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"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 1926

post #57751 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleeding Edge View Post

Many thanks to kbarnes701 and what must've been an army of audio ninjas who put together the Audyssey FAQ.

Agreed, these guys are like Superheroes but most likely a few years older and with less hair smile.gif.

All kidding aside the Audyssey FAQ and 101 are amazingly thorough and extremely helpful, and the work involved in creating and maintaining both is much appreciated.
post #57752 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by fjames View Post

For me an easy way to deal with RLO is simply to monitor over time the loudest volume I use for a given source, and set it there (assuming Relative volume of course.) You still get to play with 'preference" as you have to decide to go to nearest higher or lower RLO.

I relate to it almost solely as a bass effect though, so if a person was sensitive to surround levels, this might not work? But for bass it works fine pour moi.

I think the biggest impact of DEQ is on the bass. Yes, we know it affects the upper frequencies too  - and it is easy to see this in real time with measuring gear simply by switching DEQ in and out, and/or changing the RLO and watching what happens to the curve. But the real impact, it seems to me, is in the bass as you say. I am sensitive to surround levels and I would hesitate to lose DEQ for that reason, but recently I have been using an RLO of 5 (with a usual listening level of about -7.5dB) but this is because I am using Pgm2 on my Submersives, which boosts the low end by 3dB or so, and with DEQ also on, it overcooks the bass a little. Using the RLO of 5 means I am still getting some benefit from DEQ at my usual MV setting, but because I am approaching my new 'reference' level, the effect is tamed.

post #57753 of 70896
Hi I have the Marants SR6007, which has Audyssey technology but I have no idea how to connect 2 more speakers (60 degree fronts) Are they virtual speakers? Also do you need to buy the calibration mic seperatly or should have my reciever come with it? Thanks
post #57754 of 70896
the receiver should have come with the microphone. It's standard equipment for any Audyssey enabled receiver.

I'm not sure what you mean by "virtual speakers" but it sounds like you are referring to the DSX Wide speakers? Any additional 2 speakers beyond the "core" 5.1 channels would be hooked up the "Assignable" Surround Back posts on the back of your receiver. You then change the "Amp Assign" setting to redesignate these amp channels to whatever purpose you want (surround back, heights, wides, etc).

post #57755 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by holt7153 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleeding Edge View Post

Many thanks to kbarnes701 and what must've been an army of audio ninjas who put together the Audyssey FAQ.

Agreed, these guys are like Superheroes but most likely a few years older and with less hair smile.gif.

All kidding aside the Audyssey FAQ and 101 are amazingly thorough and extremely helpful, and the work involved in creating and maintaining both is much appreciated.

 

Wow! Two accolades in one day. I can get used to this! :)  Thanks..

post #57756 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Wow! Two accolades in one day. I can get used to this! smile.gif  Thanks..

Don't forget someone yesterday thought you were Kal. Your'e on a roll Keith, nice job smile.gif.

Bill
post #57757 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Don't forget someone yesterday thought you were Kal. Your'e on a roll Keith, nice job smile.gif.
Bill

Wait-if he's not the Stereophile guy then I take back my comments eek.gifsmile.gif.
post #57758 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Wow! Two accolades in one day. I can get used to this! smile.gif  Thanks..

Don't forget someone yesterday thought you were Kal. Your'e on a roll Keith, nice job smile.gif.

Bill

 

LOL!  Yes good point, Bill. I should quit while I'm ahead :)

post #57759 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by holt7153 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Don't forget someone yesterday thought you were Kal. Your'e on a roll Keith, nice job smile.gif.
Bill

Wait-if he's not the Stereophile guy then I take back my comments eek.gifsmile.gif.

LOL! Darn!  Just as I was getting used to it too..... ;)

post #57760 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

the receiver should have come with the microphone. It's standard equipment for any Audyssey enabled receiver.
I'm not sure what you mean by "virtual speakers" but it sounds like you are referring to the DSX Wide speakers? Any additional 2 speakers beyond the "core" 5.1 channels would be hooked up the "Assignable" Surround Back posts on the back of your receiver. You then change the "Amp Assign" setting to redesignate these amp channels to whatever purpose you want (surround back, heights, wides, etc).

Thanks Batpig for the response. OK I will have to call Marantz and find out if they can send me a calibration mic

Virtual speakers meaning it uses the present left and right for the DSX wide speakers.

But I am assuming 9.1 would connect 2 more speakers "Lw and Rw" in the 60 degree front position. I am using all of the 7.1 speaker connections on my SR6006 (correction from previous post its not the SR6007) but it does support Audyssey. The only other connections for speakers are for the B selection of the front speakers.


Here are the SR6006 specs:
MULTI CHANNEL/SURROUND
Number of Channels 7ch Amp. 7.1ch Processing

Audyssey Dynamic Volume, Dynamic EQ, DSX

DTS HD Master & High Res. Audio/ES/96/24/Discrete & Matrix6.1/ Neo:6/Express

Dolby True HD/Digital Plus&EX/ Pro Logic IIz, IIx, II/Virtual Speaker/ Headphone

DSD(SA-CD)/NEURAL - / yes

SRS -


Here is a picture of my only surround outputs:
Im using them for side speakers and back speakers
post #57761 of 70896
I suppose I'm refering to this picture with 11.1 speaker setup

Left picture is my current setup
post #57762 of 70896
I want to re run Audyssey because I moved the sub a few inches. I have read the FAQ many times and I do know about mic placement like I always place the tripod on top of the couch at first listening position or sweet spot however, I have read that if the couch is soft it is better to place the mic on the floor instead of the couch or does it even matter? Normally I place it on the couch for positions 1,2,3 about a foot or two apart and continue with 4,5,6 on the floor. I only have Multeq.
Edited by asere - 11/30/12 at 6:28am
post #57763 of 70896
I posted this on the Integra 80.2 thread with no response so thought I would try here:

Does anyone know if the Audyssey filters are applied to the HDMI digital output on the 80.2 in addition to being applied to the analog outputs?
post #57764 of 70896
My room is 7000 cubic feet. I have a Premier Acoustic PA-150 sub. The sub is about 6" off the front wall to the right of my screen (Not in a corner). I just got a receiver with Audyssey MultEQ XT, up to that point I had been watching blu rays with the sub non EQ'd at about 5.5 gain. This sub's gain is 0-10. When I ran Audyssey the level of my sub was -12db, I adjusted the gain many many times but going from just 5.5 to say 5 gain the bass response drop was huge, I guess I just got accustomed to loud bass. Anyways, I really cranked the gain down since I kept getting -12db, now with the gain at about 2, 2.5ish after running Audyssey I get -2.5db for sub level. I'm now within the recommendations, however, when I play transformers at reference level there is nearly no bass coming from the sub.

Do most boost the sub level within the AVR?
Is the location of my sub giving bad readings for Audyssey?
Should I up the gain on my sub a smidge, to get a -8db or something like that so that I have more headroom to increase the sub level, or is it ok for me to adjust that -2.5 to say something like +8db in the AVR?

All other settings and sounds coming from the speakers at reference are superb!

Or should I leave the settings where they are and just listen to my system for a couple of weeks and get used to the sound because it is clear to me I've definitely gotten accustomed to too much bass.

Side notes (Other settings):
LFE x/o: 120
L/R x/o: 80
center x/o: 80
surrounds x/o: 90

All speakers Small
All speakers distances accurate
All speakers levels withing -12+12 range
Sub LFE only (Not LFE+Main)

Loving all sound, feel like I'm missing bass.
post #57765 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by asere View Post

I want to re run Audyssey because I moved the sub a few inches. I have read the FAQ many times and I do know about mic placement like I always place the tripod on top of the couch at first listening position or sweet spot however, I have read that if the couch is soft it is better to place the mic on the floor instead of the couch or does it even matter? Normally I place it on the couch for positions 1,2,3 about a foot or two apart and continue with 4,5,6 on the floor. I only have Multeq.

 

The problem with placing the mic on the couch is that it might pick up vibrations through the couch as the couch is hardly a stable place to stand the mic. If so, this can throw off your calibration. The mic must, as you know, be placed at ear/tweeter height. Before I bought a boom mic stand (highly recommended for only about $20 from Amazon) I used to use my photographic tripod and I had to rest two legs on the chair and one on the floor. This seemed to work but was awkward to use and prolonged the measurement/calibration time. If you are happy with the result Audyssey is giving you, then you are probably OK using your current method - but the recommendation really has to be to spring the 20 bucks for a stand.

post #57766 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

I posted this on the Integra 80.2 thread with no response so thought I would try here:

Does anyone know if the Audyssey filters are applied to the HDMI digital output on the 80.2 in addition to being applied to the analog outputs?

 

What is the HDMI digital output?  The only HDMI outputs on my unit are those to the screen.

post #57767 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

I posted this on the Integra 80.2 thread with no response so thought I would try here:

Does anyone know if the Audyssey filters are applied to the HDMI digital output on the 80.2 in addition to being applied to the analog outputs?

It isn't clear if you're asking about the DTR 80.2 receiver or the DHC 80.2 pre/pro.
At any rate, Audyssey is applied only to analog audio outputs which will be driving speakers: either preamp outputs or amp outputs. It is not applied to any of the digital outputs, whether HDMI or S/PDIF.
post #57768 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by clanmjc View Post

My room is 7000 cubic feet. I have a Premier Acoustic PA-150 sub. The sub is about 6" off the front wall to the right of my screen (Not in a corner). I just got a receiver with Audyssey MultEQ XT, up to that point I had been watching blu rays with the sub non EQ'd at about 5.5 gain. This sub's gain is 0-10. When I ran Audyssey the level of my sub was -12db, I adjusted the gain many many times but going from just 5.5 to say 5 gain the bass response drop was huge, I guess I just got accustomed to loud bass. Anyways, I really cranked the gain down since I kept getting -12db, now with the gain at about 2, 2.5ish after running Audyssey I get -2.5db for sub level. I'm now within the recommendations, however, when I play transformers at reference level there is nearly no bass coming from the sub.

 

That is a heck of a space to fill with bass. Your sub is a 15 inch unit powered by a 1000 watt amp but it's still a huge space to fill and I'd say that the sub was underpowered. Even a couple of Submersives would not be  comfortable in such a huge space IMO, and many are using 4 Submersives in much smaller rooms (Submersives have two 15 inch drivers each and 2400 watt amps).

 

HST, and staying with the Audyssey issues, yes, if you are hitting -12 then you are hitting the stops and have no way of knowing if Audyssey would have trimmed down even more if it had been able to. So you have done the right thing by turning down the sub gain to get a trim of -2.5. That trim level is 'text book' so you are right on the money there. WRT to the perceived lack of bass, check out this FAQ answer:

 

f)5.   Since I ran Audyssey everything sounds great - but where has my bass gone?

 

Do most boost the sub level within the AVR?

 

Some do. Many people prefer to run their bass 'hot' rather than at reference level.

 

f)4.   If I want to run my subs a little 'hot' where should I make the changes?

Quote:
Is the location of my sub giving bad readings for Audyssey?
Should I up the gain on my sub a smidge, to get a -8db or something like that so that I have more headroom to increase the sub level, or is it ok for me to adjust that -2.5 to say something like +8db in the AVR?
 

 

Audyssey doesn’t care where the sub is located - it just analyses the response from the mic and creates filters, sets levels and delays accordingly. It is not a good idea to run a sub trim of +8dB as this may clip the input on the sub amp and potentially cause damage. If you want to increase the trim by that much I would suggest you raise the sub gain so that you get a lower trim to start with, as you suggest. -8dB would be a good starting point as it would give you a potential increase in trim of at least 8dB without problems.

 

Quote:
All other settings and sounds coming from the speakers at reference are superb!

Or should I leave the settings where they are and just listen to my system for a couple of weeks and get used to the sound because it is clear to me I've definitely gotten accustomed to too much bass.

Side notes (Other settings):
LFE x/o: 120
L/R x/o: 80
center x/o: 80
surrounds x/o: 90

All speakers Small
All speakers distances accurate
All speakers levels withing -12+12 range
Sub LFE only (Not LFE+Main)

Loving all sound, feel like I'm missing bass.
 

Settings look great. I would try to listen at reference for a while to see if you do get used to it. If you have had very hot bass for some time you will miss it for sure. I have two Seaton Submersive F2s in a room of only approx 1000 cu ft and I still run the subs 2dB hot, so there is nothing intrinsically odd about running the bass hot, but do give yourself a little time to get accustomed to flat bass. From your report it sounds to me as if Audyssey is doing everything it should be doing. The only other thing I would suggest is that you consider your total amount of woofage in such a large space - 7000 cu ft is going to be a big ask for any sub.

 

EDIT: I just read the spec for your sub and it is rated at 1000 watt 'peak' so the true wattage is going to be substantially less than that.


Edited by kbarnes701 - 11/30/12 at 8:49am
post #57769 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

That is a heck of a space to fill with bass.
The cubic volume doesn't matter as long as he sits in the vicinity. Like 10' away.
post #57770 of 70896
^^ Keith:
1000 sq ft for your duo F2s? What are your room dimensions?
post #57771 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

That is a heck of a space to fill with bass.
The cubic volume doesn't matter as long as he sits in the vicinity. Like 10' away.

 

Good point, Roger. But without in any way wanting to disrespect the OP's sub, a 1000 watt 'peak' sub that retails for $425 isn't going to be a powerhouse of a sub is it? I wouldn't even consider it enough for my very small (1000 cu ft) HT.

 

Maybe the OP can confirm the listening distance for us.

post #57772 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

^^ Keith:
1000 sq ft for your duo F2s? What are your room dimensions?

Cubic not square, Stuart ;)

post #57773 of 70896
Firstly thanks for the great reply!
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

That is a heck of a space to fill with bass. Your sub is a 15 inch unit powered by a 1000 watt amp but it's still a huge space to fill and I'd say that the sub was underpowered. Even a couple of Submersives would not be  comfortable in such a huge space IMO, and many are using 4 Submersives in much smaller rooms (Submersives have two 15 inch drivers each and 2400 watt amps).

That is impression I've always had, that's why it was odd to me that Audyssey didn't like my sub gain anywhere near my previous setting was (5.5ish). I figured the volume of room might even require me to bump up the gain to get an Audyssey level under +12db, boy was I wrong. Instead it's between 2 and 2.5 gain which is dare I say nada. My sub is about 7.5' from my main listening position. The funny thing is my main listening position is right in front of the center of my room, which is kind of a null area... again I figured this would play into needing to boost the sub gain. Contrary to my belief the opposite happened.

I really do think I've been running my bass way too hot, so I need to let my ears adjust a little bit, what I will do though is increase the gain so I'm in the -10 to -8db range and boost my levels from there. I don't have a boom stand but I do use a tripod. However I actually have the tripod completely on top of the leather sofa, which has soft cushions. I know a boom stand would be better, however in the meantime would it be better for me to have 2 feet on the floor and 1 foot on the couch when running the measurements? Will couch vibrations effect sub woofer level within audyssey?

One other question, since I've already ran Audyssey and Dynamic EQ is turned on, during setup will this have any adverse effects to my levels or will Dynamic EQ be auto disengaged during the setup process?

Thanks so much.
post #57774 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

But without in any way wanting to disrespect the OP's sub

None taken, in fact I totally agree, which boggles my mind as too why I need to turn down the gain. I guess what I don't understand is, lets say I replace my current sub with an epik/submersive/SVS/HSU high end big boy, would Audyssey be requiring me to lower the gain on them even more than my current sub all things being equal? Is audyssey setting the level trim based on output or something else (or in conjunction with)
Quote:
Maybe the OP can confirm the listening distance for us.

7.5'

My subs gain nob goes from 0 to 10 - Audyssey wants it at 2.3ish for a good trim, it seems like I'm not even using my sub. It's as if my sub is way too powerful for my room at least from my listening position, of course based on everything I've read and researched the sub is under powered for my size room but what does that mean.
post #57775 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

The problem with placing the mic on the couch is that it might pick up vibrations through the couch as the couch is hardly a stable place to stand the mic. If so, this can throw off your calibration. The mic must, as you know, be placed at ear/tweeter height. Before I bought a boom mic stand (highly recommended for only about $20 from Amazon) I used to use my photographic tripod and I had to rest two legs on the chair and one on the floor. This seemed to work but was awkward to use and prolonged the measurement/calibration time. If you are happy with the result Audyssey is giving you, then you are probably OK using your current method - but the recommendation really has to be to spring the 20 bucks for a stand.

Are you suggesting use a boom mic stand instead on the couch or on the floor?
post #57776 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by clanmjc View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

But without in any way wanting to disrespect the OP's sub

None taken, in fact I totally agree, which boggles my mind as too why I need to turn down the gain. I guess what I don't understand is, lets say I replace my current sub with an epik/submersive/SVS/HSU high end big boy, would Audyssey be requiring me to lower the gain on them even more than my current sub all things being equal? Is audyssey setting the level trim based on output or something else (or in conjunction with)
Quote:
Maybe the OP can confirm the listening distance for us.

7.5'

My subs gain nob goes from 0 to 10 - Audyssey wants it at 2.3ish for a good trim, it seems like I'm not even using my sub. It's as if my sub is way too powerful for my room at least from my listening position, of course based on everything I've read and researched the sub is under powered for my size room but what does that mean.
After it's been calibrated, Audyssey provides the correct output voltage to drive the subwoofer to the level intended by the person who mixed a movie's audio. In those cases where the subwoofer actually is under-powered, it'll make "clanking" noises when the driver bottoms-out in its frame. That doesn't happen often. In many cases people prefer inaccurate bass that's loud enough to make their furnishings rattle, so the sub manufacturers have taken that into account. As a result, most calibrated subs wind up having their volume control knobs down around the 10-25% mark.
post #57777 of 70896
Once I run Audyssey if the avr gives me results of +3 does this mean the sub is running hot? I guess what I am asking is if anything below 0 is fine and above 0 is hot.
post #57778 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by asere View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

The problem with placing the mic on the couch is that it might pick up vibrations through the couch as the couch is hardly a stable place to stand the mic. If so, this can throw off your calibration. The mic must, as you know, be placed at ear/tweeter height. Before I bought a boom mic stand (highly recommended for only about $20 from Amazon) I used to use my photographic tripod and I had to rest two legs on the chair and one on the floor. This seemed to work but was awkward to use and prolonged the measurement/calibration time. If you are happy with the result Audyssey is giving you, then you are probably OK using your current method - but the recommendation really has to be to spring the 20 bucks for a stand.

Are you suggesting use a boom mic stand instead on the couch or on the floor?
That would produce the most accurate calibration, since the boom can be used to place the mic at the appropriate head position while the stand is sitting on a solid, non-vibrating floor. If the microphone vibrates because its stand is more-or-less sitting on the sofa itself, it'll compromise the calibration.
post #57779 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by asere View Post

Once I run Audyssey if the avr gives me results of +3 does this mean the sub is running hot? I guess what I am asking is if anything below 0 is fine and above 0 is hot.
It means that Audyssey had to turn up its sound level output (above 0dB) because the sub was relatively quiet. 0nly 3dB should be OK, though. For some subs, a higher level signal triggers the auto-on circuit more easily.
post #57780 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

That would produce the most accurate calibration, since the boom can be used to place the mic at the appropriate head position while the stand is sitting on a solid, non-vibrating floor. If the microphone vibrates because its stand is more-or-less sitting on the sofa itself, it'll compromise the calibration.


Thanks but how about placing the tripod on the floor in front of the main listening position?
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