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"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2008

post #60211 of 70896
I have this AVR (Denon AVR-2808 EU) and my speakers (2x Focal Chorus 726s + 2x Dali Zensor 1, no center, no sub) for two months, so I had some time to experiment with Audyssey (various mic placements, etc).
And I think I should disable it. It feels like it destroys a lot from the low frequency resolution, like there is no any detail in the low range.
I checked the calibrated results with an XTZ Pro microphone, and it showed EQ=Off to be too bass-heavy and EQ=Flat to be much more flat, but I can't believe that bass should be like this.

My best guess is that the algorithms compensate for the correct sound pressure levels and room acoustic problems but the DSP does too much rounding/truncating and destroys the fine details on the road.

I wonder if a dedicated sub and/or some physical room treatment would make the Audyssey result better or I should go for an Onkyo 818 with a more powerful DSP anyway in case I want to use Audyssey at all.
But either of these will probably have to wait (money reasons I didn't see when I started shopping AVR+speakers), so I would be glad to hear any other suggestions I might missed.
Edited by janos666 - 2/28/13 at 3:50am
post #60212 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by raaj View Post

@CheyC,

I do that too while calibrating. I even take the batteries out of a wall clock in the living room so that its ticking does not pollute the audyssey measurements, and I go and stand in the same place in the room to avoid variables. smile.gif OCD !!

I see nothing out of the ordinary with your room, as you've posted elsewhere. Looks like carpeted floors, and cushy leather furniture, curtains ... standard fare. One best practice recommendation is to have your center channel installed such that its front extends a little further than the edge of your stand - so as to minimize unwanted distortion due to sharp edges of the tv stand. Check to make sure you have done that.

Other than that, I can't think of an environmental reason that might be causing your issues. When the speaker produces the Audyssey chirps, do you hear any ringing or echos of the chirps? (My sister's basement theater had horrible ringing to the calibration chirps due to the sparse furnishings, but adding thick curtains and adding some soft cushy sofas helped tame the echos/ringing and improved the sound.)

See if you could borrow an Audyssey mic from a friend or a store that carries either Onkyo, Denon or Marantz receivers and see if the calibration produces the same warnings. That might indicate whether your mic might have gotten damaged somehow.

So you' re saying the center speaker cover should essentially be hanging over the front of the TV stand? Interesting... I'll definitely give that a shot. As far as ringing/echoing, I was having that initially, but only with my center channel. I eventually found out this was due to the couch being pulled about 2 feet out from the back of the wall, leaving a gap behind my couch and this was causing the echo. I moved the couch just about flush with the wall last night, and that's when I finally got the calibration to work with no problems (and I heard much less ringing/echoing).

Like I said though, my xovers for the l/r fronts came back at 250 hz so when I went to re-do the calibration, under the exact same conditions, I got the center channel ambient noise issue again, after it re-chirped to the 3rd highest level. Note that the one time the calibration completed that the center channel did not re-chirp to the highest level but just did it once and moved on.

I may be getting paranoid, but I'm really starting to hope it's not something with my speakers as they've been moved around alot the last 6 years in moving trucks. From what I remember though, I did a frequency test on each speaker from the Disney WOW disc and it reproduced all frequencies available on every speaker, but maybe I should re-check that.

Thanks again for your help and suggestions, it's greatly appreciated!
post #60213 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by janos666 View Post

I have this AVR (Denon AVR-2808 EU) and my speakers (2x Focal Chorus 726s + 2x Dali Zensor 1, no center, no sub) for two months, so I had some time to experiment with Audyssey (various mic placements, etc).
And I think I should disable it. It feels like it destroys a lot from the low frequency resolution, like there is no any detail in the low range.
I checked the calibrated results with an XTZ Pro microphone, and it showed EQ=Off to be too bass-heavy and EQ=Flat to be much more flat, but I can't believe that bass should be like this.

Janos, I think Audyssey does a good job even with a 4 speaker configuration, but since your Denon 2808 does not have DynamicEQ on-board you are left without loudness compensation. This means at 0 dB calibrated level with film soundtracks you will be fine, but once you start to turn down the MV (Master Volume) bass will start to diminish.
Quote:
My best guess is that the algorithms compensate for the correct sound pressure levels and room acoustic problems but the DSP does too much rounding/truncating and destroys the fine details on the road.
Surely Audyssey compensates for anomalies in the bass department in your room, but you are lacking bass (and some treble) due to above described reasons.
Quote:
I wonder if a dedicated sub and/or some physical room treatment would make the Audyssey result better or I should go for an Onkyo 818 with a more powerful DSP anyway in case I want to use Audyssey at all.

A sub (and a center speaker) is surely the way to go, but an AVR with MultEQ + DynamicEQ will bring about "night and day" differences.
Quote:
But either of these will probably have to wait (money reasons I didn't see when I started shopping AVR+speakers), so I would be glad to hear any other suggestions I might missed.

Time is on your side. smile.gif
post #60214 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

^Right. I make the distinction simply because before Pro, I used one of my older mic stands, which has the traditional weighted disc base. It has small rubber pads under the base to isolate vibrations. Pretty hefty, used to haul those on gigs way back when.

 

I considered buying one of those but decided I wanted the extra stability of three supportive feet. That, of course, doesn't make it a camera tripod in any way ;) 

post #60215 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by raaj View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by CheYC View Post

I'm starting to get pretty frustrated... So my Audyssey passes no problem first time, in the initial position, and as soon as I move it the center channel gets high ambient noise warning every time I retry in EVERY other posotion. As I mentioned earlier, I thought it might be an echo issue, so I actually move my couch back up against the wall and re-do it. I notice my echo is gone and the Audyssey goes through the whole setup without a problem, I was pretty happy... It set my L/R front crossovers at 250 hz again, which is way too high, so I decide to re-run to see if it comes up again. As soon as I re-run it, center channel gets high ambient noise first time through and keeps getting it. I literally did nothing different and now it's not working. I'm at a loss at this point.

This might be an obvious and stupid question, but what kind of background noise, if any, do you have while running audyssey? Is there a fridge and/or A/C running, or is there ambient (everyday) noise? We might get used to the ambient background noise and our brain learns to tune out such noise, but the audyssey mic hears everything. If you have audible noise like road noise, any kind/level of conversations during calibration, etc., might trigger warnings about ambient noise. It might also be possible that your calibration mic might have gotten damaged somehow. Give us more details about your room (layout, furnishings, etc.) and also the ambient conditions during measurement. Then we can troubleshoot further.

 

Ambient noise should not be an issue. If ambient noise is too high, audyssey issues a warning and repeats the measurement at a louder signal level. It does three times before it gives up. So even if ambient noise is higher than typical, Audyssey takes it into account. If the calibration runs, then it is a successful calibration. Full info in the FAQ:

 

b)2.   Why is Audyssey reporting 'Ambient Noise Too High'?

post #60216 of 70896
In using mismatched subs will Audyssey calibrate the superior sub to the level of the inferior sub with any Audyssey levels or just the XT32?
post #60217 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by asere View Post

In using mismatched subs will Audyssey calibrate the superior sub to the level of the inferior sub with any Audyssey levels or just the XT32?

 

XT32 with SubEQ is the only version of Audyssey MultEQ that sets levels and delays independently and then EQs the dual subs as a pair.  So the answer to your question is "just XT32".

post #60218 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by CheYC View Post

So you' re saying the center speaker cover should essentially be hanging over the front of the TV stand? Interesting... I'll definitely give that a shot. As far as ringing/echoing, I was having that initially, but only with my center channel. I eventually found out this was due to the couch being pulled about 2 feet out from the back of the wall, leaving a gap behind my couch and this was causing the echo. I moved the couch just about flush with the wall last night, and that's when I finally got the calibration to work with no problems (and I heard much less ringing/echoing).

Like I said though, my xovers for the l/r fronts came back at 250 hz so when I went to re-do the calibration, under the exact same conditions, I got the center channel ambient noise issue again, after it re-chirped to the 3rd highest level. Note that the one time the calibration completed that the center channel did not re-chirp to the highest level but just did it once and moved on.

I may be getting paranoid, but I'm really starting to hope it's not something with my speakers as they've been moved around alot the last 6 years in moving trucks. From what I remember though, I did a frequency test on each speaker from the Disney WOW disc and it reproduced all frequencies available on every speaker, but maybe I should re-check that.

Thanks again for your help and suggestions, it's greatly appreciated!

Looking at the specs of your JBL speakers, it looks like a crossover setting of 250Hz indicates two possibilities I could think of.

One: there might be a room acoustics issue (echos, even the ones inaudible to you after you moved the couch) that Audyssey is moving the crossover higher to obtain a flat overall response between all the speakers (front, center and surround). This is why Audyssey might be freaking out giving you ambient noise warnings.

Two: Your Audyssey mic might be damaged causing false warnings and/or too high a crossover as a result. See if you can borrow a replacement Audyssey mic from another Onkyo/Denon/Marantz, and see if you get the same warnings in this setup.

The above assumes that there is no issue with your speakers' performance. If you still have problems with a replacement mic, it might be something with your acoustic environment. Have you had the same setup/environment prior to Audyssey calibration and if so, how does the Audyssey output compare to your previous experience?

Also, tell us how you are measuring for Audyssey. Placement of the mic relative to your listening positions and the room layout, tripod/mic stand used, speaker placement relative to the room, etc.? Some issues might be solved by better measurement positions and/or speaker position changes.
post #60219 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by raaj View Post

Looking at the specs of your JBL speakers, it looks like a crossover setting of 250Hz indicates two possibilities I could think of.

One: there might be a room acoustics issue (echos, even the ones inaudible to you after you moved the couch) that Audyssey is moving the crossover higher to obtain a flat overall response between all the speakers (front, center and surround). This is why Audyssey might be freaking out giving you ambient noise warnings.

Two: Your Audyssey mic might be damaged causing false warnings and/or too high a crossover as a result. See if you can borrow a replacement Audyssey mic from another Onkyo/Denon/Marantz, and see if you get the same warnings in this setup.

The above assumes that there is no issue with your speakers' performance. If you still have problems with a replacement mic, it might be something with your acoustic environment. Have you had the same setup/environment prior to Audyssey calibration and if so, how does the Audyssey output compare to your previous experience?

Also, tell us how you are measuring for Audyssey. Placement of the mic relative to your listening positions and the room layout, tripod/mic stand used, speaker placement relative to the room, etc.? Some issues might be solved by better measurement positions and/or speaker position changes.

My setup has been pretty much the same for a while now. With my old receiver I just set up using a tape measure for distances and an SPL meter for speaker levels... So it's hard to compare to that, since it was done "old school." No dynamic EQ and stuff to worry about. My mic is on this tripod: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Targus-42-8-Section-Tripod/9722062

My initial measurement position is my seating position, right in front of the center speaker (about 7.5 feet away) and equidistant from each L/R front (about 8 feet away), with two legs of the tripod on the couch and the mic at ear level, with the wall behind it about 2 feet away. Again, it almost always passes in this position. Before I moved the couch it would re-chirp to the 3rd/highest level before passing it, and after I moved the couch, it just chirped once before passing. Next I move it about 1 1/2 feet to my left and the center will fail... same will happen if I move it to the right. It will also re-chirp to the 3rd level despite it only going to the first level on my initial position.

I'm really confused why it went so smoothly just that one time but has not every other time, and my failures always only come on the center channel. The crossover issue is definitely bothering me too, since I don't want to lower the suggested xover and throw off my DynamicEQ. The way I'm using it now, my old receiver sounded better frown.gif

I really need to track down a new mic, but don't really know anyone that has one, maybe I'll just buy one off ebay as much as I don't want to.
post #60220 of 70896
Why would audyssey set all my speakers to -12?

I've had my onkyo tx-nr3009 for about a month now. After running xt32 for the first time I was very pleased with the results. Much better then my pio elite with MCACC. I remember checking speaker levels manually and just moving on. It didn't dawn on me until this morning that they were set to -12. I double checked and they are all set to -12. What would make this happen, and what kind of impact would it have on sound? Am I missing some of the dynamic range? It sounds good but I don't want to be missing anything. My main speakers are klipsch RF-83's that are 100db sensitivity. Center RC-62 98db, and surrounds RS-52 95db. I have the mains hooked up to a pair of emotiva XPA 1 Mono blocks, the center and surrounds hooked up to a emotiva XPA 3. My MLP is about 11' from the speakers. Could the gain structure of the amps combined with the high sensitivity of the speakers make this happen?

Also it has the speakers set to 6 ohm, but they are 8 ohm speakers. It only gives me the option of 4 or 6 ohm. Does this even matter since I am using it as a pre/pro?

Any feed back would be greatly appreciated.
post #60221 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Hey Selden, even though Wryker used not a single emoticon I still think he was just kidding with his post! smile.gif

Wryker?

As regagrds measurements with different support techniques I have also suggested this to volunteers a couple of posts before, but nobody checked-in on the case so far. Let's see. smile.gif

Nope. Not kidding! I don't have a mic stand and I've had Audyssey on my three (or four?) prior Denon's and now XT32 on my Onkyo. I've read the set up guide etc and decided since the mic needs to be at the listening position why not sit in my seats with the mic on my head and slouch down enough so the mic is RIGHT at where my ear level is?! I figured my 'body' is going to be in that chair anyways so why not have it calibrate the sound with the body in that chair? It's just my lady and I 99% of the time in the Man Cave and >50% of the time I'm watching stuff by myself. I started using the pillow since I was tired of slouching. I sometimes still put it on my head when I measure the points in front of the three seats.
OH...and.........cool.gif
post #60222 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekingNirvana View Post

Why would audyssey set all my speakers to -12?

I've had my onkyo tx-nr3009 for about a month now. After running xt32 for the first time I was very pleased with the results. Much better then my pio elite with MCACC. I remember checking speaker levels manually and just moving on. It didn't dawn on me until this morning that they were set to -12. I double checked and they are all set to -12. What would make this happen, and what kind of impact would it have on sound? Am I missing some of the dynamic range? It sounds good but I don't want to be missing anything. My main speakers are klipsch RF-83's that are 100db sensitivity. Center RC-62 98db, and surrounds RS-52 95db. I have the mains hooked up to a pair of emotiva XPA 1 Mono blocks, the center and surrounds hooked up to a emotiva XPA 3. My MLP is about 11' from the speakers. Could the gain structure of the amps combined with the high sensitivity of the speakers make this happen?

Also it has the speakers set to 6 ohm, but they are 8 ohm speakers. It only gives me the option of 4 or 6 ohm. Does this even matter since I am using it as a pre/pro?

Any feed back would be greatly appreciated.

 

Klipsch speakers are very efficient, and others have reported issues similar to yours.  The solution recommended by some is to install a signal attenuator to lower the sound level (I believe there are 6dB and 12dB models).  The problem with leaving the trims "maxed out" is that you don't know whether Audyssey needed more adjustment and just ran out of room.  Search this thread for "attenuator".

 

Audyssey doesn't set speakers to 6 Ohm or 8 Ohm.  This must be a setting in your AVR.

post #60223 of 70896
Just to add to my above comment. I've always assumed that it didn't matter which set of posts I used on my speakers (it's a bi-wiring setup), whether I use the top set or the bottom set, does this matter? I may have some of my speakers wired in the top and some in the bottom, could this make any difference? I guess at the very least I should be consistent...
post #60224 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by CheYC View Post

Just to add to my above comment. I've always assumed that it didn't matter which set of posts I used on my speakers (it's a bi-wiring setup), whether I use the top set or the bottom set, does this matter? I may have some of my speakers wired in the top and some in the bottom, could this make any difference? I guess at the very least I should be consistent...

It doesn't matter which posts you use so long as the jumpers that come with the speakers are still installed between the high-frequency binding posts and the woofer binding posts.

Getting a crossover frequency of 250 Hz suggests that the speakers' woofers are actually disconnected. Double check the speakers' jumpers.
post #60225 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekingNirvana View Post

Why would audyssey set all my speakers to -12?


I've had my onkyo tx-nr3009 for about a month now. After running xt32 for the first time I was very pleased with the results. Much better then my pio elite with MCACC. I remember checking speaker levels manually and just moving on. It didn't dawn on me until this morning that they were set to -12. I double checked and they are all set to -12. What would make this happen, and what kind of impact would it have on sound? Am I missing some of the dynamic range? It sounds good but I don't want to be missing anything. My main speakers are klipsch RF-83's that are 100db sensitivity. Center RC-62 98db, and surrounds RS-52 95db. I have the mains hooked up to a pair of emotiva XPA 1 Mono blocks, the center and surrounds hooked up to a emotiva XPA 3. My MLP is about 11' from the speakers. Could the gain structure of the amps combined with the high sensitivity of the speakers make this happen?


Also it has the speakers set to 6 ohm, but they are 8 ohm speakers. It only gives me the option of 4 or 6 ohm. Does this even matter since I am using it as a pre/pro?


Any feed back would be greatly appreciated.

Klipsch speakers are very efficient, and others have reported issues similar to yours.  The solution recommended by some is to install a signal attenuator to lower the sound level (I believe there are 6dB and 12dB models).  The problem with leaving the trims "maxed out" is that you don't know whether Audyssey needed more adjustment and just ran out of room.  Search this thread for "attenuator".

There is also the alternate solution of using an SPL meter to manually rebalance the speakers at a higher level (e.g. 80dB instead of 75dB) and then using the reference level offset to make sure Dyn EQ isn't overboosting.
post #60226 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

It doesn't matter which posts you use so long as the jumpers that come with the speakers are still installed between the high-frequency binding posts and the woofer binding posts.

Getting a crossover frequency of 250 Hz suggests that the speakers' woofers are actually disconnected. Double check the speakers' jumpers.

This could very will be.... I may have actually lost a few. Anyplace to get replacement's?
post #60227 of 70896
Currently have Onkyo SR605. It is powering Paradigm studio 60/ 590 v5.

Sounds great, but dialogue a little low sometimes. I have a harsh room (full glass wall behind seating area, wood floors, glass coffee table) and none of this is going to change. It is not a dedicated HT room, so I am not willing to completely change the decor.

Wondering if upgrading receiver to something with much better Audyssey will provide noticeable improvement. looking at Onkyo NR709, which has MutliEQ XT. the SR605 only has 2Q.

As an aside the NR709 also has preouts, which I am also interested in for future use.

thanks
B
post #60228 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekingNirvana View Post

Why would audyssey set all my speakers to -12?

I've had my onkyo tx-nr3009 for about a month now. After running xt32 for the first time I was very pleased with the results. Much better then my pio elite with MCACC. I remember checking speaker levels manually and just moving on. It didn't dawn on me until this morning that they were set to -12. I double checked and they are all set to -12. What would make this happen, and what kind of impact would it have on sound? Am I missing some of the dynamic range? It sounds good but I don't want to be missing anything. My main speakers are klipsch RF-83's that are 100db sensitivity. Center RC-62 98db, and surrounds RS-52 95db. I have the mains hooked up to a pair of emotiva XPA 1 Mono blocks, the center and surrounds hooked up to a emotiva XPA 3. My MLP is about 11' from the speakers. Could the gain structure of the amps combined with the high sensitivity of the speakers make this happen?

Also it has the speakers set to 6 ohm, but they are 8 ohm speakers. It only gives me the option of 4 or 6 ohm. Does this even matter since I am using it as a pre/pro?

Any feed back would be greatly appreciated.

 

Jerry has given you a thorough reply - you might care to read this FAQ answer for more background - also in this answer there is a link to suitable attenuators as mentioned by Jerry. I'd get five 6dB attenuators and plug them in between your prepro and XPA-3/XPA-1s. Then run Audyssey again.

 

e)6.   What do I do if my trim levels are at the limits of their adjustment ('maxed out')?

 

6 ohm is the best setting.

post #60229 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by CheYC View Post


This could very will be.... I may have actually lost a few. Anyplace to get replacement's?

 

No need to look for replacements.  All you need is signal continuity between the two sets of posts, which can easily be accomplished by connecting the posts with a short piece of wire.  If you have some speaker wire, that would be fine.

post #60230 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by CheYC View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

It doesn't matter which posts you use so long as the jumpers that come with the speakers are still installed between the high-frequency binding posts and the woofer binding posts.

Getting a crossover frequency of 250 Hz suggests that the speakers' woofers are actually disconnected. Double check the speakers' jumpers.

This could very will be.... I may have actually lost a few. Anyplace to get replacement's?

Use a short length (say 4-6 inches) of speaker wire with banana plugs on each end as jumpers. 

 

Jerry beat me to it... :)

post #60231 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purpose View Post

Currently have Onkyo SR605. It is powering Paradigm studio 60/ 590 v5.

Sounds great, but dialogue a little low sometimes. I have a harsh room (full glass wall behind seating area, wood floors, glass coffee table) and none of this is going to change. It is not a dedicated HT room, so I am not willing to completely change the decor.

Wondering if upgrading receiver to something with much better Audyssey will provide noticeable improvement. looking at Onkyo NR709, which has MutliEQ XT. the SR605 only has 2Q.

As an aside the NR709 also has preouts, which I am also interested in for future use.

thanks
B

 

Without changing much, you could add draperies that, when closed, would be fairly effective high frequency absorbers.  Or would that also be changing the room too much?

 

HST, any upgrade to a better level of Audyssey will likely result in improvements.  Will it completely resolve issues in a highly reflective room?  Probably not, at least not as well as some type of absorbion treatment.

post #60232 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Without changing much, you could add draperies that, when closed, would be fairly effective high frequency absorbers.  Or would that also be changing the room too much?

HST, any upgrade to a better level of Audyssey will likely result in improvements.  Will it completely resolve issues in a highly reflective room?  Probably not, at least not as well as some type of absorbion treatment.

Thanks, we are going to put some roller shades in as the reflections and heat during the day can be a bit brutal, but they will likely not be down all the time.
In terms of decor I was more referring to full carpet, or getting rid of coffee table. Neither is likely, unless our upcoming little one makes the coffee table seem too hazardous (which may well happen). As an aside, that would be a sad day after all the effort that went into fabricating that table.

Not sure I want to reach all the way to XT32, especially when I can get the 709 refurbed from A4L for $400. Is it that great of a leap in terms of performance?
post #60233 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekingNirvana View Post

Why would audyssey set all my speakers to -12?


I've had my onkyo tx-nr3009 for about a month now. After running xt32 for the first time I was very pleased with the results. Much better then my pio elite with MCACC. I remember checking speaker levels manually and just moving on. It didn't dawn on me until this morning that they were set to -12. I double checked and they are all set to -12. What would make this happen, and what kind of impact would it have on sound? Am I missing some of the dynamic range? It sounds good but I don't want to be missing anything. My main speakers are klipsch RF-83's that are 100db sensitivity. Center RC-62 98db, and surrounds RS-52 95db. I have the mains hooked up to a pair of emotiva XPA 1 Mono blocks, the center and surrounds hooked up to a emotiva XPA 3. My MLP is about 11' from the speakers. Could the gain structure of the amps combined with the high sensitivity of the speakers make this happen?


Also it has the speakers set to 6 ohm, but they are 8 ohm speakers. It only gives me the option of 4 or 6 ohm. Does this even matter since I am using it as a pre/pro?


Any feed back would be greatly appreciated.

Jerry has given you a thorough reply - you might care to read this FAQ answer for more background - also in this answer there is a link to suitable attenuators as mentioned by Jerry. I'd get five 6dB attenuators and plug them in between your prepro and XPA-3/XPA-1s. Then run Audyssey again.

e)6.   What do I do if my trim levels are at the limits of their adjustment ('maxed out')?


6 ohm is the best setting.

I think it might be worth addressing the alternate solution (rebalancing the speakers manually with an SPL meter) I discussed above in the FAQ. AFAIK the attenuators are only available for RCA connections (i.e., if you are using an external amp). For those who don't have an external amp, I am not aware of any speaker level attenuators (although they could exist).

But most have access to an SPL meter, and simply rebalancing the levels to a higher threshold such that the channel trims are not maxed should work just as well, as long as you are aware of the impact it has on Dyn EQ (changing effective ref level) and how to compensate for that.
post #60234 of 70896
Thanks for the replies......would it be better to get 12db attenuators instead? If I'm -12 now and I put in 12db that would get me closer to 0 right?

Can I use these on my subs as well? Right now my sub gains are 1 and 5 out of 100. That's with the trim at -0.5. I would like to get my subs gain a little higher to be in the "sweet spot".
post #60235 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purpose View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Without changing much, you could add draperies that, when closed, would be fairly effective high frequency absorbers.  Or would that also be changing the room too much?

HST, any upgrade to a better level of Audyssey will likely result in improvements.  Will it completely resolve issues in a highly reflective room?  Probably not, at least not as well as some type of absorbion treatment.

Thanks, we are going to put some roller shades in as the reflections and heat during the day can be a bit brutal, but they will likely not be down all the time.
In terms of decor I was more referring to full carpet, or getting rid of coffee table. Neither is likely, unless our upcoming little one makes the coffee table seem too hazardous (which may well happen). As an aside, that would be a sad day after all the effort that went into fabricating that table.

Not sure I want to reach all the way to XT32, especially when I can get the 709 refurbed from A4L for $400. Is it that great of a leap in terms of performance?

I can tell you from personal experience that a change from regular MultEQ to XT made a noticeable improvement in dialogue clarity in my setup. XT32 would be even better of course but even XT will be a sizeable jump from 2EQ.

That said, even if you can't do formal treatments, there could be other issues to address in the room. Curtains or other "soft" additions will help deaden the room a bit, as suggested already. One thing that hasn't come up would be looking at the physical position of your center channel. Is it on top of a console? In a shelf? Aimed at your ears? Simply optimizing the CC position and then re-running Audyssey may yield improvements without upgrading the receiver.

Although again I do think a receiver upgrade will be worth your while, not just for the better Audyssey and other feature additions that you would get, but also because that old 605 doesn't even have Dynamic EQ / Volume, two technologies which could help with dialogue clarity absent the changes in acoustics or room correction.
post #60236 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I can tell you from personal experience that a change from regular MultEQ to XT made a noticeable improvement in dialogue clarity in my setup. XT32 would be even better of course but even XT will be a sizeable jump from 2EQ.

That said, even if you can't do formal treatments, there could be other issues to address in the room. Curtains or other "soft" additions will help deaden the room a bit, as suggested already. One thing that hasn't come up would be looking at the physical position of your center channel. Is it on top of a console? In a shelf? Aimed at your ears? Simply optimizing the CC position and then re-running Audyssey may yield improvements without upgrading the receiver.

Although again I do think a receiver upgrade will be worth your while, not just for the better Audyssey and other feature additions that you would get, but also because that old 605 doesn't even have Dynamic EQ / Volume, two technologies which could help with dialogue clarity absent the changes in acoustics or room correction.

Thanks, hadnt even considered those features. Truth be told, had no Idea what they were. eek.gif Good to know. Seems like I will be placing an order. Now to see if I can catch one of the absurd deals floating around on the Onkyo site from time to time.
post #60237 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wryker View Post

Nope. Not kidding! I don't have a mic stand... I've read the set up guide etc and decided since the mic needs to be at the listening position why not sit in my seats with the mic on my head and slouch down enough so the mic is RIGHT at where my ear level is?! 

 

You're 31days early ;)

post #60238 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekingNirvana View Post

Thanks for the replies......would it be better to get 12db attenuators instead? If I'm -12 now and I put in 12db that would get me closer to 0 right?

Can I use these on my subs as well? Right now my sub gains are 1 and 5 out of 100. That's with the trim at -0.5. I would like to get my subs gain a little higher to be in the "sweet spot".

 

12dB attenuators would be fine.

 

WRT to subs - if your trim is -0.5 it's near as damn perfect. Why do you want to change that?  You're not losing anything from your subs if the gain is set low - it's a gain control remember not a volume control. It just means the sub can deliver its full output with a smaller voltage input. I'd leave the sub where it is TBH.

post #60239 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Use a short length (say 4-6 inches) of speaker wire with banana plugs on each end as jumpers. 

Jerry beat me to it... smile.gif

Thanks so much! I'm excited now to get home and see if this was a problem or "the" problem. I'm assuming I dont need the banana plugs right? Bare wire would be fine?
post #60240 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by CheYC View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Use a short length (say 4-6 inches) of speaker wire with banana plugs on each end as jumpers. 

Jerry beat me to it... smile.gif

Thanks so much! I'm excited now to get home and see if this was a problem or "the" problem. I'm assuming I dont need the banana plugs right? Bare wire would be fine?

 

Bare wire would be fine but make sure you don't get any strands accidentally touching. The banana plugs just make for a slightly neater and easier to use solution that's all. 

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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › "Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779)