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"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 1993

post #59761 of 70911
And to be clear let's note that this is ONLY on reference to Dynamic EQ. Audyssey has multiple technologies which serve different functions. The surround level boost is strictly a part of Dyn EQ.
post #59762 of 70911
Confirming subwoofer settings:

I recently ran Audyssey for the first time on my Denon 4311. I followed the various setup guides but might have made a mistake or two on the subwoofer and wanted the experts to weigh in on whether I'm on the right track. The first part of the Audyssey test involved level matching the sub. After sending a tone to the sub, a graphic on the screen indicated the actual level and if the results were "red", it told me to either dial up or down until the level was "blue". Starting the sub's "volume" level at 12:00 resulted in readings way too high and I think mine settled at 73.5dB with the knob parked at 8:30. Seems kind of low, but that's what gave me the "blue" level Audyssey was looking for.

I switched the phase to 0.

I don't believe there is anything that allows me to disable the low pass filter. If this isn't possible, is the next best thing dialing up the crossover knob to the highest setting? In my case, that is only 90hz. Is that sufficient? The setup guides use an example of 150hz, but I can't get that high. I ran Audyssey with it set at 80. Will dialing it up to 90 yield a noticeable change?

I have a toggle switch on my sub labeled "Crossover In and Out". I don't really know what this does or what it should be set at during the test.

And finally, my only graphic display in my theater is the screen, so to view the Audyssey menus during the test, I had to keep my projector on. While it is fairly quiet and I had it on the low bulb setting, I know Audyssey still picked it up. What do you guys do in this situation? Should I bring in a tv and park it behind my seating during the test?

Here is a shot of the back of my sub.
post #59763 of 70911
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

The discussion above is centred on speakers with powered bass drivers. These speakers are not all that common and they may, or may not, require special consideration when setting up. If you don't have this type of speaker you can safely ignore all the posts above which discuss it (unless you want to learn about the subject for the sake of learning of course). 

Well, they're DefTech's claim to fame. Or were, back in the late 1990's and 2000's.

A couple of comments before we wrap up this sidebar - which you may choose to ignore if powered mains aren't relevant to you or not of educational interest:
IMO, the issue with powered speakers that we've been discussing is that by and large, they were designed for a time before serious electronic room correction was in the mainstream. Even then, Pioneer MCACC doesn't EQ low bass (< 63 Hz), and Audyssey itself didn't gain its competitive advantage with subwoofers until XT (particularly XT32, circa 2010) and Sub EQ were introduced. My own DefTech Mythos ST were introduced in 2006-7. And the marketing advantage of powered speakers is that you supposedly can avoid the need for a separate subwoofer; industry reviews touted the convenience of avoiding issues with room treatments and sub placement. Plus they sound darn good regardless, especially for two-channel music.

Of course, back then, who was running around using OmniMic or REW to test frequency response on laptops, run waterfalls or ETC graphs, and worry about 0 vs. 90 degree mic placement? The technology didn't exist for consumers beyond sound engineers and the 'bleeding edge' folks that did DIY to build their own speakers or treatments. You know who you are smile.gif.

So, you'd get a bench test like this one, and the structural weaknesses of the speaker would appear obvious to us now, but less so back in the day in the midst of a general rave review:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/test-bench-definitive-technology-mythos-st-loudspeakers

Seeing this now in 2013, it's even more evidence for why you don't want to run these speakers as Large or use them as Small with the powered section being the 'sub' on LFE, with a - 3db point at 38 Hz. And I've seen that 150 Hz issue they cite. Certainly DefTech prefers to avoid the issue by recommending no use of room correction to have the speakers work as designed (after all, it defeats the positioning as AIO speaker/sub combos). But as Keith says, Audyssey doesn't know or care that you have tweeters or woofers that are anything other than part of a full response capability of that speaker. They might as well be green cheese (or my own favorite, hummus) for all it knows! But is it worth the tradeoff of no room correction? No way!But they do require more work to set up, which is the labor of love/YMMV part. However, so's anything else once you're in the rabbit hole.eek.gif

At least in my own experience, I found that the level matching of powered/non-powered parts of the speaker (run BEFORE Audyssey with the temporary LFE connection and cable swapping) helps on the structural issues. However, what 'really' helped in own system was something that goes against the protocol for post-Audyssey assessment of testing L/R vs. L/C/R with subs (waterfall aside): it's having all three front speakers as effective 'mid-bass' modules, to handle frequency response. But for the overall sound I get, I wouldn't trade my powered Mythos for anything in the world, now that I've had them for over two years, unless I was reallly in a teardown/do it over mode. But there's better ways to spend time and money IMO once you have a DefTech type speaker, like better subs, an AVR with XT32 (+ Pro), and getting the most out of your room.

I wlll say that for those of you coming to the Audyssey thread and asking about the issues, you should count yourself lucky. When I started using Audyssey, there were plenty of folks on the Mythos ST and MCACC (or AS-EQ1) threads that used a powered speaker/sub/sub EQ combo, but very little discussion of how they did equalization.

One last thing before moving on: the 'level matching' didn't really make much difference in my Denon 4311's post-Audyssey crossover settings as such: I always get "Large" in consumer XT32, and "Large", 40, 60 , and 80 Hz as my suggestions in Pro (the exact order of 40/60/80 somewhat randomly). Where it makes a difference is post-Audyssey assessment for the crossover region, particularly for the distance tweak.
post #59764 of 70911
@ Spaceman -

AFAIK, the "Out" setting will bypass the Crossover setting next to it, so you're good. Re: PJ, you may want to consider picking up a small 12" HDMI PC display that can be used during the setup process.
post #59765 of 70911
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I don't know about 'guru' status, Stuart, but I generally keep out of discussions that involve speakers with built-in powered subs. Mainly because I don't know all that much about them and, from a purely personal POV only, would never, ever buy speakers that even pretended to dig much deeper than 60-80Hz, let alone used a powered internal sub to help in that regard. As I said before, in the days of totally banging subs and smaller, cheaper, easier-to-design satellite speakers, I just don't see the point.  HST, those who have such speakers have them, and probably want to keep them, and they deserve a good answer to their queries - I'm just not the person to give them that answer. You seem to be doing a great job with the OP anyway!

Hey, you guys trained me well smile.gif. I won't claim to have 'the last word in audio' eek.gif, but having the example of people like the absent ccotenj and you folks on the Pro thread, I've tried to learn something. Even if I'm not as far down the rabbit hole of 'audio nirvana' as some of you guys can go. Just wait til I show you my room on the REW thread....surround placement is anything but ideal, but we don't have much choice there.
post #59766 of 70911
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fischer View Post

Hi I have a question!

Is it just the sound level that determines how much you experience the surround speakers, or does Audyssey using some kind of algorithm to calculate how present and active surround speakers should be?
Why I ask is that I feel that I get slightly different results ,sometimes the surroundspeakers blends in seamlessly and sometimes they get more present and I have tried to experiment some times by simply raising or lowering the sound level but do not feel that I reach the same result, so how does it actually work?

If you are referring to Dynamic EQ, then the FAQ answer, here, will help:

 

g)2.   What is Dynamic EQ?

 

Also, be aware that all movies are mixed differently - some will make more use of the surrounds than others, some will use the surrounds in different ways. Some mixes place very discreet sounds in the surround channels (gun shots etc) while others use them for ambience effects only. There is no 'right' or 'wrong' way. What is important is that you hear what the mixer intended and, to this end, Audyssey sets the surround channels to the correct distances (delays) and levels during the calibration. Because movies are mixed at 'reference level' (see below) the result will only sound correct when played back at reference level - and this is where Dynamic EQ comes in, to recreate the 'reference experience' at listening levels below reference (which is where most people listen).

 

a)3.   I keep reading about Reference Level'. What is it?

post #59767 of 70911
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

The discussion above is centred on speakers with powered bass drivers. These speakers are not all that common and they may, or may not, require special consideration when setting up. If you don't have this type of speaker you can safely ignore all the posts above which discuss it (unless you want to learn about the subject for the sake of learning of course). 

Well, they're DefTech's claim to fame. Or were, back in the late 1990's and 2000's.

A couple of comments before we wrap up this sidebar - which you may choose to ignore if powered mains aren't relevant to you or not of educational interest:
IMO, the issue with powered speakers that we've been discussing is that by and large, they were designed for a time before serious electronic room correction was in the mainstream. Even then, Pioneer MCACC doesn't EQ low bass (< 63 Hz), and Audyssey itself didn't gain its competitive advantage with subwoofers until XT (particularly XT32, circa 2010) and Sub EQ were introduced. My own DefTech Mythos ST were introduced in 2006-7. And the marketing advantage of powered speakers is that you supposedly can avoid the need for a separate subwoofer; industry reviews touted the convenience of avoiding issues with room treatments and sub placement. Plus they sound darn good regardless, especially for two-channel music.

Of course, back then, who was running around using OmniMic or REW to test frequency response on laptops, run waterfalls or ETC graphs, and worry about 0 vs. 90 degree mic placement? The technology didn't exist for consumers beyond sound engineers and the 'bleeding edge' folks that did DIY to build their own speakers or treatments. You know who you are smile.gif.

So, you'd get a bench test like this one, and the structural weaknesses of the speaker would appear obvious to us now, but less so back in the day in the midst of a general rave review:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/test-bench-definitive-technology-mythos-st-loudspeakers

Seeing this now in 2013, it's even more evidence for why you don't want to run these speakers as Large or use them as Small with the powered section being the 'sub' on LFE, with a - 3db point at 38 Hz. And I've seen that 150 Hz issue they cite. Certainly DefTech prefers to avoid the issue by recommending no use of room correction to have the speakers work as designed (after all, it defeats the positioning as AIO speaker/sub combos). But as Keith says, Audyssey doesn't know or care that you have tweeters or woofers that are anything other than part of a full response capability of that speaker. They might as well be green cheese (or my own favorite, hummus) for all it knows! But is it worth the tradeoff of no room correction? No way!But they do require more work to set up, which is the labor of love/YMMV part. However, so's anything else once you're in the rabbit hole.eek.gif

At least in my own experience, I found that the level matching of powered/non-powered parts of the speaker (run BEFORE Audyssey with the temporary LFE connection and cable swapping) helps on the structural issues. However, what 'really' helped in own system was something that goes against the protocol for post-Audyssey assessment of testing L/R vs. L/C/R with subs (waterfall aside): it's having all three front speakers as effective 'mid-bass' modules, to handle frequency response. But for the overall sound I get, I wouldn't trade my powered Mythos for anything in the world, now that I've had them for over two years, unless I was reallly in a teardown/do it over mode. But there's better ways to spend time and money IMO once you have a DefTech type speaker, like better subs, an AVR with XT32 (+ Pro), and getting the most out of your room.

I wlll say that for those of you coming to the Audyssey thread and asking about the issues, you should count yourself lucky. When I started using Audyssey, there were plenty of folks on the Mythos ST and MCACC (or AS-EQ1) threads that used a powered speaker/sub/sub EQ combo, but very little discussion of how they did equalization.

One last thing before moving on: the 'level matching' didn't really make much difference in my Denon 4311's post-Audyssey crossover settings as such: I always get "Large" in consumer XT32, and "Large", 40, 60 , and 80 Hz as my suggestions in Pro (the exact order of 40/60/80 somewhat randomly). Where it makes a difference is post-Audyssey assessment for the crossover region, particularly for the distance tweak.

Stuart, this is very useful stuff (to those with speakers with powered subwoofers). Do you think you might care to translate the above post into a FAQ Q&A?  If so, I will be very happy to include it in the FAQ - I am sure it will crop up from time to time and it would be good t have the knowledge you have gained 'all in one place'. The Q could be something like "How do I set up Audyssey when using speakers with powered subwoofers built-in?". If you don't have the time (or indeed the inclination) no worries...

post #59768 of 70911
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I don't know about 'guru' status, Stuart, but I generally keep out of discussions that involve speakers with built-in powered subs. Mainly because I don't know all that much about them and, from a purely personal POV only, would never, ever buy speakers that even pretended to dig much deeper than 60-80Hz, let alone used a powered internal sub to help in that regard. As I said before, in the days of totally banging subs and smaller, cheaper, easier-to-design satellite speakers, I just don't see the point.  HST, those who have such speakers have them, and probably want to keep them, and they deserve a good answer to their queries - I'm just not the person to give them that answer. You seem to be doing a great job with the OP anyway!

Hey, you guys trained me well smile.gif. I won't claim to have 'the last word in audio' eek.gif, but having the example of people like the absent ccotenj and you folks on the Pro thread, I've tried to learn something. Even if I'm not as far down the rabbit hole of 'audio nirvana' as some of you guys can go. Just wait til I show you my room on the REW thread....surround placement is anything but ideal, but we don't have much choice there.

 

:)  I am assigning you Official Guru Status on speakers with powered subs built in - see my last post to you :)

post #59769 of 70911
I'm running a Denon 1613 that has Audyssey Multieq. I just got a Klipsch RW-12D and I turned the volume down to -10 on the sub before I ran Audyssey. I first got a -9 on Audyssey so I repeated and kept turning it down until I got a -2. The volume on the sub was all the way down to -18. I know the virtues of Audyssey, but part of me died turning my new sub down so low. I tested with some Chris Botti Blu Ray disc and I turned the sub volume up slightly on the AVR. Should I wait until my ears get used to the new level or should I tinker with it until I get it dialed in?
post #59770 of 70911
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaceman View Post


And finally, my only graphic display in my theater is the screen, so to view the Audyssey menus during the test, I had to keep my projector on. While it is fairly quiet and I had it on the low bulb setting, I know Audyssey still picked it up. What do you guys do in this situation? Should I bring in a tv and park it behind my seating during the test?
 

JD has answered your questions thoroughly. I'd just add that I wouldn't over-worry about the fan noise from the PJ at this stage. If Audyssey detects ambient noise is too high it will alert you and I am assuming that didn't happen or you would have mentioned it. Audyssey can differentiate between ambient noise, like the PJ fan, and its own chirps (or it wouldn't be able to alert you to it) by, I am assuming, listening to the ambient noise before running the chirps. This means that it can also ignore the ambient noise when measuring - it simply raises the level of the chirps until it has sufficient signal to noise ratio to make a good calibration. It does this three times and if the ambient noise is still too loud, it abandons the calibration and tells you so. 

 

HST, JDs idea of a small TV monitor just for the calibrations is exceptionally cool - and you could use it for other things too - adjustments and the like. If you had the gear in a separate closet like I do, this would be cooler still. In fact, I may well steal this idea and use it myself. :)

post #59771 of 70911
Quote:
Originally Posted by sojodave View Post

I'm running a Denon 1613 that has Audyssey Multieq. I just got a Klipsch RW-12D and I turned the volume down to -10 on the sub before I ran Audyssey. I first got a -9 on Audyssey so I repeated and kept turning it down until I got a -2. The volume on the sub was all the way down to -18. I know the virtues of Audyssey, but part of me died turning my new sub down so low. I tested with some Chris Botti Blu Ray disc and I turned the sub volume up slightly on the AVR. Should I wait until my ears get used to the new level or should I tinker with it until I get it dialed in?

 

Don't forget that the control on the sub isn't a volume control  - it is a gain control. Your sub isn't being 'restricted' in any way - it will still play as loud. It just means that it can reach max power from a smaller input that's all. 

 

-2 is a great sub trim level setting. Usual advice now is to listen for a few days and assess how you like the quality of the bass (rather than the quantity). If, after the few days, you feel you need louder bass, increase the trim level by a few dB. Many people do (me included). Make the adjustment at the AVR trim setting - don;'t touch the sub gain control once you are calibrated.

 

f)5.    Since I ran Audyssey everything sounds great - but where has my bass gone?

post #59772 of 70911
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Stuart, this is very useful stuff (to those with speakers with powered subwoofers). Do you think you might care to translate the above post into a FAQ Q&A?  If so, I will be very happy to include it in the FAQ - I am sure it will crop up from time to time and it would be good t have the knowledge you have gained 'all in one place'. The Q could be something like "How do I set up Audyssey when using speakers with powered subwoofers built-in?". If you don't have the time (or indeed the inclination) no worries...

I definitely have the inclination: the time's a different thing. I still owe AustinJerry the screenshots of getting 8-channel HDMI to work with Denon (I took them last night, just need to annotate them before posting them over the weekend).

If you don't mind, I might as well wait until I get the new UMM-6 mic to play nice with REW and measure it there (another thing on the weekend list to do LOL). Not that I think it makes much difference, but at least I'll have a 'proper' 90 degree calibration file and SPL reference to tune REW with, and I might as well do a quick and dirty three position run with Audyssey at the 'standard' woofer settings vs. the level matched ones to do a reference pre/post example with. My old examples date back to a somewhat different configuration where one of my subs was inadvertedly unplugged by a wandering Maltese, so I'd rather be 'current'.

Although to keep this from completely being strange to the layperson, I'll probably post at 1/6 or 1/12 smoothing here smile.gif.
Edited by sdrucker - 2/8/13 at 1:40pm
post #59773 of 70911
I'm about to order a marantz 8801 with XT32 - my first pre/pro with Audyssey. I have a concern regarding the calibration: I know the room needs to be quiet, but my JVC RS-1 projector is about 5 ft. above me at the MLP. It's not especially noisy, but will this ruin the calibration? I don't have another TV in the house to use temporarilly. I have read various things: that the room must be whisper quiet, and another that says Audyssey will tolerate a certain amount of ambient noise during the calibration. I have a Ratshack meter to test the decibel level and can report it here if that will help.

Thanks!
post #59774 of 70911
I have a question about Audyessy pro. I note in the FAQ's there is a comment not to change the crossover point from what what Audyessy selected or you lose the benefit of the special curve(s) generated by pro for the selected crossover point. If that is the case I am surprised as I thought all Audyessy setups were "slave" to the AVR's processing and curves-be they 6db, 12 db, 18 db or whatever rolloffs. What is the case? Second part is when Audyessy is turned off are the crossover curves strictly dictated by the AVR?

Thanks
post #59775 of 70911
I have only Audyssey multeq and one sub output on my avr. If I use a Y adapter to connect both subs I know Audyssey will eq,set the distance ect and see them as only one sub but, with the sub gain how will that work? If for example the avr shows +3 does this mean both subs are at + 3? The subs are not identical either. One is the Hsu VTF3 MK4 that I want to use as a mid bass module and the main on is the Kreisel 12012 that will arrive soon.
post #59776 of 70911
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Stuart, this is very useful stuff (to those with speakers with powered subwoofers). Do you think you might care to translate the above post into a FAQ Q&A?  If so, I will be very happy to include it in the FAQ - I am sure it will crop up from time to time and it would be good t have the knowledge you have gained 'all in one place'. The Q could be something like "How do I set up Audyssey when using speakers with powered subwoofers built-in?". If you don't have the time (or indeed the inclination) no worries...

I definitely have the inclination: the time's a different thing. I still owe AustinJerry the screenshots of getting 8-channel HDMI to work with Denon (I took them last night, just need to annotate them before posting them over the weekend).

If you don't mind, I might as well wait until I get the new UMM-6 mic to play nice with REW and measure it there (another thing on the weekend list to do LOL). Not that I think it makes much difference, but at least I'll have a 'proper' 90 degree calibration file and SPL reference to tune REW with, and I might as well do a quick and dirty three position run with Audyssey at the 'standard' woofer settings vs. the level matched ones to do a reference pre/post example with. My old examples date back to a somewhat different configuration where one of my subs was inadvertedly unplugged by a wandering Maltese, so I'd rather be 'current'.

Although to keep this from completely being strange to the layperson, I'll probably post at 1/6 or 1/12 smoothing here smile.gif.

 

No problemo Stuart - if you do get the time, just PM me the copy for the answer to the Q and I will add it to the FAQ.

post #59777 of 70911
Quote:
Originally Posted by TL5 View Post

I'm about to order a marantz 8801 with XT32 - my first pre/pro with Audyssey. I have a concern regarding the calibration: I know the room needs to be quiet, but my JVC RS-1 projector is about 5 ft. above me at the MLP. It's not especially noisy, but will this ruin the calibration? I don't have another TV in the house to use temporarilly. I have read various things: that the room must be whisper quiet, and another that says Audyssey will tolerate a certain amount of ambient noise during the calibration. I have a Ratshack meter to test the decibel level and can report it here if that will help.

Thanks!

Look at post 59772 about 2 or 3 above yours.

 

Also look here:

 

b)2.   Why is Audyssey reporting 'Ambient Noise Too High'?

post #59778 of 70911
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsandiego View Post

I have a question about Audyessy pro. I note in the FAQ's there is a comment not to change the crossover point from what what Audyessy selected or you lose the benefit of the special curve(s) generated by pro for the selected crossover point. If that is the case I am surprised as I thought all Audyessy setups were "slave" to the AVR's processing and curves-be they 6db, 12 db, 18 db or whatever rolloffs. What is the case? Second part is when Audyessy is turned off are the crossover curves strictly dictated by the AVR?

Thanks

Pro works differently to regular MultEQ. In Pro, Audyssey creates the filters AFTER the crossover selection has been made. So if you change them in the AVR, you upset that. The correct way to change XOs with pro is to reload the measurements, change the crossovers in Pro software, let Pro create new filters and then upload to the AVR.

post #59779 of 70911
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Look at post 59772 about 2 or 3 above yours.

Also look here:

b)2.   Why is Audyssey reporting 'Ambient Noise Too High'?


Thanks - So basically It'll either calibrate or it won't - I won't get a compromised calibration, just none at all if there is excessive noise, correct?
post #59780 of 70911
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsandiego View Post

I have a question about Audyessy pro. I note in the FAQ's there is a comment not to change the crossover point from what what Audyessy selected or you lose the benefit of the special curve(s) generated by pro for the selected crossover point. If that is the case I am surprised as I thought all Audyessy setups were "slave" to the AVR's processing and curves-be they 6db, 12 db, 18 db or whatever rolloffs. What is the case? Second part is when Audyessy is turned off are the crossover curves strictly dictated by the AVR?


Thanks
Pro works differently to regular MultEQ. In Pro, Audyssey creates the filters AFTER the crossover selection has been made. So if you change them in the AVR, you upset that. The correct way to change XOs with pro is to reload the measurements, change the crossovers in Pro software, let Pro create new filters and then upload to the AVR.
Anyone ever measured to see if there's much difference in the result?


Max
post #59781 of 70911
I need some help with the AS-EQ1 as I hav just got one. I have connected it up to the yamaha Z11 and I am trying to run the auto eq system where i have put the yamaha mic into the pass through mic in and the cable from the passthrough out goes to the input on the amp which is for YPAO. When I try to start the auto test tones on the amp I get an error message on the amp saying E05 which stands for noise. It mist be noise from the SVS as the room is deathly quiet.

What am I doing wrong as I am supposed to be able to run this as the amp will set the levels for the speaker and then the EQ1 will take over the setting of the sub.

Thanks

Stu
post #59782 of 70911
Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post


Anyone ever measured to see if there's much difference in the result?


Max

 

Measured exactly what, Max?  I have measured just about everything, so the chances are good.

post #59783 of 70911
Quote:
Originally Posted by samhain1 View Post

I need some help with the AS-EQ1 as I hav just got one. I have connected it up to the yamaha Z11 and I am trying to run the auto eq system where i have put the yamaha mic into the pass through mic in and the cable from the passthrough out goes to the input on the amp which is for YPAO. When I try to start the auto test tones on the amp I get an error message on the amp saying E05 which stands for noise. It mist be noise from the SVS as the room is deathly quiet.

What am I doing wrong as I am supposed to be able to run this as the amp will set the levels for the speaker and then the EQ1 will take over the setting of the sub.

Thanks

Stu

 

It's been a while since I had my AS-EQ1.  It sounds like you have the mic cabled properly.  Are you sure the AS-EQ1 is in good working order?  You might want to take this conversation over to the AS-EQ1 thread, where you may get more advice.

post #59784 of 70911
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701

I don't know about 'guru' status, Stuart, but I generally keep out of discussions that involve speakers with built-in powered subs. Mainly because I don't know all that much about them and, from a purely personal POV only, would never, ever buy speakers that even pretended to dig much deeper than 60-80Hz, let alone used a powered internal sub to help in that regard. As I said before, in the days of totally banging subs and smaller, cheaper, easier-to-design satellite speakers, I just don't see the point. HST, those who have such speakers have them, and probably want to keep them, and they deserve a good answer to their queries - I'm just not the person to give them that answer. You seem to be doing a great job with the OP anyway!

Yes, I would never buy a full range speaker that claims to integrate a sub. Separate subs are just so much more flexible. I would perhaps consider a three way speaker with a built in passive woofer but that's a whole different animal and I would use it with a sub.

Agreed. When I look at my subs and their dual 15 inch drivers, huge amps and substantial cabinetry, it just seems obvious to me that I will never encounter a regular speaker that can even hope to deliver the same quality and amount of bass. And that is to ignore the placement problems when trying to get the main speakers in the right place for soundstage and imagery and the subs in the right place for optimum interaction with the room and its modes. Life has moved on from the 70s and subs are an accepted fact of audio life these days, thankfully! As Stuart said earlier, as we learn more, we understand more. (I just checked - he actually said "Our thinking evolves with our experience" which is a better way of putting it than I just did).

Sorry about getting in on the conversation late. I had a 5 hour drive to make for work. We learn as we go along...Unfortunately I can't return my 8060 powered DT towers as I am a few weeks out of the time period. Or else I probably would considering what I have learned and buy some of DT's studio monitors instead. Cheaper obviously because it doesn't have the built in amp and sub. They simply have the passive radiators on top. I may still get the Studio Monitor 65's for front L/R and perhaps use the towers as wides or even surrounds. Or sell...

Kbarnes, I know you stated you don't comment much on powered towers but perhaps you could think about this in a logical way and comment with your experience. I have my towers crossed at 80hz and set to small. The built in crossovers send frequencies lower than 150-200hz to the built in subs and the higher frequencies to the midrange's and tweeter. So in this sense I am not asking the towers to dig deep and leaving that to my HSU VTF-15H sub. Rather I have the 15H digging deep, the towers subs from 80-150ish, then the rest to the mids and tweeters. I have ran Audyssey Multi EQ XT numerous times and it just treats them as capable full range speakers. I just then move the crossover up to 80 so my 15H can do the digging. Again I may get the Studio Monitors soon and find another placement for the towers. Perhaps building a small platform and raise them up a little and use them for side surrounds?
post #59785 of 70911
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

Anyone ever measured to see if there's much difference in the result?



Max

Measured exactly what, Max?  I have measured just about everything, so the chances are good.
Measured to see what the differences were between using Audyssey Pro's first recommended crossover, and using the 2nd crossover recommendation as well as the difference between using the 2nd recommended crossover and then allowing Pro to calculate specific filters for that crossover vs just changing it as we do with regular XT32.

Eg.

If the L&R are capable of low frequency extension and Audyssey returns a 40Hz XO. Has anyone measured the results from using that 40Hz XO vs selecting the 40Hz XO and allowing Pro to calculate filters based on the 40Hz XO and then changing it to an 80Hz XO (as we might with regular XT32) vs selecting an 80Hz XO and allowing Pro to calculate specific filters for the 80Hz XO.


Max
post #59786 of 70911
In the same way Audyssey can mirror the surround or front channels to height speakers, does it do the same for wides?
post #59787 of 70911
Audyssey DSX can send simulated audio to the Front Heights and/or Front Wides.
post #59788 of 70911
Quote:
Audyssey DSX can send simulated audio to the Front Heights and/or Front Wides.

Thought so...
post #59789 of 70911
Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

Measured to see what the differences were between using Audyssey Pro's first recommended crossover, and using the 2nd crossover recommendation as well as the difference between using the 2nd recommended crossover and then allowing Pro to calculate specific filters for that crossover vs just changing it as we do with regular XT32.

Eg.

If the L&R are capable of low frequency extension and Audyssey returns a 40Hz XO. Has anyone measured the results from using that 40Hz XO vs selecting the 40Hz XO and allowing Pro to calculate filters based on the 40Hz XO and then changing it to an 80Hz XO (as we might with regular XT32) vs selecting an 80Hz XO and allowing Pro to calculate specific filters for the 80Hz XO.


Max

I use Pro with XT32 and my crossover for all speakers is 60 hz with plenty of bass via the subs. No need to run hot subs and the SQ is excellent.
post #59790 of 70911
Quote:
Originally Posted by TL5 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Look at post 59772 about 2 or 3 above yours.

Also look here:

b)2.   Why is Audyssey reporting 'Ambient Noise Too High'?


Thanks - So basically It'll either calibrate or it won't - I won't get a compromised calibration, just none at all if there is excessive noise, correct?

 

Correct.

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