or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › "Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 1901

post #57001 of 70911
I have read about Reference Level Offset in Dynamic EQ and still little unclear to me how exactly it works. On my NAD i have 0 to +15 db adjustment. from what i understand when i have set at 0 the dynamic EQ is playing at the reference level . now when i increase it to lets say 10db it seems like it reduces the Dynamic (bass output) . i usually watch my TV at around -25to -32db volume on AVR. also the the dynamic EQ works on all 5.1 speakers or mainly on subwoofer.?
post #57002 of 70911
Quote:
Originally Posted by nosferatu2xlc View Post

I have read about Reference Level Offset in Dynamic EQ and still little unclear to me how exactly it works. On my NAD i have 0 to +15 db adjustment. from what i understand when i have set at 0 the dynamic EQ is playing at the reference level . now when i increase it to lets say 10db it seems like it reduces the Dynamic (bass output) . i usually watch my TV at around -25to -32db volume on AVR. also the the dynamic EQ works on all 5.1 speakers or mainly on subwoofer.?

 

Dynamic EQ works on all speakers and is especially beneficial on the subs and surrounds.  At reference - 0dB on the volume control in a calibrated system, DEQ has no effect at all. As the volume is reduced, so DEQ comes more and more into play. If you set a Reference Level Offset, it 'tricks' your AVR into thinking it is at reference level when it is actually at -5dB, -10dB or -15dB. So the effect of DEQ disappears at a volume control setting of -10 if you have, for example, set a RLO of 10dB.

 

Have a look at the FAQ links below for a more detailed explanation:

 

g)2.   What is Dynamic EQ?


g)3.   What is Reference Level Offset in Dynamic EQ?


g)4.   What's the difference between Dynamic Volume, Dynamic EQ & Reference Level Offset?

post #57003 of 70911
Two questions.

MY apologies if these two have already been covered.

1.) Dynamic EQ.

Out of curiosity does anyone know what happens when dynamic EQ is engaged and your Master Fader Level is above the Reference Level offset.
IE if I set a RLO to 15DB and my Master Fader is -5DB?

2.) Audyssey Measurements and Graphs

If it wasn't for this forum I probably wouldn't be asking this question. LOL!!!

I recently purchased a Denon AVR-4311CI. I love it!!!. After everything was connected I ran Audyssey in all 8 positions. The first thing I noticed is that compared to my old Denon 3808 the Bass was a lot tighter, and also at a lower volume level. The sound from the speakers was also a lot brighter. Not overly or painfully bright, but noticeably brighter than what Audyssey XT output on my 3808. I took a look at the Audyysey EQ parameter check and was taken back by all the High Frequency Correction.

MY current setup consists of all Klipsch Refrence Speakers

Mains RF 3 II
Center RF-35
Surround RS-52
Surround Back RB-51 II

I thought Klipsch speakers were known for their brightness, so after seeing these measurements I became concerned

Anyhow, I wanted to ask if these results are typical of Audyssey XT 32 and or Klipsch owners.

Room L x W x H
22.5 x 10.5 x 7.5
Carpeted floor.
Two couches
No Room Treatments.

Thank you for your time.




post #57004 of 70911
1) Dynamic EQ not only boosts the freq response when you are below reference, it also REDUCES the freq response (mostly bass but also treble) when you are ABOVE reference. Whatever the reference is set to (0, -5, -10, or -15) will be the only point at which Dyn EQ is not active.

2) The comment of "lean bass, brighter treble" is actually pretty common with XT32 and has been discussed plenty in the 4311ci owner's thread. There is a possibility of a defective microphone at play, and additionally some theorize that XT32, with its much greater resolving power, is more "sensitive" than lower versions of MultEQ to things like speaker toe-in and mic positioning. You might find this question from the FAQ useful:

a)9. Why are my high frequencies 'bright' or 'harsh' since running Audyssey?

having experience calibrating a 4311ci (both with a defective mic and not!) I would recommend the following tips next time you run Audyssey:

- do your best to ensure that all speakers are toed-in and aimed as much as possible at the "sweet spot"
- make sure the microphone tip is NOT higher than the tweeters of any speakers
- keep the mic positions grouped in a tight pattern (2ft radius max) around the first "sweet spot" position
- make sure the mic is not close to any reflective surfaces or boundaries (e.g. walls, leather couch cushions)
post #57005 of 70911
Thanks a lot BatPig.

I am certain that my mic position definitely is higher than the tweeters in my front speakers.

MY center speaker is under my TV, so there not much I can do there.


New Audyssey calibration here I come!!!
post #57006 of 70911
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumble Devo View Post

Thanks a lot BatPig.
I am certain that my mic position definitely is higher than the tweeters in my front speakers.
MY center speaker is under my TV, so there not much I can do there.
New Audyssey calibration here I come!!!

Pardon me if it's been said but that center channel speaker should be aimed UP at listeners' ears when seated. And actually the mic should not be much above where the speakers are aimed. If they are not aimed up or down then not above the tweeters is a valid way to describe it.

Jeff
post #57007 of 70911
the idea here is to get the tip of the microphone as close to "on axis" for the tweeters as possible. In general high freq's will fall off rapidly as you go off axis, so the further off axis you get, the more Audyssey will want to "boost" the treble to achieve the target curve. Keeping the cluster of mic positions tighter will also help in this regard.

as Jeff notes, do anything possible to angle the center up towards ear level if it's currently below...
post #57008 of 70911
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumble Devo View Post

Thanks a lot BatPig.
I am certain that my mic position definitely is higher than the tweeters in my front speakers.
MY center speaker is under my TV, so there not much I can do there.
New Audyssey calibration here I come!!!

Pardon me if it's been said but that center channel speaker should be aimed UP at listeners' ears when seated. And actually the mic should not be much above where the speakers are aimed. If they are not aimed up or down then not above the tweeters is a valid way to describe it.

Jeff

 

Good clarification, Jeff. My S150s sit on the low M&K ST1 stands which puts the speakers physically well below ear height, but they are all aimed precisely at ear height (this is the opposite of the way you often see S150s used in a mixing room environment where they are mounted quite a way up above ear height and pointed down - these configurations are approved by M&K as you know). The mic is positioned at the point where the speakers are aimed. My results are excellent using this methodology.  As Rumble observes, most people find their centre speaker is below ear height! I think that a combination of batpig's dictum and your clarification is spot on: put the mic no higher than the physical location of the tweeters or at the location where the speakers are aimed. I will make this amendment to the FAQ as soon as I have chance. 

post #57009 of 70911
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

 

Good clarification, Jeff. My S150s sit on the low M&K ST1 stands which puts the speakers physically well below ear height, but they are all aimed precisely at ear height (this is the opposite of the way you often see S150s used in a mixing room environment where they are mounted quite a way up above ear height and pointed down - these configurations are approved by M&K as you know). The mic is positioned at the point where the speakers are aimed. My results are excellent using this methodology.  As Rumble observes, most people find their centre speaker is below ear height! I think that a combination of batpig's dictum and your clarification is spot on: put the mic no higher than the physical location of the tweeters or at the location where the speakers are aimed. I will make this amendment to the FAQ as soon as I have chance. 

 

It's difficult to make a statement that applies in all situations.  Take my main speakers (PSB Synchrony One's):

 

 

 

This speaker has the tweeter below the mid-range driver.  The tweeter is 28 inches off the floor, and my ear height is 35 inches.  A tower cannot be easily tilted upwards.  So, in my case I would not set the mic height to 28 inches, I keep it at 35 inches.  Are you suggesting this is wrong?

 

Edit: This is what I am recommending:

 

As a general guideline, the tweeter should be at the same height as the listener’s ears when seated at the MLP.  The microphone should also be placed at the listener’s ear height.  For small speakers which are mounted above, or sit on lower stands, where the tweeter is either above or below the listener’s ear height, it is recommended that the speaker be angled down (or up) so that the tweeter points to where the seated listener’s ears are.  Some speaker designs result in the tweeter at a different height than the listener’s ears, and may not lend themselves to angling, in which case the microphone height should still be the same as the listener’s ear height.


Edited by AustinJerry - 10/13/12 at 5:25am
post #57010 of 70911
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

 

Good clarification, Jeff. My S150s sit on the low M&K ST1 stands which puts the speakers physically well below ear height, but they are all aimed precisely at ear height (this is the opposite of the way you often see S150s used in a mixing room environment where they are mounted quite a way up above ear height and pointed down - these configurations are approved by M&K as you know). The mic is positioned at the point where the speakers are aimed. My results are excellent using this methodology.  As Rumble observes, most people find their centre speaker is below ear height! I think that a combination of batpig's dictum and your clarification is spot on: put the mic no higher than the physical location of the tweeters or at the location where the speakers are aimed. I will make this amendment to the FAQ as soon as I have chance. 

 

It's difficult to make a statement that applies in all situations.  Take my main speakers (PSB Synchrony One's):

 

 

 

This speaker has the tweeter below the mid-range driver.  The tweeter is 28 inches off the floor, and my ear height is 35 inches.  A tower cannot be easily tilted upwards.  So, in my case I would not set the mic height to 28 inches, I keep it at 35 inches.  Are you suggesting this is wrong?

 

Not suggesting it is 'wrong' Jerry. More saying that ideally the mic would be at ear height, which would be synonymous with tweeter height. As I said, I cannot arrange that here with my own speakers, but they are indeed angled towards the MLP, as recommended by M&K. It may well be, for all I know, that tower speaker manufacturers have already taken care of the issue because, as you say, you cannot really alter the height of the tweeter (as you can with stand-mounts) nor tilt them very easily. I guess it would be possible to fabricate a sort of wedge to put under the base but I am sure if this was necessary someone would be manufacturing appropriate wedges. I certainly, if I had your speakers, would keep the mic at 35 inches. I guess this may be one of the many areas where we tend to overthink things - your ears and your measurements tell you that the SQ in your room is superb, so why worry?

post #57011 of 70911
AustinJerry,

It seems likely that high quality speakers like those are designed to be used with the listener's ears not on the axis of the tweeters, perhaps having tweeters with a very broad dispersion.

Do you have any way to measure their audio output? (e.g. a computer with a microphone and one of the spectrum analysis programs like REW?) I think it would be interesting to find out if high frequencies really are louder at the height of the tweeters than at the normal listening height. You could try just listening to them, but the difference might be subtle enough to be misleading. If the difference is that subtle, though, listening off axis really doesn't matter.
post #57012 of 70911
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Good clarification, Jeff. My S150s sit on the low M&K ST1 stands which puts the speakers physically well below ear height, but they are all aimed precisely at ear height (this is the opposite of the way you often see S150s used in a mixing room environment where they are mounted quite a way up above ear height and pointed down - these configurations are approved by M&K as you know). The mic is positioned at the point where the speakers are aimed. My results are excellent using this methodology.  As Rumble observes, most people find their centre speaker is below ear height! I think that a combination of batpig's dictum and your clarification is spot on: put the mic no higher than the physical location of the tweeters or at the location where the speakers are aimed. I will make this amendment to the FAQ as soon as I have chance. 

 

FAQ updated in line with above.

 

d)3.   Where should I position the mic for best results?

post #57013 of 70911
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post



Edit: This is what I am recommending:

As a general guideline, the tweeter should be at the same height as the listener’s ears when seated at the MLP.  The microphone should also be placed at the listener’s ear height.  For small speakers which are mounted above, or sit on lower stands, where the tweeter is either above or below the listener’s ear height, it is recommended that the speaker be angled down (or up) so that the tweeter points to where the seated listener’s ears are.  Some speaker designs result in the tweeter at a different height than the listener’s ears, and may not lend themselves to angling, in which case the microphone height should still be the same as the listener’s ear height.
Exactly!

WRT your speakers, have you researched their polar response? Have you ever tried tilting them up a bit? Unless they are designed to compensate for 28" high tweeters "addressing" ~36" high listener ears, you *may* find that they sound better if they are canted upward. Just tossin' that out there ... smile.gif

Jeff
post #57014 of 70911
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Exactly!
WRT your speakers, have you researched their polar response? Have you ever tried tilting them up a bit? Unless they are designed to compensate for 28" high tweeters "addressing" ~36" high listener ears, you *may* find that they sound better if they are canted upward. Just tossin' that out there ... smile.gif
Jeff

I haven't experimented, Jeff. But I did talk to PSB, and they said that the dispersion pattern was designed such that a listener sitting 30-40 inches off of the floor would be perfectly OK. I really don't want to tilt a tower--it would be unstable.
post #57015 of 70911
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post



Edit: This is what I am recommending:

As a general guideline, the tweeter should be at the same height as the listener’s ears when seated at the MLP.  The microphone should also be placed at the listener’s ear height.  For small speakers which are mounted above, or sit on lower stands, where the tweeter is either above or below the listener’s ear height, it is recommended that the speaker be angled down (or up) so that the tweeter points to where the seated listener’s ears are.  Some speaker designs result in the tweeter at a different height than the listener’s ears, and may not lend themselves to angling, in which case the microphone height should still be the same as the listener’s ear height.
Exactly!

WRT your speakers, have you researched their polar response? Have you ever tried tilting them up a bit? Unless they are designed to compensate for 28" high tweeters "addressing" ~36" high listener ears, you *may* find that they sound better if they are canted upward. Just tossin' that out there ... smile.gif

Jeff

 

I'd have thought that the speaker manufacturer would have taken this into account - after all, not many peoples' seating arrangements will put their ears at 28 inches off the floor. Paul Barton is a very well respected Canadian speaker designer and I'd be amazed if he hadn't factored this in somehow when considering the dispersion characteristics of the speaker. But of course, ICEBW ;)

post #57016 of 70911
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

I haven't experimented, Jeff. But I did talk to PSB, and they said that the dispersion pattern was designed such that a listener sitting 30-40 inches off of the floor would be perfectly OK. I really don't want to tilt a tower--it would be unstable.

OK, you did research it and they seem to be designed for use as you have them placed. In this case, and with all similar speakers, measurement mic at listener ear height is correct.

Jeff
post #57017 of 70911
^I'm not suggesting you need to worry about this one bit, but if anyone was so inclined, these Soundocity outriggers would be the way to go to tilt towers.
post #57018 of 70911
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

^I'm not suggesting you need to worry about this one bit, but if anyone was so inclined, these Soundocity outriggers would be the way to go to tilt towers.

 

SoM, where have you been?  The web site is interesting, not because I want to tilt my towers, but because the outriggers add stablility to the towers.  I have been looking for such products but for some reason my searches never found anything like this.  Thanks for sharing.

post #57019 of 70911
^Jerry, I've been so busy with work (that dang job in the nonvirtual world!) and preparing for the new TV install that I can hardly keep up with reading threads much lest post. Glad to be of help, I can recommend the product- well-constructed and cool looking but not inexpensive.
post #57020 of 70911
What I am worried about (which I shouldn't; I plan upgrading to 11.2...9.2 receiver with two massive block amps for my AR's)
I have looked at the 7.1 Audyssey set up...it has LF, RF, C, LFE, LS, RS...then the other two channels are the LWF, and RWF.
So instead of having the Surround Backs as we are used to, the Standard Surround's are still in place, and the Surround Backs are gone...and the Front Wide's are added...at the Audyssey website, that is their 7.1 setup (9.2 and 11.2 have several options; and using that 7.1 stays the same and you add FW's and Fbottom, and Ftop,s.
Are we supposed to move the Surround's to the FW position, and the Surround backs to the Surround (90-120 degrees) slot.
I agree that the FW's make more sense than our old SB, 7.1 setups. But.....
Any movie in 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1 were designed with the Surround Back's in place and no Front Wide's.
I guess I would like to know...do I do a regular 7.1 setup (dts now has the neural tech, but only to 7.1)? The Audyssey setup, is very clear that there are no Surround Backs, the Surrounds are in the usual 90-120 degree marker, (I prefer the Surrounds at 90 degrees in a 7.1 setup, and 120 in a 5.1)...do I hook up according to their 7.1 setup?
Does it mean the Surrounds are moved to Front Wides, and the Surround Backs to the Surround position?
Or do I leave the Surrounds (I'd move em from 90 to 120 degrees, if this is right), and move the Surround Backs to the Front Wide position?
There are 2-3 options for 9.2 and 11.2...
Does anyone have an idea which is best using Audyssey?...the option with the 11.2 receiver I'm planning on getting from Santa (hopefully the mono amps for the AR's)...common sense says to just follow the receivers instructions (I think 7.1, as we are used to; and the addition of Front Wides and the Front Bottom and Top looks best)
Is that a correct assumption?
This is a tricky one.
My AR-15's are about 6 feet tall, and they can be used in a bi-amp setup...the 2 12" woofers (they hit at 18 Hz...better than any sub I've had), and the 8" midbass follow one channel, and the various mids and tweets follow the other if they are in a bi-amp setup.
I don't see the use of Front Bottom and Front Top positioning with speakers that tall.
Would I be as insane as I'm thinking if I used bi-amp mode...
(OOPS; embarrassing mistake...I have AR9's not 15's...man; I guess not using them for almost 20 years affects memory.)
Back to my insanity question...the AR's need positioning that rivals a Klipsch THX theatre setup; even the owner can not touch the speakers; could I use the AR's bi-amp mode (the Front Bottom would include the 12" acoustc suspension subwoofers/woofers, (at 18 dB/octave 18-low 200 Hz range) and the 8" high temp, acoustic suspension lower midrange, (6 dB/octave on lower midrange at 200 Hz, and 12 dB/octave at 1200 Hz), the upper midrange at (12 dB/octave at 1200 Hz and 7000 Hz, and 18 dB/octave on the highrange at 7000 Hz).
I can adjust the lower and upper midrange to -6, -3, or 0 dB. Mainly to fix things like a drape getting in the way of certain frequencies; this is also possible for the highrange.
Is using the bottom half of the speakers for the FB's and the top half for the FT's??
Also these were designed, post quadraphonic, and pre Pro-Logic, to be a stereo surround effect. I also have a Carver C-9 Sonic Hologram Generator, that I may use, if I don't use bi amp mode.
Any help?
I know, it's a lot.
Also...I know Neural tech looks for "watermarks".
Does it also "know" how to decode matrix tech? If so, which ones?
post #57021 of 70911
What I am worried about (which I shouldn't; I plan upgrading to 11.2...9.2 receiver with two massive block amps for my AR's)
I have looked at the 7.1 Audyssey set up...it has LF, RF, C, LFE, LS, RS...then the other two channels are the LWF, and RWF.
So instead of having the Surround Backs as we are used to, the Standard Surround's are still in place, and the Surround Backs are gone...and the Front Wide's are added...at the Audyssey website, that is their 7.1 setup (9.2 and 11.2 have several options; and using that 7.1 stays the same and you add FW's and Fbottom, and Ftop,s.
Are we supposed to move the Surround's to the FW position, and the Surround backs to the Surround (90-120 degrees) slot.
I agree that the FW's make more sense than our old SB, 7.1 setups. But.....
Any movie in 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1 were designed with the Surround Back's in place and no Front Wide's.
I guess I would like to know...do I do a regular 7.1 setup (dts now has the neural tech, but only to 7.1)? The Audyssey setup, is very clear that there are no Surround Backs, the Surrounds are in the usual 90-120 degree marker, (I prefer the Surrounds at 90 degrees in a 7.1 setup, and 120 in a 5.1)...do I hook up according to their 7.1 setup?
Does it mean the Surrounds are moved to Front Wides, and the Surround Backs to the Surround position?
Or do I leave the Surrounds (I'd move em from 90 to 120 degrees, if this is right), and move the Surround Backs to the Front Wide position?
There are 2-3 options for 9.2 and 11.2...
Does anyone have an idea which is best using Audyssey?...the option with the 11.2 receiver I'm planning on getting from Santa (hopefully the mono amps for the AR's)...common sense says to just follow the receivers instructions (I think 7.1, as we are used to; and the addition of Front Wides and the Front Bottom and Top looks best)
Is that a correct assumption?
This is a tricky one.
My AR-15's are about 6 feet tall, and they can be used in a bi-amp setup...the 2 12" woofers (they hit at 18 Hz...better than any sub I've had), and the 8" midbass follow one channel, and the various mids and tweets follow the other if they are in a bi-amp setup.
I don't see the use of Front Bottom and Front Top positioning with speakers that tall.
Would I be as insane as I'm thinking if I used bi-amp mode...
(OOPS; embarrassing mistake...I have AR9's not 15's...man; I guess not using them for almost 20 years affects memory.)
Back to my insanity question...the AR's need positioning that rivals a Klipsch THX theatre setup; even the owner can not touch the speakers; could I use the AR's bi-amp mode (the Front Bottom would include the 12" acoustc suspension subwoofers/woofers, (at 18 dB/octave 18-low 200 Hz range) and the 8" high temp, acoustic suspension lower midrange, (6 dB/octave on lower midrange at 200 Hz, and 12 dB/octave at 1200 Hz), the upper midrange at (12 dB/octave at 1200 Hz and 7000 Hz, and 18 dB/octave on the highrange at 7000 Hz).
I can adjust the lower and upper midrange to -6, -3, or 0 dB. Mainly to fix things like a drape getting in the way of certain frequencies; this is also possible for the highrange.
Is using the bottom half of the speakers for the FB's and the top half for the FT's??
Also these were designed, post quadraphonic, and pre Pro-Logic, to be a stereo surround effect. I also have a Carver C-9 Sonic Hologram Generator, that I may use, if I don't use bi amp mode.
Any help?
I know, it's a lot.
Also...I know Neural tech looks for "watermarks".
Does it also "know" how to decode matrix tech? If so, which ones?
post #57022 of 70911
Hello. As some other people here I have problem with bright/harsh sound and loss of bass after Audyssey calibration (Onkyo TX-NR818). I took another ACM1HB from a store to test and after re-calibration I can hear the little difference, but the whole picture is the same. While the over-compensation of high frequencies doesn't sound that bad it is still obvious. The levels with new mic and everything other unchanged was set 1.5 2.0 dB above my mic, but the subwoofer have deviated a bit and was set 2.5 dB above, not much a difference, but still can be interesting.

So, I found recommendation in FAQ to try to measure mic with REW, so I downloaded it and here is the results. First I measured both mics with Audyssey Off and Audyssey Music (calibrated by Mic 2 - the mic from the store):


You can see 3-4 dB gain at 2 kHz here and gain up to 4 dB starting from 4kHz. Also bellow 600 Hz there is a lot of dips and climbs done by Audyssey compared to untouched speaker response. Most notable are 6dB boost at ~150Hz and 5dB reduction at 70Hz. What is interesting here is to compare the mics. Their response is identical on most of the range if not to mention the constant difference in 1.5-2 dB, except the very strange behavior around 50 Hz.

So... Then I re-calibrated receiver back with my original mic, but done it this time placing mic not on ear height, but at the height of tweeter (I have floor-standing Monitor Audio RX6 and ear height is about 20cm higher than tweeter height), and again measured both mics from the same tweeter-height position. Here came more differences and more interesting things (I also measured them with Audyssey Movie curve this time):



Unfortunately I forgot to turn off Dinamic EQ, so comparing with previous graphs is not meaningful.. But Here I can see that there is no such obvious boost at 2kHz on Movie curve comparing to Music curve. So, probably Movie curve is more appropriate for listening music than Music curve (which is confirmed by previous listening experience). And there is something irregular happening below 70 Hz again. What makes me wonder is a dip at 70Hz, without it the curve would look more like a constant roll-off bellow 300 Hz. Does it seem like Audyssey improperly corrects this frequency area? Or is this dip the natural curve of the mic?

Is there anybody here who measured their working of faulty Audyssey microphones? What do you think about this curves? I hardly believe Audyssey need a whole 6dB boost to compensate high frequencies on my speakers, they are bright enough by themselves and the room is also very bright.
post #57023 of 70911
I need some clarification for setting up a 5.2 system.

I'm using a Onkyo 818 receiver, and will be using the LFE outputs to run to 2 subwoofers.

Both subwoofers will be placed equal distance and symmetrical from the main listening position (sides of the room 2/3 towards the front.

The 818 uses Audessey XT32

However the dual sub outs are simply an internal Y splitter, distance measurements, phase etc are done as though it is a single signal going out.
for this reason I am keeping the sub distance and position the same. What I am confused about is volume.

Audessey is going to ask me to adjust the gain to reach 75db. This will be hard to do with 2 subs.I could have one sub at 65db and the other turned up to 75db and get the OK from Audessey.

So I was thinking of running with only 1 sub turned on. Adjust it to 75db, then turn it off and adjust the other to 75db.

I assume the combined output would be more like 78db with both turned on. at that point can I leave the subs at that adjustment and hope audessey reduces the gain by 3db ?
post #57024 of 70911
Quote:
So I was thinking of running with only 1 sub turned on. Adjust it to 75db, then turn it off and adjust the other to 75db.

I assume the combined output would be more like 78db with both turned on. at that point can I leave the subs at that adjustment and hope audessey reduces the gain by 3db ?

correct, you can use the built-in level adjustment to set each sub individually. Then during calibration the combined level will be set appropriately (it will measure the summed response).
post #57025 of 70911
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaijordan View Post

What I am worried about (which I shouldn't; I plan upgrading to 11.2...9.2 receiver with two massive block amps for my AR's)
I have looked at the 7.1 Audyssey set up...it has LF, RF, C, LFE, LS, RS...then the other two channels are the LWF, and RWF. BLAH BLAH BLAH .... zzzzzz

way too long bro wink.gif I faded out about half-way through....

simple answer: Audyssey's pictures are a RECOMMENDATION. Not a requirement. They are advertising their product (DSX) so of course they are going to show you diagrams of speakers that utilize their product (heights + wides). Why would they have you read their DSX page and then show you a diagram of a standard 7ch setup that DOESN'T use DSX?

what will work best will depend on YOUR room, YOUR speakers, and YOUR ears. So feel free to experiment smile.gif
post #57026 of 70911
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

way too long bro wink.gif I faded out about half-way through....
simple answer: Audyssey's pictures are a RECOMMENDATION. Not a requirement. They are advertising their product (DSX) so of course they are going to show you diagrams of speakers that utilize their product (heights + wides). Why would they have you read their DSX page and then show you a diagram of a standard 7ch setup that DOESN'T use DSX?
what will work best will depend on YOUR room, YOUR speakers, and YOUR ears. So feel free to experiment smile.gif


Very interesting. I am going to have a 7.2 setup. So moving the sides to from and rears to sides is something people do?
post #57027 of 70911
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaijordan View Post

Are we supposed to move the Surround's to the FW position, and the Surround backs to the Surround (90-120 degrees) slot.
I agree that the FW's make more sense than our old SB, 7.1 setups. But.....

 

 

You connect the front wides to the front wide outputs on your AVR and the surround back and surround speakers to the SB and surround outputs respectively. Not sure what you mean by moving the surrounds to the FW position etc etc, but the objective is to connect the appropriate speakers to the appropriate outputs as I describe. Audyssey say that FWs are more important than SBs (they would, wouldn’t they?) but many people disagree with that. If your AVR supports it you can of course have FW and SB at the same time.

 

Quote:
I guess I would like to know...do I do a regular 7.1 setup (dts now has the neural tech, but only to 7.1)? The Audyssey setup, is very clear that there are no Surround Backs, the Surrounds are in the usual 90-120 degree marker, (I prefer the Surrounds at 90 degrees in a 7.1 setup, and 120 in a 5.1)...do I hook up according to their 7.1 setup?

 

 

You do whatever suits you best and what you have room for and what your AVR supports. If you are using a conventional 7.1 setup you can position the surrounds at 9 degrees and you will get a great result. Some people using 7.1 prefer the surrounds slightly in front of the 90 degree position. Experiment and see which you prefer - there are no hard and fast rules here because all rooms and all speaker combinations are different, but your current 90/120 7.1/5.1 positions are good.

 

Quote:
Does it mean the Surrounds are moved to Front Wides, and the Surround Backs to the Surround position?

 

 

No. It means you connect them as I say above - to the appropriate AVR outlets. Not really sure what you mean by 'move' the surrounds to FW etc.

 

Quote:
Would I be as insane as I'm thinking if I used bi-amp mode...

 

 

Not insane but it's pointless unless you have external active crossovers and you can remove the passive crossovers in the speakers.

post #57028 of 70911
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post


Very interesting. I am going to have a 7.2 setup. So moving the sides to front and rears to sides is something people do?

 

No, it isn't.

post #57029 of 70911
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

No, it isn't.

Hmmm I guess I'll have to try it out. The front wides that is and see how it compares to the rears
post #57030 of 70911
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post

Very interesting. I am going to have a 7.2 setup. So moving the sides to from and rears to sides is something people do?

Let me see if I understand. You currently have side surrounds and rear surrounds in a 7.1 configuration. And you want to experiment with DSX Wide speakers by using the speakers that are currently the side surrounds as the DSX Wides (and relocating the speakers as well, I assume), and using the speakers that are currently the rear surrounds as the new side surrounds?

If that is what you mean, then there is nothing wrong with doing that. DSX Wide speakers are more useful than rear surrounds, IMO.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Receivers, Amps, and Processors
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › "Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779)