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"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2002

post #60031 of 70910
raaj,

Is there any chance you or a housemate have been zapping the electronics with static electricity shocks? That can cause all sorts of strange temporary and permanent failures.
post #60032 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

raaj,

Is there any chance you or a housemate have been zapping the electronics with static electricity shocks? That can cause all sorts of strange temporary and permanent failures.

I told my mate playing Thor around sensitive electronics was a bad idea! tongue.gif
post #60033 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by raaj View Post

I told my mate playing Thor around sensitive electronics was a bad idea! tongue.gif

biggrin.gif

I am attacking everything with insane amounts of static electricity at the office... Nothing shown smoke yet!
post #60034 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

raaj,

Is there any chance you or a housemate have been zapping the electronics with static electricity shocks? That can cause all sorts of strange temporary and permanent failures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raaj View Post

I told my mate playing Thor around sensitive electronics was a bad idea! tongue.gif

@Selden Ball

Though my comment was tongue in cheek, I thank you for the very valid question. I was looking at something related to The Avengers, and I couldn't resist making that joke because of the coincidence. smile.gif

I cannot rule out the possibility of a static shock, given that I have carpet floors. I just got my loaner audyssey mic that came with a Denon 3313 receiver. I will try a calibration with that and see if that makes a difference.
post #60035 of 70910
Hey guys, I'm having some Audyssey setup issues, and was hoping someone might could tell me what I'm doing wrong.

I just got a new sub, and I'm getting some very poor results from Audyssey (MultiEQ). I've had this receiver for a year and a half or so (equipment is in my sig), and have used Audyssey a couple of different times, and got great results with no hassle. But I'm getting nothing but headaches this time around. It's doing a few different things that just seem to be plain wrong. There was a noticeable drop in SQ from the speakers compared to the previous calibration, and even compared to receiver defaults.

Here are the specific issues I'm experiencing:

1. Noticeable drop in SQ from speakers compared to the calibration I did a few months ago, and also in comparison to receiver factory defaults. Sound seems to have gotten the life sucked out of it. Mid-bass is non-existent and the mid-range sounds very dull.

2. Crossover for the mains and center channel are being set to 40hz. The mains might be capable in the right environment, but the center channel is only rated down to 60hz, and I really doubt it's capable. Not that it matters, because either way, they're not producing any mid-bass at all, even though they had a decent amount with the prior calibration. I set the crossover back to 80hz to let the sub handle it, but ->>

3. Audyssey lowers the sub channel -2dB, but also apparently boosts a narrow frequency range in the 30-40hz area, to the point of seeming more than twice as loud as it was, and completely drowning out the rest of the bass frequencies. With the receiver set to factory default, this sub gives me clean, punchy, deep bass, without any serious dips, After running Audyssey, all it can seem to do is play 1 note really loud, and with terrible SQ. It's extremely boomy and over-exaggerated and doesn't sound natural at all, and there is no mid-bass punch either. It basically just rumbles constantly.


I followed the Audyssey setup guide, and have gone over the faq, and I'm at a loss for what I'm doing wrong. I have the crossover on the sub disabled and the gain at about 1 o'clock. I've spent the last week trying to find a good location for it, and I currently have it in a spot that mostly sounds smooth and clean, and blends well with the speakers, so long as the receiver is on factory defaults. I've run Audyssey 3-4 different times this week, with the sub in 2 different locations, and got similar results each time. I make sure to reset the receiver to factory defaults before I run it, and I use all 6 measurement positions according to the guide on the Audyssey site. Dynamic Volume is off, and Dynamic EQ is on. The room layout hasn't changed any since the last time I calibrated either.

I'm fairly new to this, so I imagine I'm just missing something, or not understanding something, but I just don't see why I would get such bad results this time around when I had no problems before. Are the mic's pretty reliable? It doesn't seem like the mic itself could go bad without being physically damaged.

Help!
post #60036 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttnuagmada View Post

Hey guys, I'm having some Audyssey setup issues, and was hoping someone might could tell me what I'm doing wrong.

I just got a new sub, and I'm getting some very poor results from Audyssey (MultiEQ). I've had this receiver for a year and a half or so (equipment is in my sig), and have used Audyssey a couple of different times, and got great results with no hassle. But I'm getting nothing but headaches this time around. It's doing a few different things that just seem to be plain wrong. There was a noticeable drop in SQ from the speakers compared to the previous calibration, and even compared to receiver defaults.

Here are the specific issues I'm experiencing:

1. Noticeable drop in SQ from speakers compared to the calibration I did a few months ago, and also in comparison to receiver factory defaults. Sound seems to have gotten the life sucked out of it. Mid-bass is non-existent and the mid-range sounds very dull.

2. Crossover for the mains and center channel are being set to 40hz. The mains might be capable in the right environment, but the center channel is only rated down to 60hz, and I really doubt it's capable. Not that it matters, because either way, they're not producing any mid-bass at all, even though they had a decent amount with the prior calibration. I set the crossover back to 80hz to let the sub handle it, but ->>

3. Audyssey lowers the sub channel -2dB, but also apparently boosts a narrow frequency range in the 30-40hz area, to the point of seeming more than twice as loud as it was, and completely drowning out the rest of the bass frequencies. With the receiver set to factory default, this sub gives me clean, punchy, deep bass, without any serious dips, After running Audyssey, all it can seem to do is play 1 note really loud, and with terrible SQ. It's extremely boomy and over-exaggerated and doesn't sound natural at all, and there is no mid-bass punch either. It basically just rumbles constantly.


I followed the Audyssey setup guide, and have gone over the faq, and I'm at a loss for what I'm doing wrong. I have the crossover on the sub disabled and the gain at about 1 o'clock. I've spent the last week trying to find a good location for it, and I currently have it in a spot that mostly sounds smooth and clean, and blends well with the speakers, so long as the receiver is on factory defaults. I've run Audyssey 3-4 different times this week, with the sub in 2 different locations, and got similar results each time. I make sure to reset the receiver to factory defaults before I run it, and I use all 6 measurement positions according to the guide on the Audyssey site. Dynamic Volume is off, and Dynamic EQ is on. The room layout hasn't changed any since the last time I calibrated either.

I'm fairly new to this, so I imagine I'm just missing something, or not understanding something, but I just don't see why I would get such bad results this time around when I had no problems before. Are the mic's pretty reliable? It doesn't seem like the mic itself could go bad without being physically damaged.

Help!

 

Sorry to hear of the problems you are having. The one variable seems to be the new sub. You did the right thing in raising the LCR XOs to 80Hz. What make and model of sub are you now using? I assume from what you say that you followed the FAQ advice here:

 

f)3.    How do I set the controls on my subwoofer before running MultEQ?

 

... and that the resulting trims etc are all within spec? You are connecting the sub to the Sub preout on the AVR with a length of RCA-terminated interconnect, to the LFE input on the sub? The LPF on the sub is disabled or set to its maximum value?

 

Have you run Audyssey with the new sub in the same spot that the old sub was in?  Did you do a sub crawl to find the best location for the new sub?  If not, how did you do it?

 

If you can confirm the above, we can start troubleshooting this for you.

 

WRT to the mic - there is a possibility, from what you say above, that the mic is damaged. Mics can be damaged without showing any physical signs. One common cause of mic damage is static electricity - it is easy to discharge a good wallop of static into the mic, especially if your floor coverings contain any synthetic material and you have central heating on (and thus low humidity). Mics can also be damaged by excess heat during storage - did you have the very hot weather in your part of the States last summer?  And if so, where was the mic stored at the time (say it wasn't the attic!).

 

Before we suspect the mic, let's look at the other possible causes - but if you coud get your hands on an alternative mic of the correct type, it would be an easy check. Mic types are covered here:

 

d)4.   Do I have to use the mic that came with my AVR or PrePro?

post #60037 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Sorry to hear of the problems you are having. The one variable seems to be the new sub. You did the right thing in raising the LCR XOs to 80Hz. What make and model of sub are you now using? I assume from what you say that you followed the FAQ advice here:

f)3.    How do I set the controls on my subwoofer before running MultEQ?


... and that the resulting trims etc are all within spec? You are connecting the sub to the Sub preout on the AVR with a length of RCA-terminated interconnect, to the LFE input on the sub? The LPF on the sub is disabled or set to its maximum value?

Have you run Audyssey with the new sub in the same spot that the old sub was in?  Did you do a sub crawl to find the best location for the new sub?  If not, how did you do it?

If you can confirm the above, we can start troubleshooting this for you.

WRT to the mic - there is a possibility, from what you say above, that the mic is damaged. Mics can be damaged without showing any physical signs. One common cause of mic damage is static electricity - it is easy to discharge a good wallop of static into the mic, especially if your floor coverings contain any synthetic material and you have central heating on (and thus low humidity). Mics can also be damaged by excess heat during storage - did you have the very hot weather in your part of the States last summer?  And if so, where was the mic stored at the time (say it wasn't the attic!).

Before we suspect the mic, let's look at the other possible causes - but if you coud get your hands on an alternative mic of the correct type, it would be an easy check. Mic types are covered here:

d)4.   Do I have to use the mic that came with my AVR or PrePro?

Thanks for your response.

The sub is a PSA XS30. The crossover on the sub is set to the maximum/disabled. The gain is set to 1 o'clock, Audyssey sets the sub channel to -2 dB. I have the the LFE input on the sub connected to the AVR sub pre-out, using this cable.

I was not using a sub prior to getting this one. I have not had a chance to do a good sub crawl, but I have so far tried it out in 4 different locations, starting with the corners on the left side of the living area (there's an opening on the right side). I currently have it about 6 inches from the front wall between the front right speaker and the tv stand. With the receiver settings on factory default, I feel I'm getting good results from this location. The bass seems pretty smooth, without any bad dips that i've noticed. It also sounds very clean and accurate and produces very crisp mid-bass. It blends into the higher frequencies nicely and hits the really low stuff with authority. If I have time today or tomorrow, I'd still like to do a sub crawl though. I was definitely getting more output when I had it in a corner, but I noticed a couple of nulls. I'm hoping that Audyssey can help me out with that once I get it to work right.

The mic has been kept in a drawer in the dining area for the entire time I've had it, so I don't think that temperature has ever been a problem. I live in East Texas, where it's fairly humid. We run the heater maybe 3 months out of the year, and also have older hardwood floors. Prior to this week, I had handled the mic a total of twice, so I doubt I zapped it.

The mic wire is very long and thin, and although I don't remember doing anything that would have damaged it, I wonder if I could have done something to it while untangling it.
post #60038 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttnuagmada View Post

Thanks for your response.

The sub is a PSA XS30. The crossover on the sub is set to the maximum/disabled. The gain is set to 1 o'clock, Audyssey sets the sub channel to -2 dB. I have the the LFE input on the sub connected to the AVR sub pre-out, using this cable.

I was not using a sub prior to getting this one. I have not had a chance to do a good sub crawl, but I have so far tried it out in 4 different locations, starting with the corners on the left side of the living area (there's an opening on the right side). I currently have it about 6 inches from the front wall between the front right speaker and the tv stand. With the receiver settings on factory default, I feel I'm getting good results from this location. The bass seems pretty smooth, without any bad dips that i've noticed. It also sounds very clean and accurate and produces very crisp mid-bass. It blends into the higher frequencies nicely and hits the really low stuff with authority. If I have time today or tomorrow, I'd still like to do a sub crawl though. I was definitely getting more output when I had it in a corner, but I noticed a couple of nulls. I'm hoping that Audyssey can help me out with that once I get it to work right.

The mic has been kept in a drawer in the dining area for the entire time I've had it, so I don't think that temperature has ever been a problem. I live in East Texas, where it's fairly humid. We run the heater maybe 3 months out of the year, and also have older hardwood floors. Prior to this week, I had handled the mic a total of twice, so I doubt I zapped it.

The mic wire is very long and thin, and although I don't remember doing anything that would have damaged it, I wonder if I could have done something to it while untangling it.

 

OK - thanks. Serious sub, fairly simple set of controls. All connected up OK and probably in a reasonable location from what you say. Sounds good without Audyssey, sounds cr&p with Audyssey. OK...

 

Can't see any issues in your setup then and you have followed the Guide for running Audyssey - mic at ear height, pointing right up to the ceiling, standing on a tripod or stand, all Audyssey positions measured?

 

Hmmm. Nothing obvious comes to mind I am afraid. Which tends to make me think that the mic could be the problem. Fortunately they are cheap enough and Denon or Audyssey should be able to fit you out with a new one.

 

I'll continue to give it more thought though. And when the rest of America is fully awake and had its breakfast, I am sure others will chime in with any suggestions that could help.

 

It might be worth reading through the 101 linked in my sig just one more time to make sure you haven’t missed anything, but TBH it sounds as if you have the bases covered.

post #60039 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttnuagmada View Post

Hey guys, I'm having some Audyssey setup issues, and was hoping someone might could tell me what I'm doing wrong.

I just got a new sub, and I'm getting some very poor results from Audyssey (MultiEQ). I've had this receiver for a year and a half or so (equipment is in my sig), and have used Audyssey a couple of different times, and got great results with no hassle. But I'm getting nothing but headaches this time around. It's doing a few different things that just seem to be plain wrong. There was a noticeable drop in SQ from the speakers compared to the previous calibration, and even compared to receiver defaults.

Here are the specific issues I'm experiencing:

1. Noticeable drop in SQ from speakers compared to the calibration I did a few months ago, and also in comparison to receiver factory defaults. Sound seems to have gotten the life sucked out of it. Mid-bass is non-existent and the mid-range sounds very dull.

2. Crossover for the mains and center channel are being set to 40hz. The mains might be capable in the right environment, but the center channel is only rated down to 60hz, and I really doubt it's capable. Not that it matters, because either way, they're not producing any mid-bass at all, even though they had a decent amount with the prior calibration. I set the crossover back to 80hz to let the sub handle it, but ->>

3. Audyssey lowers the sub channel -2dB, but also apparently boosts a narrow frequency range in the 30-40hz area, to the point of seeming more than twice as loud as it was, and completely drowning out the rest of the bass frequencies. With the receiver set to factory default, this sub gives me clean, punchy, deep bass, without any serious dips, After running Audyssey, all it can seem to do is play 1 note really loud, and with terrible SQ. It's extremely boomy and over-exaggerated and doesn't sound natural at all, and there is no mid-bass punch either. It basically just rumbles constantly.


I followed the Audyssey setup guide, and have gone over the faq, and I'm at a loss for what I'm doing wrong. I have the crossover on the sub disabled and the gain at about 1 o'clock. I've spent the last week trying to find a good location for it, and I currently have it in a spot that mostly sounds smooth and clean, and blends well with the speakers, so long as the receiver is on factory defaults. I've run Audyssey 3-4 different times this week, with the sub in 2 different locations, and got similar results each time. I make sure to reset the receiver to factory defaults before I run it, and I use all 6 measurement positions according to the guide on the Audyssey site. Dynamic Volume is off, and Dynamic EQ is on. The room layout hasn't changed any since the last time I calibrated either.

I'm fairly new to this, so I imagine I'm just missing something, or not understanding something, but I just don't see why I would get such bad results this time around when I had no problems before. Are the mic's pretty reliable? It doesn't seem like the mic itself could go bad without being physically damaged.

Help!

Your experience is almost exactly the same as I am having. New sub added to an otherwise good sounding setup, and boom! Audyssey calibration produces a messed up SQ with all the symptoms you've described. Can't explain why entirely, but I've overcome this issue by using a loaner Audyssey mic from a Denon receiver (mine is Onkyo) and measured with the mic now at about 2 inches higher than ear level that was used in previous calibrations that gave me satisfactory sound. I am not entirely sure the sound is close to the balance and SQ that my components are capable of, but it is much more tolerable than the harsh, unbalanced sound I initially got by closely following audyssey recommendations. (Not all setups can follow all Audyssey best practices due to room layout peculiarities, and there might be some criteria triggering a skewed calibration like we've gotten here.) Try what I did and see if it improves the SQ. Post your observations here.
post #60040 of 70910
Thanks for the input guys. I'm going to try and get a replacement mic, and see if that does anything. Hopefully that's all it is.
post #60041 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttnuagmada View Post

Thanks for the input guys. I'm going to try and get a replacement mic, and see if that does anything. Hopefully that's all it is.

In the absence of any other suggestions, that would be my advice. It's a cheap enough option and could save you days or weeks of messing about with things. Could I ask you to report back to the thread pelase, or to PM me, with you experience once you have a replacement mic?  I can add this knowledge to the FAQ for the benefit of others, assuming the new mic fixes it. Thanks.

post #60042 of 70910
I just redid my Audyssey calibration (Denon 4310 + AS-EQ1), this time using the boom mic stand recommended in this thread, instead of a camera tripod. This dramatically improved the clarity of center channel dialogue and the impact of bass. I would not have believed this would have made that much of a difference!
post #60043 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

I just redid my Audyssey calibration (Denon 4310 + AS-EQ1), this time using the boom mic stand recommended in this thread, instead of a camera tripod. This dramatically improved the clarity of center channel dialogue and the impact of bass. I would not have believed this would have made that much of a difference!

 

Way to go. Would you mind if I add that as a quote from you in the FAQ?  I suspect that often people don't think it matters all that much.

post #60044 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

I just redid my Audyssey calibration (Denon 4310 + AS-EQ1), this time using the boom mic stand recommended in this thread, instead of a camera tripod. This dramatically improved the clarity of center channel dialogue and the impact of bass. I would not have believed this would have made that much of a difference!

Glad to see you happy pbarach. Meantime, care to expand a bit on "dramatic"? Did you manage to place the mic with surgical precision to the same places when measured with a tripod? Did you make any before (tripod)/ after (boom mic stand) measurements to back up your findings? It would be really interesting and instructive to see measured differences between tripod and mic stand on graphs. Should the difference be audible it should be measurable as well. Whaddaya think? smile.gif
post #60045 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Way to go. Would you mind if I add that as a quote from you in the FAQ?  I suspect that often people don't think it matters all that much.

Keith--Sure, go ahead and use it. It really did make a difference in the end result, compared to a camera tripod that had to sit on a couch. It was also much easier to move it around and keep the mic adjusted at the same height for the 12 listening positions I used with the AS-EQ1 and the eight with MultiEQ XT.
post #60046 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

I just redid my Audyssey calibration (Denon 4310 + AS-EQ1), this time using the boom mic stand recommended in this thread, instead of a camera tripod. This dramatically improved the clarity of center channel dialogue and the impact of bass. I would not have believed this would have made that much of a difference!

Glad to see you happy pbarach. Meantime, care to expand a bit on "dramatic"? Did you manage to place the mic with surgical precision to the same places when measured with a tripod? Did you make any before (tripod)/ after (boom mic stand) measurements to back up your findings? It would be really interesting and instructive to see measured differences between tripod and mic stand on graphs. Should the difference be audible it should be measurable as well. Whaddaya think? smile.gif

 

I think the main problem with using a tripod (even a very good one like my big Manfrotto) is that they are not designed to work over a couch. You always end up with one leg on the couch and two on the floor. People with small tripods often place them on the couch itself. It is always a kludge. Tripods are designed to stand on the ground and to hold a (possibly heavy) camera.

 

I can never understand the reluctance of people to buy a proper mic stand, designed for the job of holding a mic. They will spend thousands of dollars on AV gear and then hesitate to spend 20 bucks for the proper tool for the job of holding the mic!  

 

How much difference it makes to the measurements is always going to be a variable - it will depend on so many factors, as you suggest. But why make it more likely that you are NOT getting the best result by using the wrong tool for the job in the first place?  Also, many tripods are big and heavy, with a large head designed for holding a large camera. There is always the possibility, when using such a tripod,  that the thick legs can pick up airborne vibrations, or that the large head can cause unwanted reflections. Tripods for cameras - mic stands for mics. Seems obvious to me. Sure, I can put in a screw using a hammer - but will it give me the same result as using a screwdriver?  Not on your life. And I repeat - they cost 20 bucks!! That is a round of drinks in the UK - gone in 60 seconds :) 

post #60047 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Way to go. Would you mind if I add that as a quote from you in the FAQ?  I suspect that often people don't think it matters all that much.

Keith--Sure, go ahead and use it. It really did make a difference in the end result, compared to a camera tripod that had to sit on a couch. It was also much easier to move it around and keep the mic adjusted at the same height for the 12 listening positions I used with the AS-EQ1 and the eight with MultiEQ XT.

 

Thanks. I will add it now and credit you of course with the quote. Yes - the other benefit is that it is MUCH easier to use the boom stand and makes the measuring process quicker and more reliable.

post #60048 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Glad to see you happy pbarach. Meantime, care to expand a bit on "dramatic"? Did you manage to place the mic with surgical precision to the same places when measured with a tripod? Did you make any before (tripod)/ after (boom mic stand) measurements to back up your findings? It would be really interesting and instructive to see measured differences between tripod and mic stand on graphs. Should the difference be audible it should be measurable as well. Whaddaya think? smile.gif

There was no way to duplicate the tripod placements "with surgical precision," even on a second attempt to do the calibration with the camera tripod, because the tripod had to sit on a sofa that could not be squished "with surgical precision" every time. I don't have measurement equipment other than an Radio Shack SPL. It would be interesting to see graphs--but I can't imagine how you can duplicate the placement of one setup with the other to any degree of precision.

All I can tell you is that subjectively I feel the impact of bass drum "slams" in classical music on my chest now, and I didn't before. The details of multiple bass lines playing simultaneously (e.g., the Nonesuch recording of Gorecki Symphony No. 3) are much less muddled together.

There were some DVR-recorded TV shows where I needed subtitles to make out the dialogue before, but after the new calibration the words are crystal clear (and this is not sumply due to a level change in the center channel--Audyssey set the level correctly with either setup, and that I did confirm using an SPL meter and pink noise).

The boom mic stand was probably the smallest audio purchase I've ever made that resulted in such a noticeable difference in sound (and convenience).
post #60049 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Way to go. Would you mind if I add that as a quote from you in the FAQ?  I suspect that often people don't think it matters all that much.

Keith--Sure, go ahead and use it. It really did make a difference in the end result, compared to a camera tripod that had to sit on a couch. It was also much easier to move it around and keep the mic adjusted at the same height for the 12 listening positions I used with the AS-EQ1 and the eight with MultiEQ XT.

Added to FAQ, d)1.

post #60050 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Glad to see you happy pbarach. Meantime, care to expand a bit on "dramatic"? Did you manage to place the mic with surgical precision to the same places when measured with a tripod? Did you make any before (tripod)/ after (boom mic stand) measurements to back up your findings? It would be really interesting and instructive to see measured differences between tripod and mic stand on graphs. Should the difference be audible it should be measurable as well. Whaddaya think? smile.gif

There was no way to duplicate the tripod placements "with surgical precision," even on a second attempt to do the calibration with the camera tripod, because the tripod had to sit on a sofa that could not be squished "with surgical precision" every time. I don't have measurement equipment other than an Radio Shack SPL. It would be interesting to see graphs--but I can't imagine how you can duplicate the placement of one setup with the other to any degree of precision.

All I can tell you is that subjectively I feel the impact of bass drum "slams" in classical music on my chest now, and I didn't before. The details of multiple bass lines playing simultaneously (e.g., the Nonesuch recording of Gorecki Symphony No. 3) are much less muddled together.

There were some DVR-recorded TV shows where I needed subtitles to make out the dialogue before, but after the new calibration the words are crystal clear (and this is not sumply due to a level change in the center channel--Audyssey set the level correctly with either setup, and that I did confirm using an SPL meter and pink noise).

The boom mic stand was probably the smallest audio purchase I've ever made that resulted in such a noticeable difference in sound (and convenience).

 

Yes, all agreed. It is possible, but not easy, to replicate the measurement spots. But if you are hearing the differences you describe, that speaks for itself. It's always good to confirm things with independent measurements but not being able to do them doesn't invalidate your findings. It may have been that the vibrations picked up by the tripod were the main cause of the difference. I shall go back to the FAQ edit I just did and add that last sentence above too!

post #60051 of 70910
I was wondering if any audyssey receivers allowed for multiple calibration to be stored in memory and later chosen? Similar to the pioneer advanced MCACC. I have the Denon AVR-1713 and AFAIK you can only save one calibration at a time.
post #60052 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

There was no way to duplicate the tripod placements "with surgical precision," even on a second attempt to do the calibration with the camera tripod, because the tripod had to sit on a sofa that could not be squished "with surgical precision" every time. I don't have measurement equipment other than an Radio Shack SPL. It would be interesting to see graphs--but I can't imagine how you can duplicate the placement of one setup with the other to any degree of precision.

It may be important if one would want to make a controlled A/B test, but for every day use I agree with you it is something we don't need to "sweat on". smile.gif
Quote:
All I can tell you is that subjectively I feel the impact of bass drum "slams" in classical music on my chest now, and I didn't before. The details of multiple bass lines playing simultaneously (e.g., the Nonesuch recording of Gorecki Symphony No. 3) are much less muddled together.

Without doubt, I can understand than now you have better overall SQ in your room, my original question was why you attributed it to changing tripod to mic stand and especially by describing the difference as "dramatic". If you say "slightly noticable", or even "much better" that's OK with me. My emphasis is on the word "dramatic". eek.gif Many people are reading this thread, experienced ones and beginners. IMHO, saying that a tripod to mic stand makes "dramatic" differences is a bit of an overstatement. Meantime, accepting that there was a "dramatic" change for you I think this case may need further investigations till the real reason behind is revealed. Agree? smile.gif
Edited by mogorf - 2/24/13 at 8:10am
post #60053 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crotia View Post

I was wondering if any audyssey receivers allowed for multiple calibration to be stored in memory and later chosen? Similar to the pioneer advanced MCACC. I have the Denon AVR-1713 and AFAIK you can only save one calibration at a time.

 

Certainly no Onkyos and Integras have that feature, unfortunately.  You can save one calibration using the Store and Restore feature though.

 

 

Store and Recall settings - Onkyo/Integra
 
To STORE:
1. Push and hold Setup on the AVR (not the remote)
2. While still holding Setup, push Enter
3. Unit displays 'Setup store?"
4. Still holding Setup, push Enter again
5. Unit displays "Setup storing'
6. Unit then displays 'Complete'
All your settings are now stored.
 
To RECALL:
1. Push and hold Setup on the AVR
2. While still holding Setup, push Return
3. Unit displays 'Setup recall?'
4. Still holding Setup, push Return again
5. Unit displays 'Setup recalling'
6. Unit then displays 'Complete'
Unit then powers off into standby mode. Switch unit back on, your settings have been restored.
post #60054 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

There was no way to duplicate the tripod placements "with surgical precision," even on a second attempt to do the calibration with the camera tripod, because the tripod had to sit on a sofa that could not be squished "with surgical precision" every time. I don't have measurement equipment other than an Radio Shack SPL. It would be interesting to see graphs--but I can't imagine how you can duplicate the placement of one setup with the other to any degree of precision.

It may be important if one would want to make a controlled A/B test, but for every day use I agree with you it is something we don't need to "sweat on". smile.gif
Quote:
All I can tell you is that subjectively I feel the impact of bass drum "slams" in classical music on my chest now, and I didn't before. The details of multiple bass lines playing simultaneously (e.g., the Nonesuch recording of Gorecki Symphony No. 3) are much less muddled together.

Without doubt, I can understand than now you have better overall SQ in your room, my original question was why you attributed it to changing tripod to mic stand and especially by describing the difference as "dramatic". If you say "slightly noticable", or even "much better" that's OK with me. My emphasis is on the word "dramatic". eek.gif Many people are reading this thread, experienced ones and beginners. IMHO, saying that a tripod to mic stand makes "dramatic" differences is a bit of an overstatement. Meantime, accepting that there was a "dramatic" change for you I think this case may need further investigations till the real reason behind is revealed. Agree? smile.gif

 

The real reason might be the difference between the triopd and the mic stand of course. If you have both, why not do the measurements and tell us what you find?

post #60055 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crotia View Post

I was wondering if any audyssey receivers allowed for multiple calibration to be stored in memory and later chosen? Similar to the pioneer advanced MCACC. I have the Denon AVR-1713 and AFAIK you can only save one calibration at a time.

Denon AVR's have a configuration save feature that is invoked using the web interface.  This saves all AVR settings, including the Audyssey calibration.  The saved configuration is stored on your hard drive, and can be loaded at any time to restore the configuration.  You can save multiple configurations, which is particularly useful if you are experimenting with different speaker placements, room treatments, etc.

 

Edit:  Not sure all Denon AVR's have this feature, but I know the 4311 and 4520 have it.

post #60056 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crotia View Post

I was wondering if any audyssey receivers allowed for multiple calibration to be stored in memory and later chosen? Similar to the pioneer advanced MCACC. I have the Denon AVR-1713 and AFAIK you can only save one calibration at a time.

Denon AVR's have a configuration save feature that is invoked using the web interface.  This saves all AVR settings, including the Audyssey calibration.  The saved configuration is stored on your hard drive, and can be loaded at any time to restore the configuration.  You can save multiple configurations, which is particularly useful if you are experimenting with different speaker placements, room treatments, etc.

 

Edit:  Not sure all Denon AVR's have this feature, but I know the 4311 and 4520 have it.

It would be so useful if Onkyo had that too. All their network-enabled receivers have a web interface and it would be easy enough to enable a 'save config' feature, but sadly they haven't.

post #60057 of 70910
To
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Denon AVR's have a configuration save feature that is invoked using the web interface.  This saves all AVR settings, including the Audyssey calibration.  The saved configuration is stored on your hard drive, and can be loaded at any time to restore the configuration.  You can save multiple configurations, which is particularly useful if you are experimenting with different speaker placements, room treatments, etc.

Edit:  Not sure all Denon AVR's have this feature, but I know the 4311 and 4520 have it.
To clarify your point, the Denon 3313 and Marantz 5007 that I've used before have the feature to save the configuration file to a PC via the web interface. It is safe to assume that current lineup of Denon CI series receivers and the Marantz SR series of receivers will let you do this. I don't think there is an option to store multiple config profiles onboard the receiver, at least with the specific models I've used. FWIW.
post #60058 of 70910
I have a tripod but when I put it on the couch I can't get the mic low enough to ear height. I was thinking of getting a mic boom but where do I place the mic boom stand? The only place would be somewhere in front of the couch and then I can extend the boom to each seating location, but having the stand in front of the couch will be in the path of the l/c/r speakers. Is that ok?
post #60059 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

My original question was why you attributed it to changing tripod to mic stand and especially by describing the difference as "dramatic". If you say "slightly noticable", or even "much better" that's OK with me. My emphasis is on the word "dramatic". eek.gif Many people are reading this thread, experienced ones and beginners. IMHO, saying that a tripod to mic stand makes "dramatic" differences is a bit of an overstatement.

No, I would use the word "dramatic" to describe the difference I hear. On a subjective scale of 0 to 10, with 0 being no change and 10 being the largest change I can imagine, I would rate the improvement as a 7 or 8. Just the ability to understand dialogue on certain TV shows without resorting to subtitles is a dramatic difference.

Other people may have noticed less of an improvement when they went from a tripod to a mic stand. You can maintain, if you like, that I am exaggerating what I heard. That's possible. But it's also possible that for one or more reasons, stemming from how I did the previous calibration and/or from the change to a mic stand, I did get a dramatic improvement.

If all we're disagreeing on is an adjective, let's move on.
post #60060 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

My original question was why you attributed it to changing tripod to mic stand and especially by describing the difference as "dramatic". If you say "slightly noticable", or even "much better" that's OK with me. My emphasis is on the word "dramatic". eek.gif Many people are reading this thread, experienced ones and beginners. IMHO, saying that a tripod to mic stand makes "dramatic" differences is a bit of an overstatement.

No, I would use the word "dramatic" to describe the difference I hear. On a subjective scale of 0 to 10, with 0 being no change and 10 being the largest change I can imagine, I would rate the improvement as a 7 or 8. Just the ability to understand dialogue on certain TV shows without resorting to subtitles is a dramatic difference.

Other people may have noticed less of an improvement when they went from a tripod to a mic stand. You can maintain, if you like, that I am exaggerating what I heard. That's possible. But it's also possible that for one or more reasons, stemming from how I did the previous calibration and/or from the change to a mic stand, I did get a dramatic improvement.

If all we're disagreeing on is an adjective, let's move on.

 

FWIW, I'd say that going from having to turn subtitles on to be able to follow dialogue, to not having to turn them on and having no trouble following dialogue, is definitely a dramatic improvement! 

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