or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › "Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 1939

post #58141 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

 

LOL. Yes, digital and analogue. (This is getting tooooooooo bad.....) :)

Understood.  My situation is similar.

post #58142 of 70906
Originally Posted by SoundofMind:

"To my ear, Flat can sound a bit too boosted in the high end to me, at times lending a slightly harsh quality. I have just hit the sixty mark fellows and unfortunately I have some documented hearing loss in high freqs (no doubt from rockin my Strat on my Fender Twin in my misspent youth). Thus I use Flat for certain CDs that benefit, to my ear on that day at that volume, from the high-end boost to bring out detail otherwise lost to me."
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

Just to be clear about what's going on electronically, the Audyssey Reference curve rolls off the highs, but the Flat curve doesn't--and it doesn't boost them, either.
Good point. That's the typical everyday simplistic way I think of it :
"Hmmm...this music should be livelier, it sounds a bit dull, not a lot of detail-mebbe I'll "boost the highs" with Flat."
Should be "...mebbe I'll "restore the highs" the Std curve cuts by using Flat". smile.gif
post #58143 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

 

LOL. Yes, digital and analogue. (This is getting tooooooooo bad.....) :)

Understood.  My situation is similar.

wink.gif

post #58144 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

I wouldn't get an XXX8 series Onkyo, many have trouble with their HDMI boards failing.

Thats what I hear.
post #58145 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

The 818 does not have sub EQ for multiple subs where the 4311 does.

I don't see myself upgrading to 2 subs in the near future and if I do by then I would most likely upgrade receiver too because it would be outdated.
post #58146 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post

Sometimes more is less and less is more smile.gif

The tx nr818 has THX. Call me crazy maybe it is because of the label and THX mode but I would like THX on board maybe because I have never owned a THX receiver.
post #58147 of 70906
According to the Denon website the 4311 is discontinued. I notice with Denon you need to shell out a lot of cash in order to get XT32 compared to Onkyo brand.
post #58148 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

That gets a little too claustrophobic when you live in a two BDR condo with a wife, a 15-year-old, and two small white dogs..

I would think living anywhere with a 15-yr old except in a mansion would be claustrophobic ... or even terminal.
post #58149 of 70906
I don't know if we can consider Onkyo's 818 part of the XX08 lineup as it only debuted with the XX10 models. The 4311 IS discontinued, but still available at numerous places online for anywhere between $1300-$1600. The 818 is available for $1000 or less. The advantages of the 4311:
1) been out for a while and no reports of critical failures (there were some blue rain reports but those seem to have disappearrd)
2) ability to EQ 2 subs separately and have individual gain and delay settings
3) ability to upgrade to Audyssey XT32 Pro

818 is the cheapest way to get XT32 at the moment, but as Theresa mentioned, it may or may not develop an HDMI board problem down the road.

BTW, hardware, firmware, 'inputs' and aged wood LOL!!! What's going on?


Max
post #58150 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by asere View Post

According to the Denon website the 4311 is discontinued. I notice with Denon you need to shell out a lot of cash in order to get XT32 compared to Onkyo brand.

No - the 4311 is XT32 equipped out of the box. Are you perhaps thinking of Audyssey Pro, which does require additional investment?

post #58151 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

BTW, hardware, firmware, 'inputs' and aged wood LOL!!! What's going on?
 

 

Pre-Christmas euphoria?  :)

 

(It's Jeff who's got aged wood isn’t it? wink.gif)

post #58152 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by asere View Post

According to the Denon website the 4311 is discontinued. I notice with Denon you need to shell out a lot of cash in order to get XT32 compared to Onkyo brand.
No - the 4311 is XT32 equipped out of the box. Are you perhaps thinking of Audyssey Pro, which does require additional investment?
I'm guessing that he just meant that in the current respective lineups, the cheapest XT32 model is quite a bit more in the Denon lineup than the cheapest XT32 equipped offering in Onkyo's current lineup.


Max
post #58153 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by asere View Post

According to the Denon website the 4311 is discontinued. I notice with Denon you need to shell out a lot of cash in order to get XT32 compared to Onkyo brand.
No - the 4311 is XT32 equipped out of the box. Are you perhaps thinking of Audyssey Pro, which does require additional investment?
I'm guessing that he just meant that in the current respective lineups, the cheapest XT32 model is quite a bit more in the Denon lineup than the cheapest XT32 equipped offering in Onkyo's current lineup.


Max

 

Ah yes, gotcha!  4311, if still available, is a real bargain. In the UK they don't seem to understand it's now a superseded model and they’re still selling them for close on the original price. 

 

I like the 818 and at well under a grand it's a good buy, but the 4311 offers so much more - a full implementation of XT32 for one thing. Ability to add extra amps for 11.2 for another. And of course it's also Pro-ready. Er, why am I telling you this?  You just posted the same info - LOL. My fingers have taken over where my brain left off...;)

post #58154 of 70906
accessories4less is selling refurbed units with 1 yr warranty for eleven-fifty.
post #58155 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

Audyssey will EQ the main speakers down to their -3dB point as measured in the room. Typically receivers set the crossover point at the first available frequency above the -3dB point for each pair of speakers. Audyssey will EQ the sub down to its -3 dB point and up to its -3dB point (ie where it starts to roll off at the "high" end). When you move the crossovers up, normally you are still well within the sub's passband, so Audyssey is EQing the "added" higher frequencies already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

This assumption is where you go wrong -- Audyssey creates an EQ for each speaker (including the sub) that covers its ENTIRE operating range. So the sub is not just EQ'd up to 50Hz in your example, it will probably be EQ'd up to 200Hz or so. Each filter is independent; the bass limits of your other speakers do not impact where the EQ stops for the sub channel. This is why you can raise the xover -- as Jerry notes above, even if you'd raise it from 50Hz to say 100Hz you are well within the sub's passband, which is fully EQ'd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

What JHaz said. The 'wrong' bit in your post, if I may call it that, is your assumption about how the sub gets EQd. You will be fine to raise the XOs and it won't adversely affect the sub's EQ.

To your last point, Audyssey ignores all settings in the AVR when it runs, so you cannot override it in any way.

Thanks all! Good to know that it treat each speaker individually. I will be playing with that for the next week for sure!
post #58156 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

The internal AVR test tones do not have Audyssey filters applied to them. Be aware of this when independently checking the SPLs with a meter - the Audyssey filtration may have boosted some frequencies enough to make a difference to the SPL detected if you are using the level test tones to verify Audyssey's settings. If you use an independent mic and independent tones (eg with REW or OmniMic), then of course you can check the levels with or without Audyssey's contribution. It's mentioned briefly in the last paragraph of this FAQ answer:

e)3.   Why does my My Sound Pressure Level meter give a different result to Audyssey?

+1.

Meantime, please allow me to add a bit more on the background. As regards the internal test tones it's not that MultEQ is turned off. It's because the AVR has the test noise in a block that comes after MultEQ and so it doesn't see the filters. Audyssey has asked for this many times, but it's apparently too complicated for the AVR makers to make the change in the architecture. The internal test tones don't see the filters so you will get the same answer with Audyssey on and off.

There are external/independent CDs/DVDs for testing. If you are absolutely certain that the external CD/DVD was properly recorded (there are some that are not--particularly DVDs that have messed up the dialnorm setting), then that's the way to go. Because of this uncertainty, however, Audyssey always recommends to go with the internal test tone if you want to check.
post #58157 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

The advantages of the 4311:

ability to EQ 2 subs separately and have individual gain and delay settings
Will do individual gain and delay, but EQs both subs together (not separately).
post #58158 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

The advantages of the 4311:

ability to EQ 2 subs separately and have individual gain and delay settings
Will do individual gain and delay, but EQs both subs together (not separately).
Does it actually ping both subs simultaneously? I thought it pinged the subs individually?


Max
post #58159 of 70906
on the first measurement position, it pings each sub individually first to set distance + level, and then pings them together to calculate EQ filters. For every position after the first, it will ping them together (since after the 1st position it's only adding data to the EQ filter calculation).
post #58160 of 70906
I might consider the 4311. It mentions on the site something about disengaging the internal amp. Can someone explain what that's all about?
post #58161 of 70906
I had asked about the test tones due to the differences in how the tones sounded on identical speakers but in different positions -- and the fact that the filters are not applied explains why they sounded so different. I will use a DVD that had test tones to see what is going on.

Thanks for the responses!
post #58162 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

I had asked about the test tones due to the differences in how the tones sounded on identical speakers but in different positions -- and the fact that the filters are not applied explains why they sounded so different. I will use a DVD that had test tones to see what is going on.

Thanks for the responses!

 

The tones will sound different even on identical speakers because of their differing position in the room and your own different position in relation to them (eg rear surrounds are behind your head). This is normal and to be expected. Some of the speakers may be closer to a wall or corner than others, some will be at different heights to others and this will alter their tonal characteristics. You won't learn anything constructive in this regard by using an external set of tones off a disc as opposed to the internal tones of your AVR. Where an external set of tones can be useful is if you want to measure the response independently (eg with REW or OmniMic) taking account of the Audyssey processing. Bottom line - if the test tones sound different when played through the various speakers, don't worry about it. (Incidentally, the tones will sound different even from one speaker if you turn your head left and right while playing a test tone).

post #58163 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by asere View Post

I might consider the 4311. It mentions on the site something about disengaging the internal amp. Can someone explain what that's all about?

 

If you are using the 4311 as a prepro with external amplification, the 4311 allows you to physically disconnect the internal amps (usually they just sit there doing nothing even though they are 'on'). 'Audiophiles' might believe there is a difference in the final SQ if the internal amps can be switched off - probably, the theory goes, because of reduced noise interference or something. In reality it seems to me highly unlikely anyone would be able to hear a difference, but it can do no harm so it's not a bad thing per se.

 

Incidentally, the 4311, IMO, makes a terrific 'prepro' regardless of what we might think of that feature - it has XT32, properly configurable dual sub outlets, a great overall spec and - the icing on the cake - it is Audyssey Pro ready too. All for just over a grand.

post #58164 of 70906
For Audyssey pre pro someone has to go over your house and pay for it right?
post #58165 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by asere View Post

For Audyssey pre pro someone has to go over your house and pay for it right?

 

That is one way - via a professional installer - but you can buy the Audyssey Pro kit and do it yourself if you wish. Many of us in this thread have done just that.

 

For more info, check out the Audyssey Pro Installer Kit FAQ, linked below in my sig.

post #58166 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

If you are using the 4311 as a prepro with external amplification, the 4311 allows you to physically disconnect the internal amps (usually they just sit there doing nothing even though they are 'on'). 'Audiophiles' might believe there is a difference in the final SQ if the internal amps can be switched off - probably, the theory goes, because of reduced noise interference or something. In reality it seems to me highly unlikely anyone would be able to hear a difference, but it can do no harm so it's not a bad thing per se.

Incidentally, the 4311, IMO, makes a terrific 'prepro' regardless of what we might think of that feature - it has XT32, properly configurable dual sub outlets, a great overall spec and - the icing on the cake - it is Audyssey Pro ready too. All for just over a grand.

And it has that killer look on the top of the front panel with that little "curvyness" (is there such a word?) tha was given up by Denon for the 2012 and 2013 models showing a kinda flat face from a side view. smile.gif

P.s. Sorry if the above sentence seems a bit clumsy. You try to describe what I tried to describe in any foreign language that is not English. cool.gifcool.gifcool.gifcool.gifcool.gif
post #58167 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

Does it actually ping both subs simultaneously?
For equalization, it sends the same signal to both subs and measures their interaction, just as you will be listening to them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

I thought it pinged the subs individually?
It does, but only for calibration (levels & distances).
post #58168 of 70906
I want to invest maybe on the 4311 but I'm only interested on the xt32 simply because I don't have room for more than a 5.1 set up. I won't be using more than one sub. On the other hand I would like to maybe consider the 818 because of the xt32 and thx. Other than that the 818 has no other use for my set up. What to do??
post #58169 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by asere View Post

I'm only interested on the xt32 simply because I don't have room for more than a 5.1 set up. I won't be using more than one sub.
If you're not going to take advantage of the 9 amplifier channels built into the Denon 4311 nor its ability to calibrate 2 subwoofers independently, then I would get the Onkyo 818 (still gives you the advantage of XT32). I've seen used ones go for around $800 or so.
post #58170 of 70906
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

If you are using the 4311 as a prepro with external amplification, the 4311 allows you to physically disconnect the internal amps (usually they just sit there doing nothing even though they are 'on'). 'Audiophiles' might believe there is a difference in the final SQ if the internal amps can be switched off - probably, the theory goes, because of reduced noise interference or something. In reality it seems to me highly unlikely anyone would be able to hear a difference, but it can do no harm so it's not a bad thing per se.

Incidentally, the 4311, IMO, makes a terrific 'prepro' regardless of what we might think of that feature - it has XT32, properly configurable dual sub outlets, a great overall spec and - the icing on the cake - it is Audyssey Pro ready too. All for just over a grand.

And it has that killer look on the top of the front panel with that little "curvyness" (is there such a word?) tha was given up by Denon for the 2012 and 2013 models showing a kinda flat face from a side view. smile.gif

P.s. Sorry if the above sentence seems a bit clumsy. You try to describe what I tried to describe in any foreign language that is not English. cool.gifcool.gifcool.gifcool.gifcool.gif

 

Your English, as always, Feri, is impeccable - and way better than our Hungarian!!  Curvyness is word I do believe. 

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Receivers, Amps, and Processors
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › "Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779)