or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › "Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 1969

post #59041 of 70884
Hi all,

I have a question regarding my AV8801. Forgive me if this has been covered in this long discussion. When I did my Audyssey XT32 calibration, it set my front speakers and center speaker to large at "full band" and my surrounds to small with a crossover of 40Hz. Based on the discussion here, I went into the manual speaker setup of my 8801 and set all the speakers to small with a crossover of 60Hz (instead of the recommended 80Hz). I liked the result but my question is, when I want to get information on how my speakers are setup, if I look at the Audyssey setup it shows the previous settings and when I look at the manual setup for the speakers it shows my corrected settings. My question is, which is the 8801 actually using?? And if I understand the points of this discussion here, by my changing the speakers from large to small and changing the crossover from 40 to 60Hz, it does not effect the other Audyssey settings for room equilization etc.

Thank you for any information. I appreciate the knowlegable people on this forum
Don
post #59042 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Accuphase View Post

That's exactly what I'm referring to - on the DTS mix, the deeper drum sound is very clear and unmistakable. The stereo CD version, it's almost inaudible on my current configuration - if you didn't know it was there you might miss it. I've heard the deep bass on a different set of speakers (Klipsch bookshelves placed within an alcove above a fireplace) so I'm trying to adjust my settings and placement so I can get this difficult sound to come forward.

I understand there may be trade-offs, putting my SM65's closer to the front wall to boost the lower-mid bass energy while sacrificing soundstage and perhaps muddying another range of frequencies in the process. But it's the little things, like this, that drive people crazy but there are those of us who just love to tweak and tweak.

BE aware that if the two mixes sound different on your equipment as currently configured (absent not havein the sub enabled for 2 channel music) it's going to be because they are two different mixes. One brought up that drum sound more than the ohther. Either a mixer or masterer had a different vision of how it should sound. If you adjust your stereo setup so that you somehow get say a 10 dB hump at 60 Hz, it'll bring out that one sound in two channel, and foul up almost everything else . . .
post #59043 of 70884
^Yes, good points from Accuphase and JHaz. My comments were based on the new SACD mix and that's why I asked for clarification as to what sounds were under discussion. Regardless, there's no way I would tune my system to that specific sound.
post #59044 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarpi View Post

...When I did my Audyssey XT32 calibration, it set my front speakers and center speaker to large at "full band" and my surrounds to small with a crossover of 40Hz. Based on the discussion here, I went into the manual speaker setup of my 8801 and set all the speakers to small with a crossover of 60Hz (instead of the recommended 80Hz). I liked the result but my question is, when I want to get information on how my speakers are setup, if I look at the Audyssey setup it shows the previous settings and when I look at the manual setup for the speakers it shows my corrected settings. My question is, which is the 8801 actually using?? And if I understand the points of this discussion here, by my changing the speakers from large to small and changing the crossover from 40 to 60Hz, it does not effect the other Audyssey settings for room equilization etc...Don
Hi Don, welcome. Your readings were pertinent and your understanding is correct, the Audyssey filters are unaffected by changiing Large to small and/or raising the xover. The settings under Audyssey show Audyssey's Autosetup settings. They are in memory, are not altered by manual changes and can be restored at any time. Under manual setup, it immediately reflects any changes you've made and retains them until you change them or restore the original settings.
post #59045 of 70884
Thanks Soundofmind. One other question, when I play music (CDs or vinyl), I use the two channel "pure direct" mode. When I use this mode, am I correct in assuming that the 8801 bypasses all processing, tone controls, and Audyssey setup and just sends the unadulterated full bandwidth to the left and right speakers?

Thanks again!
post #59046 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

^Yes, good points from Accuphase and JHaz. My comments were based on the new SACD mix and that's why I asked for clarification as to what sounds were under discussion. Regardless, there's no way I would tune my system to that specific sound.

I agree that trying to tune the system for that particular sound is counter-intuitive to a balanced system. But it's a hobby and I like to tool around with the settings to see if I can coax this difficult passage through my 65's. I've yet to get into REW but being that this particular system is in the livingroom, I can't really get away with sound treatments and total rearrangement of the furniture.


By the way, we're on page 1969.
post #59047 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarpi View Post

Thanks Soundofmind. One other question, when I play music (CDs or vinyl), I use the two channel "pure direct" mode. When I use this mode, am I correct in assuming that the 8801 bypasses all processing, tone controls, and Audyssey setup and just sends the unadulterated full bandwidth to the left and right speakers?

Thanks again!

You are correct.

Note that if Audyssey is doing good things for movie audio, it does the same good things for two-channel music, too. Bits is bits and Audyssey can't tell the difference.

If it's not good for music, then it isn't doing good things for movie audio, either.
post #59048 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarpi View Post

Thanks Soundofmind. One other question, when I play music (CDs or vinyl), I use the two channel "pure direct" mode. When I use this mode, am I correct in assuming that the 8801 bypasses all processing, tone controls, and Audyssey setup and just sends the unadulterated full bandwidth to the left and right speakers?

Thanks again!

Ouch! No room correction, no sub. Have you done an A/B comparison, and you like it better this way?
post #59049 of 70884
I'm still learning my way around this processor. My last processor was a B&K Reference 30 and for stereo listening I used the "direct" mode. It did not have any Audyssey processing. The direct mode bypassed all tone controls on the ref 30 for "better sound". But the 8801 is a new complex beast that I am just learning to get used to. Forgive me but if I wanted to compare the "pure direct" mode on the 8801 to two channel stereo using the Audyssey calibration, how do I do that? Is it just a matter of using the music mode button to select "stereo" and then the Audyssey calibration is used for two channel? Thank you, AustinJerry.
Edited by scarpi - 1/15/13 at 3:17pm
post #59050 of 70884
If you want to the most direct A/B comparison of Audyssey correction on vs. off you should configure the STEREO listening mode with all other "enhancements" (like Dynamic EQ/Volume, compressed music restorer, etc.) turned off. The only thing that should be on is MultEQ XT32 set to the "Audyssey" reference target curve (or the "Flat" curve if you prefer more high freq detail). If you also want to eliminate the variable of 2.0 vs. 2.1 (subwoofer) then you should make sure front speakers are set to "large" with any double bass turned off.

Theoretically, you will get to a point where the STEREO mode plays a full bandwidth signal to FR/FL channels, with no additional processing or bass management beyond the XT32 room EQ filters.

Then, by pressing the PURE button on the remote it will engage "Direct" mode. If you have saved STEREO mode to one of the other buttons (e.g. MUSIC or GAME) then you can quickly toggle between Direct and Stereo modes, and the only variable should theoretically be XT32 room correction on vs. off.

Then you can add other layers for comparison, e.g. engaging bass management (2.1 vs. full range direct), adding Dynamic EQ, etc. This is one of the nicest uses of the "Direct" mode, it allows easy one-touch access to hear what you would be missing if you weren't using all this fancy new digital processing wink.gif
post #59051 of 70884
Thanks for the info. I'm an old guy who is afraid if I push the wrong button I might blow the whole thing up!!
post #59052 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarpi View Post

Thanks for the info. I'm an old guy who is afraid if I push the wrong button I might blow the whole thing up!!

It will only take out that side of the house.
post #59053 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post




It's been a long time since I played drums - I just played that track on my Mac (it does have reasonably good speakers attached) and they sound like toms to me. Congas are usually struck with the fingers or palms of the hand, not with sticks. I'd have to play it on the main system to be 100% sure what I'm hearing though. Incidentally, congas aren't going to be much use for evaluating proper bass - they are pitched way too high - I'd guess they don't get below 120Hz or so. Not that the OP said he was using the congas/toms for bass evaluation - we got sidetracked into a bass discussion I think. Floor toms will go much lower (about 60Hz) though. Mounted toms will depend on the tuning - say 80Hz and up. I'm guessing these frequencies BTW.
 

I have the DTS 5.1 version of Hell Freezes Over. At about 32 seconds, the first drums start, and about 10 seconds later, a deeper drum sound is heard. According to my nifty AudioTools software on my iPad, the RTA says the deeper sound is ~60Hz. No muddiness here, although I wish I had the SACD to compare. Love the Eagles.

Then it's toms. Congas no way even approach 60Hz.

post #59054 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Accuphase View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Sorry, but that's kinda funny. I pulled out my newly acquired and highly recommendedHotel California MC SACD around $30, a great value). On my disc I don't hear congas but I hear two solid deep beats (on the count "four and" ). That sounds to me like drum kit tom-toms, just before the lead vocal starts, at about 1min. Is that what you're referring to?

I'm no expert on congas vs toms vs bongos, but from what is shown on the Hell Freezes Over DVD, it looks like "drummer" is standing up playing what looks like congas with his hands. There's no drum stick or a drummer sitting at a drum kit for the percussion during Hotel California.

 

Well, both can't be right. Congas don't play as low as 60Hz, for sure. Toms do. But if nobody is hitting anything with a stick, then it ain't toms! Maybe they aren't congas either - there are drums that look like congas but are bigger - congas are about 12ins diameter. Can't remember the name of the bigger sort. Even then though I doubt they would reach 60Hz, even played hard with an open palm (the usual way to make them sound deeper in tone).

post #59055 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Assuming you ran the Audyssey calibration, I would trust the speaker trim levels that were set by Audyssey and not change anything by measuring with an SPL.  The SPL will not be as accurate.  I would also raise the crossover to 80Hz.  Your sub was designed to handle the low frequencies--let it do its job.  Then I would sit back and enjoy the system for a while!

I have a fully treated room with a Integra DHC 80.3 and XT32 always sets my trim levels too low. Sometimes in the center channel I can hardly hear the speech. I reset all with a DB meter, then everything comes in as it should.

 

That would suggest something is wrong. Audyssey doesn't usually get level trims wrong.

post #59056 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarpi View Post

Hi all,

I have a question regarding my AV8801. Forgive me if this has been covered in this long discussion. When I did my Audyssey XT32 calibration, it set my front speakers and center speaker to large at "full band" and my surrounds to small with a crossover of 40Hz. Based on the discussion here, I went into the manual speaker setup of my 8801 and set all the speakers to small with a crossover of 60Hz (instead of the recommended 80Hz). I liked the result but my question is, when I want to get information on how my speakers are setup, if I look at the Audyssey setup it shows the previous settings and when I look at the manual setup for the speakers it shows my corrected settings. My question is, which is the 8801 actually using?? And if I understand the points of this discussion here, by my changing the speakers from large to small and changing the crossover from 40 to 60Hz, it does not effect the other Audyssey settings for room equilization etc.

Thank you for any information. I appreciate the knowlegable people on this forum
Don

 

Don - I can't answer your unit-specific questions, but changing the XOs does not adversely affect the calibration in any way.

 

c)4.   Is it OK to change the Crossovers from Audyssey's recommendation?

post #59057 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

^Yes, good points from Accuphase and JHaz. My comments were based on the new SACD mix and that's why I asked for clarification as to what sounds were under discussion. Regardless, there's no way I would tune my system to that specific sound.

Or indeed to *any* specific sound.

post #59058 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Accuphase View Post

I'm no expert on congas vs toms vs bongos, but from what is shown on the Hell Freezes Over DVD, it looks like "drummer" is standing up playing what looks like congas with his hands. There's no drum stick or a drummer sitting at a drum kit for the percussion during Hotel California.
Well, Hotel Cal is one of the all-time great rock songs in my book. Thanks for bringing it up, as it got me spinning that disc. And I was very glad to see it released on SACD, as the OOP HiRes versions were quite pricey. The mix and SQ on this disc are very good. As to drums used on the track, Don Henley was certainly known for using congas at times and the album credits in my insert list "percussion" next to his name on that song. Interestingly, he is not listed for drums or percussion on any other cut.

Despite lack of any visible presence on the DVD, on my disc there is clearly a drum kit on the track-snare, toms, kick drum, cymbals, not to say there isn't some congas or even tambales. They took six months to record this album, so there was plenty of time for overdubs. smile.gif
post #59059 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Well, Hotel Cal is one of the all-time great rock songs in my book. Thanks for bringing it up, as it got me spinning that disc. And I was very glad to see it released on SACD, as the OOP HiRes versions were quite pricey. The mix and SQ on this disc are very good. As to drums used on the track, Don Henley was certainly known for using congas at times and the album credits in my insert list "percussion" next to his name on that song. Interestingly, he is not listed for drums or percussion on any other cut.

Despite lack of any visible presence on the DVD, on my disc there is clearly a drum kit on the track-snare, toms, kick drum, cymbals, not to say there isn't some congas or even tambales. They took six months to record this album, so there was plenty of time for overdubs. smile.gif

I'm just happy that there is great public interest in fine music appreciation. Why else would such things as Audyssey have been developed otherwise? Sound is both objective and subjective as it carries both a quantitative value (Hz, db, etc) and a qualitative value ("The upper frequencies have a very lively sound"). So I'm glad that we have tools like Audyssey in our AVRs to help tweak and fiddle with the music and sound (HT) of our speakers to tailor it to our liking. Even if it's driving me crazy that I can't get that damn tom/congas/whatever sound to come through clearly in my livingroom.
post #59060 of 70884
^+1
post #59061 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Accuphase 
By the way, we're on page 1969.

Another page to go & it'll reach 1970. That's the year I was born. :-D
post #59062 of 70884
We're long past the page I was born on. That's why all this stuff is so confusing to me even after reading over the pertinent parts of the owners manual. But I'll get my 8801 set up right with the help of this forum. I'm just an old audiophile that comes from the days of a turntable, receiver, and two speakers! Thanks all biggrin.gif
Edited by scarpi - 1/16/13 at 6:46am
post #59063 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarpi View Post

We're long past the page I was born on. That's why all this stuff is so confusing to me even after reading over the pertinent parts of the owners manual. But I'll get my 8801 set up right with the help of this forum. I'm just and old audiophile that comes from the days of a turntable, receiver, and two speakers! Thanks all biggrin.gif

 

I still have a an amp and two speakers (in another room) and use them to listen to music on. Like a fool though, I sold my Linn Sondek LP12 and my vinyl collection some years back. A big regret of mine with the benefit of hindsight. No matter what anyone's background, the great thing about the best threads on AVS is that someone will always know how to help you out and get you up and running. Stick with it, Scarpi....

post #59064 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarpi View Post

We're long past the page I was born on. That's why all this stuff is so confusing to me even after reading over the pertinent parts of the owners manual. But I'll get my 8801 set up right with the help of this forum. I'm just and old audiophile that comes from the days of a turntable, receiver, and two speakers! Thanks all biggrin.gif

Even back in the day (mid-70s) I used a Hafler circuit to extract ambience for a rear speaker. I did use an AR turntable, a reel to reel and Dynaco stereo components though.
post #59065 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarpi View Post

We're long past the page I was born on. biggrin.gif

You are not alone !! LONG PAST in my case!!
post #59066 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post


Even back in the day (mid-70s) I used a Hafler circuit to extract ambience for a rear speaker. I did use an AR turntable, a reel to reel and Dynaco stereo components though.

 

Wow! I had totally forgotten about that - I did that too. The rear speaker was connected to the positive terminals of the front speakers wasn't it? That is rear pos to left speaker pos, rear neg to right speaker pos - I can’t really remember. It seemed to work too! 

post #59067 of 70884
Want to recalibrate my AVR but have a few questions -

1) BA vr10 Center channel speaker sits below the Display a bit on the highest shelf, should I angle this to point somewhat upwards since the vr950 towers next to it are much higher? How far should it be pointed?

2) Center and L/R speakers/avr/display sit in a corner angled towards the rest of the room, the center most listening position is about where an end table with a lamp sits. My question with the room setup in place and set, do I place the MIC when calibrating at this position or do I move it to where I actually sit most which is a chair to the right of this, or to the couch on the left where others sit?
post #59068 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Briant73 View Post

Want to recalibrate my AVR but have a few questions -

1) BA vr10 Center channel speaker sits below the Display a bit on the highest shelf, should I angle this to point somewhat upwards since the vr950 towers next to it are much higher? How far should it be pointed?

2) Center and L/R speakers/avr/display sit in a corner angled towards the rest of the room, the center most listening position is about where an end table with a lamp sits. My question with the room setup in place and set, do I place the MIC when calibrating at this position or do I move it to where I actually sit most which is a chair to the right of this, or to the couch on the left where others sit?

The centre speaker should be positioned so that it's leading edge is clear of any shelf or cabinet it sits on and angled so that the tweeter points to where your ears are when you are sitting in the MLP.

 

The mic should be positioned for the first measurement where you normally sit, at ear height.

 

d)3.   Where should I position the mic for best results?

 

All of this, and much more, is in the FAQ and 101. I suggest you read through both, especially the 101, before running the new calibration. Link is in my sig.

post #59069 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

The centre speaker should be positioned so that it's leading edge is clear of any shelf or cabinet it sits on and angled so that the tweeter points to where your ears are when you are sitting in the MLP.

The mic should be positioned for the first measurement where you normally sit, at ear height.

d)3.   Where should I position the mic for best results?


All of this, and much more, is in the FAQ and 101. I suggest you read through both, especially the 101, before running the new calibration. Link is in my sig.

What happens when the tweeter is above your ear in ceiling?
post #59070 of 70884
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

The centre speaker should be positioned so that it's leading edge is clear of any shelf or cabinet it sits on and angled so that the tweeter points to where your ears are when you are sitting in the MLP.

The mic should be positioned for the first measurement where you normally sit, at ear height.

d)3.   Where should I position the mic for best results?


All of this, and much more, is in the FAQ and 101. I suggest you read through both, especially the 101, before running the new calibration. Link is in my sig.

Thanks I have read both and plan to have them ready when I do recalibrate.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Receivers, Amps, and Processors
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › "Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779)