Quick question guys, I am planning an setting up opposing front firing sub woofers this evening.............One in the front of the room, and one in the rear.
--Before running audyssey, do I need to reverse the phase of the sub in the rear?
Not really wrt to amps. It's easy to taste the difference between one wine and another. Nobody can hear the difference between two modern amps working within spec.
Agree though with speakers - easy to hear differences between speakers and yes, it is a matter of taste, assuming the speakers under comparison do what you want them to do. What I want in the HT room is exceptional transparency to the source, outstanding dynamics, precision imaging and the ability to play at Reference level without audible complaint, distortion or compression. The S150s give me all that. There are other speakers that won't necessarily give me all those things but which are still exceptionally good speakers - indeed I even have a pair in my music-only system where my requirements are different. In fact, from what I have read, the B&W Diamonds would suit me very well in my music system. My very first ever speakers were B&W - a pair of reflex designs called DM4. I have owned several pairs of B&Ws since then and have always enjoyed their sound for music.
Hi - welcome to the forum!
Small changes in where you positioned the mic can sometimes make the differences you describe. You haven't changed anything about the room - moved furniture, moved the speakers, added something, taken something out, etc? That can also make a difference.
It may be that the original mic you used was faulty and the new one is not, of course. I would be very suspicious of the crossovers you were using before. Your speakers can only reproduce to 50Hz according to their specs, yet you were driving them down to 40Hz with the previous crossovers. Manufacturer speaker specifications are usually unreliable or optimistic, so I would question whether the speakers can actually go down to 50Hz anyway. You are actually making massive demands of the speakers to try to force them to deliver these very low (for them) frequencies and by using a higher crossover you will relieve them of the strain and thereby improve the mid and upper frequencies which they can deliver more easily. You are also forcing your amplifiers to work very hard in trying to get the speakers to deliver 40Hz at sufficiently loud SPLs. A higher crossover makes sense for all sorts of reasons.
How does it sound with the crossovers set at 120Hz? Your sub spec indicates that it can handle up to 200Hz so it is easily capable of dealing with the 120Hz. Are you able to tell where the sub is in the room when listening (can you 'localise' the sub?)? If it sounds good and you cannot localise the sub, then it is probably OK to leave it where it is. If you did want to lower the crossover, the only problem is that there will be no Audyssey correction at all between the crossover set (120Hz) and whatever you lower it to (because Audyssey only creates filters down to the -3dB point detected in the frequency range). If you lowered the crossover to 40Hz or 60Hz then you would have a significant part of the FR uncorrected. You might find you could lower the crossover to 90/100Hz without too much damage to the sound but the usual advice is to only raise the crossover and not lower it.
It is normal for the subwoofer distance to be greater than its physical distance. Nothing to worry about.
You are right that your sub is not being EQd with Audyssey 2EQ. The problem is that if you set the crossovers low, yes you will get more of the frequency range EQd, but you will also place more demands on your main speakers instead of letting the sub handle the low frequencies as it is designed to do. It's a difficult call. If I were you I would consider buying an AntiMode and putting it in your system - it is not very expensive and will make a big difference by EQ-ing your sub pretty well. The AntiMode is fully automatic in use and works roughly in a similar way to Audyssey, but just for the bass. It is the bass where EQ is most needed. Information on the AntiMode is here:
I apologise to any sensitive souls reading this for mentioning the AntiMode in the Audyssey thread! But Otakar has 2EQ in his AVR and to step up to an XT32 AVR (or even an XT AVR, which doesn’t make a fantastic job of EQing the bass anyway) will cost him more than an AntiMode and the latter will likely do a very good job for him.
These answers from the FAQ might help you with more information on your questions above:
are you talking about a new Pioneer Elite ?
as far as i know, Pioneer has not made tv's for a couple of years...
just curious here.
Check out this FAQ answer:
Hi - sorry for the delay in replying to you - I have been busy installing bass traps in my HT room. Not sure what the effect of the additional bean bags would be but there will more than likely be some effect - advice is always to run Audyssey again if you move the furniture or change the room around.
Music doesn't usually have any significant bass below about 40Hz so using the system in 2.0 mode is fine for most music. If you feel the bass is lacking, then engage 2.1 as you say. Music doesn't really have any mixing standards - there is no 'reference' like there is for cinema mixes - so it's usually a question of trial and error.
I dislike Dynamic Volume and the way it compresses the sound. DV is really for people who have neighbours or sleeping children etc and who can't turn up the volume on their systems for fear of disturbing them. Check out the FAQ answer for a better explanation of how it works. You will probably want to use Dynamic EQ though (certainly for movies). Again, the FAQ is your friend:
I'm not sure why it seems there is some upper bass missing if you send the bass to the sub from 120Hz down. If you cross over at 120Hz then all the bass below 120Hz is being handled by your sub, which is specced to 200Hz so should easily handle 120Hz.
Not quite. Audyssey only creates equalisation filters down to the F3 point it detects (F3 = the point at which the SPL is down by -3dB). So if the F3 is 120Hz, Audyssey will not create any EQ filters below 120Hz for your main speakers. If you lower the crossover manually to 80Hz (say) then there is an uncorrected 'hole' in your frequency response between 80 Hz and 120 Hz. In other words you would have an uncorrected frequency response between 80Hz and 120Hz on the manin speakers. This might sound better to you however than running a crossover of 120Hz, although I cannot see why this would be the case. You seem to have a capable sub that can handle the frequencies below 120Hz - but if you are not happy with the sound when it is set like that, experiment with the crossover settings and see what happens.
No - but it will cost you a lot of money to get an XT-32 equipped unit and I was trying to suggest something that would work well with the equipment you have got. The AM 8033 is not all that expensive and does a good job by all accounts. The cheapest way to get XT32 is to buy the Onkyo 818 - it sells for about €1200.
It looks like a nice room. Some photos would be helpful - you can use mobile phone photos - they don't need to be high quality. Looking at the plan, I can see a big coffee table between you and the centre speaker - this is a bad place for a large reflecting surface as it can muddy dialogue in movies and make it difficult to hear properly. If the table cannot be moved cover it with books etc to make it less reflective. Measure with Audyssey with the books in place and leave them there for listening. Or put a thick duvet or something on the table and measure with that in place - then put the duvet on the table when you are listening and remove it when you aren't. Your centre speaker needs to be angled up to your ears and brought forward on the unit it is standing on so that the leading edge is a couple of cm overhanging the unit. I would probably move the surround speakers forward so they are more in line with the couch where you sit, but it isn't critical, although as things stand, there may be a 'hole' between the front and surrounds - when you hear a front-to-rear pan, does the sound move seamlessly from front to surround speakers or does it 'jump' from front to back? If the latter, then you need to consider moving them forwards. I can't see where your sub is positioned - that may be the most important thing of all. If you can take some photos and upload them here, it may be easier to give better suggestions.
Yes, which is why I said "doesn’t usually" of course - I doubt that very many people really listen to church organ music much Certainly the poster to whom I was replying doesn't...
After a fashion, yes. But unless it's in a corner, it won't be the best possible bass trap your room could ever have... the more important question really is whether your subwoofer would make a useful fire
I doubt if anyone would argue that ultra low bass doesn't matter. Certainly not me - I'm installing two Seaton Submersive F2s next week
LOL! Sorry, Jerry. It's been a bit quiet in here for a few days (unlike in my HT next week, once my two Seaton Submersive F2s have been installed) and I couldn't resist mentioning that I'll soon be the proud owner of two Seaton Submersive F2s .....
Now my room is treated, I'm expecting XT32/Pro will give me an even better result - the HT actually sounds pretty good ATM with Audyssey turned OFF (for the first time ever, just as an experiment and because, although I obviously need to rerun Audyssey after installing the traps, I don't want to do it now and then do it all over again when my two Seaton Submersive F2s are installed next week.
BTW, Jerry, what was it you wanted me to give a rest to?