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"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 1944

post #58291 of 70905
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

this is so true....whole house is the only way to go.


Whole house or not, I would never rely solely on that to protect delicate electronics. But maybe that's just me ....

 

Is your HTIB worth so much that it's worth spending money on protection ?

;-)

post #58292 of 70905
Mais, oui!
post #58293 of 70905
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Some power strips include in-line inductors to reduce the amount of high-frequency noise which can be transmitted from one device to another over the power lines. As a result, they reduce the amount of high-frequency current. I don't know about you, but I want that noise filtration in my system. Some people like to claim that inline inductors also reduce the power available for the transient peaks in sound tracks. I don't agree with this. The capacitors in the power supplies provide the power needed for those transients.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

My experience with surge protecting power strips is that they will pass as much current as their circuit breaker allows, even to the point of melting.

So no need for me to be paranoid about limiting the current to my amps? 
Keith, that's what the huge bank of capacitors in the Emo amps is for, to provide the potentially huge current demands for transients. Although it's true that some power conditioners/surge suppressors can limit the current to huge draw devices, it's generally not a problem for anything that's decently designed. They CAN limit the maximum available inrush current for things with large electric motors though, but the highest draw items in an HT setup are the amps, and as mentioned, they use banks of capacitors to store power for those high demand transients, and most of the time, they continual draw from the source is enough to keep everything running just fine. If you have something like a Kill-A-Watt or another device that can measure current draw of the appliances hooked up to it, you'll see that even amps don't really draw a whole lot of current all the time.

BTW, that's also the reason why it's possible to run 2 SubM HP's on a single 15 amp circuit, even though the SubM HP's amps are rated for 2400 watts each. In theory, that could place a 40amp draw on the circuit (2400 watts/120 volts = 20 amps per subwoofer). The amps can store power for the high demand sections (according to Mark, IIRC, something like 15-20 seconds of power reserve at maximum load/draw?). In general though, even the HP's only draw maybe 800 watts each when run at Reference for dynamic/loud material, which is why it's possible to run 2 of them on a circuit that in theory, should only be able to provide 1800 watts.


Max

P.S. I can't remember which thread it was in but Beeman whatsisname was telling folks that they need to upgrade the wiring in their house because the huge draw from modern HT setups places so much demand on the circuits and wiring that it would likely burn their houses down eventually. Using a Belkin PF60 that has a current draw meter and a source voltage meter, I've monitored the partial draw from my HT system at full chat in some of the loudest movie passages at Reference (partial draw because I've divided my HT draw between 3 separate 15 amp circuits, because I can and HAVE tripped the breakers at Reference when putting everything on just 2x15amp circuits.)

Yes, at full chat, my HT setups can draw a LOT of power (sorry greenies, THX Reference HT isn't very green), but most of the time it's coasting. At full chat, part of the system can draw enough from one circuit to cause voltage sag from the usual 120 volts at the wall down to 114 volts for short periods. The reason it's silly to say that HT's draw more power than the circuits were designed to handle is because that poster has NO idea how wiring code is set up. The draw from ONE space heater (the Dyson Hot, which works very well I might add), causes the voltage to sag down to 114 volts the entire time it's running. Plugging an electric iron into a socket does the same thing for one 15 amp circuit, and as I said, this is constant draw vs the occasional draw with an HT system.

In addition, the guy obviously isn't familiar with the concept of circuit breakers and how they're designed to trip if anything tries to draw more power through the circuit than it was designed for. I can attest that the system works fine as I've tripped my breakers more than once (without burning the house down) till I figured out how many circuits I needed to run the whole system at Reference.
Edited by djbluemax1 - 12/20/12 at 11:50am
post #58294 of 70905
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Factory reset won't cause any harm so you may as well try it. See the advice given to the other 818 owner too.

EDIT: remember there are two different sorts of reset now:


RESET Onkyo to Factory

To reset the AV receiver to its factory defaults, turn it on and, while holding down the [VCR/DVR] button on the unit, press the [ON/STANDBY] button on the unit. "Clear" will appear on the display and the AV receiver will enter Standby mode.

Completely clearing an Integra/Onkyo 2010 model the procedure is below.

This works on:
DTR-70.2
DTR-80.2
DHC-80.2
PR-SC5508
(And possibly others)


1) Set the Volume to Default Level: 30(absolute)/-52dB(relative)

2)Push and hold 'Memory' - then push 'Standby/On'
There will be some weird text on front panel display at this point. Press 'Return'.

3) It will show "All Clear??", then press 'Return' again.

On the 818 there is no VCR/DVR button, I pushed CAB/SAT then standby and it cleared but it kept the updated firmware. I will try Audyssey Calibration with mic from my 608. Wish me luck I need it, I'm in a house with three females and three male cats.
post #58295 of 70905
Just (again) did a "factory reset" on my 5508 ... while unit is on, press and hold VCR/DVR and then press and hold the Power button. After a few seconds, CLEAR will appear. Stop pressing buttons.

Mine lost all settings EXCEPT Audyssey calibration.

My 5508 is going back for repair... under warranty. Networking function failed, menu is grayed out. Others have reported that sympton as a precursor to the HDMI board failing.

Jef
post #58296 of 70905
Quote:
Originally Posted by HT INMY BLOOD View Post

On the 818 there is no VCR/DVR button, I pushed CAB/SAT then standby and it cleared but it kept the updated firmware. I will try Audyssey Calibration with mic from my 608. Wish me luck I need it, I'm in a house with three females and three male cats.

 

Good luck!  I assume the three females are not part of a Harem? ;)

post #58297 of 70905
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Good luck!  I assume the three females are not part of a Harem? wink.gif

PRAISE THE LORD IT WORKED, what a difference in sound without any changes made by me. Thanks all and good luck to the rest of you. The world better not end now I finally got it set up. One very happy audiophile. One wife two daughters all in estrogen. Joe
post #58298 of 70905
PRAISE THE LORD IT WORKED, what a difference in sound without any changes made by me. Thanks all and good luck to the rest of you. The world better not end now I finally got it set up. One very happy audiophile. One wife two daughters all in estrogen. Joe

I used mic from 608.
post #58299 of 70905
PRAISE THE LORD IT WORKED, what a difference in sound without any changes made by me. Thanks all and good luck to the rest of you. The world better not end now I finally got it set up. One very happy audiophile. One wife two daughters all in estrogen. Joe

I hope this helps you I can feel your frustration, call Onkyo or where you purchased 818 and demand a new mic or you will send back or just send unit back. Joe
post #58300 of 70905
Quote:
Originally Posted by HT INMY BLOOD View Post

PRAISE THE LORD IT WORKED, what a difference in sound without any changes made by me. Thanks all and good luck to the rest of you. The world better not end now I finally got it set up. One very happy audiophile. One wife two daughters all in estrogen. Joe
I hope this helps you I can feel your frustration, call Onkyo or where you purchased 818 and demand a new mic or you will send back or just send unit back. Joe

Sorry for all post I'm trying to respond to all please forgive my excitement I'm 48 but feel like a 10 yr old at Xmas. Joe
post #58301 of 70905
Quote:
Originally Posted by HT INMY BLOOD View Post

Sorry for all post I'm trying to respond to all please forgive my excitement I'm 48 but feel like a 10 yr old at Xmas. Joe

Are you saying the reset worked or the mic?
post #58302 of 70905
Quote:
Originally Posted by ucfmat13 View Post

Are you saying the reset worked or the mic?

I don't know I reset it and used a different mic and it worked so can't say for sure if it was one or both. I wish you the best of luck. I am watching War Horse on Blu-ray and the sound is the best I've heard since I got my home theatre set up, it sounds better then the 608 which still sounds good, it's in my bedroom now. Joe
Edited by HT INMY BLOOD - 12/20/12 at 4:53pm
post #58303 of 70905
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

OK, thanks 64deuce. So, if I were you I would do the following changes in the speaker setup.
1. Swap Front Left with sub. Swap Front Right with small table. Pull both Fronts to line up with front side of cabinet. Toe-in both Fronts to face MLP (Main Listening Position). These changes will significantly improve front stage imaging in your room.
2. Pull Center and nudge it off the front side of the cabinet. Use some decorative supporters to make it face seated ear height. This is most important for best dialog intelligibility.
3. Move surrounds away from couch as much as possible to the left and right. Make them face each other, i.e. the listener(s). This will improve surround effects.
4. Rerun Audyssey.
Report back please. smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Nope, it doesn't matter. Just think about it. If you turn up all the speakers equally then you did nothing for the balance of all speaker levels, the only thing that happens is that movie theater reference level set by Audyssey will now not be at 0 dB MV (Master Volume) setting, but at something lower. If you turn up all speakers by (say) +4 dB, then your reference level on the MV will be at -4dB. I wouldn't do that. eek.giftongue.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Hmmm, ...nothing is perfect at the first time, ...well,...at least in this world of the HT hobbists! Unless otherwise this AVS Forum would not exist, eh? Enjoy tweaking! smile.gif Ah, ...and BTW, please don't forget to report back. We always learn something from each other's experience. smile.gif


Hey guys thanks for your insight!!! I moved the speakers where you suggested and re ran audyssey. Got -1 on the bass. Turned up the sub itself a little and the dialogue again. It sounds much better though. The further speakers apart give it MUCH better "surround."

I think the main problem with the bass was that it was still too high on the sub itself. I turned itt way down on this run and boom! Pun intended.

Thanks again!
post #58304 of 70905
@max...

good post... smile.gif hopefully that can clear up some, ummm, misunderstandings, some might have...
post #58305 of 70905
OK guys never mind. It seems that every time I turn off the reckever then turn it back on again later the bass just dies. If I can remember correctly this happened with my RX v661. I have no idea what the hell it is but it's frustrating as hell! Especially considering that when I first plugged in the sub (turned it way down) it was shaking everything. Now it's like mute. I reset the microprocessor and will run audyssey again when I get hone from work.

The only other thing I could think about is that I have too much stuff plugged I to one outlet but nothing flickers when everything is turned on and up...
post #58306 of 70905
Quote:
Originally Posted by 64deuce View Post

OK guys never mind. It seems that every time I turn off the reckever then turn it back on again later the bass just dies. If I can remember correctly this happened with my RX v661. I have no idea what the hell it is but it's frustrating as hell! Especially considering that when I first plugged in the sub (turned it way down) it was shaking everything. Now it's like mute. I reset the microprocessor and will run audyssey again when I get hone from work.
The only other thing I could think about is that I have too much stuff plugged I to one outlet but nothing flickers when everything is turned on and up...

Do you have an "Auto" switch on the subwoofer? If you do and have it set that way, try setting the sub to 'ON' turn off receiver and then back on.
post #58307 of 70905
I have a question regarding vibration effect on Audyssey mic.

Currently, my floor has a shaking resonance frequency of 30Hz. That means the floor will shake with the strongest amplitude when the subwoofer is playing 30Hz.
I tried my best by putting some foam below the tripod stand (which is holding the mic), but maybe the mic will still shake a little at 30Hz.
If I were to run Audyssey setup, will the Audyssey mic detect the 30Hz as an excessive room mode and greatly reduce the 30Hz?

I've read the FAQ...stating that vibrating mic can give a false reading of shorter distance of subwoofer, but there is none mention about wrongly applied cut to a frequency. Is that possible?
post #58308 of 70905
There are special foam supports for tripods to address this problem. Your foam approach sounds like a good way to go. Try it and see how it sounds.

Noel
post #58309 of 70905
I have a tripod that I have placed on carpet to run Audyssey. Will carpet cause vibrations like the couch would? Thanks!
post #58310 of 70905
I am considering getting the Denon 4311 or Onkyo 818. I was told the high end Denon's like the 4311 are made in Japan not like the entry level receivers that are made in China like my current 1611 model. I am not sure were Onkyo manufactures their receivers. I am not going to add a second sub nor add more speakers than 5.1 because of space. Which receiver would be the best of the two to get as far as features and were its made?
post #58311 of 70905
Quote:
Originally Posted by asere View Post

I am considering getting the Denon 4311 or Onkyo 818. I was told the high end Denon's like the 4311 are made in Japan not like the entry level receivers that are made in China like my current 1611 model. I am not sure were Onkyo manufactures their receivers. I am not going to add a second sub nor add more speakers than 5.1 because of space. Which receiver would be the best of the two to get as far as features and were its made?
If you can still get the 4311 I would go with that. More capable.
post #58312 of 70905
Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

If you can still get the 4311 I would go with that. More capable.

Even if the 4311 has no THX ? What makes it hard for me to decide is also the cost for just upgrading to XT32. Like I said I won't be using a second sub, more speakers just plain 5.1 with XT32 and maybe THX processing if I go with the 818.
post #58313 of 70905
Quote:
Originally Posted by asere View Post

Even if the 4311 has no THX ? What makes it hard for me to decide is also the cost for just upgrading to XT32. Like I said I won't be using a second sub, more speakers just plain 5.1 with XT32 and maybe THX processing if I go with the 818.

I just upgraded to the 818 and after running Audyssey I am impressed by the sound difference, even my wife said wow, she watches shows on reg SD and it drives me crazy and I'm always putting the HD channel on. When I ask her she says she can't tell the difference. I did purchase a lower model Denon but returned it because my Onkyo 608 sounded better. I have listened to Sony(first purchase) a Denon and Onkyo and like the Onkyo better, especially with the lower price tag. Not only is the sound better but watching a show on cable is better, all of the colors just exploded off the screen and my TV is a 50" Samsung DLP which is 6 yrs old and on second bulb. My LR is very bright I have a 50" plasma upstairs. I am very happy with the sound from the 818 and can definitely hear the difference with the XT32. Joe
post #58314 of 70905
Quote:
Originally Posted by asere View Post

Even if the 4311 has no THX ? What makes it hard for me to decide is also the cost for just upgrading to XT32. Like I said I won't be using a second sub, more speakers just plain 5.1 with XT32 and maybe THX processing if I go with the 818.

While I don't think THX certification is meaningless, the absence of THX certification ddoes not mean a unit is inferior, just that the manufacturer has made a decision not to incur the costs of pursuing the certification. I haven't used the THX processing modes, so I don't know how they compare to what you get from dolby, etc. I note for the record that Tomlinson Holman, who "invented" THX, is at Audyssey now (unless he left recently), FWIW.
post #58315 of 70905
Quote:
Originally Posted by HT INMY BLOOD View Post

I just upgraded to the 818 and after running Audyssey I am impressed by the sound difference, even my wife said wow, she watches shows on reg SD and it drives me crazy and I'm always putting the HD channel on. When I ask her she says she can't tell the difference. I did purchase a lower model Denon but returned it because my Onkyo 608 sounded better. I have listened to Sony(first purchase) a Denon and Onkyo and like the Onkyo better, especially with the lower price tag. Not only is the sound better but watching a show on cable is better, all of the colors just exploded off the screen and my TV is a 50" Samsung DLP which is 6 yrs old and on second bulb. My LR is very bright I have a 50" plasma upstairs. I am very happy with the sound from the 818 and can definitely hear the difference with the XT32. Joe

The 818 also has Neo X and Marvell that the 4311 doesn't have, plus I rather get the latest bells and whistles and the 4311 seems outdated.
post #58316 of 70905
Quote:
Originally Posted by asere View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

If you can still get the 4311 I would go with that. More capable.

Even if the 4311 has no THX ? What makes it hard for me to decide is also the cost for just upgrading to XT32. Like I said I won't be using a second sub, more speakers just plain 5.1 with XT32 and maybe THX processing if I go with the 818.
Just my personal opinion, but I would choose the 4311 for these reasons listed in order of importance:
1) the 4311 has been out for some time with no reports of design flaws causing critical failures. Unfortunately, Onkyo has been plagued by HDMI board failures for a few generations in a row (and I experienced this failure about 18 months after getting my 5008) and since the failures tend to occur 18-24 months after purchase, we won't know if they've fixed the design in the 818 until ~2014.
2) A good, reliable avr can be in your setup for 10 or more years easily (unless you need to upgrade for the latest and greatest, like 4k or something). You may not have more than 5.1 now, but what about 5 years down the road?
3) If you get bitten by the Audyssey bug and want more, the 4311 can be upgraded to Audyssey Pro. No US models from Onkyo offer XT32 Pro.
4) I've tried the THX modes on my 5008. I haven't used a THX mode since the 5 or 6th week after getting the 5008. YMMV on this. Some folks like the THX modes, I find them unnecessary and of little use. If the audio is 5.1, that's how I listen to it. If it was originally Stereo, then I listen to it in Stereo (with Audyssey XT32 taking care of the EQ and the avr taking care of bass management to the subwoofers).


Max
post #58317 of 70905
If you are sure only one sub and 5.1 or maybe 7.1 the 818 would be excellent. I was told by the President of a respected audio company that Onkyo was the best sounding of the Japanese (inferring Denon and Yamaha). I have never tried to compare but have owned all three and no complaints but the 4310 is a bit technically glitchy.
post #58318 of 70905
^^^. Max makes some good points for 4311. I have a TX-NR1008 that is great with no issues but I am no longer using it so perhaps I did not go long enough (guessing 2+ years) to risk failure.
post #58319 of 70905
Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Some power strips include in-line inductors to reduce the amount of high-frequency noise which can be transmitted from one device to another over the power lines. As a result, they reduce the amount of high-frequency current. I don't know about you, but I want that noise filtration in my system. Some people like to claim that inline inductors also reduce the power available for the transient peaks in sound tracks. I don't agree with this. The capacitors in the power supplies provide the power needed for those transients.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

My experience with surge protecting power strips is that they will pass as much current as their circuit breaker allows, even to the point of melting.

So no need for me to be paranoid about limiting the current to my amps? 
Keith, that's what the huge bank of capacitors in the Emo amps is for, to provide the potentially huge current demands for transients. Although it's true that some power conditioners/surge suppressors can limit the current to huge draw devices, it's generally not a problem for anything that's decently designed. They CAN limit the maximum available inrush current for things with large electric motors though, but the highest draw items in an HT setup are the amps, and as mentioned, they use banks of capacitors to store power for those high demand transients, and most of the time, they continual draw from the source is enough to keep everything running just fine. If you have something like a Kill-A-Watt or another device that can measure current draw of the appliances hooked up to it, you'll see that even amps don't really draw a whole lot of current all the time.

BTW, that's also the reason why it's possible to run 2 SubM HP's on a single 15 amp circuit, even though the SubM HP's amps are rated for 2400 watts each. In theory, that could place a 40amp draw on the circuit (2400 watts/120 volts = 20 amps per subwoofer). The amps can store power for the high demand sections (according to Mark, IIRC, something like 15-20 seconds of power reserve at maximum load/draw?). In general though, even the HP's only draw maybe 800 watts each when run at Reference for dynamic/loud material, which is why it's possible to run 2 of them on a circuit that in theory, should only be able to provide 1800 watts.


Max

P.S. I can't remember which thread it was in but Beeman whatsisname was telling folks that they need to upgrade the wiring in their house because the huge draw from modern HT setups places so much demand on the circuits and wiring that it would likely burn their houses down eventually. Using a Belkin PF60 that has a current draw meter and a source voltage meter, I've monitored the partial draw from my HT system at full chat in some of the loudest movie passages at Reference (partial draw because I've divided my HT draw between 3 separate 15 amp circuits, because I can and HAVE tripped the breakers at Reference when putting everything on just 2x15amp circuits.)

Yes, at full chat, my HT setups can draw a LOT of power (sorry greenies, THX Reference HT isn't very green), but most of the time it's coasting. At full chat, part of the system can draw enough from one circuit to cause voltage sag from the usual 120 volts at the wall down to 114 volts for short periods. The reason it's silly to say that HT's draw more power than the circuits were designed to handle is because that poster has NO idea how wiring code is set up. The draw from ONE space heater (the Dyson Hot, which works very well I might add), causes the voltage to sag down to 114 volts the entire time it's running. Plugging an electric iron into a socket does the same thing for one 15 amp circuit, and as I said, this is constant draw vs the occasional draw with an HT system.

In addition, the guy obviously isn't familiar with the concept of circuit breakers and how they're designed to trip if anything tries to draw more power through the circuit than it was designed for. I can attest that the system works fine as I've tripped my breakers more than once (without burning the house down) till I figured out how many circuits I needed to run the whole system at Reference.

 

Max - great post and I thank you for taking the time to explain it in detail. As I'm sure you know, the UK mains voltage is 240v so we have some extra latitude in our circuits compared with you 120v guys. I do have a Kill-A-Watt (style) meter and it records the maximum current drawn between resets and I have never seen my HT gear draw more than 10 amps of my available 13, even when running at full chat for a few hours. Usually it draws around 7 amps.

post #58320 of 70905
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Just (again) did a "factory reset" on my 5508 ... while unit is on, press and hold VCR/DVR and then press and hold the Power button. After a few seconds, CLEAR will appear. Stop pressing buttons.

Mine lost all settings EXCEPT Audyssey calibration.

My 5508 is going back for repair... under warranty. Networking function failed, menu is grayed out. Others have reported that sympton as a precursor to the HDMI board failing.

Jef

 

Jeff, did you try the 'alternative' reset?

 

 

RESET Onkyo to Factory

 

 

Completely clearing an Integra/Onkyo 2010 model the procedure is below.

 

This works on:

DTR-70.2

DTR-80.2

DHC-80.2

PR-SC5508

 

 

1) Set the Volume to Default Level: 30(absolute)/-52dB(relative)

 

2)Push and hold 'Memory' - then push 'Standby/On'

There will be some weird text on front panel display at this point. Press 'Return'.

 

3) It will show "All Clear??", then press 'Return' again.

 

 

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