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post #39721 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toadus View Post

Hurk -

I have a 7.1 setup and have tried DSX with 5.1 + Wides and 5.1 + Heights. I tried the Wide setup first, and after about a week or two, I found myself going back to a traditional 7.1 speaker placement. I liked the vastly increased soundstage of the Wide speaker setup, but it was like the surround speakers were almost turned off, and I could hear a lot of sounds which used to come out from the surrounds, now coming out from the Wides. I didn't like this, and it also made ambient sounds much easier for my ears to pinpoint.

I decided to give the DSX Heights / PLIIz Height a go, and found myself going for Dolby, hands down. Like with the DSX Wide setup, I found the Surround speakers too quiet. Switching to DPLIIz was much more pleasing for my ears. It wasn't just a volume thing, there seemed to be a big difference in what was coming from all the speakers. Here's some examples:

LOTR: Return of the King - There's a scence where a guy on hourseback comes from behind the camera, then into the troops in front of the camera. In PLIIz, you can hear the rider coming from a distance behind you, and then gallops - what appears to be - right by your right shoulder, and then into the front. It's a really great feeling and certainly gives the "wow" factor. Strangley, in DSX mode, you barely hear he rider coming. In fact, it sounds more like it's from the side than anything else, and you certainly don't get the feeling of the rider rushing right by your side. I found with PLIIz, there's numerous scenes in films where it makes certain surround sounds feel like they're RIGHT next to you and I just don't get this with DSX.

Thanks Toadus I'll give PLIIz Height a go. Is PLIIz a dolby digital DSP? I take it that will activate my 9.2 speakers. I have my front height volume increased 3 db maybe I will return to ref, I will still leave my sides up by 5 db. I'll give LOTR a try and let you know.

Hurk
post #39722 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurk View Post

I have the Onkyo 5008 and have just added the Heights, room seems to be to narrow for the Wides. Since running Audyssey DSX I have noticed that the Surrounds are now lacking details compaired to DD 5.1. I upped the surround level by 5 dbs but still seem to be lost, they are on but seem to be overpowered by the front speakers? The Heights sound great but I miss the side surrounds. Any suggestions?

Hurk

Quote:
Originally Posted by streetsmart88 View Post

My sense is also that with DSX, it is much harder to "localize" the surrounds (sides and back). However, perhaps this is exactly what DSX is trying to do -- enhance Listener Envelopment by providing seamless sound coming from everywhere and yet, from nowhere in particular.

Mark

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurk View Post

I have run Audyssey MultEq 32 numerous times and always get great results, the sound levels are spot on, (RS SL) that is not the issue. My personal preference is to hear localized sounds coming from the side surrounds, not so much anymore. I believe with the Heights, the front sound stage is now very dominant and totally overpowers the sides? Don't get me wrong the sound stage is awesome. I still hear the sides but not as much as pre Audyssey DSX. I haven't tried the DPIIz, I tried the Dolby Heights? DSX (so many sound DSP can't keep up) which I believe used 9.2 speakers (included the rears) but not much different if any from straight DSX. What seems to be the favourite for the group?

Hurk

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

AFAIK DSX doesn't make any changes to the surround channels at all so what you are experiencing is psychoacoustic - probably caused by all that extra sound coming from the front. If, as SB suggested, you try PLIIz, let us know if you find the same issues. I find a distinct difference in the soundstage presentation between DSX and PLIIz and it would be interesting to see if you do too, especially with regard to the surround channels.

Kind Regards,

Keith

Hi Keith,

Whereas DSX doesn't work like Dolby Pro Logic IIx to steer sounds to the back surrounds, it is definately altering the surrounds. Like Hurk I prefer to hear localized sounds as highly directional, and ambient sounds as diffuse. I don't have a DSX setup yet, but I fear that based on Hurk's, Mark's and Chris' remarks, quoted below, it may be decorrelating the signal in the surrounds too much for certain types of directional sounds.

Larry

Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

Hi Larry,
DSX doesn't do any kind of steering. The surround blending involves processing of the timbre and correlation of the signals in the surround channels to improve the perceived frequency response match with the front/wide/height speakers and reduce any undesired localization in the surround speakers.
post #39723 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I changed my surround speakers for dipoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Interesting. I have noticed substantial differences between PLIIz and DSX but not the effect you describe (major changes in the surrounds).

Cause and effect, perhaps? Toadus, are your surrounds direct radiators?
post #39724 of 70886
This DSX vs. DPLIIz discussion is getting interesting.

Like others here I'm using front heights because my room will not allow the proper placement of wides. I've really grown to appreciate the height speakers, and like Keith I wouldn't ever want to go without them.

I've experimented with both DSX and DPLIIz, and while it's true that I switch between the two depending on the program material that I'm listening to, I found that I prefer DPLIIz most of the time.

My HT is configured for 9 channels plus two subs. Both the (side) surround speakers and the back surrounds are identical bipole/dipole models. Interestingly enough I have the side surrounds configured in the dipole mode while the back surrounds are set to bipole. It's just a preference thing!

I'm sure that the way I have these side and back surrounds configured contributes to the reason that I prefer DPLIIz over DSX, but I often wonder to what degree

Cheers,
SB
post #39725 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryChanin View Post

Hi Keith,

Whereas DSX doesn't work like Dolby Pro Logic IIx to steer sounds to the back surrounds, it is definately altering the surrounds. Like Hurk I prefer to hear localized sounds as highly directional, and ambient sounds as diffuse. I don't have a DSX setup yet, but I fear that based on Hurk's, Mark's and Chris' remarks, quoted below, it may be decorrelating the signal in the surrounds too much for certain types of directional sounds.

Larry

Ah, thanks for that, Larry. I am using dipoles now as my surround speakers and I seem to be having the best of both worlds - localised sound effects when intended and a very nice overall ambient effect the rest of the time. I am wondering now if the differences I hear between DSX and PLIIz are, at least in part, caused by the differences to the surround channels? After the discussion here today I listened to Black Hawk Down and switched between DSX and PLIIz (I have them direct coded into my Harmony 1000 to make it quick and easy) and there is definitely a difference between the surround effects with DSX and PLIIz - I can't say I prefer one to the other especially but they are different. At least, I think they are - it's easy to get confused - ideally I'd like someone to do the switching for me so I could see if I could tell one from the other reliably.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

Hi Larry,
DSX doesn't do any kind of steering. The surround blending involves processing of the timbre and correlation of the signals in the surround channels to improve the perceived frequency response match with the front/wide/height speakers and reduce any undesired localization in the surround speakers.

That seems to be the interesing part of Chris's reply there. Depends what he means by "undesired localisation" I guess Undesired by who?

Kind Regards,

Keith
post #39726 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Cause and effect, perhaps? Toadus, are your surrounds direct radiators?

Hi Roger - yes, possibly. I used to use direct radiators (as my surrounds) with my DSX Heights and I was happy with the results. I changed to dipoles mainly because all the 'authoritative' sources seem to recommend them and I wanted to try them out. I am even more pleased since I swapped to the dipoles. I prefer the more diffuse sound from the surrounds, but still get localisation when required (eg a gun shot from over my left shoulder etc). I think a lot of this will come down to preference - some people seem to prefer a highly localised surround experience and others, like me now, a more diffuse effect.

I like DSX and PLIIz and regularly use both. Just to add more confusion () I also like THX Cinema + PLIIz Height too. Again, it's different but hard to say if it is "better".

Kind Regards,

Keith
post #39727 of 70886
Interesting discussion regarding PLIIz vs. DSX. I've had 9.1 for a few weeks now, with 4 Monitor Audio RX-FXs (in dipole mode and rears reversed per the manual) for surrounds. Most of my experience is with music, and I've come to the conclusion that PLIIz is a non-starter since it just doesn't sound good at all. I had spent some time using PLIIx with DSX, but realized that the whole experience was lacking compared to when using PLIIx alone (without the heights). Even though I like the diffuse wall of sound from the front soundstage with heights enabled, once I disengage DSX there is a lot more low end presence and punch that returns to the front and a much better integration between the front and surrounds that is dramatically different than when DSX is on--the perception of imaging and echos noticeably degrades with DSX on--so at least my perception is that DSX is doing more than merely adding the heights to the existing signals. But I'm going to experiment with PLIIz with the next few movies I get from Netflix and compare it to DSX.

I'll also say that the experience with 4 matched RX-FXs is far, far better than just two RX-FXs--it was well worth the upgrade. But I'm a little disappointed that there seems to be no good solution for listening to music in 9.1 with heights, either with DSX, Neo, or PLIIz, no matter how I tweak the settings.
post #39728 of 70886
Well, this isn't a home stereo question, but based on my experience with Audyssey with my Denon, I'm wanting to swap my JL Audio Cleansweep with an Alpine so I can get Audyssey in my car. The quick question is whether I should just use the 4 standard listening positions or add two more and if two more, is there is good rule of thumb for where those two positions should be?
post #39729 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silmott View Post

I'm a little disappointed that there seems to be no good solution for listening to music in 9.1 with heights, either with DSX, Neo, or PLIIz, no matter how I tweak the settings.

Since you like PLIIx alone, might try PLIIz with the height effect reduced somewhat.
post #39730 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silmott View Post

... I'm a little disappointed that there seems to be no good solution for listening to music in 9.1 with heights, either with DSX, Neo, or PLIIz, no matter how I tweak the settings.

You may try to turn off heights for music and look into these settings for PLII:

-Dimension control: Allows the user to gradually adjust the soundfield
either towards the front or towards the rear. This can be useful to help
achieve a more suitable balance from all the speakers with certain
recordings.
- Center Width control: Allows variable adjustment of the center image so it may be heard only from the Center speaker, only from the Left/Right
speakers as a "phantom" center image, or various combinations of all
three front speakers. With this control it is possible to create a balanced
Left-Center-Right stage presentation for both the driver and the front
passenger. For home users, it allows improved blending of the Center and
main speakers, or to control the sense of image width, or "weight."
- Panorama mode: Extends the front stereo image to include the
Surround speakers for a wraparound effect with side wall imaging.

I listen to music with:

Dimension control: 0
Center width control (0~7): 5
Panorama mode: ON

Report back your findings, please!
post #39731 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryChanin View Post

Hi Keith,

Whereas DSX doesn't work like Dolby Pro Logic IIx to steer sounds to the back surrounds, it is definately altering the surrounds. Like Hurk I prefer to hear localized sounds as highly directional, and ambient sounds as diffuse. I don't have a DSX setup yet, but I fear that based on Hurk's, Mark's and Chris' remarks, quoted below, it may be decorrelating the signal in the surrounds too much for certain types of directional sounds.

Larry

I'm not sure how relevant the ff story is to the discussion but anyhow ...

One time, I wanted to test my subs so I set master volume at reference and watched "The Haunting" and "Flight of the Phoenix". The subs were able to handle all the bass at reference level but a satellite speaker had started to "pop", at one time pretty seriously and I thought it was the right Height speaker.

At one time, I brought 3 "golden ears" friends to my room and I decided that we could try to identify which particular speaker was "popping". We all thought it was the right Height speaker so we switched off the Heights. The popping was still there so we thought it was the Wide speaker so we switched off the Wides. The popping was still there so 2 of us put our ears beside the right front speaker and only then did the other 2 detect that the popping was coming from the right surround speaker.

After this discussion, I'm beginning to think that the DSX decorrelation of the surrounds may have been so powerful that the 4 of us couldn't detect that "popping" was coming from the surrounds ... or maybe the 7 front speakers (fronts, center, wides, heights) were overpowering the surrounds.

Having said this, I still like the surrounds with DSX on. I personally don't feel that it is too decorrelated because I can distinctly detect panning from front to rear.

Mark
post #39732 of 70886
Trust me, I've been tweaking and experimenting with all the settings. I do have PLIIx set to how I like it (I keep tweaking it, but am not next to my AVR now to check the settings). Dimension is around 4, center around 4, and panorama ON with rear surrounds ON.

The issue with DSX is once it's enabled, it has its height adjustment, but no setting from -10 to 10 compares to the OFF mode. And so my issue is when I use PLIIx with DSX--the comparison is PLIIx + DSX vs. PLIIx alone. I am truly amazed at how good a lot of 2 channel music sounds with PLIIx--the right kind of music and instruments really get an amazing treatment. The way I see it, no one should own just one pair of RX-FXs.

As for PLIIz, it's amazing that it sounds so much different than PLIIx, even though they share much of the same name--it makes my system sound compressed and narrow. There aren't many adjustments for PLIIz, and PLIIz is a mutually exclusive choice with DSX.

So far, I've been using PLIIx (with different settings for cinema mode instead of music) + DSX for TV viewing. So far, this is one use for DSX that makes TV viewing much more enjoyable than 7 channels--the height expands the front soundstage but because the source material is typically not music, I don't notice the previously mentioned faults. I haven't tried PLIIz with TV yet, so I'll experiment with that too--perhaps it sounds better with that type of material than it does with music.
post #39733 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Ah, thanks for that, Larry. I am using dipoles now as my surround speakers and I seem to be having the best of both worlds - localised sound effects when intended and a very nice overall ambient effect the rest of the time. I am wondering now if the differences I hear between DSX and PLIIz are, at least in part, caused by the differences to the surround channels? After the discussion here today I listened to Black Hawk Down and switched between DSX and PLIIz (I have them direct coded into my Harmony 1000 to make it quick and easy) and there is definitely a difference between the surround effects with DSX and PLIIz - I can't say I prefer one to the other especially but they are different. At least, I think they are - it's easy to get confused - ideally I'd like someone to do the switching for me so I could see if I could tell one from the other reliably.



That seems to be the interesing part of Chris's reply there. Depends what he means by "undesired localisation" I guess Undesired by who?

Kind Regards,

Keith

Hi Keith,

Yes, too bad Chris is no longer participating here perhaps he would have elaborated on this subject.

In the "old days" when there was only two available surround channels I think it made sense to introduce dipole speakers in an attempt to recreate the unlocalized ambiance found in commercial theaters with arrays of multiple speakers.

The advantage of dipole speakers is that they excel at presenting a diffuse image ideal for unlocalized ambiance effects. The disadvantage of dipole speakers is that they present a diffuse image that is less suitable for presenting highly directional, localized effects.

It should be emphasized that today movies are comprised of BOTH diffuse ambiance effects and highly directional effects.

With the advent of 7.1 surround processing the addition of two more direct radiating surround speakers made it possible to recreate unlocalized ambiance effects without resorting to dipole speakers. So this arrangement can be used to support both ambiance and directional effects.

My fear is that if DSX is decorrelating the surround channels it may in essence be turning my direct speakers to dipoles. This may be fine for ambiance effects, but less than ideal for highly directional effects.

If by some electronic magic DSX could somehow adjust the amount of decorrelation based on the type of sound that would reduce my fears. However, based on the observations of folks with DSX I am concerned.

Larry
post #39734 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by streetsmart88 View Post

After this discussion, I'm beginning to think that the DSX decorrelation of the surrounds may have been so powerful that the 4 of us couldn't detect that "popping" was coming from the surrounds ... or maybe the 7 front speakers (fronts, center, wides, heights) were overpowering the surrounds.

Having said this, I still like the surrounds with DSX on. I personally don't feel that it is too decorrelated because I can distinctly detect panning from front to rear.

Mark

Hi Mark,

Please refer to my previous posting.

I think we are dealing with trade-offs. Just as dipole speakers trade-off directional precision for ambiance, I think decorrelation may have the same effect if it can't be dynamically adjusted.

Introducing an out-of-phase signal or decorrelation may not completely destroy directional effects, but it certainly is not improving them.

Larry
post #39735 of 70886
I recently switched the wiring of my M&K SS-150 surrounds from dipole to tripole and really like the sound ... both ambient and discrete elements are presented properly. My rear surrounds are presently set for monopole operation, but I am going to relocate them (they are collocated as per THX ASA) and set them to tripole as well.

I got an added bonus switching the surrounds to tripole. Now some of the sound passes over the head of the near seat making the near surround less localizable to the near seat. And that same direct component makes the far surround more noticeable. These two differences from dipole operation have widened the sweet spot.

Jeff
post #39736 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

I recently switched the wiring of my M&K SS-150 surrounds from dipole to tripole and really like the sound ... both ambient and discrete elements are presented properly. My rear surrounds are presently set for monopole operation, but I am going to relocate them (they are collocated as per THX ASA) and set them to tripole as well.

I got an added bonus switching the surrounds to tripole. Now some of the sound passes over the head of the near seat making the near surround less localizable to the near seat. And that same direct component makes the far surround more noticeable. These two differences from dipole operation have widened the sweet spot.

Jeff

Did you run Audyssey setup after the switch? From my experience with calibrating with dipoles, Audyssey sets the volume for the side surrounds louder than if they were tripole, bipole or direct firing. I think I remember this coming up before and Chris mentioning that the diffuse sound at the #1 measuring position would cause this anomaly.
post #39737 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Murphy View Post

Did you run Audyssey setup after the switch? From my experience with calibrating with dipoles, Audyssey sets the volume for the side surrounds louder than if they were tripole, bipole or direct firing. I think I remember this coming up before and Chris mentioning that the diffuse sound at the #1 measuring position would cause this anomaly.

Yes I had re-run Audyssey setup after doing that.

Audyssey setup is measuring (total) SPL at the mic position whether direct or indirect, and will set the channel trim accordingly. I guess if one's head is in a slightly different location than the measurement mic then the perceived level could be different from the detected level.

Jeff
post #39738 of 70886
I have an all Def Tech setup. Other than my center and heights, all my speakers are bipole powered towers. My center and heights are timbre matched though.

DSX sounds absolutely fantastic in my basement... I do not have a dedicated HT.

The only anomaly I have noticed is that my height speakers are not localizable (when I feel they should be based on the content and other's experiences). I attribute this to the fact that my fronts and wides are bipoles and my heights aren't located at the ideal 45 degree angle (I have 8' ceilings).

My surrounds do not call attention to themselves, as in I'm not hearing any unintended sounds coming from them. I do, however, find myself enjoying them.

I guess I should consider myself lucky. I have used PLIIx for years and I have found DSX builds on that technology quite nicely.

YMMV,
doug.
post #39739 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

I have an all Def Tech setup. Other than my center and heights, all my speakers are bipole powered towers. My center and heights are timbre matched though.

DSX sounds absolutely fantastic in my basement... I do not have a dedicated HT.

The only anomaly I have noticed is that my height speakers are not localizable (when I feel they should be based on the content and other's experiences). I attribute this to the fact that my fronts and wides are bipoles and my heights aren't located at the ideal 45 degree angle (I have 8' ceilings).

YMMV,
doug.

I'm not sure if this is a problem. My Height speakers are direct radiators and they are located at the ideal positions (45 degrees from a vertical plane and 45 degrees from a horizontal plane) and they are pointed at the MLP. I've been using them for about a year now and they are definitely not localizable. My guess is that I'd have to put my ears 2 feet away from them before I can localize them but since they're mounted 13 feet high, I can't do that. I think they are designed in this manner except for extremely rare scenes, as pointed out below.

There are scenes with up to down (e.g., LOTR FOTR Bridge of Kaza-dum, arrows flying up and down) or overhead front to rear panning (e.g., Top Gun aerial battles), when they are surely helping improve that sound image, but these types of "high" sounds are usually not "pinpoint" and they are often very quick.

I believe that a clear "high" sound image is a pretty rare bird -- the best that I've heard is the walking at the upper deck of the ship in Master & Commander, during the first battle scene and the Height speakers certainly enhance that sound image. However, I think that 99% of the time, there are no clearly "localizable" sounds for the Height speakers. Their main use seems to be the expansion of the soundstage. I recall that Chris said that somehow, the Heights give more depth to the soundstage.

Mark
post #39740 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by streetsmart88 View Post

However, I think that 99% of the time, there are no clearly "localizable" sounds for the Height speakers. Their main use seems to be the expansion of the soundstage. I recall that Chris said that somehow, the Heights give more depth to the soundstage.

Audyssey has been quite clear that DSX height speakers are not intended for "gimmicks" and since height is not mixed in any height to rear pan has to be a fantasy. In his interview Chris said height and wide speakers are to simulate pleasing reflections and as such shouldn't have an overly specific presence.
post #39741 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

Audyssey has been quite clear that DSX height speakers are not intended for "gimmicks" and since height is not mixed in any height to rear pan has to be a fantasy. In his interview Chris said height and wide speakers are to simulate pleasing reflections and as such shouldn't have an overly specific presence.

+1.

However, aren't the Wides and Heights also meant to fill in the gap between the fronts and surrounds, thereby providing more seamless envelopment *and* having a smoother pan between the front and rear speakers?

Mark
post #39742 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by streetsmart88 View Post

However, aren't the Wides and Heights also meant to fill in the gap between the fronts and surrounds, thereby providing more seamless envelopment *and* having a smoother pan between the front and rear speakers?

I have no idea. There are various somewhat vague statements. Since it's a trade secret I suppose vague is appropriate.

E.g. what does this mean?
Quote:


DSX doesn't do any kind of steering. The surround blending involves processing of the timbre and correlation of the signals in the surround channels to improve the perceived frequency response match with the front/wide/height speakers and reduce any undesired localization in the surround speakers.
post #39743 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

I have no idea. There are various somewhat vague statements. Since it's a trade secret I suppose vague is appropriate.

Fair enough.

Based on my experience, I've always felt that DSX resulted in smoother and more realistic front-rear pans. Let me try to do some experiments with friends and see if others feel the same way. I would agree that this is not the raison d'etre of DSX (that would be more along the line of injecting pleasant reflections) but it may be one of those happy side results.

Mark
post #39744 of 70886
A couple of times recently, I've walked around the room and listened to where voices (using DD 5.1 on TV) seemed to come from. I'm using Audyssey 9.2 with front wides and front heights for 5.1 TV sound. If I face away from my TV, dialog seems to be behind me, as it should, and when I face the other way, looking in a direction at right angles to the TV screen, the sound seems to come from in front of me. I think that's right. If I'm directly in front of the screen, it's obviously correct, and when I move to the right or left, it's not so obvious, but still plausible.

What I think is especially nice is the way the front height speakers can lift up the dialog to seem to come from the height of my screen, even though my center speaker is physically 35" below the vertical screen center. (Well, it's a plasma, so I just can't get the center speaker in a place where most voices should come from.)

I seem to be preoccupied with dialog, but that's because most of what I listen to has mostly dialog.
post #39745 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee View Post

What I think is especially nice is the way the front height speakers can lift up the dialog to seem to come from the height of my screen, even though my center speaker is physically 35" below the vertical screen center. (Well, it's a plasma, so I just can't get the center speaker in a place where most voices should come from.)

Is this the effect of the Height speakers or just the ventriloquism effect?

Mark
post #39746 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee View Post

What I think is especially nice is the way the front height speakers can lift up the dialog to seem to come from the height of my screen, even though my center speaker is physically 35" below the vertical screen center. (Well, it's a plasma, so I just can't get the center speaker in a place where most voices should come from.).

Yes, I agree! I use the 'Screen Ctr Dialog' at 2 or 3; this mixes some of the Center Channel material into the Heights, something like a 'phantom center' is created with only the L and R speakers. This helps raise the dialog, since my Center Speaker has to sit below my projector screen and is thus a 20" or so below ear level (the ht of the L and R speakers).
post #39747 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Yes, I agree! I use the 'Screen Ctr Dialog' at 2 or 3; this mixes some of the Center Channel material into the Heights, something like a 'phantom center' is created with only the L and R speakers. This helps raise the dialog, since my Center Speaker has to sit below my projector screen and is thus a 20" or so below ear level (the ht of the L and R speakers).

I'm not sure what is 'Screen Ctr Dialog'. Is this an Onkyo feature?

When you refer to Heights, are these DSX Heights or Dolby PLIIz Heights?

In any case, Chris K has confirmed (several times, I believe) that DSX does not put any dialog into the Height speakers. For example:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...r#post16914124

There are only a few Blurays (e.g., Ratatouille, Alien) which are mixed in a way that the dialog starts leaking into the Heights and Wides and in these cases, the dialog gets seriously screwed up. The phenomenon is like a "disembodied dialog" or "voice of god" effect.

Mark
post #39748 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

Audyssey has been quite clear that DSX height speakers are not intended for "gimmicks" and since height is not mixed in any height to rear pan has to be a fantasy. In his interview Chris said height and wide speakers are to simulate pleasing reflections and as such shouldn't have an overly specific presence.

That is true, but there are many instances where a definite height effect is noticeable and localised. In addition to the movies mentioned above, Black Hawk Down has many scenes where the ground troops are firing towards elevated enemy positions and the sound clearly travels from 'ground' level up to the relevant Height speaker. It adds a huge amount of enjoyment when this happens. Similarly in The Fifth Element 'Diva' scene, the Diva's voice soars to the very top of the auditorium just like it would in real life and again adds enormously to the scene. There are many such instances in my DVD/BD collection where this sort of thing happens. HST, I concur that the principal intended effect is the tremendous extra depth created in the soundstage - but when you do get localised Height effects, they make for a definite wow factor.

Kind Regards,

Keith
post #39749 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee View Post

What I think is especially nice is the way the front height speakers can lift up the dialog to seem to come from the height of my screen, even though my center speaker is physically 35" below the vertical screen center. (Well, it's a plasma, so I just can't get the center speaker in a place where most voices should come from.)

That's interesting because almost all dialogue comes from the centre channel and DSX Height doesn't take any information from that channel IIRC. I wonder what psychoacoustic effect is causing this?

Kind Regards,

Keith
post #39750 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Yes, I agree! I use the 'Screen Ctr Dialog' at 2 or 3; this mixes some of the Center Channel material into the Heights, something like a 'phantom center' is created with only the L and R speakers. This helps raise the dialog, since my Center Speaker has to sit below my projector screen and is thus a 20" or so below ear level (the ht of the L and R speakers).

Ah - is that the answer to the question I just posed to GregLee? My AVR doesn't have that option. OTOH he didn't mention he was using a special setting to create the effect...

Kind Regards,

Keith
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › "Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779)