or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › "Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 1820

post #54571 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Have you tried HDMI?

Yes. Analog is better.

Just talkin' music here so far...
post #54572 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

Ever hear of this affliction called color blindness?
Max

Ever heard of a heart transplant? Or lung, liver, kidney? or hand?

Audio and video design engineers always work from scientific findings of healty organs. Fletcher-Munson didn't test hearing impaired people when they came out with the first loudness curves in the 1930s. They worked for Bell Labs and not a hospital.The rest belongs to doctors. Ever heard of eye transplant? You bet eye surgeon scientists are working hard for that case as well. See here.

Ever read anything about the ears of a barn owl? Their ears are also on the left and right side of their head but are placed asymmetrically allowing them to pin-point objects both horizontally and vertically coz they hunt during their flight, so closing-in on the object for the barn owl is crutial. Do audio engineers need to take that into consideration? I don't think so. They have enough problems with front heights to render the enjoyment for our human ears in the vertical plane. Moreover, barn owls don't buy AVRs, eh! smile.gif

MaX? Nice to talk to you. You always bring up interesting things worth to talk about in the official Audyssey thread that lead us to much better understanding of this technology and its deep details. smile.gif

Take care! smile.gif

of all the obfuscating, avoiding-the-issue quirky Feri posts, this one takes the cake!
post #54573 of 70884
got new polk rti fronts and center so I re-ran audyessy.

I have a denon avr-788.

I initial set all the speakers to small. Then ran the audyessy set up. It set my fronts to large, center to small, every other speaker to small.

If I go back and change my speakers to small, the audyessy light on the front of the audyessy turns red,(right after setup its green) looking in the manual it says that a red light says that audyessy is bi-passed for L/R fronts when the light is red.

What should I do?
post #54574 of 70884
Nothing to worry about. The light changing from green to red just indicates thy you've modified a speaker setting away from how it was set during auto setup.
post #54575 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Nothing to worry about. The light changing from green to red just indicates thy you've modified a speaker setting away from how it was set during auto setup.

so should I change the fronts to small?
post #54576 of 70884
yes, absolutely. Take some time to read through any of the Audyssey guides out there, my website has good info as well as links to other resources: http://batpigworld.com/fadq.html#audyssey

also read through the crossover section of the Audyssey 101/FAQ from this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/51780#user_C
post #54577 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post


The f)7 line I just added above to your quote as a cut and paste from the doc.
Here is is again - f)7. What is ‘LFE + Main’ or ‘Double Bass’ and should I use it? (click here)
I am doing this as a straight cut and paste. It displays fine on my screen; what is it doing on yours?
Jeff


I am doing this:

 

  1. I go to the Word doc
  2. Select the link I want to use
  3. Cmd-C to copy it
  4. Go to the AVS Editor
  5. CMD-V to paste it.
  6. That's it - nothing else.

 

This is the result:

 

[URL="http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/51780#user_f7"]f)7. What is ‘LFE + Main’ or ‘Double Bass’ and should I use it? (click here)[/URL]

 

How weird is this - it works for everyone but me????

 

What I don't understand is that I thought the new AVS forum software now used html - there was all sorts of concern over how very long posts like the FAQ or jdsmoothie's Denon guides would translate to the new code, from BB Code to html, but the s/w guys at AVS made it so it automatically translated for 99% of the code anyway.

 

But the syntax [URL] ..... [/URL] is BB Code, so I can't really understand why it works at all. If I use the Source button in my editor and look at a link that has been successfully made, there is no BB Coce in it at all - just loads of html code, like this:

 

<br />
        Here is is again - <a class="bbcode_url" href="http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/51780#user_f7">f)7. What is ‘LFE + Main’ or ‘Double Bass’ and should I use it? (click here)</a><br />

 

Something translates your BB Code to html on the fly but it doesn't seem to work for me.

post #54578 of 70884
@ Jeff:



5. How does Audyssey handle dipole and bipole surround speakers? (click here)

Surely it isn’t just that there is something amiss with the test link I've been using?? I'll try some more....

1. Audyssey reports that my speakers are out of phase (click here)

2. Is it OK to change the distance settings Audyssey sets? (click here)

1. What is Dynamic Volume? (click here)

And the offending link from before:

f)7. What is ‘LFE + Main’ or ‘Double Bass’ and should I use it? (click here)

EDIT: How weird. Suddenly it works. I have done nothing here - what's to do - highlighting, copying and pasting isn’t exactly difficult is it?????

Thanks for your patience everyone.
post #54579 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

of all the obfuscating, avoiding-the-issue quirky Feri posts, this one takes the cake!

What is unclear batpig? Meantime, what advice can be given to the hearing impaired how to set up Audyssey differently. There's no such mention in the setup guide or the FAQ!
Edited by mogorf - 6/17/12 at 5:38am
post #54580 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

@ Jeff:
5. How does Audyssey handle dipole and bipole surround speakers? (click here)
Surely it isn’t just that there is something amiss with the test link I've been using?? I'll try some more....
1. Audyssey reports that my speakers are out of phase (click here)
2. Is it OK to change the distance settings Audyssey sets? (click here)
1. What is Dynamic Volume? (click here)
And the offending link from before:
f)7. What is ‘LFE + Main’ or ‘Double Bass’ and should I use it? (click here)
EDIT: How weird. Suddenly it works. I have done nothing here - what's to do - highlighting, copying and pasting isn’t exactly difficult is it?????
Thanks for your patience everyone.

Keith,
If the post has "Rich Text Editor" enabled, it will show the HTML code, otherwise if the "BB Text Editor" is enabled it will show just the question.
post #54581 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

What is unclrear batpig? Meantime, what advice can be given to the hearing impaired how to set up Audyssey differently. There's no such mention in the setup guide or the FAQ!

Dear, dear Feri.... I think the overall point was that we all hear and see potentially differently - but we don't class those differences as impairment. My own problem with my left eye having a warmer colour temperature than my right is is not an impairment - it is just a difference between one eye and another. And I would guess that my overall colour temperature in both eyes may be slightly different to yours - hence the need for objective calibration of displays using computer software and a colorimeter. I have already mentioned that Max can definitely localise bass down to 45Hz whereas I can definitely NOT localise bass below 80H - so ipso facto Max and I are hearing things differently. Neither of us is 'impaired' though as far as I can see - just different. Clearly from that example we do NOT all hear the same, despite the overall design of our ears being the same. I suspect that the differences occur after the ear 'hardware' and in the 'software' of the brain - Max's brain interprets what his ears physically hear somewhat differently than my own brain interprets what I physically hear. How else is it possible to explain that he can localise bass at 45Hz and I cannot? Neither of us is lying or mistaken, so the difference must be factual.
post #54582 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Keith,
If the post has "Rich Text Editor" enabled, it will show the HTML code, otherwise if the "BB Text Editor" is enabled it will show just the question.

Even after it's been submitted? It shows the code after submisison when I do it. I am using the Rich Text Editor because I only have a choice of two - that or the 'source', which is just html gobbledegook. Am I doing something wrong here JD?

This post is using the plain text editor - others use the Richj Text Editor - depends on who I am replying to it seems.

Test: f)7. What is ‘LFE + Main’ or ‘Double Bass’ and should I use it? (click here)

You are right - thanks. All I need to do now is to figure out how to always use the plain text editor.... confused.gif
post #54583 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

The f)7 line I just added above to your quote as a cut and paste from the doc.
Here is is again - f)7. What is ‘LFE + Main’ or ‘Double Bass’ and should I use it? (click here)
I am doing this as a straight cut and paste. It displays fine on my screen; what is it doing on yours?
Jeff

I can make it work if I use the horrid 'plain text editor' where all your text above is mixed up with code - see attachment to see what I see,

What I want to do is use the WYSIWYG editor, which is terrific, but it seems that when you do, it mucks up the links.

Ho hum.... I am beginning to pine for the old AVS I think....


Screen Shot 2012-06-17 at 10.12.08.jpg 106k .jpg file
post #54584 of 70884
^^
I just noticed the display difference when switching between the two editors using "Preferences". For me the original links don't even work correctly unless I change the post # from 51780 to 51800.

This one works using Firefox ....
2. What is the difference between the various versions of MultEQ? (click here)

This one doesn't as for some reason the 51780 get's converted to 51750 by the browser while logged in (although as a guest works just fine) ??? confused.gif
2. What is the difference between the various versions of MultEQ? (click here)
Edited by jdsmoothie - 6/17/12 at 3:54am
post #54585 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post


The f)7 line I just added above to your quote as a cut and paste from the doc.
Here is is again - f)7. What is ‘LFE + Main’ or ‘Double Bass’ and should I use it? (click here)
I am doing this as a straight cut and paste. It displays fine on my screen; what is it doing on yours?
Jeff

 

This is the editor I want to use Jeff (see attachment).  But when I do, the links don't work. I am starting to suspect a bug in the forum software...

 

Here is the same link I used before - not even freshly copied - just re-pasted from the clipboard:

 

[URL="http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/51780#user_f7"]f)7. What is ‘LFE + Main’ or ‘Double Bass’ and should I use it? (click here)[/URL]

 

Screen Shot 2012-06-17 at 10.19.24.jpg 96k .jpg file
post #54586 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
I just noticed the display difference when switching between the two editors using "Preferences". For me the original links don't even work correctly unless I change the post # from 51780 to 51800.
This one works using Firefox ....
2. What is the difference between the various versions of MultEQ? (click here)
This one doesn't for some reason (?)
2. What is the difference between the various versions of MultEQ? (click here)


They both look good here (in Firefox). WTF???  I am totally confused now. I may just give up and start posting the raw links...

 

I can more or less guarantee that this one will not work:

 

[URL="http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/51780#user_f7"]f)7. What is ‘LFE + Main’ or ‘Double Bass’ and should I use it? (click here)[/URL]

post #54587 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Dear, dear Feri.... I think the overall point was that we all hear and see potentially differently - but we don't class those differences as impairment. My own problem with my left eye having a warmer colour temperature than my right is is not an impairment - it is just a difference between one eye and another. And I would guess that my overall colour temperature in both eyes may be slightly different to yours - hence the need for objective calibration of displays using computer software and a colorimeter. I have already mentioned that Max can definitely localise bass down to 45Hz whereas I can definitely NOT localise bass below 80H - so ipso facto Max and I are hearing things differently. Neither of us is 'impaired' though as far as I can see - just different. Clearly from that example we do NOT all hear the same, despite the overall design of our ears being the same. I suspect that the differences occur after the ear 'hardware' and in the 'software' of the brain - Max's brain interprets what his ears physically hear somewhat differently than my own brain interprets what I physically hear. How else is it possible to explain that he can localise bass at 45Hz and I cannot? Neither of us is lying or mistaken, so the difference must be factual.

Hi Keith, glad to see we two are about to come to agreement, namely that the overall design of our ears is the same, and also glad to see we are moving forward to another level, a much more complex level called: perception (ear + brain together). This will make it much easier to follow this discussion (or more complicated, eh?). smile.gif.

As regards the ability of localizing bass down to 45 Hz or even lower it is pretty hard to understand if we solely approach it from relating ear distance on our head to wavelenghts. Notheless, I think many of us have read Chris K.'s excellent blog: Large vs. Small. Just as a reminder I will copy the relevant part:

Qte

"In the early days of home theater it was thought that in order to reproduce the full movie surround experience at home it was necessary to place 5 large loudspeakers in the room. The reason for the size was the woofers. To play at theatrical reference levels and reproduce the deepest bass available in the content requires each speaker to have 12” or larger woofers. Let’s just say that this theory didn’t get very far in the real world.

A better and more practical approach came after studying human perception. The mechanisms that we use to determine the direction of arrival of sound depend on the frequency. At high frequencies the wavelength of sound is small and so sound coming from the side is shadowed by our head. That creates a level difference between the sound reaching the ear closest to the source and the ear on the other side. Our brain analyzes these level differences and produces an estimate of where the sound is coming from. But at lower frequencies, the wavelength of sound gets longer and our head is not large enough to produce a level difference at the two ears. Instead, we analyze the difference in time of arrival of sound at the two ears. Sound arrives first at the closest ear and we use that to determine the direction. But even that ability fails us below about 80 Hz. The wavelengths get very large and it was found in listening tests that 80 Hz is the frequency below which most people can not localize the direction of sound."

Unqte

So this is the overall aprroach, though the blog carefully mentions "most people". Then, what can those do who can localize bass down to 45 Hz? Set the crossover to 45 Hz? How does that solve the issue? IMHO, in that case the localized bass reamins at the Mains, doesn't it? Localization not solved coz its still there, its not at the sub but at the Mains. Restrain of amps and speakers not solved either. Issue prevails.

Anyone with any idea, Keith, Max, batpig?
Edited by mogorf - 6/17/12 at 3:32am
post #54588 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

My own problem with my left eye having a warmer colour temperature than my right is not an impairment - it is just a difference between one eye and another. And I would guess that my overall colour temperature in both eyes may be slightly different to yours - hence the need for objective calibration of displays using computer software and a colorimeter.

Keith, how can you calibrate one single monitor to two different color termpeatures? Are you doing some kind of averaging? Just asking, I'm lost here!
post #54589 of 70884

Hi  Feri,

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post


Hi Keith, glad to see we two are about to come to agreement, namely that the overall design of our ears is the same, and also glad to see we are moving forward to another level, a much more complex level called: perception (ear + brain together). This will make it much easier to follow this discussion (or more complicated, eh?). smile.gif.

 

Well I definitely agree that we all share the same design of ears! (Mr Spock excluded of course).  Yes, any differences in perception clearly arise in the brain rather than in the ear, excluding people who have physical impairments in the design of their ears of course.

 

 

Quote:
So this is the overall aprroach, though the blog carefully mentions "most people". Then, what can those do who can localize bass down to 45 Hz? Set the crossover to 45 Hz? How does that solve the issue? IMHO, in that case the localized bass reamins at the Mains, doesn't it? Localization not solved coz its still there, its not at the sub but at the Mains. Restrain of amps and speakers not solved either. Issue prevails.
Anyone with any idea, Keith, Max, batpig?

 

I think the most important word there is "most". By using that word, Chris is implicitly suggesting that there are some people to whom this does not apply. Max is clearly one of them. I myself am in the "Joe Average" category and cannot localise bass below 80Hz and possibly not even below 100Hz. On a counterpoint, there have been various studies which seem to demonstrate that it is actually not all that unusual to be able to localise bass below 80Hz. Given my own incomplete understanding of all this, I listen to both sides but form no real hard and fast opinion on it.

 

You make a good point about what people who can localise bass down to 45Hz actually do about it. It may not be that the bass is at the mains if they cross over at 45Hz of course because their mains may not be able to convincingly reproduce 45Hz, but then if that was the case I guess they wouldn't actually cross over at 45Hz, so your point stands. And yes, it places considerably more strain on the amplifier etc.  So I have no ideas I am afraid, and I am just glad that my own ear-brain combination is designed to THX specifications smile.gif


 
post #54590 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post


Keith, how can you calibrate one single monitor to two different color termpeatures? Are you doing some kind of averaging? Just asking, I'm lost here!


I don't use my subjective 'eye view' to calibrate. I use Calman software and a colorimeter and simply adjust everything so that the various graphs are as good as my display can get them. IOW, there is no subjectivity to it - my colour temperature is very very close to 6500K (CIE D65), which is the correct standard. I know this because my hardware and software tells me it is so. This means I am seeing what the content creator intended me to see. It doesn’t matter if I see D65 sightly differently to everyone else - D65 is the colour of the noon sun in Western Europe (daylight) and so if I see a daylight scene on my display, once it has been correctly calibrated to D65 then I am seeing a daylight scene exactly as I would see it in real life.

 

In everyday life, when I use both eyes at the same time, I get an average of the two - I do not see two distinctly different images. I can only observe the issue if I close first one eye and then the other while looking at a white piece of paper or something similar. With my right eye, the white is warmer than it is with my left eye. (I got that the other way around when I mentioned it before, but this is the correct way around now). I suspect many people see colours differently to the way the rest if us see them too - it is impossible to describe a colour so it is difficult to discover how others see that red apple that I am looking at right now. The redness of the apple may be slightly more or less red when you observe it. It isn’t even useful to measure the wavelength of the light coming from the apple and saying "that apple is X red" because the interpretation may be in our brains not in our physical eyes. There are no apparent abnormalities in either of my eyes when examined by an opthamologist using the very latest computer technology - all my rods and cones and so on are just the same as everyone elses', so the assumption is that it is the brain that is interpreting differently what it sees via my left eye and my right eye. Don't think that this is a massive difference or massive issue for me - it isn't. The difference is easily noticeable but it is subtle and it has been present all of my adult life. Something similar happens to most people as they get older and their lenses change - the gradual onset of cataracts causes a shift in colour perception and this is something most people immediately notice when they have artificial lens implanted to replace their cataractal lens.

 

We are way off topic so I apologise to everyone and ask for their tolerance on this occasion. Now back to Audyssey..... :)

post #54591 of 70884
^^^

Keith, out of curiosity, which is your dominant eye (see below)? I would expect that the dominant eye would have a greater influence on how you perceive the color temperature of your video display.

1. Extend your arms in front of you with your palms facing away.

2. Bring your hands together, forming a small hole by crossing the thumbs and fore fingers.

3. Choose a small object about 15-20 feet away from you. With both eyes open, focus on the object as you look through the small hole.

4. Close one eye and then the other. When you close one eye, the object will be stationary. When you close the other eye, the object should disappear from the hole or jump to one side.

5. If the object does not move when you cover one eye, then that eye is dominant. The eye that sees the object and does not move is the dominant eye.


(from http://vision.about.com/od/contactlenses/ht/Eye_Dominance.htm)
post #54592 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

^^^
Keith, out of curiosity, which is your dominant eye (see below)? I would expect that the dominant eye would have a greater influence on how you perceive the color temperature of your video display.

1. Extend your arms in front of you with your palms facing away.
2. Bring your hands together, forming a small hole by crossing the thumbs and fore fingers.
3. Choose a small object about 15-20 feet away from you. With both eyes open, focus on the object as you look through the small hole.
4. Close one eye and then the other. When you close one eye, the object will be stationary. When you close the other eye, the object should disappear from the hole or jump to one side.
5. If the object does not move when you cover one eye, then that eye is dominant. The eye that sees the object and does not move is the dominant eye.

(from http://vision.about.com/od/contactlenses/ht/Eye_Dominance.htm)

 

My dominant eye is my left eye - the one with the cooler 'colour temperature'.  Vision in both eyes is similar at better than 20-20. I do have to wear glasses for reading though (age!).  My left eye is the most accurate for colour temp I believe.

 

Interestingly (maybe), I am sort of 'occudextrous' by which I mean that when, for example, taking aim on a rifle sight, I can use either eye more or less equally.

post #54593 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

one thing i will never understand... many insist on crossing over too low, because they don't want to "waste" their main speakers...

of course, by doing so, they are "wasting" their sub, which is almost certainly more competent at producing those frequencies...

smile.gif  It's a weird 'perception' thing I guess which ignores the actual science and reasoning behind our recommendations. And of course, by forcing the main speakers to try to reproduce frequencies they can’t handle, at levels they can't reach, they really are 'wasting' their main speakers, in the sense that they are causing them to work less well than they actually could.

the funny thing about this is the idea that you are "wasting" the speakers' performance because you aren't pushing them to their absolute extreme limits of performance. I mean, are you "wasting" your BMW because you aren't pushing it to the redline constantly? The speakers are covering, what, like 8-9 octaves? And all you are doing is relieving them of the very lowest one which is the most difficult to produce..... and, of course, it's also the octave for which you dropped hundreds (or thousands) of dollars on a subwoofer!

i wonder if that would work on a gendarme... "officer, i was only going that fast because i didn't want to waste my car"... tongue.gif since jersey staties aren't known for their sense of humor to begin with, i don't think it would be advisable to try that in the garden state... biggrin.gif

yup... one would think that would be intuitively obvious, wouldn't one? and even if it isn't intuitively obvious to all, it shouldn't be difficult to understand once it is explained...

there are 2 fundamental reasons why, regardless of how friggin awesome your mains are, it is wise to do as "we" are advising...

- mechanically, the very obvious capability of a subwoofer to move more air than the main speakers...

- acoustically, short of having a room the size of an auditorium, the octave being discussed falls within the modal range...

that's basically it... everything else we discuss is how to optimize those two fundamentals...

yet... some continue to be, ummm, misguided....
Edited by ccotenj - 6/17/12 at 6:44am
post #54594 of 70884

Keith, when you say "the one with the cooler 'colour temperature'", do you mean a higher color temp, like 7000K compared to 6500K, or 

6000K compared to 6500K. ?

Technically, a "cooler" colour temp. is a lower temp, when it goes yellow-red-ish.

ex.: a red star is much cooler than a blue star.

post #54595 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by wingnut4772 View Post

Yes. Analog is better.
Just talkin' music here so far...
Sure, and it comes down to which DACs are better - the ones in the Oppo or in the 80.3. You're choice indicates the Oppo, but there might be level differences that are "sweetening" the Oppo's sound.
post #54596 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I can make it work if I use the horrid 'plain text editor' where all your text above is mixed up with code - see attachment to see what I see,
What I want to do is use the WYSIWYG editor, which is terrific, but it seems that when you do, it mucks up the links.
Ho hum.... I am beginning to pine for the old AVS I think....
Screen Shot 2012-06-17 at 10.12.08.jpg 106k .jpg file
Or mentally look "through" the code to the underlying text. And only "see" the code when you need to fiddle with it.

Jeff
post #54597 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gellidius View Post

Keith, when you say "the one with the cooler 'colour temperature'", do you mean a higher color temp, like 7000K compared to 6500K, or 
6000K compared to 6500K. ?
Technically, a "cooler" colour temp. is a lower temp, when it goes yellow-red-ish.
ex.: a red star is much cooler than a blue star.

I think the way you state it is a little confusing, but I know what you mean:

A "cool" (bluish) color temperature is associated with a higher degree Kelvin reading (e.g., over 5000 degrees Kelvin), compared to a warm-red col;or temperature, which are at lower Kelvin readings. There are many internet sources with this information:

http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/ColorTemp
http://www.aeimages.com/learn/color-correction.html
post #54598 of 70884

the reason i asked that is the fact that the terms "cool" and "warm" have no place when discussing colour temperature.

 

a high temp is towards the blue end of the spectrum; it's not "cool", it's hot, very hot, compared to a low temp,

which is towards the red end of the spectrum; it's not warm, but very cold (cool) compared to a high temp.

 

saying a 2800K light bulb is warm only applies to associations with hot objects, like a fire, and has nothing to do with color temp.

 

hope this is easier to understand and that Keith will answer my question.    

post #54599 of 70884
The color temperature terminology used when discussing art (including photography, video, etc) is the opposite of that used when discussing physics (including astronomy, cosmology, etc). Different fields of endeavor use different jargon. You just have to get used to it and choose the appropriate terminology depending on the audience.
post #54600 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

In my case, "waste" means real money. My speaker manufacturer (PSB) makes a tower and a bookshelf speaker that are essentially the same, except for the number of bass drivers and the rated low end. The difference in cost is $1,500 per speaker. I purchased the tower model. Above 80 Hz, the two models perform essentially the same. So, since I set the crossovers at 80 Hz, I could have had the same results using the bookshelf model, saving myself $3,000... Hindsight is a bitch.

I remember Chris saying he didn't understand why anyone would buy tower speakers any more (for home theater, that is).

if that was "me chris", yup... smile.gif if it was chris k., he is a wise man to agree with me... tongue.gif

the only reason i have tower speakers now is because my wife insisted upon it*... when i decided i was ready to make a significant upgrade from my sierras, i was going to get bookshelves for sure... not only because of what we've been discussing, but i've always found bookshelves much "friendlier" wrt to placement... not to mention much friendlier to move... redface.gif more bang for the buck... and with the advent of the id model (along with sites such as avs that provide them with essentially free advertising), there has been a TON of good bookshelves made available to the average consumer today...

to be completely honest, as much as i like what i have, i still would have been "happier" with bookshelves... not that i'm complaining, just being honest...

*she likes big speakers.... i hope it's not because of the willy waving jeff referenced, otherwise, that could be interpreted as a, ummm, not so complimentary comment about me... redface.giffrown.gif
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Receivers, Amps, and Processors
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › "Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779)