to the Pro Kit.
post #34620 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by skoobydoo View Post

I was wondering if you found the H mic to be brighter than the non H?

no not brighter at all about the same , the "non-H" mic was clearly setting the dB's differently for each speaker some speakers were set higher than the "H" mic some were set lower ,the center was much lower , the heights much higher , I no longer have to boost the center when I watch TV or a Blu-Ray to hear clear dialog.

.
I'll know more tomorrow when I use the "H" mic on my 707
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