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"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2043

post #61261 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Ahh, good point irt the dual sub outs. But here's the thing: that's so SubEQHT can measure the level and distance of each sub and adjust accordingly. Then XT32 EQs them firing simultaneously. There has been discussion here about an Onkyo AVR model with XT32 but without SubEQHT. The advice has been that if your subs are equidistant from MLP, are identical and have the sub vol controls set the same, SubEQHT is really just a convenience. If that applies to you, you are free to use a single sub out and run it to the SMS if you want to play with it to tweak the bass. Also, in your case, if the SMS allows distance and trim individual settings those restrictiions wouldn't even apply.

What I'd do is run XT32 the usual way (no SMS) and listen to the result. Chances are it'll be pretty darn good.

If I thought the bass needed further tweaks, I'd use a measurement system like OmniMic, REW, XTZ, etc to get a more objective view of what's going on in the room. Then I'd come back and ask for advice on what might work. IIRC some folks are getting smoother low freq graphs by simply tweaking distance, others have been using PEQ. So you could consider playing with the SMS PEQ. It's YMMV-whether the PEQ will help really depends on your room and current sub placements and how well XT32 can EQ it on its own.

Excellent advise from SoM, as always. smile.gif

On a second note, when you arrive to the conclusion that you need to take measurements with any of the above mentioned software it's always recommended to take multiple mic position scans and average them coz 1 mic position in the audio world won't tell you the "truth". A mic always "hears" differently than our ears, the results of 1 measurement may thus be easily misleading. You may end up with tweaks that look very nice on a single graph, yet have nothing to do with real world results. It's not just Audyssey that requires multiple mic position measurements, but other Room Correction systems work just the same, so for best results it worth to follow these principles.

Hope this helps. smile.gif

 

If you only care about one seat, as I do, for example, then using the mic for REW measurements located at just the MLP is fine. Many (most?) of those who use REW do it this way, after using several Audyssey mic positions to set the system up as well as Audyssey is capable of doing so. So I don't think it is "always recommended to take multiple mic positions" when using REW (but it definitely is when using Audyssey).

 

I have also found that using REW and making adjustments based on measurements from the MLP only has also benefited the rest of the room in general - eg with sub placement, sub distance/delay tweak for optimisation of the XO frequency area (which Audyssey seems universally to get wrong) and so on. Have you not also found the same when using REW and measuring your post-Audyssey results and then optimising the system based on those REW results?  Or do you always use several mic positions and average them?

post #61262 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by enthusiast8 View Post

Have a few questions on mic placement, which I couldnt find specifically in the FAQ or Guide

1) According to Audyssey approximate distance from the first measurement position is 2 feet in any direction.

> But if the main listening position has only 1 (or 2 seats), 2 feet away would place the mic in a position where there is no seat for the other 7 mic positions. In that situation, does the measurement still need to be taken in all the 8 positions with a seperating distance of 2 feet?
No

or can this reduced to like 1 feet?
Yes

2) For position 7 and 8 from this picture

> Should the mic be positioned on the back rest of the main listening seat at ear height?
No. Use a tripod or better yet a mic stand and boom, don't place mic directly directly on furniture. It is recommended to keep the mic at least 10" from potentially reflective surfaces like seat backs.

> OR Should the mic position be behind the main listening seat at ear height? Again, cant get 2 feet distance between 7 and 8, if going by the picture... if the main listening position seat is up against (I know its bad) the back wall, or pretty close (less than a feet) away from the back wall (due to room constraints), would it be any better to use positions 7 and 8 (mic on the seat back rest), rather than the diagonal intersection points of the squares made by positions 1,3,4,5 and 1,2,5,6, because according to the Guide :

It seems you don't have the space so don't measure behind. You could post some pics if you'd like more suggestions.
You may need to try a few different mic placement patterns to hear what's best for you. The illustrations are meant to be suggestions, not precise layouts. I had to move my MLP away from the back wall to get better SQ. I prefer a close grouping of positions within a 3' radius of MLP and I ignore all other actual seating positions. Though valuable, Audyssey can only do so much with some room layouts.
post #61263 of 70896
^ Thank you.

1.Even when using a mic stand/tripod where exactly should the mic be positioned for 7 and 8 ? Above the seat back?

2.Going by how Audyssey recommends taking measurements for positions 2 and 3 and then the others, there seems to be a directional order in which each successive measurement needs to be taken. And for this reason, iam thinking i shouldnt be using just any pattern around mlp. Any thoughts on why audyssey suggests positions 2 and 3 and others in that particular order only?
post #61264 of 70896
^Seatbacks are tricky. I chopped mine down to get it out of the way. If it is a fairly low seatback you may be able to measure over it-if, when you are 10" away from it, the mic is no more than a few inches above seated ear height and you are >1' away from the wall, you could go ahead and do a mic position there. If not, just use positions further forward. Don't sweat it, there is no order to the mic positions, except #1=MLP seated ear height.
post #61265 of 70896
Hi,

Is there a writeup somewhere so that I might learn a bit more of what the Audyssey EQ Check graphs represent? Is this what Audyssey measures and attempts to correct, or post-correction? What is the correlation between graphs for Audyssey and Audyssey Flat?

The next step in my journey is to spend time doing room measurements and exploring room correction. For now I'm just wondering what I'm seeing from the receiver's perspective.

Thanks in advance.
post #61266 of 70896
Any recommendations on inexpensive mic stands?
post #61267 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by kma100 View Post

Any recommendations on inexpensive mic stands?

 

There's a recommendation and link in this FAQ answer:

 

d)1.   Do I really need to put the Audyssey mic on a tripod or stand?

post #61268 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

Hi,

Is there a writeup somewhere so that I might learn a bit more of what the Audyssey EQ Check graphs represent? Is this what Audyssey measures and attempts to correct, or post-correction? What is the correlation between graphs for Audyssey and Audyssey Flat?

The next step in my journey is to spend time doing room measurements and exploring room correction. For now I'm just wondering what I'm seeing from the receiver's perspective.

Thanks in advance.

try the FAQ linked on page one of this thread. The display is a very very crude approximation of the Audyssey corrections. Essentially meaningless (Edit: It looks like the Denon 4311 uses a 1/3 octave display and maybe all XT32 equipped devices do,. That's getting closer to adequate granularity to reveal meaningful information. For a visual comparison of the 1/3 octave versus older display, see this post http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/34590#post_19817370 . . . ..

The Audyssey curve has a slight treble rolloff. Flat does not have the slight treble rolloff.

FAQ is your best bet. THe setup guide, also available on the first post, is also chock full of valuable info.
Edited by JHAz - 4/4/13 at 8:46am
post #61269 of 70896
Yeah, the graphs are the *corrections* so in theory the measured response would be the approximate inverse of that graph. But as noted above they are very crude graphs, so I wouldn't put too much stock in them (especially below the measured crossover point).
post #61270 of 70896
Thanks to you both. Apologies for not re-reading the FAQ, it's been awhile since I've needed it and I didn't think to look back.

Yes, it's the crossover point and below that has me most perplexed. I think I'll just skip it and go straight to REW.

Cheers.
post #61271 of 70896
I just got 2 identical SVS subwoofers and I have the Onkyo 809 receiver (which has the XT version of Audyssey). After reading the Audyssey 101 post (relevant section pasted below) and the Onkyo 809 owners manual I'm not sure how I should connect them before starting the calibration process. The subs will be positioned at the same distance from the main listening position (each sub will be next to the L and R speakers).

Any advice on whether I should just connect each sub in the two output jacks on the back of the 809 or if it would be preferable to connect a Y cord to only one of the jacks would be appreciated.


FROM THE ONKYO 809 OWNERS MANUAL:

You can connect the powered subwoofer with two
SUBWOOFER PRE OUT jacks respectively.
The same signal is output from each jack.


FROM THE AUDYSSEY 101 POST IN THIS THREAD:

f)2. How do I connect and set up two subwoofers?

This depends on which version of MultEQ you use. If you are fortunate enough to use XT32, then you have an AVR or prepro designed specifically to be able to EQ two subs. XT32 measures the delays and levels of each sub independently and then EQs them together in the room as a pair. In this case, connect one sub to each sub outlet on your unit, tell your unit you have two subs connected (in the menus not by whispering into its grilles) and then run XT32, following the onscreen instructions. It is recommended to run identical subs or subs with very similar critical performance specifications because XT32 will EQ to the capabilities of the LEAST capable sub if the two subs are very different in performance.

NOTE: if you have the Onkyo 818, this has a slightly different Audyssey implementation to other XT32-equipped units. It has a full implementation of XT32 but it does not have the SubEQ HT feature which every other (at the date of this FAQ edit) XT32-equipped unit has. SubEQ HT sets levels and distances individually and as this is not the case for the Onkyo 818, the setup procedure described in b) below should be used.

If you have the MultEQ or MultEQ XT version of Audyssey, things are more complicated.

If you have an AVR with two sub outputs, the way these sub outputs is wired internally may fall into one of two categories: the two subs may be:

a) two genuinely independent sub outputs or they may simply be

b) connected internally as if by an 'internal Y-cord' (see below).

Consult your AVR user manual to determine which method your AVR uses.

If your AVR uses method a) above, then follow the procedure below. An example of AVRs using this method of connection is the Onkyo x007 range.

Setup for 'method a)' AVRs:

For AVRs wired by method a) you will get best results by connecting both subs to ONE outlet on your AVR with a Y-cord. This applies even if your unit has two sub outlets - simply use Sub Outlet A or 1. This is because these AVRs allow Audyssey to set the levels and distances separately for each sub, but also then go on to create individual correction filters for each sub separately. This is not ideal because we want the subs to be EQd as a pair, working together in the room, not as two distinct subs each "doing their own thing".

Using a Y-Cord adapter:

When you run MultEQ or MultEQ XT in this type of AVR, you will find that by using a Y-cord connector Audyssey now pings both your subs as if they are one and sets the level and distance as if they are one and then goes on to EQ them as if they are one. This also means that it is highly recommended to use identical subs, if possible, and place them equidistant from the Main Listening Position or very close together (collocated). Because Audyssey MultEQ XT cannot set the levels and the delays individually, you can see why it is a good idea for the subs to be equidistant from the Main Listening Position and identical to each other, or have very similar critical performance specifications. It is also important to set the levels on both subs so that they are the same, before you do the Audyssey calibration. One way to do this is to run a test tone from your AVR or a calibration disc with one sub switched off. Set the active sub so that it reads about 72dB using a Sound Pressure Level meter located at the Main Listening Position. Then switch that sub off and repeat the procedure for the second sub. It is vital that you do this step or your subs will be unbalanced'. If you aim for 72dB on each sub then you will allow for the greater output from the pair. MultEQ and MultEQ XT will adjust the sub trim to the appropriate level when doing the calibration.

Setup for 'method b)' AVRs:

For AVRs wired using method b), you may connect each sub to its own output on the back of the AVR. This is identical to using a Y-cord as described above. AVRs which use this method of wiring are all Denon units with Audyssey MultEQ or MultEQ XT and dual sub capability. Please follow the instructions under the heading 'Using a Y-cord adapter' above (but with each sub connected to its own AVR sub output of course).

As a general rule of thumb, if you have MultEQ or MultEQ XT in your AVR and are unsure of how it is wired, use a Y-cord for best results.

Some versions of MultEQ XT (eg Onkyo) allow for setting up dual subs with an on-screen configuration before the full set of measurements are taken. If so, then this is the best way to get the levels of the subs right before starting the calibrat
post #61272 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

There's a recommendation and link in this FAQ answer:

d)1.   Do I really need to put the Audyssey mic on a tripod or stand?

Ah, thanks for the link. Should have searched first I guess!
post #61273 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

try the FAQ linked on page one of this thread. The display is a very very crude approximation of the Audyssey corrections. Essentially meaningless (Edit: It looks like the Denon 4311 uses a 1/3 octave display and maybe all XT32 equipped devices do

The Audyssey graph displays produced by the Denon 4310 (which is XT, not XT32) look just like those from the 4311.
post #61274 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I can't see what is confusing about Ed's advice.... does this amendment make it more clear?

The confusion came from the fact that the FAQ is recommending changing the trim at the AVR, and then the Ed Mullen quote recommends lowering the gain on the sub itself. A couple of folks have perceived the quote as contradicting the advice immediately above it (not supporting it).

Obviously, as you know, there is no conflict between these two as the latter is referring to PRE calibration, allowing you to get a lower trim POST calibration and thus have room for upward adjustment within the AVR. But the revised wording should resolve that potential confusion, thanks.
post #61275 of 70896
Anyone know where to buy a cheep camera Adapter for a mike stand in Canada.
Canadians get screwed over when it comes to pricing.
For example: the On Stage CM01 Video Camera/Digital Recorder Adapter recommended here.
Amazon.com: $9.95 good price.
Amazon.ca: $30.35 not much of a deal.
post #61276 of 70896
Ok, sorry if this has been covered already. I read through the initial post and the FAQ's. But my question is this, I just ran Audyssey. It set my fronts to large (full range) and I want them to be small and crossed over at 80hz. I already stored the settings with them still at full range. Can I just go in and change them to small and 80hz now, or do I need to rerun audyssey and change it before I store the info? Thanks.
post #61277 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgrotel View Post

Ok, sorry if this has been covered already. I read through the initial post and the FAQ's. But my question is this, I just ran Audyssey. It set my fronts to large (full range) and I want them to be small and crossed over at 80hz. I already stored the settings with them still at full range. Can I just go in and change them to small and 80hz now, or do I need to rerun audyssey and change it before I store the info? Thanks.

You can go in and change the settings at will after Audyssey setup is finished/stored.
post #61278 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

You can go in and change the setting at will after Audyssey setup is finished/stored.

Perfect, thank you.

And to do that I just go to:
System setup
speaker setup
and then adjust the speaker configuration and crossover frequency?

and the original post mentions setting the target curve. how do i get to that part in the menu? Thanks a ton.
post #61279 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgrotel View Post

Perfect, thank you.

And to do that I just go to:
System setup
speaker setup
and then adjust the speaker configuration and crossover frequency?

Correct.
Quote:
and the original post mentions setting the target curve. how do i get to that part in the menu? Thanks a ton.

A hard question without knowing which brand/model avr you have. wink.giftongue.gif
post #61280 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Correct.
A hard question without knowing which brand/model avr you have. wink.giftongue.gif

thanks again.

and sorry, i have a denon 2112 with xt
post #61281 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgrotel View Post

thanks again.

and sorry, i have a denon 2112 with xt

Let's see which one of us finds it quicker in the Manual, you or me? smile.gif
post #61282 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Let's see which one of us finds it quicker in the Manual, you or me? smile.gif

Here you go, page 81:



Tip: select "Audyssey" (default) for movies and select "Audyssey Flat" for music. But feel free to experiment and choose the setting you think is best for your taste. smile.gif
post #61283 of 70896
Thanks, I guess that just means I need to have "Audyssey" being the one selected when I hit the return button? It doesn't seem there is any other way to selet it. Thanks.
post #61284 of 70896
okay I bought the boom stand and mic adapter from the recommendation here I want said thanks for the links.

I have one question there is a wall behind my sofa. recommended position for each mic position is 2 feet so how far it should be from back wall? 2 feet? also how high from the seat.
thanks:)
post #61285 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

okay I bought the boom stand and mic adapter from the recommendation here I want said thanks for the links.

I have one question there is a wall behind my sofa. recommended position for each mic position is 2 feet so how far it should be from back wall? 2 feet? also how high from the seat.
thanks:)

You're in luck. post #1 leads you to all that info
post #61286 of 70896
Many thanks to those who contributed to the FAQ from a first time Audyssey user!
post #61287 of 70896
Whats the cheapest receiver with this feature? I want it for the ease of setting up my audio system. Budget is like $250
post #61288 of 70896
Please be more specific as to what you mean by "this feature".
post #61289 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu_One View Post

I just got 2 identical SVS subwoofers and I have the Onkyo 809 receiver (which has the XT version of Audyssey). After reading the Audyssey 101 post (relevant section pasted below) and the Onkyo 809 owners manual I'm not sure how I should connect them before starting the calibration process. The subs will be positioned at the same distance from the main listening position (each sub will be next to the L and R speakers).

Any advice on whether I should just connect each sub in the two output jacks on the back of the 809 or if it would be preferable to connect a Y cord to only one of the jacks would be appreciated.


FROM THE ONKYO 809 OWNERS MANUAL:

You can connect the powered subwoofer with two
SUBWOOFER PRE OUT jacks respectively.
The same signal is output from each jack.


FROM THE AUDYSSEY 101 POST IN THIS THREAD:

f)2. How do I connect and set up two subwoofers?
 

 

 

It makes no difference. With your AVR and Audyssey version, you can connect the two subs to the two sub outputs on the AVR or you can use one sub output and a Y cord. Same thing. Remember to set the menu choices in the AVR correctly though.

 

With identical subs if you can get them at equal distances from the MLP, then you are all set and XT will do its stuff.

post #61290 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I can't see what is confusing about Ed's advice.... does this amendment make it more clear?

The confusion came from the fact that the FAQ is recommending changing the trim at the AVR, and then the Ed Mullen quote recommends lowering the gain on the sub itself. A couple of folks have perceived the quote as contradicting the advice immediately above it (not supporting it).

Obviously, as you know, there is no conflict between these two as the latter is referring to PRE calibration, allowing you to get a lower trim POST calibration and thus have room for upward adjustment within the AVR. But the revised wording should resolve that potential confusion, thanks.

 

Yes, I guess that was the confusion - some people don't read what is written but rather what they think has been written. Nonetheless, the blame for lack of comprehension should lie firmly with the writer not the reader, so hopefully, the amendment will do the trick... thanks for the heads-up on it BP.

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