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"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 1734

post #51991 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by cenvalycali View Post

Can some one help me with Audessey setup? I'm not sure what to set my crossover frequency to and what I should run my volume at. This is for my Bic f12. I have the Denon 1712. Thanks

Adam

I think this is dealt with in the FAQ, linked HERE.

After checking the FAQ, if you still have questions, please don't hesitate to come back and ask them!

The specific part of the FAQ you need is: C. Crossover Settings (click here)
post #51992 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by cenvalycali View Post

I set it up using 90 freq. After setup I felt like I need something more. I turned freq up to 120. Also Audessey set my sub to -11. I moved it to -5. I felt like I need more bass. This is my setup as of now.
FL -1.5
FR -2.5
C -7.0
SL -1.0
SR 0.0

My front are set to large and they are Polk Audio monitor ser2 70s. Center is cs2 series 2 from PA. Receiver is Denon 1712. Anyone see anything wrong the way Audessey set everything up? Surrounds are KFE. I pretty sure there from late 90s and the models are KHT Model 60S.

Room is a basic square.

If your speakers are set to LARGE then your subwoofer is not handling the bass at all. It is simply handling the LFE (0.1) channel.

See the FAQ here: 3. I have big tower speakers at the front. Shouldn’t I set these to ‘Large’? (click here)
post #51993 of 70884
So what's up with XT32 not doing much EQ to the subs? It was much more aggressive before upgrading my receiver from XT to XT32. It's a good thing I have a MiniDSP to handle EQ on my subs

This is pre-eq and post-eq

post #51994 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by rushwj View Post

hello all! i've just jumped in and ordered an svs sb13-plus (sealed sub with 13-inch driver) and am pumped about getting it and setting it up. i'm currently using a hsu vtf3-HO (about five years old now), and wanted to try out a sealed sub. i have a descent-sized room (22x19x9, open on one side to an even larger kitchen and eating area) and may need to add another one, but figured i'd just try one and if i overall don't like it, then the return shipping won't be as bad (although i'm really thinking i'm going to love it!). anyway, the set-up seems a little more involved than what i'm used to. i was searching for some thoughts on where to start with the set-up. this sub is smaller and more attractive and i may have better placement options, so i do understand the importance of that, but mostly wondering about the peq and such. i'm running paradigm studio 60v5 fronts, cc-590 center, studio 10 rears off of an integra 70.2 and using the audyssey xt32. do i bother w/ anything on the sub besides the gain/volume and phase, and let xt32 do it' job? or do i peq with the sub (although unsure how to do this) and then run audyssey? thanks for any help/advice. posting here b/c you know audyssey the best, but may also post in svs forum.

I think you are going to be very happy with sealed subs and Audyssey. I finally tried sealed subs a couple of years ago and will never go back. The reduced group delay, slower roll-off and quick and well damped transient response all dovetail well with what Audyssey can do.

Harrison
post #51995 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by hclarkx View Post

I think you are going to be very happy with sealed subs and Audyssey. I finally tried sealed subs a couple of years ago and will never go back. The reduced group delay, slower roll-off and quick and well damped transient response all dovetail well with what Audyssey can do.

Harrison

Except it kind of sucks with XT32 from what I'm seeing.


The first graph here is raw response of a sealed system compared to Audyssey XT32, the second graph is the same system after being EQ'd with a MiniDSP, then running XT32. I had better results with standard XT, displayed in the third graph. Fortunately, I have a MiniDSP which I used to EQ my subs flat before running audyssey which presented me with some better results, shown in the second graph. Audyssey really had to stretch for this one


Yellow is after Audyssey XT32, green is raw response without Audyssey.


Blue is MiniDSP only, red is MiniDSP then Audyssey XT32


This is an older graph from before I upgraded my receiver with Denon to support XT32. Yellow is raw, green is after running Audyssey XT
post #51996 of 70884
Yea, that pretty much blows. You said you just upgraded via firmware to XT32? Or is this a new AVR?

Given the number of firmware problems I've seen over time, it wouldn't surprise me if this was one of those issues. No one else with a problem in the AVR thread?
post #51997 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

Yea, that pretty much blows. You said you just upgraded via firmware to XT32? Or is this a new AVR?

Given the number of firmware problems I've seen over time, it wouldn't surprise me if this was one of those issues. No one else with a problem in the AVR thread?

would have to be a new receiver. Im almost positive there isnt a way to "upgrade" to xt32 via firmware.
post #51998 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff View Post

would have to be a new receiver. Im almost positive there isnt a way to "upgrade" to xt32 via firmware.

The OP has a recently upgraded Denon flagship AVR 5308. That model and the pre/pro AVP-A1 have the only XT32 upgrade available and it is not FW only. It is a $1K hardware/FW upgrade which has to be done in an authorized service center and provides several new features including XT32 and 3D passthru.

Admirably, Denon has provided what may be the last major upgrade to a dying breed, the $6-8K flagship. This has helped the guys who spent so much into these aging beasts from having 4311 envy.
post #51999 of 70884
FAQ updated.

A couple of additional questions and one or two answers edited to include more, or better, information.

Coming soon:

What is THX Reference Level?

Reference versus Preference?

What is Re-Eq and should it be on or off?

Which curve should I use - Movies or Music / Reference or Flat?
post #52000 of 70884
OFF TOPIC

I read AVS using their iPad app. I can see & use embedded links in the text of various posts, including these terrific FAQ links (thanks very much). That said, I cannot use the links people embed in signatures. When I select one, a new window opens with the post I was reading sans the signature block. Any thoughts (besides dumping the iPad)?

Maybe this is not off topic after all, maybe all FAQs should address hyperlinking questions?
post #52001 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal516 View Post

OFF TOPIC

I read AVS using their iPad app. I can see & use embedded links in the text of various posts, including these terrific FAQ links (thanks very much). That said, I cannot use the links people embed in signatures. When I select one, a new window opens with the post I was reading sans the signature block. Any thoughts (besides dumping the iPad)?

Maybe this is not off topic after all, maybe all FAQs should address hyperlinking questions?

Yes, I've noticed this too. I guess it's a bug in the iPad App. I like the App - it's a pretty neat way to browser AVS but it does have some limitations. There's no way around this AFAIK - you could always browse AVS in iPad's version of Safari of course, and then the links all work, but it's not as pleasant an experience that way I agree.
post #52002 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

Except it kind of sucks with XT32 from what I'm seeing.


Your setup is hugely, visually impressive and I am consumed with admiration for the work you have put in to it.

But it such an unusual setup that maybe it just isn't working well with Audyssey XT32 for some reason.

As you do seem to have achieved a flat bass response anyway, regardless of CT32, why worry? Just enjoy!

One of your many photos attached in case others didn't follow your sig links. (I'd recommend that people do though - it's an interesting ride.)
LL
post #52003 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

Except it kind of sucks with XT32 from what I'm seeing...I had better results with standard XT, displayed in the third graph...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Your setup is hugely, visually impressive and I am consumed with admiration for the work you have put in to it.
But it such an unusual setup that maybe it just isn't working well with Audyssey XT32 for some reason...

I hope others with upgraded 5308s do some measuring and checking because something looks wrong here. AVP-A1 owners are reporting great, improved bass with the upgrade. There is a possibility he's found a FW bug in the 5308.
post #52004 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

FAQ updated.

A couple of additional questions and one or two answers edited to include more, or better, information.

Coming soon:

What is THX Reference Level?

Reference versus Preference?

What is Re-Eq and should it be on or off?

Which curve should I use - Movies or Music / Reference or Flat?

Keith, several of these topics are Onkyo-specific. Will you identify these as such? I'm not sure if there are any Denon-specific topics that should be included in an Audyssey FAQ--can't think of any offhand.
post #52005 of 70884
Keith, would it be useful to put in something about the dialogue normalization setting and how that interacts with DynEQ?
post #52006 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal516 View Post

OFF TOPIC

I read AVS using their iPad app. I can see & use embedded links in the text of various posts, including these terrific FAQ links (thanks very much). That said, I cannot use the links people embed in signatures. When I select one, a new window opens with the post I was reading sans the signature block. Any thoughts (besides dumping the iPad)?

Maybe this is not off topic after all, maybe all FAQs should address hyperlinking questions?

I use the APP as well with the same issue. There's a thread concerning the APP that you can post to. If enough of us complain, maybe it will get fixed.
post #52007 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Keith, several of these topics are Onkyo-specific. Will you identify these as such? I'm not sure if there are any Denon-specific topics that should be included in an Audyssey FAQ--can't think of any offhand.

Hi AJ - I am being slow today - which topics are Onkyo-specific?
post #52008 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

Keith, would it be useful to put in something about the dialogue normalization setting and how that interacts with DynEQ?

It sure would. But I don't think I know enough about it to do it myself. Could you (or anyone) give me the gist of it? Thanks.
post #52009 of 70884
I also would like to know how why pro xover decisions for the mains affect the xover decision for the center. Then how do these affect center dialogue.
post #52010 of 70884
Originally Posted by AustinJerry
Keith, several of these topics are Onkyo-specific. Will you identify these as such? I'm not sure if there are any Denon-specific topics that should be included in an Audyssey FAQ--can't think of any offhand.

Hi AJ - I am being slow today - which topics are Onkyo-specific?


Hi Keith - Not AJ - but the following are Onkyo specific:
THX Reference
Re-EQ
post #52011 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post


Yes, I've noticed this too. I guess it's a bug in the iPad App. I like the App - it's a pretty neat way to browser AVS but it does have some limitations. There's no way around this AFAIK - you could always browse AVS in iPad's version of Safari of course, and then the links all work, but it's not as pleasant an experience that way I agree.

I also find it a bit problematic when I switch between 3G and Wifi--if Wifi gets out of range or weak, I have to kill the AVS app and login again to make the app responsive. That's why I often use the Safari browser when I write answers.
post #52012 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggsantafe View Post

Originally Posted by AustinJerry
Keith, several of these topics are Onkyo-specific. Will you identify these as such? I'm not sure if there are any Denon-specific topics that should be included in an Audyssey FAQ--can't think of any offhand.

Hi AJ - I am being slow today - which topics are Onkyo-specific?


Hi Keith - Not AJ - but the following are Onkyo specific:
THX Reference
Re-EQ

I'm still being slow, sorry. THX Reference is 'reference' AIUI - the standard which calls for average SPLs of 85db with 20db of headroom for a maximum per-channel SPL of 105db in the satellites (+10db for a maximum of 115db for the LFE channel). That's what the answer was meant to explain.

WRT to Re-EQ, this is a THX setting isn’t it and thus surely all THX AVRs of any make will either have a way to enable/disable RE-Eq or to do it automatically? If it user-configurable, then some people are confused about whether it should be engaged when using Audyssey reference/movie curve (A: no) or when using Audyssey Flat/Music curve.

Where these things *are* product specific I guess is where a unit doesn’t have THX certification, in which case it won't have any THX modes. But reference will still be reference wrt to the Audyssey calibration.

Please correct me if I am wrong - I haven't written those FAQs yet. It's important to get this right because I am trying to make the FAQ non-product-specific. Where this isn’t possible, it will annotated as such ("applies to Onkyo/Denon/Etc only"). My Denon knowledge is, unfortunately, zero as I have never owned a Denon AVR, so I will need guidance from the Members there (but I do have one of their excellent small systems in the guest bedroom).
post #52013 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

I also find it a bit problematic when I switch between 3G and Wifi--if Wifi gets out of range or weak, I have to kill the AVS app and login again to make the app responsive. That's why I often use the Safari browser when I write answers.

I tend to use the App for reading the threads but generally use a proper computer/keyboard for replying.
post #52014 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

Yea, that pretty much blows. You said you just upgraded via firmware to XT32? Or is this a new AVR?

Given the number of firmware problems I've seen over time, it wouldn't surprise me if this was one of those issues. No one else with a problem in the AVR thread?

Denon released a hardware/firmware upgrade for the 5308. That is all that changed. in my setup, so XT to XT32 here.
post #52015 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Your setup is hugely, visually impressive and I am consumed with admiration for the work you have put in to it.

But it such an unusual setup that maybe it just isn't working well with Audyssey XT32 for some reason.

As you do seem to have achieved a flat bass response anyway, regardless of CT32, why worry? Just enjoy!

One of your many photos attached in case others didn't follow your sig links. (I'd recommend that people do though - it's an interesting ride.)

Thanks for the compliments, but the LF response curve here is not really unusual. It looks like any other sealed enclosure response as far as Audyssey is concerned. XT did a better job on the sub. I reran XT32 multiple times to make sure it wasn't a bad run or something, and saw the same results. Anyway, I EQ'd it flat with my MiniDSP then let XT32 rip, so all is happy now, but it is odd that it was unable to do this when standard XT did it better. I'm assuming there are changes in XT32 to prevent it from boosting the low end so protect peoples subs. Ah well, such is life. On the bright side, it does way better for the channels I don't have externally EQ'd.

This is my final response, you can ignore the HF rolloff as I used a mic that isn't good in that range to measure.

post #52016 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I'm still being slow, sorry. THX Reference is 'reference' AIUI - the standard which calls for average SPLs of 85db with 20db of headroom for a maximum per-channel SPL of 105db in the satellites (+10db for a maximum of 115db for the LFE channel). That's what the answer was meant to explain.

WRT to Re-EQ, this is a THX setting isn’t it and thus surely all THX AVRs of any make will either have a way to enable/disable RE-Eq or to do it automatically? If it user-configurable, then some people are confused about whether it should be engaged when using Audyssey reference/movie curve (A: no) or when using Audyssey Flat/Music curve.

Where these things *are* product specific I guess is where a unit doesn’t have THX certification, in which case it won't have any THX modes. But reference will still be reference wrt to the Audyssey calibration.

Please correct me if I am wrong - I haven't written those FAQs yet. It's important to get this right because I am trying to make the FAQ non-product-specific. Where this isn’t possible, it will annotated as such ("applies to Onkyo/Denon/Etc only"). My Denon knowledge is, unfortunately, zero as I have never owned a Denon AVR, so I will need guidance from the Members there (but I do have one of their excellent small systems in the guest bedroom).

Denon's are not THX certified, so there is no mention in the Denon Owner manual of THX settings. Likewise there is also no mention of the Re-EQ offset for Denon owners. Just pointing out what Austin Jerry was referring to in his post about Onkyo specific terminology, not trying to debate the concept of THX reference
post #52017 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

Thanks for the compliments, but the LF response curve here is not really unusual. It looks like any other sealed enclosure response as far as Audyssey is concerned. XT did a better job on the sub. I reran XT32 multiple times to make sure it wasn't a bad run or something, and saw the same results. Anyway, I EQ'd it flat with my MiniDSP then let XT32 rip, so all is happy now, but it is odd that it was unable to do this when standard XT did it better. I'm assuming there are changes in XT32 to prevent it from boosting the low end so protect peoples subs. Ah well, such is life. On the bright side, it does way better for the channels I don't have externally EQ'd.

It is very odd. XT32 is far more capable in the bass region than XT so you'd expect the results to be the other way around. Unless there's a bug in the FW update as SoM suggests - but that would also be reported by others I guess. Still, the end result you have achieved is great, so who cares really how you got there (other than for academic interest)?
post #52018 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggsantafe View Post

Denon's are not THX certified, so there is no mention in the Denon Owner manual of THX settings. Likewise there is also no mention of the Re-EQ offset for Denon owners. Just pointing out what Austin Jerry was referring to in his post about Onkyo specific terminology, not trying to debate the concept of THX reference

The flagship models, Denon 5308CI and AVP are both THX Ultra2 certified. Both use Audyssey XT and can be upgraded to XT32.
post #52019 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggsantafe View Post

Denon's are not THX certified, so there is no mention in the Denon Owner manual of THX settings. Likewise there is also no mention of the Re-EQ offset for Denon owners. Just pointing out what Austin Jerry was referring to in his post about Onkyo specific terminology, not trying to debate the concept of THX reference

OK thanks - for clarification, Denon AVRs don't have DSP modes then such as THX Cinema? EDIT: I just checked - a couple do but I am surprised to discover that most don't, including my 'favourite', the 4311. I spotted something called 'Cinema EQ' in the specs which I take to be Denon's own version of RE-Eq or something like it.

Do Denons have user-selectable Audyssey Reference or Flat curves, like the latest Onkyo's Audyssey Movie/Music curves? If they have a user-selectable Reference curve then that already has the HF rollof, so without any THX modes, I can't quite see the purpose of Cinema EQ. On the Onkyos if you select Movie (Reference) then RE-Eq needs to be off of course. If you select Music (Flat) then RE-Eq needs to be enabled if you use a THX mode. Some units don't give you the choice of user-selectable curves so all this happens 'behind the scenes'. No wonder people get confused

Whether they are THX certified or not, of course, they will still use Audyssey with the prime objective of Audyssey which is to set a system up so that at 0dB on the MV it is playing at THX Reference level. I can’t see how that is AVR-specific (assuming the AVR has Audyssey MultEQ). Maybe it's best to delete the reference to THX and call it just 'Reference Level' - that way nobody with a Denon can be confused into thinking it doesn't apply to them.
post #52020 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The flagship models, Denon 5308CI and AVP are both THX Ultra2 certified. Both use Audyssey XT and can be upgraded to XT32.

Here are some flavors of THX certification:

THX Ultra2

THX Ultra2 Certified products bring the cinematic experience to larger home theaters, 3,000 cubic feet in size, with a viewing distance of 12 feet or greater from the screen.

THX Select2

THX Select2 Certified products are for medium sized rooms, up to 2,000 cubic feet in size, with a 10-12 foot viewing distance from the screen.

THX I/S Plus Systems

Certified Systems (AV Receiver + Speaker Bundle) have the power to fill a small home theater or dorm room where the viewing distance from the screen is 6-8 feet.

THX Certified Multimedia Products

THX Certified Multimedia Products are designed and engineered for PC gaming and multimedia on the desktop.




For more info here's where they are hiding on the Net: www.thx.com
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