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"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2000

post #59971 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by raaj View Post

Thank you. That is an obvious and immediate suggestion I get, and I hate to sound dismissive of all good recommendations trying to help. But mounting the TV above the fireplace would result in a literal "pain in the neck" due to it being too high from eye-level at the seating positions. I've tried mounting the TV on the mantle (at about the same height, but in the corner of the room), and it was literally like watching a planetarium presentation, and resulted in headaches and neck pains from the amount of viewing I do each day in front of the TV. redface.giffrown.gif

Hey raaj, how about making a complete twist and moving the TV and electronics + speakers to the opposite wall (to where your couch is now), while moving couch to about 2/3 from TV leaving 1/3 space from back of couch to the fireplace. Just thinking out loud, although many of your problems would be solved (even if new problems are coming up). smile.gif

 

But then he'd have his back to the fireplace when he wasn't watching TV! (Or even when he was). 

 

Raaj - do you use the fireplace?

post #59972 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

But then he'd have his back to the fireplace when he wasn't watching TV! (Or even when he was). 

Raaj - do you use the fireplace?

I am no heating expert Keith! smile.gif But, didn't I say new problems will come up? LOL
post #59973 of 70885
Ceiling mounts for TVs are readily available for under $100, but my quick search didn't turn up any with adjustable heights, which probably would be needed, so it could be raised up out of the way when using the fireplace.
post #59974 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Ceiling mounts for TVs are readily available for under $100, but my quick search didn't turn up any with adjustable heights, which probably would be needed, so it could be raised up out of the way when using the fireplace.

Wouldn't one want to use the fireplace at the same time when one wants to watch TV? tongue.gif
post #59975 of 70885
The whole seatting area needs to be angled to the corner TV. Viewing has to be poor for HD content anyway as the seat is too far from the TV for 1080p.
post #59976 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by raaj View Post

Thank you. That is an obvious and immediate suggestion I get, and I hate to sound dismissive of all good recommendations trying to help. But mounting the TV above the fireplace would result in a literal "pain in the neck" due to it being too high from eye-level at the seating positions. I've tried mounting the TV on the mantle (at about the same height, but in the corner of the room), and it was literally like watching a planetarium presentation, and resulted in headaches and neck pains from the amount of viewing I do each day in front of the TV. redface.giffrown.gif


By looking at the layout can you do this?
1. Put the tv, components by the wall with the 7x2 window
2. Put the furniture that is by the 7x2 window along the red line were you have the 17' line (that way it will be away from the fireplace
Edited by asere - 2/19/13 at 1:41pm
post #59977 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Human eyes naturally come to rest slightly below horizontal.
Yup, I think our human vision has something like a 12 degree downward bias. Plus, filmmakers tend to compose with important content in the top half of the frame (I'm sure exceptions can be found). When we see a full person on-screen, we tend to look at the face (top half of the screen). When we see a close-up of a face, we tend to look at eyes (top half of the screen). May seem counter intuitive, but a display placed with its top half at eye height is really comfortable to view. For higher placement, recliners are helpful.
post #59978 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Yup, I think our human vision has something like a 12 degree downward bias. Plus, filmmakers tend to compose with important content in the top half of the frame. When we see a full person on-screen, we tend to look at the face (top half of the screen). When we see a close-up of a face, we tend to look at eyes (top half of the screen). May seem counter intuitive, but a display placed with its top half at eye height is really comfortable to view. For higher placement, recliners are helpful.

That is exactly as I have it placed right now. All of my furniture are contemporary, low-profile so they are lower to ground than usual recliners and such. The TV is exactly at the eye level when seated in the chairs or the couch. Although the speakers don't appear to be "toed in", in reality, the position #1 in the floorplan is almost at the intersection of the axes of the speakers because of the way the front left speaker had to be angled in to accommodate the angled placement of the TV. The floorplan is not exactly to scale, so the TV and speaker orientation might appear to be focused improperly. And by turning on my rump a little bit, or turning the TV face a little bit, I am facing straight on at the TV.

I really wish I could move the furniture around or wall-mount the TV, but that would not pass the WAF due to the risk of losing the fireplace, and the need to reroute cabling to/through other walls - which is not a great prospect in a rented house.

I will try to play with the toe-in angle, and also get a boom mic stand to rerun the calibrations and see if it helps. But like I was posting elsewhere on this forum, I never had this sonic signature (bright, fatiguing, missing midbass) when I had the exact same setup, but with a Denon/Marantz receiver and without the sub. Not sure if it's the XT32, or XT32 on Onkyo 818, or the subwoofer that is causing these issues. The missing midbass is probably lower midbass, but the chunk that seems to be missing appears to be across a wide band than a typical null would sound like. My monitors are rated down to 44Hz (+2/-3dB), and they were not suffering from lack of midbass prior to XT32 calibration with the sub added in. That makes me believe it's probably not room effects killing off such a wide range of midbass freqs, but rather some crazy EQ setting by Audyssey. I really wish I had an mic to measure the room acoustics.

FWIW, this is the tripod I use for the audyssey mic:

Edited by raaj - 2/19/13 at 3:52pm
post #59979 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by raaj View Post


 I really wish I had an mic to measure the room acoustics.

 

So why don't you take the plunge and get some measuring gear?  To be honest, you are handicapping yourself trying to analyze and resolve issues that you really can't understand without measurements.  Join us over on this thread, where we are collectively developing our skills in using REW to measure our systems.

post #59980 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

So why don't you take the plunge and get some measuring gear?  To be honest, you are handicapping yourself trying to analyze and resolve issues that you really can't understand without measurements.  Join us over on this thread, where we are collectively developing our skills in using REW to measure our systems.

Boy, you guys are trouble, I tell ya !! tongue.gif
post #59981 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by raaj View Post

I really wish I could move the furniture around or wall-mount the TV, but that would not pass the WAF due to the risk of losing the fireplace, and the need to reroute cabling to/through other walls - which is not a great prospect in a rented house.[/IMG]

The highlighted part is a real PITA, I feel for you! Should you not be able to solve it you are only going for "second best". IMHO, no measurement mic or REW will ensure you the desired SQ in your current layout in your room. Is this a family house?,...do you have a basement to set up your own "mancave"? smile.gif
post #59982 of 70885
Hey guys I need some help. I'm running Audyssey right now and I keep getting an error message on the 7th position and the last speaker before my sub. It says error speaker match. I made sure all wires are correct, my speakers are all working properly, and I reset the micro processer. I've tried audyssey twice and have gotten to this same spot.

This setup has been ran before without this error. I was re running audyssey to see if I could fix an issue I was having with the highest frequencies.

This is on an Onkyo 818 running the beta 24fps bug fix software.
post #59983 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

IMHO, no measurement mic or REW will ensure you the desired SQ in your current layout in your room.

Don't forget he had the desired SQ in the same layout, and the only what have changed is the replacement of the receiver and addition of the sub. So, while lack of bass could be attributed to the sub placement (and I really have bad experience with placing sub close to the center of the long wall - it produced wide deep null at around 40Hz for me, but with his room size it could be closer to 30Hz already), but the problem with bright, fatiguing sound is definitely something different.
post #59984 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by raaj View Post

{ I should really resist the temptation to check in on this thread at work... tongue.gif}

@asere,

Thanks for taking the time to brainstorm a solution. The location you suggest is not really the middle of the room. If you look at the floorplan below, the location you recommend would be unviewable with the current seating arrangement. See the breakfast bar (half wall) separating the living room area from the kitchen, that rules out placement of the TV and speakers there. I will post a better panoramic shot later that would give you a better idea of the constraints.

For practical reasons, is it possible to move your TV & front speakers closer to the drawn red line of "17' long"?

:-)
post #59985 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Human eyes naturally come to rest slightly below horizontal.
Yup, I think our human vision has something like a 12 degree downward bias. Plus, filmmakers tend to compose with important content in the top half of the frame (I'm sure exceptions can be found). When we see a full person on-screen, we tend to look at the face (top half of the screen). When we see a close-up of a face, we tend to look at eyes (top half of the screen). May seem counter intuitive, but a display placed with its top half at eye height is really comfortable to view. For higher placement, recliners are helpful.

 

Exactly how I have mine :)  When the 84 inch screens become more affordable though, I will be slightly off from this ideal. It works nicely for my current 65 inch. 

post #59986 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

But then he'd have his back to the fireplace when he wasn't watching TV! (Or even when he was). 

Raaj - do you use the fireplace?

I am no heating expert Keith! smile.gif But, didn't I say new problems will come up? LOL

 

LOL! Is there a heating thread?  :)  I think Bill's idea is best so far - arrange the furniture so it faces the corner where the TV is.

post #59987 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by raaj View Post


 I really wish I had an mic to measure the room acoustics.

 

So why don't you take the plunge and get some measuring gear?  To be honest, you are handicapping yourself trying to analyze and resolve issues that you really can't understand without measurements.  Join us over on this thread, where we are collectively developing our skills in using REW to measure our systems.

 

+1 - come on in raaj - the water is fine!  Entry fee is just $100 for a calibrated mic. REW is free. 

post #59988 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by stitch1 View Post

Hey guys I need some help. I'm running Audyssey right now and I keep getting an error message on the 7th position and the last speaker before my sub. It says error speaker match. I made sure all wires are correct, my speakers are all working properly, and I reset the micro processer. I've tried audyssey twice and have gotten to this same spot.

This setup has been ran before without this error. I was re running audyssey to see if I could fix an issue I was having with the highest frequencies.

This is on an Onkyo 818 running the beta 24fps bug fix software.

There's a bit of basic troubleshooting in this FAQ answer - but it is basic - there hasn't been much feedback on this issue.

 

b)5.   I am getting a speaker detect error - what's wrong?

post #59989 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

IMHO, no measurement mic or REW will ensure you the desired SQ in your current layout in your room.

Don't forget he had the desired SQ in the same layout, and the only what have changed is the replacement of the receiver and addition of the sub. So, while lack of bass could be attributed to the sub placement (and I really have bad experience with placing sub close to the center of the long wall - it produced wide deep null at around 40Hz for me, but with his room size it could be closer to 30Hz already), but the problem with bright, fatiguing sound is definitely something different.

 

That is a good point, Igor. We are forgetting why raaj posted here in the first place and are all trying to solve a problem he hasn't previously had - his room layout!

post #59990 of 70885
Raaj,

Have you tried to get a replacement microphone for use with Audyssey?
Or is the microphone from your previous receiver still available to try?
Or maybe you can borrow one from a local A/V store.

It's been mentioned often enough, but I don't recall if it was mentioned this time: Audyssey microphones have been known to be faulty, and that would explain the audio problems you've reported. Such problems were reported quite often this past summer for Onkyo products which seemed to be related to them having been stored in an excessively hot environment (possibly a shipping container left in the sun during a dock strike).

If the mic is OK, some people have reported reasonable results when using the Audyssey microphone with REW. Apparently it's quite linear.
post #59991 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Raaj,
...some people have reported reasonable results when using the Audyssey microphone with REW. Apparently it's quite linear.
Should the Audyssey mic be plugged into a LINE IN port or a MIC port?
post #59992 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Raaj,
...some people have reported reasonable results when using the Audyssey microphone with REW. Apparently it's quite linear.
Should the Audyssey mic be plugged into a LINE IN port or a MIC port?

 

If this is a question about using the Audyssey mic with REW, this is the wrong thread to ask it.  Please submit the question on the REW thread.

post #59993 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Raaj,

Have you tried to get a replacement microphone for use with Audyssey?
Or is the microphone from your previous receiver still available to try?
Or maybe you can borrow one from a local A/V store.

It's been mentioned often enough, but I don't recall if it was mentioned this time: Audyssey microphones have been known to be faulty, and that would explain the audio problems you've reported. Such problems were reported quite often this past summer for Onkyo products which seemed to be related to them having been stored in an excessively hot environment (possibly a shipping container left in the sun during a dock strike).

If the mic is OK, some people have reported reasonable results when using the Audyssey microphone with REW. Apparently it's quite linear.

Thanks. I am going to ask for a replacement mic today.
post #59994 of 70885
raaj,

I had the same problem with the boosted highs with the 818 since I owned it and complained about it on this thread, the 818 thread and Ask Audyssey. I had them with the 818 (brown) mic and any of the 3 (silver) mics I have. I think I solved it by raising the mic an inch or two from the suggested ear level which allowed the mic to be completely above the top of the 2 overly stuffed La Z Boy chairs where all the measurements were taken. Now it's fine and crystal clear.
post #59995 of 70885
Please excuse a double posting between here and the receiver forum.

Does anyone know the model number of the Audyssey mic that came with the Integra DTR 6.8 receiver?

I do have an Audyssey ACM1 microphone, but I have no idea if it can be used with the Integra DTR 6.8

Thanks for your help
post #59996 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Raaj,
...some people have reported reasonable results when using the Audyssey microphone with REW. Apparently it's quite linear.
Should the Audyssey mic be plugged into a LINE IN port or a MIC port?

 

When used with REW?  Into the mic in port of your laptop. Well, when used with the latest REW beta which caters for USB mics and HDMI. I don't know how 'legacy' REW works.

post #59997 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by raaj View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Raaj,

Have you tried to get a replacement microphone for use with Audyssey?
Or is the microphone from your previous receiver still available to try?
Or maybe you can borrow one from a local A/V store.

It's been mentioned often enough, but I don't recall if it was mentioned this time: Audyssey microphones have been known to be faulty, and that would explain the audio problems you've reported. Such problems were reported quite often this past summer for Onkyo products which seemed to be related to them having been stored in an excessively hot environment (possibly a shipping container left in the sun during a dock strike).

If the mic is OK, some people have reported reasonable results when using the Audyssey microphone with REW. Apparently it's quite linear.

Thanks. I am going to ask for a replacement mic today.

 

Do remember that you need to get the correct mic for your unit - their interchangeability is limited. This FAQ answer has the full skinny:

 

d)4.   Do I have to use the mic that came with my AVR or PrePro?

post #59998 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by bizwiz41 View Post

Please excuse a double posting between here and the receiver forum.

Does anyone know the model number of the Audyssey mic that came with the Integra DTR 6.8 receiver?

I do have an Audyssey ACM1 microphone, but I have no idea if it can be used with the Integra DTR 6.8

Thanks for your help

 

Was the original mic the one shaped like a hockey puck or the one shaped like the Eiffel Tower?  Those two are not interchangeable, but the ACM1s generally are. Check the FAQ link I just posted.

post #59999 of 70885

Wow - 60,000 posts in 2000 pages! What an amazingly durable thread this has been since it was started back in January 2007 by Soundlvr!

 

 

post #60000 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Was the original mic the one shaped like a hockey puck or the one shaped like the Eiffel Tower?  Those two are not interchangeable, but the ACM1s generally are. Check the FAQ link I just posted.
[/quote

To first clarify, I do not have the receiver & components yet. I'm thinking of purchasing a used model. To your question, the DTR 6.8 manual shows the "hockey puck", and some research shows that this model originally came with the "hockey puck" mic. The mic I have (the ACM1) is the "Eifel Tower" model.

I also (now) remember that my mic (ACM1) was during the "mislabeling" issue of Onkyo/Integra. So, I'm not 100% confident that it is an ACM1, it could be an ACM-1H.....

So, I'm thinking the Integra will require a completely different mic. Thanks for your quick reply!
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