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"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 1984

post #59491 of 70896
Is that a serious question? Measuring levels, delay and bass response (so the receiver can pick a crossover) is like the least of what it does, any auto setup program can do that. What makes Audyssey MultEQ special is the room correction filters, go through this "product tour" slideshow if you want to get the gist: http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/multeq/tour
post #59492 of 70896
Quote:
Is that a serious question? Measuring levels, delay and bass response (so the receiver can pick a crossover) is like the least of what it does, any auto setup program can do that. What makes Audyssey MultEQ special is the room correction filters, go through this "product tour" slideshow if you want to get the gist: http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/multeq/tour

Well bat pig I am simply trying to learn. I figured such a question would elicit such a response...
post #59493 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggsantafe View Post

quote name="SeaNile" url="/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/59460#post_22882602"]Quick question about running Audyssey. Do I level adjust the volume first within the speaker adjustments and then run Audyssey? Or do I let Audyssey run and then adjust the speakers? I've noticed when I run Audyssey it sets my LCR speakers to -12 all the time. Heading out now to get a boom mic stand and a SPL meter.[

A -12 L/C/R setting typically results from having your subwoofer gain set too high. Try Decreasing the gain on your subwoofer , and rerun Audyssey - that should result in lower speaker trims and allow Audyssey to properly equalize your speakers . No need to adjust your speakers with an SPL - you can certainly check speaker levels post Audyssey - but Audyssey microphone is usually more accurate than most SPL meters.

It's his LCR that are being set to -12....

post #59494 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

Quick question about running Audyssey. Do I level adjust the volume first within the speaker adjustments and then run Audyssey? Or do I let Audyssey run and then adjust the speakers? I've noticed when I run Audyssey it sets my LCR speakers to -12 all the time. Heading out now to get a boom mic stand and a SPL meter.

 

b)6.   Does it matter how I set the controls on my AVR when running Audyssey?

 

e)6.   What do I do if my trim levels are at the limits of their adjustment ('maxed out')?

post #59495 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

I have the same issue with the LCR Quintuples. This is a avr/prepro problem with running out of range for the trims due to the speaker high db and with amp wpc. I used a Harrison Labs 12 dB RCA Line Level Attenuator on each interconnect going into the amp. It reduces the signal from the prepro to the amp so the trims can get down around "0" instead of -12. This will let the prepro do a better job with the trim levels.

Does adding the attenuator change the overall volume? Last thing I want to do is tame my system.

 

No - the attenuator is a gain control not a volume control. Your system will still output all you need, but from a smaller input signal. You can't leave the speakers at -12 - if you do you do not have a calibrated system.

 

Right now your system is being 'tamed' by having a volume control (the trim) set at -12dB isn't it?  If you put a 12dB attenuator in, then the trim will be set at or around 0dB. The volume will be the same. The reason you  shouldn’t run a -12dB trim is explained in the FAQ answer I posted.

post #59496 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I’d be obliged if you would delete your two posts please, Jeff.  I will mark the third post (my own) as 'Reserved for FAQ' and then try to figure out how to hyperlink from post to post (which can be done so I am told).  Thanks buddy.

EDIT:  I now know how to carry the FAQ over into two or more posts in a transparent and elegant manner. The 'trick' is that the posts need to be on the same AVS page. This means we now have no worries about the length of the FAQ for the future, as I 'own' several consecutive posts after the one we are discussing here. I will move the '101' to the next post which is probably a good idea in itself anyway and which will leave plenty of room for expansion of the main FAQ, if needed.

EDIT:

For ease of reference, the two posts are:

This one

and

This one

Done!

 

 

Thanks Jeff!
post #59497 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

What exactly does audyssey do? Simply suggest crossover points and speaker distance?

 

Try this:

 

H. MultEQ: What Is It, How Does It Work?

post #59498 of 70896

FAQ UPDATE!

 

I have now split the FAQ across two consecutive posts to overcome the problems of AVS post-length limitations, which meant I could no longer add new information to the FAQ as and when it is needed.

 

I have moved the '101' section of the FAQ to its own post now, thus freeing up the space it took in the main FAQ.

 

To the user this will be transparent - if you click the link in the main FAQ that takes you to the 101, you are just taken there instantly, as with any other hyperlink. When in the 101, if you click the link to the main FAQ, you are also taken straight back to it, instantly, just as when it was all in one post.  This 'hyperlinking' from post to post is only possible when the posts in question are all on the same AVS page, as the FAQ and 101 now are thanks to Jeff (pepar) kindly deleting two of his posts for me.

post #59499 of 70896
So I picked up a Denon 4520 on Friday night and after setting it up I'm quite happy with it.

Since it has XT32 I'm now thinking of adding a second subwoofer. However, I have constraints on where to put the sub - at the moment I have a sub in the left front corner of the room facing the listening position. I don't have room to setup another sub in the front of the room facing the listening position so I would have to add it in the back left corner and I guess I was wondering is whether doing this is likely to yield an improvement or whether given the less than ideal location I would be forcing something that is unlikely to provide any benefit?

Basically, the two subs would be facing each other - though with about 16 feet between them. The one option I do have is to turn the sub that would go in the back of the room 90 degrees so that it is firing to the opposite side of the room as opposed toward the front at the existing sub.

Anyway, any input from those with any experience in such a situation would be appreciated.
post #59500 of 70896
^Without knowing what sub you have, the volume of the room, etc., I'll leave aside frquent pleasing results of adding more subwoofage like "bass slam" and comment on how the smoothness of the bass can be improved with a second sub. The more placement options you have the more likely you'll achieve a good result, but AFAIK there's no way to predict if a second sub in a certain corner will smooth the bass worth the cost. It would be helpful to measure what you are getting with XT32 and 1 sub, or even move the one sub.

If you have some options, placement of sub(s) should be guided by a measured sub haul, (use of a measuring system like REW or OmniMic), done with all EQ including Audyssey disengaged. You simply check which location yields FR graphs showing smoothest overall bass response overall.

By ear you'd listen with all EQ including Audyssey disengaged to your current one sub. Place the second sub in various positions and listen to bass-laden content. Repeat till you feel you've got the best spot.

Either way, next step is to rerun Audyssey. A few folks with measuring system have taken it even further, measuring while tweaking distance.

Opposite midwall placements is reportedly frequently pretty good and works for me. AFAIK it shouldn't matter much if both are firing towards the middle or not. I prefer matched subs when practical.
Edited by SoundofMind - 1/27/13 at 7:49am
post #59501 of 70896

Good advice from SoM.  As he says, there is no reason to think that the placement you mention would by necessarily bad.  Unfortunately, you never really know until you purchase the second sub, place both subs in all possible locations, and measure the results.  The only additional advice I would offer is to add an identical sub, if you purchase another one.  Configuring identical subs for best bass response is considerably easier than if you have two different subs.

post #59502 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Good advice from SoM.  As he says, there is no reason to think that the placement you mention would by necessarily bad.  Unfortunately, you never really know until you purchase the second sub, place both subs in all possible locations, and measure the results.  The only additional advice I would offer is to add an identical sub, if you purchase another one.  Configuring identical subs for best bass response is considerably easier than if you have two different subs.

 

+1

post #59503 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by EVT View Post

So I picked up a Denon 4520 on Friday night and after setting it up I'm quite happy with it.

Since it has XT32 I'm now thinking of adding a second subwoofer. However, I have constraints on where to put the sub - at the moment I have a sub in the left front corner of the room facing the listening position. I don't have room to setup another sub in the front of the room facing the listening position so I would have to add it in the back left corner and I guess I was wondering is whether doing this is likely to yield an improvement or whether given the less than ideal location I would be forcing something that is unlikely to provide any benefit?

Basically, the two subs would be facing each other - though with about 16 feet between them. The one option I do have is to turn the sub that would go in the back of the room 90 degrees so that it is firing to the opposite side of the room as opposed toward the front at the existing sub.

Anyway, any input from those with any experience in such a situation would be appreciated.

Here's a link to the Audioholics site that you might find informative;

http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/get-good-bass/subwoofer-placement-the-place-for-bass-part-1/subwoofer-placement-the-place-for-bass-part-1-page-6

I have identical subs placed side mid-wall and they sound great. Smooth, clean and not localizable. They also are able to be measured correctly if you don't have SubEq HT.
post #59504 of 70896
I am really beginning to hate Audyssey, but I am going to learn this! So I just put my amp gain from about 4 oclock to noon, reran Audyssey and the numbers look jacked up to me. Still puts LCR and subs at -12. Pulled out the SPL meter and the LCR's are at 75db (at -12) rears are 71db (at -2) and sub is at 55db. Shouldn't all of the speakers be at 75db during level calibration?
post #59505 of 70896
^Be patient. The channels that have amps that can be turned down can be brought into proper trim. Please clarify what amps you turned down (was it just the subs?) and post the trims clearly for all channels after this last rerun.
post #59506 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

I am really beginning to hate Audyssey, but I am going to learn this! So I just put my amp gain from about 4 oclock to noon, reran Audyssey and the numbers look jacked up to me. Still puts LCR and subs at -12. Pulled out the SPL meter and the LCR's are at 75db (at -12) rears are 71db (at -2) and sub is at 55db. Shouldn't all of the speakers be at 75db during level calibration?

Look for problems in your rear surrounds. It is like Audyssey is not hearing a driver in them and trying to compensate by pulling down all the other speakers.
post #59507 of 70896
Seanile, I had to turn my sub's gain nearly all the way down to get Audyssey to register it within 3dB. I did a few partial (not all 8 position) measurements to help speed up the process. And the results are definitely worth it!
post #59508 of 70896
Hey guys, I bought an Onkyo TX-NR3008, because I was very excited to try XT-32. Right now, I just have fronts (2 Polk SDA-2B) and subwoofers (2 Epik Legend). I ran the Audyssey calibration triggered by plugging in the mic, which successfully set the speaker levels and delays; however, when I measue with REW, the Audyssey EQ curve is identical to the no EQ curve. I'm not sure what else I need to do to get room correction?

During the calibration process, it calibrated the subwoofer levels then played pulses through each channel at the main listening position. After that, it had me move the mic to seven other locations around the listening area where it played pulses just through the connected channels. I had the mic mounted facing the ceiling on a boom mic stand.

Any ideas as to what the issue might be?
post #59509 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

I am really beginning to hate Audyssey, but I am going to learn this! So I just put my amp gain from about 4 oclock to noon, reran Audyssey and the numbers look jacked up to me. Still puts LCR and subs at -12. Pulled out the SPL meter and the LCR's are at 75db (at -12) rears are 71db (at -2) and sub is at 55db. Shouldn't all of the speakers be at 75db during level calibration?

you have goodadvice above. The-12 calibrations indicate that your amps are too hot for the receiver to properly calibrate (assuming its a Denon, it runs out of adjustment at -12 dB). So turn down more. If the potentiometers in the amps happen to be linear, turning down from 4 oclock to 12 oclock is likely less than a 2 dB adjustment. To get such devices into range you may have to go into the lowest ten percent of the volume control range. Because there's only 10 dB of adjustment above the 10 percent setting . . . the nature of the beast.

What signal are you using to test post-autosetup speaker levels?
post #59510 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

you have goodadvice above. The-12 calibrations indicate that your amps are too hot for the receiver to properly calibrate (assuming its a Denon, it runs out of adjustment at -12 dB). So turn down more. If the potentiometers in the amps happen to be linear, turning down from 4 oclock to 12 oclock is likely less than a 2 dB adjustment. To get such devices into range you may have to go into the lowest ten percent of the volume control range. Because there's only 10 dB of adjustment above the 10 percent setting . . . the nature of the beast.

What signal are you using to test post-autosetup speaker levels?

I believe part of the issue is my LCR are incredibly efficient compared to the rears. Even at -12 for the LCR it gets them to 75db testing with that horrible static sound that comes out of the Onkyo when I use the level calibration adjust. What has me scratching my head is the speakers read 75db yet the subs read about 60db. Shouldn't the subs also be at 75db?

Is my system asking too much of Audyssey? These JTR speakers are really efficient and I do have 4 18" subs with an inuke6000 amp feeding them about 1800w.
post #59511 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

you have goodadvice above. The-12 calibrations indicate that your amps are too hot for the receiver to properly calibrate (assuming its a Denon, it runs out of adjustment at -12 dB). So turn down more. If the potentiometers in the amps happen to be linear, turning down from 4 oclock to 12 oclock is likely less than a 2 dB adjustment. To get such devices into range you may have to go into the lowest ten percent of the volume control range. Because there's only 10 dB of adjustment above the 10 percent setting . . . the nature of the beast.

What signal are you using to test post-autosetup speaker levels?

I believe part of the issue is my LCR are incredibly efficient compared to the rears. Even at -12 for the LCR it gets them to 75db testing with that horrible static sound that comes out of the Onkyo when I use the level calibration adjust. What has me scratching my head is the speakers read 75db yet the subs read about 60db. Shouldn't the subs also be at 75db?

Is my system asking too much of Audyssey? These JTR speakers are really efficient and I do have 4 18" subs with an inuke6000 amp feeding them about 1800w.

You previously mentioned that you're using an XPA-5 amp. Emotiva amps are well known to have very high gain. When combined with efficient speakers, this causes problems for Audyssey. You need to use inline attenuators between the preamp outputs of the receiver and the inputs of the amplifier because the receiver is unable to reduce its output low enough to be compatible. 12dB or 15dB attenuators would be appropriate. Attenuators will not make any difference in the resulting output volume or audio quality. The intent of Audyssey's calibration procedure is to ensure all of the speakers produce accurate, reference level sound in your room -- enough to damage your hearing and annoy the neighbors if you like to turn the volume up.

Attenuators are available for both RCA and XLR connections from many vendors.
e.g.
http://www.amazon.com/Harrison-Labs-Line-Level-Attenuator/dp/B0006N41B0
http://www.amazon.com/Dayton-Audio-XATT10-In-Line-Attenuator/dp/B0024TDIN6
post #59512 of 70896
Hey guys,

Thanks for all the good sub advice. It sounds like an additional subwoofer should help! I have two nearly identical Velodyne subs (one in each my HT setups) so I'm going to give that a try and see how it goes. Basically I have exactly two spots that I can use so I don't have much flexibility in placement other than which direction to face the subs.

I was actually considering adding a 15" sub to my existing 12", but from the information you guys provided I guess I get the sense it would be better to add an additional 12" Velodyne sub instead. Do I have that correct?
post #59513 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by intangiblefatman View Post

Hey guys, I bought an Onkyo TX-NR3008, because I was very excited to try XT-32. Right now, I just have fronts (2 Polk SDA-2B) and subwoofers (2 Epik Legend). I ran the Audyssey calibration triggered by plugging in the mic, which successfully set the speaker levels and delays; however, when I measue with REW, the Audyssey EQ curve is identical to the no EQ curve. I'm not sure what else I need to do to get room correction?

During the calibration process, it calibrated the subwoofer levels then played pulses through each channel at the main listening position. After that, it had me move the mic to seven other locations around the listening area where it played pulses just through the connected channels. I had the mic mounted facing the ceiling on a boom mic stand.

Any ideas as to what the issue might be?

 

Basic question - after running Audyssey you did SAVE the calibration?  You have to do this step manually - it isn't automatic.

post #59514 of 70896
Just bought 12db attenuators for my LCR speakers.
post #59515 of 70896
Good move. That will fix it. Re-run Audyssey of course.

Jeff
post #59516 of 70896
Audyssey will have its hands full. 4 more 18" subs show up this week. That'll give me 8 18" subs, the 2 sub amps and the JTR's.
post #59517 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggsantafe View Post

quote name="SeaNile" url="/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/59460#post_22882602"]Quick question about running Audyssey. Do I level adjust the volume first within the speaker adjustments and then run Audyssey? Or do I let Audyssey run and then adjust the speakers? I've noticed when I run Audyssey it sets my LCR speakers to -12 all the time. Heading out now to get a boom mic stand and a SPL meter.[

A -12 L/C/R setting typically results from having your subwoofer gain set too high. Try Decreasing the gain on your subwoofer , and rerun Audyssey - that should result in lower speaker trims and allow Audyssey to properly equalize your speakers . No need to adjust your speakers with an SPL - you can certainly check speaker levels post Audyssey - but Audyssey microphone is usually more accurate than most SPL meters.

{buzzer} False. L/C/R trim settings are not related to the subwoofer trim when the trims are adjusted to achieve reference playback levels. Each trim is solely a function of the efficiency and gain structure of the entire chain from receiver/processor to speaker drivers in that channel.

Jeff
Edited by pepar - 1/27/13 at 1:32pm
post #59518 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by EVT View Post

I have two nearly identical Velodyne subs (one in each my HT setups) so I'm going to give that a try and see how it goes. Basically I have exactly two spots that I can use so I don't have much flexibility in placement other than which direction to face the subs.

I was actually considering adding a 15" sub to my existing 12", but from the information you guys provided I guess I get the sense it would be better to add an additional 12" Velodyne sub instead. Do I have that correct?
Yes, especially if they are very similar in rated performance.

This is a very good plan-a big plus is that since you have another Velo 12" sub in the other room, the test costs you only the effort involved.
post #59519 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

{buzzer} False. L/C/R trim settings are not related to the subwoofer trim when the trims are adjusted to achieve reference playback levels. Each trim is solely a function of the efficiency and gain structure of the entire chain from receiver/processor to speaker drivers in that channel.

Jeff

Yes - I sit corrected - JHaz & Selden Bell have provided good advice on what turned out to be a more complicated problem with SeaNIle's setup.
post #59520 of 70896
How do you set your speakers to small? my audyssey on my denon 890 keeps setting them as large so that my subwoofer has nothing to do.

My google-fu has failed me. Help? :'(
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