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"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 1958

post #58711 of 70886
Not Jason, but REW outputs a mono signal. The splitter takes the mono feed and allows you to feed both the left and right AUX IN audio connectors on the front of the AVR so that you can measure Left + Right signals with the AVR set to stereo. With the AVR set to PLII Cinema, you can measure the center channel. And you can unplug one side of the Y-cable to measure the Left or Right channel independently.

Don't know how all this works with the HDMI cable yet...
post #58712 of 70886
Thanks Jerry, that makes sense. But then it doesn't sound like I will need the splitter right? A stereo mini-to-RCA cable, when fed a mono signal, should get the identical signal to both channels right? So I can just plug in the left one when I want to measure the left side, the right one when I want to measure the right side, or both (with PLII Cinema engaged) when I want to measure the CC, right?
post #58713 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Not Jason, but REW outputs a mono signal. The splitter takes the mono feed and allows you to feed both the left and right AUX IN audio connectors on the front of the AVR so that you can measure Left + Right signals with the AVR set to stereo. With the AVR set to PLII Cinema, you can measure the center channel. And you can unplug one side of the Y-cable to measure the Left or Right channel independently.
Don't know how all this works with the HDMI cable yet...

Well Jerry, ...with the HDMI cable hooked up from laptop to AVR/AVP and ASIO4ALL assigned to REW the whole concept becomes much more user friendly, i.e. you can select any speaker in a multi-channel setup individually, be it a front left, a center channel or a surround speaker, all up to 8 channels. I'm already there with my REW setup, I can send out a test signal from REW Generator to any speaker at will. Moreover, I can select "any speaker + sub" in the same above setting.
Edited by mogorf - 1/4/13 at 4:01pm
post #58714 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Well, ...with the HDMI cable hooked up from laptop to AVR/AVP and ASIO4ALL assigned to REW the whole concept becomes much more user friendly, i.e. you can select any speaker in a multi-channel setup individually, be it a front left, a center channel or a surround speaker, all up to 8 channels. I'm already there with my REW setup, I can send out a test signal from REW Generator to any speaker at will. Moreover, I can select "any speaker + sub" in the same above setting.

Feri - is that "any speaker" or "any combination of speakers"? That is, can you test L vs sub, R vs. Sub, Center vs. Sub, but also L/R/C vs. Sub?

I have powered mains (Mythos ST and center with a 'sub' section), so the interaction in the crossover regions are quite interesting from my POV.
post #58715 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Thanks Jerry, that makes sense. But then it doesn't sound like I will need the splitter right? A stereo mini-to-RCA cable, when fed a mono signal, should get the identical signal to both channels right? So I can just plug in the left one when I want to measure the left side, the right one when I want to measure the right side, or both (with PLII Cinema engaged) when I want to measure the CC, right?

Yes, if the output from your laptop is a stereo mini-plug, then that sounds right. Until I get the USB mic, I am still using an outboard USB sound card, which has left and right RCA outputs, in which case a RCA Y-connector is required.

@ Feri, yes, I am looking forward to the new way of connecting REW--that is what has us all excited.
post #58716 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Feri - is that "any speaker" or "any combination of speakers"? That is, can you test L vs sub, R vs. Sub, Center vs. Sub, but also L/R/C vs. Sub?

Stuart, it's too late in my neck of the woods to get down to sending out test signals without bothering other family members in their sleep, but I'll definitely get back to you tomorrow after looking into your query. Stay tuned, please. smile.gif

P.s.. Just to make it clear, you'd like to see that L/R/C vs. Sub is selectable in REW, or in other words, 4 speakers in total at the same time.
post #58717 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

@ Feri, yes, I am looking forward to the new way of connecting REW--that is what has us all excited.

You bet, it's gonna be exciting! cool.gif
post #58718 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Stuart, it's too late in my neck of the woods to get down to sending out test signals without bothering other family members in their sleep, but I'll definitely get back to you tomorrow after looking into your query. Stay tuned, please. smile.gif
P.s.. Just to make it clear, you'd like to see that L/R/C vs. Sub is selectable in REW, or in other words, 4 speakers in total at the same time.

Exactly, Feri! But you mean that you're not living the wild European nightlife smile.gif?

More seriously, thanks for indulging my scientific curiousity. It matters for me as I listen to a lot of MC music, and it's something I try to test with OmniMic through its curve averaging, and some tricks with the Mono modes and processing to a secondary extent. Being able to do this more flexibly with REW is a big plus.
post #58719 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

^^^
Agreed. It will be an REW thread, not an Audyssey/REW thread. Though the context of at least the first bunch of members there will be measuring their systems in conjunction with Audyssey, putting it in the title would likely exclude a lot of members interested in REW.

I think it is not REW thread specifically, it is for using REW to learn the automatic room correction and calibration systems (not only Audyssey) and improving the results of calibration (or identifying problems) with help of additional measurement tools. And actually other tools than REW could be used for that purpose, we should not exclude them also...
Separate forums just for REW are already existing, no need to duplicate them.
post #58720 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Stuart, it's too late in my neck of the woods to get down to sending out test signals without bothering other family members in their sleep, but I'll definitely get back to you tomorrow after looking into your query. Stay tuned, please. smile.gif
P.s.. Just to make it clear, you'd like to see that L/R/C vs. Sub is selectable in REW, or in other words, 4 speakers in total at the same time.

Yes, in many cases it is desirable to measure Left + Right + Subs to see what the combined response curve looks like. Adding Center as well would be icing on the cake, because that is not possible with the current way of connecting. I would be surprised if the HDMI connection didn't allow this.
post #58721 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Yes, in many cases it is desirable to measure Left + Right + Subs to see what the combined response curve looks like. Adding Center as well would be icing on the cake, because that is not possible with the current way of connecting. I would be surprised if the HDMI connection didn't allow this.

Me too, but as you just said on another forum, "trust but verify". It's one less barrier to usage for those of us switching from OmniMic as well.
post #58722 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Exactly, Feri! But you mean that you're not living the wild European nightlife smile.gif?

EU nightlife is being substituted by my university aged sonny boy, while my night life is spent here on AVS, as you may have noticed already! cool.gifwink.giftongue.gif
post #58723 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

EU nightlife is being substituted by my university aged sonny boy, while my night life is spent here on AVS, as you may have noticed already! cool.gifwink.giftongue.gif

Just like Keith, apparently...wink.gif
post #58724 of 70886
Hi. I had an Onkyo 818 and so it had XT32. I run this with L+R+Sub (LR is Klipsch xf48 and sub is JTR OS).
The green curve is without Audyssey, and purple one is with it.
Obviously, the bass is much smoother, and in general ripple is less and more clean. However, I can't understand that from around 1KHz to 4KHz, there is a dip and seems like Audyssey does not want to "fix" it. Is this common? (Would this be more a room effect or my speaker limitation?)

Thanks a lot in advance. I do like the Audyssey as I do think I hear more delicate sounds and details compared to before.

post #58725 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post

I think it is not REW thread specifically, it is for using REW to learn the automatic room correction and calibration systems (not only Audyssey) and improving the results of calibration (or identifying problems) with help of additional measurement tools. And actually other tools than REW could be used for that purpose, we should not exclude them also...
Separate forums just for REW are already existing, no need to duplicate them.

Nope, the new thread is supposed to address the so-called "simplified" use of REW. if you have followed up the posts here you will know what that means.
post #58726 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

Hi. I had an Onkyo 818 and so it had XT32. I run this with L+R+Sub (LR is Klipsch xf48 and sub is JTR OS).
The green curve is without Audyssey, and purple one is with it.
Obviously, the bass is much smoother, and in general ripple is less and more clean. However, I can't understand that from around 1KHz to 4KHz, there is a dip and seems like Audyssey does not want to "fix" it. Is this common? (Would this be more a room effect or my speaker limitation?)
Thanks a lot in advance. I do like the Audyssey as I do think I hear more delicate sounds and details compared to before.
 

 

Audyssey applies a gentle dip in the 1Khz-3Khz range.  It is called the "Mid-range compensation", which Audyssey describes as improving the transition from the mid-range to the tweeter frequencies.  Users of the Audyssey Pro Kit can toggle the MRC on and off, but as reported on the Pro thread, many prefer to keep in On.  In other words, the dip is completely normal.  You can see it in my response curve as well:

 

700

post #58727 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

Hi. I had an Onkyo 818 and so it had XT32. I run this with L+R+Sub (LR is Klipsch xf48 and sub is JTR OS).
The green curve is without Audyssey, and purple one is with it.
Obviously, the bass is much smoother, and in general ripple is less and more clean. However, I can't understand that from around 1KHz to 4KHz, there is a dip and seems like Audyssey does not want to "fix" it. Is this common? (Would this be more a room effect or my speaker limitation?)
Thanks a lot in advance. I do like the Audyssey as I do think I hear more delicate sounds and details compared to before.

Check that you have no any additional processing in the audio drivers, both for outputs and inputs (it is quite common). And ensure that you have DynamicEQ switched off when measuring.
post #58728 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Audyssey applies a gentle dip in the 1Khz-3Khz range.  It is called the "Mid-range compensation", which Audyssey describes as improving the transition from the mid-range to the tweeter frequencies.  Users of the Audyssey Pro Kit can toggle the MRC on and off, but as reported on the Pro thread, many prefer to keep in On.  In other words, the dip is completely normal.  You can see it in my response curve as well:

700

Cool! Thanks. I do like the sound, so it is nice to know this is done on purpose.
post #58729 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

Hi. I had an Onkyo 818 and so it had XT32. I run this with L+R+Sub (LR is Klipsch xf48 and sub is JTR OS).
The green curve is without Audyssey, and purple one is with it.
Obviously, the bass is much smoother, and in general ripple is less and more clean. However, I can't understand that from around 1KHz to 4KHz, there is a dip and seems like Audyssey does not want to "fix" it. Is this common? (Would this be more a room effect or my speaker limitation?)
Thanks a lot in advance. I do like the Audyssey as I do think I hear more delicate sounds and details compared to before.

Hi fght4yu,

Care to share a bit more narratives on your measuring technique?

- How did you derive these graphs?
- How many positions did you measure?
- Did you do an averaging of multiple measurements in REW?
- Was the mic facing the ceiling or facing the speakers or else?
- What mic do you have?
- Do you have a calibration file for the mic?
- How are your speakers setup in your room? (Pictures are welcome!)
- Etc.
post #58730 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Hi fght4yu,
Care to share a bit more narratives on your measuring technique?
- How did you derive these graphs?
- How many positions did you measure?
- Did you do an averaging of multiple measurements in REW?
- Was the mic facing the ceiling or facing the speakers or else?
- What mic do you have?
- Do you have a calibration file for the mic?
- How are your speakers setup in your room? (Pictures are welcome!)
- Etc.

Sure!
- Got these from REW 5.0, with a Radio Shack meter and USB uca202 sound card. I use the stereo input on my receiver. Measured with Audyssey ON and OFF.
- The graph is taken in just 1 position.. the main LP. When i run Audyssey , I use 4. I did try 8, but it does not change much.
- On REW, I did set it up so it did run 2 times and do averaging.
- The RS meter is facing the speakers (screens).
- RS meter, with the correction factor/calibration file applied from the REW thread. And also did the loopback to calculate response of the sound card as well.
- Hitachi 55" Plasma Klipsch RC62 center Klipsch XF-48 LR 2x SVS PC12-Plus Pioneer VSX-21THX DISH VIP722 Slim PS3. Speakers are about 8 ft apart. Forget about the SVS subwoofer. This is an old pic and I replaced those with an JTR OS which is now located at the back of the couch.

Thanks!
post #58731 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

- On REW, I did set it up so it did run 2 times and do averaging.

And, I forgot to mention also this... Set it to sweep just one time, REW have a bug with averaging multiple sweeps.
Also, it is better to measure left and right channels separately to avoid interference, this also will improve measurement results.
post #58732 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post

And, I forgot to mention also this... Set it to sweep just one time, REW have a bug with averaging multiple sweeps.
Also, it is better to measure left and right channels separately to avoid interference, this also will improve measurement results.

Oh.. thanks. will change to 1 sweep then.
On seperating LR.. i do have some reservation. To me, I want to know what the final sound will be.. so if there is interference, I will like to know that too, as this is likely what I will be hearing at my LP...
post #58733 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

Sure!
- Got these from REW 5.0, with a Radio Shack meter and USB uca202 sound card. I use the stereo input on my receiver. Measured with Audyssey ON and OFF.
- The graph is taken in just 1 position.. the main LP. When i run Audyssey , I use 4. I did try 8, but it does not change much.
- On REW, I did set it up so it did run 2 times and do averaging.
- The RS meter is facing the speakers (screens).
- RS meter, with the correction factor/calibration file applied from the REW thread. And also did the loopback to calculate response of the sound card as well.
- Hitachi 55" Plasma Klipsch RC62 center Klipsch XF-48 LR 2x SVS PC12-Plus Pioneer VSX-21THX DISH VIP722 Slim PS3. Speakers are about 8 ft apart. Forget about the SVS subwoofer. This is an old pic and I replaced those with an JTR OS which is now located at the back of the couch.
Thanks!

Couple of comments:

- The RS SPL. Isn't very good at measuring the upper frequency range. It's reasonably accurate for the lower frequencies as long as you have the calibration file for the SPL loaded.

- The SPL should be pointed towards the ceiling, at the MLP, with the mic tip at ear level.
post #58734 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

so if there is interference, I will like to know that too, as this is likely what I will be hearing at my LP...

The interference will change the every few inches, especially on high frequencies, it will make your graphs awful with heavy comb-filtering effects that you actually will not hear because you are listening from two points in space at the same time, and not exactly the one where the mic is placed. Measure them separately first, and only then, if you have some doubts about interference after that you can do it together. They will rarely play something together anyway except the plain stereo mode and direct / pure audio modes for plain stereo input signals, newer in multi-channel mode.
post #58735 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Audyssey applies a gentle dip in the 1Khz-3Khz range.  It is called the "Mid-range compensation", which Audyssey describes as improving the transition from the mid-range to the tweeter frequencies.  Users of the Audyssey Pro Kit can toggle the MRC on and off, but as reported on the Pro thread, many prefer to keep in On.  In other words, the dip is completely normal.  You can see it in my response curve as well:

700

I'm jealous of such a flat frequency response? How is this achieved...room treatments??
post #58736 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSTide View Post

I'm jealous of such a flat frequency response? How is this achieved...room treatments??

I have spent the last several years experimenting with placement and treatments, using REW measurements and following advice from the experts on this and other AVS forums. This is a wonderful hobby, always full of opportunities for improvement!
post #58737 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Couple of comments:
- The RS SPL. Isn't very good at measuring the upper frequency range. It's reasonably accurate for the lower frequencies as long as you have the calibration file for the SPL loaded.
- The SPL should be pointed towards the ceiling, at the MLP, with the mic tip at ear level.

Noted.. Thanks. Will do 1 sweep and point it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post

The interference will change the every few inches, especially on high frequencies, it will make your graphs awful with heavy comb-filtering effects that you actually will not hear because you are listening from two points in space at the same time, and not exactly the one where the mic is placed. Measure them separately first, and only then, if you have some doubts about interference after that you can do it together. They will rarely play something together anyway except the plain stereo mode and direct / pure audio modes for plain stereo input signals, newer in multi-channel mode.

Ic. Thanks for the knowledge. I will unplug one speaker then.
post #58738 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post

I think it is not REW thread specifically, it is for using REW to learn the automatic room correction and calibration systems (not only Audyssey) and improving the results of calibration (or identifying problems) with help of additional measurement tools. And actually other tools than REW could be used for that purpose, we should not exclude them also...
Separate forums just for REW are already existing, no need to duplicate them.

That might be your sole motivation, but I doubt that everyone else has the same thought. How measurements we take can be used to verify, improve and/or troubleshoot "automatic room correction" (in quotes because if it were automatic, then we wouldn't feel the need to measure with REW), but I think having a thread subject as you suggest will narrow the scope too much. I am very happy with Audyssey, it is my room's acoustical treatments that I want to better understand.

But I'd be happy to use the thread "REW Measurements for Room Correction Systems (YPAO, ARC, Audyssey etc)". We should approach the Thread Starter there before showing up en masses and seeming to take over. smile.gif Steve is a good guy, and I'd bet that he would welcome our participation, and even the idea of an FAQ.

Or we could start another thread "Using USB mics and HDMI output with Room EQ Wizard"

Jeff
Edited by pepar - 1/5/13 at 8:36am
post #58739 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Or we could start another thread "Using USB mics and HDMI output with Room EQ Wizard"
That's a good idea, since there has there has been everything from forum posts to YouTube tutorials on using analogue mics (+soundcard) and analogue connectons to the receiver with Room EQ Wizard. Using USB mics and HDMI outputs with REW is relatively new, so it would be helpful to start a thread on the subject, even if it may appear to be a narrow topic at first.

And it does appear simple at first: mic into laptop, HDMI out to receiver, what could go wrong? ...What do you mean ASIO drivers? What's ASIO? If the thread also ends up also being a refresher course on 'best practices' when measuring, then that would be fine as well; can't have enough reminders on good measuring technique.
post #58740 of 70886
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Or we could start another thread "Using USB mics and HDMI output with Room EQ Wizard"
That's a good idea, since there has there has been everything from forum posts to YouTube tutorials on using analogue mics (+soundcard) and analogue connectons to the receiver with Room EQ Wizard. Using USB mics and HDMI outputs with REW is relatively new, so it would be helpful to start a thread on the subject, even if it may appear to be a narrow topic at first.

And it does appear simple at first: mic into laptop, HDMI out to receiver, what could go wrong? ...What do you mean ASIO drivers? What's ASIO? If the thread also ends up also being a refresher course on 'best practices' when measuring, then that would be fine as well; can't have enough reminders on good measuring technique.

 

+1.

 

Whatever it's called, I hope it soon gets started!

 

Sections on measuring technique and graph interpretation would be very helpful.

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