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"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 1946

post #58351 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Thanks, Max. So far, loss of networking is my only symptom. I'll run MultEQ XT 32 this afternoon. Before doing that, I'll try your workaround as I'd prefer to reload Pro . In any case, I only need to get through the next week with guests before taking it to the nearest authorized center.

Jeff

 

For your own benefit I assume?  Guests will typically be blown away regardless I would expect? 

 

I saw The Hobbit in 3D IMAX yesterday. I was totally blown away by the 3D - it was just sensationally immersive and involving on that huge screen. At home I don't bother with 3D at all - I think you do need a vast screen for it to work well. The sound was very good (this is a brand new IMAX only opened a few weeks ago so I expect it has all the latest refinements). But it wasn't as good as my sound at home. My bass is better, my treble is better, my imaging is better, my overall refinement is better. The only thing about the sound that struck me as better than what I have at home was the absolutely huge soundstage - but short of selling my house and buying an IMAX theatre, I am never going to be able to have a space like that am I!

 

EDIT: Incidentally, this movie was shot digitally at 48 fps. It did not look as 'filmic' as traditionally shot movies (using film) but other than the lack of motion blur, I didn’t see any special issues because of the frame rate. It didn't look like 'video' to me but it did have the 'digital' look that all movies shot digitally have, regardless of their frame rate.  I think that for a very fast-paced action movie like The Hobbit, the 48 fps is a benefit rather than a negative (as some seem to believe).

 

Incidentally, the cinema manager was telling me that they have had to fit the server inside the projector for The Hobbit as no cables can currently handle the bandwidth. Usually (and I didn't know this till yesterday) the servers are centrally located and the movie is fed out to the PJ via cable. (The cinema manager is a friend of the friend I went to see the movie with - even I am not as geeky as to engage the cinema manager every time I go see a film! :))  I am fairly convinced that the incredible 3D effects were at least partly due to the 48 fps BTW.


Edited by kbarnes701 - 12/22/12 at 9:49am
post #58352 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Perish the thought, Jeff!

I'd only do it in the name of research!

 

:)  Quite. And even then, only brief research ;)

post #58353 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceTBC View Post

On the subject of proper surge protection I've read several times on the net that pros recommend BOTH whole house surge protectors and smaller point-of-use ones due to differing types of voltage surges/spikes you can have. Both have their uses and needs. A friend of mine recently had a squirrel chew through their main electrical lead from the outdoor pole and shorted out/blew out almost all electrical appliances and electronics in the house (true story...not making it up nor reporting something I read on the net). Their electrician said the same thing after installing a whole house suppressor for them (after the power company came out and first replaced their house lead). My friend put in numerous point-of-use surge protectors also, at least on the expensive electronic A/V stuff. We also live in southern California so normally no one worries about lightning strikes hitting our homes and blowing out things since real thunder storms are very rare here. There are still those pesky rodents tho. eek.gif
For instance read here: http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/article/0,,387874,00.html and here: http://www.electronichouse.com/article/help_with_whole-house_surge_protection/. Even Home Depot says the same thing here: http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/catalog/servlet/ContentView?pn=Surge_Protectors&storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053. Take it as you will.

Point-of-use devices typically have insurance policies on attached devices. There's lots of fine print, but it's not that difficult to comply. I have never had damage to anything protected by the local suppressors, but I have had an appliance (not on local suppression) that *seemed* to have been damaged when power was restored after an outage. This happened in spite of the whole house suppression.

"Take it as you will." Indeed.

Jeff
post #58354 of 70896
Keith,

Your mentioning of the 48fps seems to be causing a lot of controversy, with a lot of people absolutely hating it. The movie reviewer in my hometown of Chicago recommended that people see it in the 24fps format and avoid the 48 version at all costs.

Here's an article as to why one scientist thinks 48fps doesn't work;

http://movieline.com/2012/12/14/hobbit-high-frame-rate-science-48-frames-per-second/
post #58355 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Murphy View Post

Keith,

Your mentioning of the 48fps seems to be causing a lot of controversy, with a lot of people absolutely hating it. The movie reviewer in my hometown of Chicago recommended that people see it in the 24fps format and avoid the 48 version at all costs.

Here's an article as to why one scientist thinks 48fps doesn't work;

http://movieline.com/2012/12/14/hobbit-high-frame-rate-science-48-frames-per-second/

 

Hi Patrick - yes, this is why I mentioned it. It looked just fine on The Hobbit 3D. I was expecting it to look like 'video' but it didn't - no more so than any other movie shot digitally anyway. The higher fram rate just seemed to improve the numerous fast pans etc and also I am sure it is why I loved the 3D so much. I am not usually a fan of 3D. I only went to see the movie because I have a friend who is a friend of the cinema manager and we got in free, and also had chance to talk to the manager, which I found interesting as he was very knowledgeable and had been a former projectionist too. I particularly wanted to see a) the 48 fps and b) the impact it might or might not have on the 3D. On all counts I was impressed.

 

I think we have to remember why 24 fps has been used traditionally - simply because it was the slowest frame rate they could get away with (to avoid terrible jerkiness) and also because when you move the frame rate up with film, you use a lot more film and it becomes very expensive. So there is nothing 'magic' about 24 fps - it exists for purely practical reasons and not because it was somehow 'the best' or 'perfect'. Nowadays we don't have the cost of film issue so it is easier to move forwards. 

 

Please bear in mind I am fanatical about 'filmic' and oftentimes I think good DVDs reproduced properly (Oppo 983H) look more filmic than Blurays which can have that overprocessed look - and especially when shot digitally. I personally love film grain, and 24 fps judder doesn't bother me at all. So I was very surprised that I came away from The Hobbit suitably impressed.  All I can say is if you get the chance to see the movie at an IMAX in 3D, go see for yourself.

 

Guys, sorry this is so OT. Is there a 48 fps thread we could move to if we want to continue the discussion?

 

From the link - I think this is just pure BS!

 

“It’s psychological: we need suspension of disbelief, and suspension of disbelief comes from the lower frame rate. The lower frame rate allows our brains to say, Okay — I’m not perceiving 40 conscious moments per second anymore; I’m only perceiving 24, or 30, and therefore this is not real and I can accept the artificial conventions of the acting and the lighting and the props. It’s an inherent part of the way our brain perceives things. Twenty-four or 30 frames per second is an inherent part of the cinematic experience. It’s the way we accept cinema. It’s the way we suspend our disbelief.”

 

Just because once-upon-a-time only 24 fps was possible doesn't give it magic properties. It doesn't matter what the frame rate is - if someone cannot suspend disbelief when watching a movie, they have serious issues IMO ;)  This would appear to be especially so when the movie is about, er, a Hobbit :)


Edited by kbarnes701 - 12/22/12 at 10:33am
post #58356 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReneV View Post

Make sure that your fix works across all seats

This turns out to be the key. One of the other positions has a hump at 55Hz, so audyssey just tried to get the best overall curve for all positions.

Oh well, I guess that's why someone invented room treatments smile.gif
post #58357 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by HT INMY BLOOD View Post

Thanks for taking the time to write and I laughed with your reference to twin girls. Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, Happy Hannakah or whatever you celebrate. My mother died in June, I had neck surgery in July and my father died in September so the holidays have been rough this year. Thanks to you and all who take the time to help people without any thought of payment upon services. God Bless, Joe

Last year 2011, my step father died in early October, my mother in late October and my wife in late November after a 8 year illness. Wife and I had 44 years together. Just before she passed, I told her that I was turning her very large master bedroom into my new HT room. She laughed and told me to "Go for it".
post #58358 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Jeff, did you try the 'alternative' reset?


RESET Onkyo to Factory


Completely clearing an Integra/Onkyo 2010 model the procedure is below.

This works on:
DTR-70.2
DTR-80.2
DHC-80.2
PR-SC5508


1) Set the Volume to Default Level: 30(absolute)/-52dB(relative)

2)Push and hold 'Memory' - then push 'Standby/On'
There will be some weird text on front panel display at this point. Press 'Return'.

3) It will show "All Clear??", then press 'Return' again.


OK, so I set up the consumer Audyssey mic and plugged it in. At that point I re-remembered I needed my display to see what was going on. Sub level check, but there was no sound from the sub. Unplugged the mic and replugged it. No sound. I did the VCR/DVR and Standby/On button clear and tried it again. This time the test signal was there, so I verified my sub levels and proceeded with the calibration. While that was happening I wondered if "Keith's Clear" followed by the "lesser" one that got the Audyssey setup going again might have restored the networking. After completing the consumer calibration and saving it, I checked the menu for the networking. IT WAS BACK! I manually set an IP address and then decided to check the firmware update. Evidently I was not up to date because it downloaded and applied one.

As I sit here typing this, my laptop is next to me - I'm in my office and not the theater - with Pro running and re-loading a calibration. (I will grab the screen caps I need to complete the Pro curve editing section of the Pro guide.) So, now I don't know what to do with ...

DAMN, while I was loading, the communications timed out and I can no longer connect to the 5508. I walked over and still had the network available in the menu ... WTF?

edit: My router still shows it as an attached device. Will try Pro again...

edit: Pro is reattached ... Apple Quicktime and iTunes wanted to update while I was running Pro l;ast time. Wonder if that interfered with communications?

edit: the connection must be flakey as the communications error window keeps popping up. I managed to get to the load permanently screen and am doing so now. We'll see. If it corrupts it, I can always redo the consumer calibration. But I now have no doubt it's going back for service.
Edited by pepar - 12/22/12 at 12:07pm
post #58359 of 70896
The Pro cal never loaded. The settings are from the consuner Audyssey cal. I am going to try to load Pro one more time. First I will turn on DHCP as I remember Luke saying that was what was recommended. Can't see how that would affect the communications, but at least I will be in full compliance.

Jeff

edit: success on loading a Pro cal. The settings are now from the Pro calibration ... except for the subs. They were from the consumer calibration. I adjusted them to what Pro had originally set them at when the Pro calibration was "fresh."
Edited by pepar - 12/22/12 at 12:34pm
post #58360 of 70896
1) I have been using this home made 2' x 4' frame for holding the Audyssey mic for my 1909 in the past. It is super quick and easy to just move the mic from location to location. Wondering if this frame might cause any reflections to affect the readings/settings. It is made out of 1/4" carbon fiber kite spars*. Would it make a notable difference to change to use the $20 mic stand located behind the couch?

2) I recently read that it is a no no to have the mic placed on the couch back. Is this still a no no to have just one (not main #1 LP), that is mounted to this frame via a dowel be 'over' the couch back? If so I could create four legs to move the whole assembly forward from the couch back.

*redface.gif) A kite flying/ building buddy made it for me


Edited by davekro - 12/22/12 at 1:27pm
post #58361 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by davekro View Post

I have been using this home made 2' x 4' frame for holding the Audyssey mic for my 1909 in the past. It is super quick and easy to just move the mic from location to location. Wondering if this frame might cause any reflections to affect the readings/settings. It is made out of 1/4" carbon fiber kite spars*. Would it make a notable difference to change to use the $20 mic stand located behind the couch?
*redface.gif) A kite flying/ building buddy made it for me

Quite innovative, the least to say. It will be good if it will stay in that place also after the Audyssey setup! smile.gif Does the frame cause reflections?...Umm,...unpredictable! rolleyes.gif Nonetheless, ...we already know that Hi-Fi systems sound the best when there is nobody in the room! tongue.gif
Edited by mogorf - 12/22/12 at 1:29pm
post #58362 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Hi Patrick - yes, this is why I mentioned it. It looked just fine on The Hobbit 3D. I was expecting it to look like 'video' but it didn't - no more so than any other movie shot digitally anyway. The higher fram rate just seemed to improve the numerous fast pans etc and also I am sure it is why I loved the 3D so much. I am not usually a fan of 3D. I only went to see the movie because I have a friend who is a friend of the cinema manager and we got in free, and also had chance to talk to the manager, which I found interesting as he was very knowledgeable and had been a former projectionist too. I particularly wanted to see a) the 48 fps and b) the impact it might or might not have on the 3D. On all counts I was impressed.

I think we have to remember why 24 fps has been used traditionally - simply because it was the slowest frame rate they could get away with (to avoid terrible jerkiness) and also because when you move the frame rate up with film, you use a lot more film and it becomes very expensive. So there is nothing 'magic' about 24 fps - it exists for purely practical reasons and not because it was somehow 'the best' or 'perfect'. Nowadays we don't have the cost of film issue so it is easier to move forwards. 

Please bear in mind I am fanatical about 'filmic' and oftentimes I think good DVDs reproduced properly (Oppo 983H) look more filmic than Blurays which can have that overprocessed look - and especially when shot digitally. I personally love film grain, and 24 fps judder doesn't bother me at all. So I was very surprised that I came away from The Hobbit suitably impressed.  All I can say is if you get the chance to see the movie at an IMAX in 3D, go see for yourself.

Guys, sorry this is so OT. Is there a 48 fps thread we could move to if we want to continue the discussion?

From the link - I think this is just pure BS!

“It’s psychological: we need suspension of disbelief, and suspension of disbelief comes from the lower frame rate. The lower frame rate allows our brains to say, Okay — I’m not perceiving 40 conscious moments per second anymore; I’m only perceiving 24, or 30, and therefore this is not real and I can accept the artificial conventions of the acting and the lighting and the props. It’s an inherent part of the way our brain perceives things. Twenty-four or 30 frames per second is an inherent part of the cinematic experience. It’s the way we accept cinema. It’s the way we suspend our disbelief.”


UMIK-1 arrived few days after I ordered it. I am impressed, usually half the (cheap) stuff I order from Hong Kong is lost or arrive in a month+
So I redid the measurements:
http://shrani.si/f/1h/T2/4wGjtiGv/umik1.jpg

I can see the raised highs by audyssey, which I am able to hear as well but I don't see the "muffled" mids which I appear to hear when the audyssey is on.
Other than the result being far from flat I can't see much from it. Suggestions on how to make it more flat are much appreciated even in the form of a link to a room treatment guide if nothing apparent can be seen from the measurement results.


Just because once-upon-a-time only 24 fps was possible doesn't give it magic properties. It doesn't matter what the frame rate is - if someone cannot suspend disbelief when watching a movie, they have serious issues IMO wink.gif  This would appear to be especially so when the movie is about, er, a Hobbit smile.gif
Went to the nearest IMAX to see the difference between the IMAX and 3D HFR version (unfortunately they don't offer IMAX HFR) and was much more impressed by the HFR than by IMAX. From what I read the Hobbit wasn't shot in IMAX but is upscaled to it; I could see some pixelation on the screen. Regarding the HFR, it's stunning once you get used to the "TV" look. It was actually the first 3D movie where I didn't have problems with "dropping out of 3D" during the faster sequences - I am blaming 48fps for that smile.gif

Back to topic: UMIK-1 arrived a couple of days after I ordered it. I am impressed, usually half the (cheaper) stuff I order from Hong Kong is lost or arrives after more than a month.
So I redid the measurements:
ch I can hear as well, but I don't see the "muffled" mids which I appear to hear by audyssey as well. Other than that it doesn't look flat :-/
Suggestions on making it more flat are appreciated smile.gif
Edited by strumf666 - 12/22/12 at 2:49pm
post #58363 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by davekro View Post

1) I have been using this home made 2' x 4' frame for holding the Audyssey mic for my 1909 in the past. It is super quick and easy to just move the mic from location to location. Wondering if this frame might cause any reflections to affect the readings/settings. It is made out of 1/4" carbon fiber kite spars*. Would it make a notable difference to change to use the $20 mic stand located behind the couch?
2) I recently read that it is a no no to have the mic placed on the couch back. Is this still a no no to have just one (not main #1 LP), that is mounted to this frame via a dowel be 'over' the couch back? If so I could create four legs to move the whole assembly forward from the couch back.
*redface.gif) A kite flying/ building buddy made it for me

 

That is indeed a creative solution.  I don't see any issues with reflections.  It is difficult to determine from the single picture, but you should make sure of the following basics:

 

- The mic is kept at the height of your ears as measured when you are sitting in the main listening position, and pointed at the ceiling.

- The first mic position is at the MLP.  Ideally, your MLP should be on a line that is half-way between the two front main speakers, and centered on the center channel speaker.

- You take the full 8 measurements.

 

Again, I can't tell from the picture, is the chair off to the left of center?  Are you not taking any measurements in the chair on the right (assuming there is one)?

post #58364 of 70896
1) My understanding is that you can stray from the ideal of MLP being dead center to screen and center channel if you are the only one that really cares about the best possible sound quality. My wife is the only other listener (95% of time), and does not care. And actually seated in my spot (MLP), my head is only about 6" left of center (I have always made my head MLP smile.gif.

2) My wife sits on the right side of this couch. My understanding is that you do not move the mic to actual listening positions (other than MLP). That all measurements are taken in 2' spacing left, right, 2' forward of MLP, then 2' left and right of the forward position (for the first 6 positions). I have not needed to use 8 positions yet (until my new Denon 2113 arrives 1/2/13 ;o). One diagram for 8 positions showed #7 & #8 being just about 6" L & R of MLP and maybe 12" back.



I am very open to suggestions as I am trying to learn. Are you saying you 'should' move the mic over 4' from MLP to get a reading from the actual secondary listening position? One alternative is to call MLP 18" to the right of dead video/audio center, to make it centered on the couch. THis would probably make my wife's seat sound a bit better and may diminish mine slightly??

(7.2 set up)
post #58365 of 70896

Well, there are no absolute rules with calibrations, only guidelines.  Ultimately, what soulds best to you is what matters.  I'm like you, I calibrate to optomize the seat where I sit, since I am usually the only person listening.  Having said that, I have gone to considerable effort to make sure my MLP is dead center with respect to the entire front of the home theater.  I originally had an off-center configuration like yours, but found imaging was significantly improved by making everything centered. 

 

You can certainly experiment without changing your seating position.  Try locating the first mic position in the center of the couch, even though you don't sit there.  If you don't like how it sounds, locate the first mic position exactly where you sit.  What sounds best is the right answer.

post #58366 of 70896
Can Audyssey fix this?

I'm considering buying and placing a KEF q200 center speaker (not ported, uses passive radiator) into the center speaker opening in the BDI signal A/V credenza. Whatever portions of the opening then not filled in by the speaker would be filled in by insulation packed around the sides and covered with speaker grill cloth.

If I placed the speaker inside the opening for aesthetic purposes, I'm aware that it would create a boundary effect that would distort the midrange.

My question then would be, can Audyssey overcome this problem? Could Audyssey then give a similar result to having the center speaker resting on top of the credenza?

Anyone ever tried to measure this?

Thanks
Dan signal_8329-1.jpg 46k .jpg file spec_q200c.jpg 13k .jpg file
post #58367 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

I originally had an off-center configuration like yours, but found imaging was significantly improved by making everything centered. 

You can certainly experiment without changing your seating position.  Try locating the first mic position in the center of the couch, even though you don't sit there.  If you don't like how it sounds, locate the first mic position exactly where you sit.  What sounds best is the right answer.

Thanks for your responses. Originally, how far off center was your MLP that let made a noteable difference to your sound perception? I don't know if my ears will be able to differentiate from my MLP being 6" to left of center vs dead center or not. I will do run (a) with MLP at my current seat (6" L of ctr). I will certainly take your suggestion to try a run (b) using the center of the couch (18" right of dead center) as the MLP for the 2nd Audyssey run. Then I will listen from my seat and wife's seat on right of couch to see if/how the sound differs to my ears. Any suggestions for type of movie to use for this test? I'm guessing Super LFE movies like U-571 might just be too overwhelming to detect nuances. Acoustic guitar concert vs. Queen/ ZZ Top? ;o) Maybe a movie with dialogue and music? I'll give this some thought.

Since my current Denon 1909 has a fried LFE channel and I don't know if any other internal were affected, I'll be waiting until I get my new Denon 2113 due here 1/2/13, to run Audyssey for this testing.
Thanks
post #58368 of 70896
Dave, 6" is not that far off center. My off-center configuration, IIRC, was around 3 feet. To test imaging, I use music. For example, a song with a single vocal should result in the vocal sounding like it is coming from dead center. Listen in stereo, and move your head from dead center left or right 6", listening to what it does to the sound stage. It should be quite obvious.
post #58369 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by dftkell View Post

Can Audyssey fix this?

Anyone ever tried to measure this?
Thanks

I placed my center channel on a shelf similar to what you show. I didn't like the quality of dialog and ended up purchasing a center channel stand placed in front of the TV stand. The dialog improvement was significant. While I am sure it improved things, Audyssey did not make the dialog perfect when the speaker was in the cabinet. Measurements can show you whether the speaker response is flat or not, but measurements don't reveal the types of problems that affect dialog intelligibility (e.g. male vocals sounding "tubby").

Your experience may be different. Since it sounds like esthetics are important to you, I would certainly try what you are suggesting. The speaker should be placed as far forward on the shelf as possible to minimize boundary effects. I wouldn't add the stuff around the speaker, or cover it with a speaker cloth. Just my opinion.
post #58370 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

I placed my center channel on a shelf similar to what you show. I didn't like the quality of dialog and ended up purchasing a center channel stand placed in front of the TV stand. The dialog improvement was significant. While I am sure it improved things, Audyssey did not make the dialog perfect when the speaker was in the cabinet. Measurements can show you whether the speaker response is flat or not, but measurements don't reveal the types of problems that affect dialog intelligibility (e.g. male vocals sounding "tubby").
Your experience may be different. Since it sounds like esthetics are important to you, I would certainly try what you are suggesting. The speaker should be placed as far forward on the shelf as possible to minimize boundary effects. I wouldn't add the stuff around the speaker, or cover it with a speaker cloth. Just my opinion.

Thanks. Aesthetics are important, but not if it's going to significantly hamper the dialogue and overall SQ. I was hoping Audyssey would be the miracle cure, but I had a feeling it wouldn't be able to completely overcome poor placement.

I'm going to search around for a different style credenza and place the center channel on top.

Thanks
Dan
post #58371 of 70896
^Standout Designs (forum sponsor) makes great cabs, all solid wood, at great prices. Mine is the Horizon N702 XL 72" in black stained oak.
IMG_0128.jpg 2279k .jpg file

I used their CC shelf for my players so I wouldn't have to open a glass door for shiny discs.
post #58372 of 70896
^ Nice cabinetry to complement those superb speakers, SoM! Heavyweight stuff!
post #58373 of 70896
Well, if you guys are going to talk about the subject of less than optimal (ok poor) dialogue projection, I will join in on my struggle between aesthetics and sound quality. My center usually lives on the shelf under the TV. I often need to increase volume to understand dialogue... constant PITA. I made a shelf years ago that lets me have the speaker on the same surface as the TV, in front of it. Since it doesn't 'look' as nice like this I have left it on the shelf below mostly. When 'up', the top of ctr speaker does cover about 1 1/2" of the screen. But since it is a 73" screen, functionally that does not matter.

Since I will be getting a new AVR in a week and I'll be all hyped on improved sound quality with Audyssey XT (over Multi EQ), I am thinking it is time to stop handcuffing my dialogue channel by keeping it in the shelf. So you (TOO) say it makes a significant difference having the center speaker out in front... I better try this and leave it that way for at least a week or more to see if we stop needing to mess with the volume with regard to dialogue.

Edit: Is it worth bothering to run Audyssey Multi EQ for this shift on my retiring 1909 because I will be installing a new AVR in a week?

My usual center speaker location (plus shelf I made for long ago for mounting higher*)





Second position mounted in front of TV on home made shelf*




* shelf cut at angle because seating used to be way off center.
Edited by davekro - 12/22/12 at 6:11pm
post #58374 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

^ Nice cabinetry to complement those superb speakers, SoM! Heavyweight stuff!

I concur. wink.gif
Very Nice SoM !!! drool.... smile.gif
Edited by davekro - 12/22/12 at 6:13pm
post #58375 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

Last year 2011, my step father died in early October, my mother in late October and my wife in late November after a 8 year illness. Wife and I had 44 years together. Just before she passed, I told her that I was turning her very large master bedroom into my new HT room. She laughed and told me to "Go for it".

Thank you for your post we know we are not alone but it's nice to hear from people who have lived through personal tragedy. I hope your HT room brings you enjoyment even when thinking about your wife. I hope you find some happy moments during the tough times of the Holidays. Joe
post #58376 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by davekro View Post

Well, if you guys are going to talk about the subject of less than optimal (ok poor) dialogue projection, I will join in on my struggle between aesthetics and sound quality. My center usually lives on the shelf under the TV. I often need to increase volume to understand dialogue... constant PITA. I made a shelf years ago that lets me have the speaker on the same surface as the TV, in front of it. Since it doesn't 'look' as nice like this I have left it on the shelf below mostly. When 'up', the top of ctr speaker does cover about 1 1/2" of the screen. But since it is a 73" screen, functionally that does not matter.
Since I will be getting a new AVR in a week and I'll be all hyped on improved sound quality with Audyssey XT (over Multi EQ), I am thinking it is time to stop handcuffing my dialogue channel by keeping it in the shelf. So you (TOO) say it makes a significant difference having the center speaker out in front... I better try this and leave it that way for at least a week or more to see if we stop needing to mess with the volume with regard to dialogue.
Edit: Is it worth bothering to run Audyssey Multi EQ for this shift on my retiring 1909 because I will be installing a new AVR in a week?
My usual center speaker location (plus shelf I made for long ago for mounting higher*)
 

 

FWIW, this is what I did (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=240-808):

 

700

post #58377 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by HT INMY BLOOD View Post

Thank you for your post we know we are not alone but it's nice to hear from people who have lived through personal tragedy. I hope your HT room brings you enjoyment even when thinking about your wife. I hope you find some happy moments during the tough times of the Holidays. Joe
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

Last year 2011, my step father died in early October, my mother in late October and my wife in late November after a 8 year illness. Wife and I had 44 years together. Just before she passed, I told her that I was turning her very large master bedroom into my new HT room. She laughed and told me to "Go for it".

HT aside, Joe and bsoko2 my thoughts and prayers are with you both. Particularly during this holiday season. May you find solace when you are able and that grace find you in the times you cannot. My brother's liver cancer will likely keep him from seeing Christmas. We live on, hopefully we love on.
Blessings, Dave
post #58378 of 70896
post #58379 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

FWIW, this is what I did (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=240-808):

Jerry, Thanks for the picture and reminder to get the center channel 'OUT'. The wife and I just watched a movie with the center out and up in front of the TV. She commented right away and I could hear the difference too. I guess I had stuck it back in it's hole because my mind didn't understand how it could make such a difference. Well my ears understand now. My mind.... well, of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.tongue.gif
post #58380 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSTide View Post

Ok I'll give this a shot.
Here is my PB13 ultra by itself. As you can see there is a horrific dip at 52 Hz:

And here is my PB12 plus, which has very different problems:

Now both together:

Better but still a healthy dip at 55 Hz. Here is an overlay of the curve with Audyssey on, which improves things a little:

Now we add one PEQ adjustment on the PB12. My PB13 has an older BASH amp and therefore can only deal with peaks. These three curves represent both subs with no correction, 1 PEQ without Audyssey, and 1 PEQ with Audyssey, each with an improved SPL at 55 Hz:

And finally, using both the PEQs on the PB12 with Audyssey on, we get this (overlayed on the single PEQ curve), which I'm pretty pleased with:

At this point, I leave the PEQs enabled on the PB12, and re-run Audyssey, and we get this. Note that the red curve is the new curve:

Bringing back the dip at 55 Hz, which I now have no way to correct!
So, I disabled the PEQ again and ran Audyssey once more, with a similar curve to the last, but now with the ability to use the PEQ if I want.
So my original two questions:
Why does Audyssey put back the dip? and
Should I correct it with the PEQ?

Basically you have a null in 50-60hz range that cannot be fixed with eq. Eq can only fix peaks.

Options: move sitting position, move subs, add another sub to cancel null. This is why most people recommend 2 subs minimum.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › "Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779)