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"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 1945

post #58321 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by HT INMY BLOOD View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Good luck!  I assume the three females are not part of a Harem? wink.gif

PRAISE THE LORD IT WORKED, what a difference in sound without any changes made by me. Thanks all and good luck to the rest of you. The world better not end now I finally got it set up. One very happy audiophile. One wife two daughters all in estrogen. Joe

 

Excellent!  And the world didn't end either!  IKWYM wrt to 'all in oestrogen"  I have twin daughters and when they lived at home, I remember it well!  

post #58322 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

I have a question regarding vibration effect on Audyssey mic.

Currently, my floor has a shaking resonance frequency of 30Hz. That means the floor will shake with the strongest amplitude when the subwoofer is playing 30Hz.
I tried my best by putting some foam below the tripod stand (which is holding the mic), but maybe the mic will still shake a little at 30Hz.
If I were to run Audyssey setup, will the Audyssey mic detect the 30Hz as an excessive room mode and greatly reduce the 30Hz?

I've read the FAQ...stating that vibrating mic can give a false reading of shorter distance of subwoofer, but there is none mention about wrongly applied cut to a frequency. Is that possible?

 

Somewhere in this FAQ answer, there is a link to some special tripod isolating feet designed to help with the potential issue you are having:

 

d)1.   Do I really need to put the Audyssey mic on a tripod or stand?

post #58323 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by asere View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

If you can still get the 4311 I would go with that. More capable.

Even if the 4311 has no THX ? What makes it hard for me to decide is also the cost for just upgrading to XT32. Like I said I won't be using a second sub, more speakers just plain 5.1 with XT32 and maybe THX processing if I go with the 818.

 

The 4311 has 9 channels of amplification, the ability to power 11 channels with the addition of an external 2ch amp, is Audyssey Pro-ready and is more fully featured in various ways. It is a truly great AVR IMO.

 

But from what you say - 5.1 max, single sub - I would go with the 818 - currently at Newegg for less than $700. The cheapest way imaginable into XT32.

post #58324 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Jeff, did you try the 'alternative' reset?


RESET Onkyo to Factory


Completely clearing an Integra/Onkyo 2010 model the procedure is below.

This works on:
DTR-70.2
DTR-80.2
DHC-80.2
PR-SC5508


1) Set the Volume to Default Level: 30(absolute)/-52dB(relative)

2)Push and hold 'Memory' - then push 'Standby/On'
There will be some weird text on front panel display at this point. Press 'Return'.

3) It will show "All Clear??", then press 'Return' again.

Didn;t do that one, just VCR/DVR and Standby/On. Will try it now. Wonder why the Onky support guy didn't have me try that one?
post #58325 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by asere View Post

Even if the 4311 has no THX ? What makes it hard for me to decide is also the cost for just upgrading to XT32. Like I said I won't be using a second sub, more speakers just plain 5.1 with XT32 and maybe THX processing if I go with the 818.

While I don't think THX certification is meaningless, the absence of THX certification ddoes not mean a unit is inferior, just that the manufacturer has made a decision not to incur the costs of pursuing the certification. I haven't used the THX processing modes, so I don't know how they compare to what you get from dolby, etc. I note for the record that Tomlinson Holman, who "invented" THX, is at Audyssey now (unless he left recently), FWIW.

 

As you suggest, THX doesn't just give the (alleged) benefits of certification but does add other features unique to THX units. The THX processing modes are among those features, but THX units also have specific crossover settings for use with THX certified speakers and subs and they also work correctly with dialog normalisation (dialnorm) meaning there is no need to faff about with the MV setting when a dialnormed disc is being played. THX Loudness Plus is also offered which is an alternative to Audyssey Dynamic EQ (and which some prefer).

post #58326 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Jeff, did you try the 'alternative' reset?


RESET Onkyo to Factory


Completely clearing an Integra/Onkyo 2010 model the procedure is below.

This works on:
DTR-70.2
DTR-80.2
DHC-80.2
PR-SC5508


1) Set the Volume to Default Level: 30(absolute)/-52dB(relative)

2)Push and hold 'Memory' - then push 'Standby/On'
There will be some weird text on front panel display at this point. Press 'Return'.

3) It will show "All Clear??", then press 'Return' again.
 
Didn;t do that one, just VCR/DVR and Standby/On. Will try it now. Wonder why the Onkyo support guy didn't have me try that one?

 

You answered your own question ;)

post #58327 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Jeff, did you try the 'alternative' reset?


RESET Onkyo to Factory


Completely clearing an Integra/Onkyo 2010 model the procedure is below.

This works on:
DTR-70.2
DTR-80.2
DHC-80.2
PR-SC5508


1) Set the Volume to Default Level: 30(absolute)/-52dB(relative)

2)Push and hold 'Memory' - then push 'Standby/On'
There will be some weird text on front panel display at this point. Press 'Return'.

3) It will show "All Clear??", then press 'Return' again.


Arrrgghh. That one didn't restore networking, but it did wipe my Audyssey calibration. Now I need to run the consumer Audyssey setup to use when some friends visit over the holiday. I'd just reload Pro, but ... networking isn't functioning. frown.gif

For anyone else whose networking stops, I've discovered on the 80.2 thread that this is likely a sign of a failing HDMI board. If so, the only fix is at a repair center.
post #58328 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

....there is no need to faff about with the MV setting...

Faff about? Is this in the Queen's English?
post #58329 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by asere View Post

The 818 also has Neo X and Marvell that the 4311 doesn't have, plus I rather get the latest bells and whistles and the 4311 seems outdated.

You just said you will be doing a plain 5.1 setup -- Neo:X is irrelevant!!! Like DSX, it's a means to expand BEYOND a traditional 5.1/7.1 setup with height + wide speakers.

The video processing is also a non issue, the 4311 has a very capable ABT scaler and good processing; it's the same scaler Oppo used for a while.

Anyway, that said, if you truly will never go beyond a 5.1 setup I would save my money and get the Onkyo 818. As noted above it's by far the cheapest way to get XT32. The only downside is the potential reliability issues, but I don't know enough to judge whether these concerns are justified or overblown.
post #58330 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post


Faff about? Is this in the Queen's English?


By Jove, it is:

 

Phrasal Verb: Faff about


Meaning: Behave indecisively

Example: He told her to stop FAFFING ABOUT and make her mind up.

post #58331 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Jeff, did you try the 'alternative' reset?


RESET Onkyo to Factory


Completely clearing an Integra/Onkyo 2010 model the procedure is below.

This works on:
DTR-70.2
DTR-80.2
DHC-80.2
PR-SC5508


1) Set the Volume to Default Level: 30(absolute)/-52dB(relative)

2)Push and hold 'Memory' - then push 'Standby/On'
There will be some weird text on front panel display at this point. Press 'Return'.

3) It will show "All Clear??", then press 'Return' again.
 

Arrrgghh. That one didn't restore networking, but it did wipe my Audyssey calibration. Now I need to run the consumer Audyssey setup to use when some friends visit over the holiday. I'd just reload Pro, but ... networking isn't functioning. frown.gif

For anyone else whose networking stops, I've discovered on the 80.2 thread that this is likely a sign of a failing HDMI board. If so, the only fix is at a repair center.

 

"Bugger", said Pooh....

post #58332 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

....there is no need to faff about with the MV setting...

Faff about? Is this in the Queen's English?

 

It is indeed, Jerry. It's a polite form of "arse about"  :)

post #58333 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by flint350 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post


Faff about? Is this in the Queen's English?


By Jove, it is:

 

Phrasal Verb: Faff about


Meaning: Behave indecisively

Example: He told her to stop FAFFING ABOUT and make her mind up.


Ha! i've been wondering for a very long time where the french canadian slang verb "Farfiner" comes from.

now i know and also know that the meaning is the same in both languages and it's used in english Canada.

It may also have been imported from France when Quebec was a french colony; the word "Farfiner" was in use in France during the middle ages.


Edited by Gellidius - 12/21/12 at 11:23am
post #58334 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Excellent!  And the world didn't end either!  IKWYM wrt to 'all in oestrogen"  I have twin daughters and when they lived at home, I remember it well!  

Thanks for taking the time to write and I laughed with your reference to twin girls. Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, Happy Hannakah or whatever you celebrate. My mother died in June, I had neck surgery in July and my father died in September so the holidays have been rough this year. Thanks to you and all who take the time to help people without any thought of payment upon services. God Bless, Joe
post #58335 of 70884
On the subject of proper surge protection I've read several times on the net that pros recommend BOTH whole house surge protectors and smaller point-of-use ones due to differing types of voltage surges/spikes you can have. Both have their uses and needs. A friend of mine recently had a squirrel chew through their main electrical lead from the outdoor pole and shorted out/blew out almost all electrical appliances and electronics in the house (true story...not making it up nor reporting something I read on the net). Their electrician said the same thing after installing a whole house suppressor for them (after the power company came out and first replaced their house lead). My friend put in numerous point-of-use surge protectors also, at least on the expensive electronic A/V stuff. We also live in southern California so normally no one worries about lightning strikes hitting our homes and blowing out things since real thunder storms are very rare here. There are still those pesky rodents tho. eek.gif

For instance read here: http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/article/0,,387874,00.html and here: http://www.electronichouse.com/article/help_with_whole-house_surge_protection/. Even Home Depot says the same thing here: http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/catalog/servlet/ContentView?pn=Surge_Protectors&storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053. Take it as you will.
post #58336 of 70884
I will have a Marantz AV-8801 in a week or so. I am looking forward to having XT32 room correction. I may purchase the Pro kit later, but I plan to use the standard XT32 to start with. Even so, I have read the Pro Installer FAQ to get as much information as I can prior to running calibration.

I have Apogee Mini-Grand speakers which are full range ribbon panels with two (non-powered) Vifa 8" subs in each of the panel's stands. So I have dual subwoofers. Note that because they are incorporated into the panel's stands, there is no way to vary the subs' placement in the room. However, they will be directly under the main left and right speakers, equidistant from the MLP and front and side walls.

The Mini-Grands came with an electronic crossover, but I plan on using Audyssey's built-in crossovers. I am going from a 5.0 setup to a 9.2 setup (with wide and side surrounds).

I noticed the gain matching suggestion in the FAQ.

Since my subs will be driven by two channels of the MM-8077 power amp, I will have no gain control over either sub (other than the volume position of the AV-8801). So am I correct in my determination that I cannot do gain matching?

I do have a Radio Shack SPL meter, so I can set a reference level by adjusting the AV-8801's volume knob prior to doing auto calibration.

Should I set the AV-8801 volume so I get a reference level of 75 dB output on the subs, or on the panels?

Thanks for any info that might help,

Steven.
post #58337 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by HT INMY BLOOD View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Excellent!  And the world didn't end either!  IKWYM wrt to 'all in oestrogen"  I have twin daughters and when they lived at home, I remember it well!  

Thanks for taking the time to write and I laughed with your reference to twin girls. Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, Happy Hannakah or whatever you celebrate. My mother died in June, I had neck surgery in July and my father died in September so the holidays have been rough this year. Thanks to you and all who take the time to help people without any thought of payment upon services. God Bless, Joe

 

Thanks for the seasonal good wishes - to you too. Sorry to hear of the awful year you have had. Here's wishing you a happier 2013!

post #58338 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

"Bugger", said Pooh....

Or maybe I'll listen w/o Audyssey and see what it's like.

J
post #58339 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Somewhere in this FAQ answer, there is a link to some special tripod isolating feet designed to help with the potential issue you are having:

d)1.   Do I really need to put the Audyssey mic on a tripod or stand?
So the answer to my question is yes? Audyssey will cut the 30Hz frequency?
post #58340 of 70884
Please help me explain this Audyssey behavior.

I am running a dual subwoofer setup with crossover at 80Hz on all channels.

After running Audyssey (Denon 4520) in 8 positions, I am left with a roughly 5dB null at about 55 Hz.

I can then level out the null by using both of the parametric equalizers on one of my subs, such that I am fairly flat from 15Hz to 80Hz.

Now, if I run Audyssey again without changing the parametric EQ settings, the null at 55 Hz returns!

My questions are:

1. Why does Audyssey seem to want a null at 55Hz in my main listening position?

2. Should I level out the null with my subwoofer's parametric EQ, or leave it the way Audyssey set it?

Thanks for any input.
post #58341 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSTide View Post

My questions are:
1. Why does Audyssey seem to want a null at 55Hz in my main listening position?
2. Should I level out the null with my subwoofer's parametric EQ, or leave it the way Audyssey set it?
Thanks for any input.

This is an interesting problem. I don't think Audyssey actually wants the 5dB null, but I also don't think you have provided enough information to understand what is going on. I am assuming that if you know the 5dB null is there, you must have a way of measuring your room response. What does the response curve look like before you run Audyssey, without any PEQ being applied? Can you post graphs of this response, ideally one for each sub by itself, and then one with both subs combined?

If you are going to use PEQ, the general rule is to apply it prior to running Audyssey, and then let Audyssey do the final smoothing. Since this doesn't seem to be working, the underlying problem needs to be analyzed.
post #58342 of 70884
Ok I'll give this a shot.

Here is my PB13 ultra by itself. As you can see there is a horrific dip at 52 Hz:



And here is my PB12 plus, which has very different problems:



Now both together:



Better but still a healthy dip at 55 Hz. Here is an overlay of the curve with Audyssey on, which improves things a little:



Now we add one PEQ adjustment on the PB12. My PB13 has an older BASH amp and therefore can only deal with peaks. These three curves represent both subs with no correction, 1 PEQ without Audyssey, and 1 PEQ with Audyssey, each with an improved SPL at 55 Hz:



And finally, using both the PEQs on the PB12 with Audyssey on, we get this (overlayed on the single PEQ curve), which I'm pretty pleased with:



At this point, I leave the PEQs enabled on the PB12, and re-run Audyssey, and we get this. Note that the red curve is the new curve:



Bringing back the dip at 55 Hz, which I now have no way to correct!

So, I disabled the PEQ again and ran Audyssey once more, with a similar curve to the last, but now with the ability to use the PEQ if I want.

So my original two questions:

Why does Audyssey put back the dip? and

Should I correct it with the PEQ?
post #58343 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSTide View Post


So my original two questions:
Why does Audyssey put back the dip? and
Should I correct it with the PEQ?

Well, it would be difficult to explain what is going on here, but I am not sure your expectation is correct. In one case, you start out with no PEQ, run Audyssey, and add PEQ to flatten the curve, I.e. PEQ is "on top of" Audyssey. In the other case, after you have invoked PEQ, you run Audyssey, I.e. Audyssey "on top of" PEQ. You might think that either way should produce the same results, but I'm not so sure. I have no personal experience with combining Audyssey with PEQ, so I can't explain the difference.

However, given the result with PEQ applied after Audyssey, I would definitely leave it that way. If you ever need to re-run Audyssey, I would first turn off PEQ, then run Audyssey and finally re-apply PEQ to achieve the flattened curve.

BTW, I didn't see a graph of both PEQ's applied, with Audyssey off. That graph has the potential of revealing what is going on here.
post #58344 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Jeff, did you try the 'alternative' reset?


RESET Onkyo to Factory


Completely clearing an Integra/Onkyo 2010 model the procedure is below.

This works on:
DTR-70.2
DTR-80.2
DHC-80.2
PR-SC5508


1) Set the Volume to Default Level: 30(absolute)/-52dB(relative)

2)Push and hold 'Memory' - then push 'Standby/On'
There will be some weird text on front panel display at this point. Press 'Return'.

3) It will show "All Clear??", then press 'Return' again.


Arrrgghh. That one didn't restore networking, but it did wipe my Audyssey calibration. Now I need to run the consumer Audyssey setup to use when some friends visit over the holiday. I'd just reload Pro, but ... networking isn't functioning. frown.gif

For anyone else whose networking stops, I've discovered on the 80.2 thread that this is likely a sign of a failing HDMI board. If so, the only fix is at a repair center.
Jeff, that IS indeed a sign of the dreaded HDMI board failure.

If however, you need Networking to reload your Pro calibration, here's something that tends to work. BTW, I assume you're still getting audio from the unit from HDMI sources since you didn't mention that disappearing?

In any case, in the early stages of the HDMI board failure, it can be possible to restore full functionality by toggling various settings and powering the avr on and off (might be helpful especially if you want to restore a calibration for guests etc.).

Go in the menu to HDMI and toggle the ARC settings on and off and power cycle the avr after toggling. Check the menu a few seconds after powering the avr On. This weird ritual can restore audio if audio is lost due to early stages of HDMI board failure, and will also restore full Menu options. It's only a workaround though, as in the later stages, it will take longer periods of toggling to restore functionality, till the terminal stage, when no amount of toggling will do anything.


Max
post #58345 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSTide View Post

Why does Audyssey put back the dip?

Should I correct it with the PEQ?

It sounds like it's an integration issue, i.e. a question of how the wave fronts from the two sources interfere. Any which way to solve it should be fine although the two different orders of eq'ing have some rather substantial differences in terms of reproducibility.

Make sure that your fix works across all seats.

PEQ vs phase is a complicated matter. Some filters are supposed to introduce a 360 degree delay, i.e., to preserve phase, while others are 180 degrees, 90 degrees, and similar. I have never been able to rely on these numbers, though, when integrating things.

Some informative sources are

http://www.rane.com/note160.html
http://www.libinst.com/tpfd.htm


EDIT: just noticed that you're dealing with two subs, not subs and fronts; that probably makes the two links a bit less relevant.
Edited by ReneV - 12/22/12 at 3:14am
post #58346 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Somewhere in this FAQ answer, there is a link to some special tripod isolating feet designed to help with the potential issue you are having:

d)1.   Do I really need to put the Audyssey mic on a tripod or stand?
So the answer to my question is yes? Audyssey will cut the 30Hz frequency?

 

If a 'stray' 30Hz tone is getting into the mic during measurement, then Audyssey will regard it as significant and try to EQ for it. Floor-borne bass is a problem during measuring, especially as it arrives at the mic before air-borne bass, and you need to try to eliminate it. Those pads mentioned in the FAQ answer seem to be designed to isolate the mic/stand from the floor so there's a fair chance they will work.

post #58347 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

"Bugger", said Pooh....

Or maybe I'll listen w/o Audyssey and see what it's like.

J

 

Perish the thought, Jeff!

post #58348 of 70884
I agree, I should not have used the word "accurate". It has no place with so many variables present.
post #58349 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

Jeff, that IS indeed a sign of the dreaded HDMI board failure.
If however, you need Networking to reload your Pro calibration, here's something that tends to work. BTW, I assume you're still getting audio from the unit from HDMI sources since you didn't mention that disappearing?
In any case, in the early stages of the HDMI board failure, it can be possible to restore full functionality by toggling various settings and powering the avr on and off (might be helpful especially if you want to restore a calibration for guests etc.).
Go in the menu to HDMI and toggle the ARC settings on and off and power cycle the avr after toggling. Check the menu a few seconds after powering the avr On. This weird ritual can restore audio if audio is lost due to early stages of HDMI board failure, and will also restore full Menu options. It's only a workaround though, as in the later stages, it will take longer periods of toggling to restore functionality, till the terminal stage, when no amount of toggling will do anything.
Max

Thanks, Max. So far, loss of networking is my only symptom. I'll run MultEQ XT 32 this afternoon. Before doing that, I'll try your workaround as I'd prefer to reload Pro . In any case, I only need to get through the next week with guests before taking it to the nearest authorized center.

Jeff
post #58350 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Perish the thought, Jeff!

I'd only do it in the name of research!
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