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"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2048

post #61411 of 70900
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Nobody will ever notice that. Tell you what -- if a single person ever posts on this thread voicing confusion because the FAQ said the internal test tones bypass Audyssey, but the Audyssey indicators are lit on their receiver's display, then we can ask Keith to change the FAQ wink.gif

I was the one who was confused with that, and I didn't ask Keith but I asked Chris K. and he made it clear for me. I just wanted to help othes have a better understanding. If no, then no. Le't move on, please! smile.gif
post #61412 of 70900
Audyssey settings.............
I've been farting around with different settings trying to get my Denon 4520 to sound good in the 2 channel stereo mode. It's just never sounded quite right to me for music (I almost always listen to music in 2 channel stereo). What I found is that Audyssey cranks up the treble while cutting the bass. Trying to compare Audyssey with the avr's tone adjustments I had to set the treble up to 5 or 6 (6 is the maximum on this receiver) to match what Audyssey has done. When you couple the heavy treble with the negative bass it sounds harsh and brittle especially at loud volume and with busy music. I just got my 3311 back from the shop and if it wasn't such a pita I'd like to hook that back up to compare the 2. I had the 3311 sounding really good with music before the transistors went away. Does this Audyssey treble boost suggest anything in my environment or in my other gear to anybody? Maybe there's something I can change, I don't know????? I've already upped my subs by 5 db's and that helps with the LF but obviously doesn't help with the boosted treble.
BTW, I'm not sure if this question belongs in the Audyssey or Denon threads so I'm posting in both.
Thanks for any suggestions.
post #61413 of 70900
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Then please explain to the FAQ readers why the Audyssey indicators remain lit during test tone rendering?tongue.gif

Feri, on my AVR (Denon 4520), the Audyssey indicator goes off when the internal test tone is played. So you can sleep easy, I won't be confused when the test tones are playing.
post #61414 of 70900
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougReim View Post

Audyssey settings.............
I've been farting around with different settings trying to get my Denon 4520 to sound good in the 2 channel stereo mode. It's just never sounded quite right to me for music (I almost always listen to music in 2 channel stereo). What I found is that Audyssey cranks up the treble while cutting the bass. Trying to compare Audyssey with the avr's tone adjustments I had to set the treble up to 5 or 6 (6 is the maximum on this receiver) to match what Audyssey has done. When you couple the heavy treble with the negative bass it sounds harsh and brittle especially at loud volume and with busy music. I just got my 3311 back from the shop and if it wasn't such a pita I'd like to hook that back up to compare the 2. I had the 3311 sounding really good with music before the transistors went away. Does this Audyssey treble boost suggest anything in my environment or in my other gear to anybody? Maybe there's something I can change, I don't know????? I've already upped my subs by 5 db's and that helps with the LF but obviously doesn't help with the boosted treble.
BTW, I'm not sure if this question belongs in the Audyssey or Denon threads so I'm posting in both.
Thanks for any suggestions.

Hey Doug:

Do you have Dynamic Volume engaged?
post #61415 of 70900
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Feri, on my AVR (Denon 4520), the Audyssey indicator goes off when the internal test tone is played. So you can sleep easy, I won't be confused when the test tones are playing.

Thanks Jerry, I'll sleep tight for sure. wink.gif But IMHO, it would be best if Audyssey indicators would remain lit meaning that even the internal test tones are running through the Audyssey filters, especially for the sub channel. Maybe next year's model? smile.gif
post #61416 of 70900
Hi myoda,
Yeah, I've tried it both ways. I like what Dynamic Volume does at low volumes, at least the increased bass helps offset the increased treble.
post #61417 of 70900
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougReim View Post

Hi myoda,
Yeah, I've tried it both ways. I like what Dynamic Volume does at low volumes, at least the increased bass helps offset the increased treble.

Doug,

Is it Dynamic Volume or Dynamic EQ that you like at low volumes?
post #61418 of 70900
My mistake, I use Dyn Eq. Dynamic Volume is always off.
post #61419 of 70900
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Some people think that XT32 will be the last iteration of MultEQ, but nobody really knows.

I think not! Technology can always be improved, new algorithm developed!
post #61420 of 70900
Are you suggesting a name change or what makes you think that Audyssey MultEQ won't be improved ?
CPU power increases as does the RAM capacity of DSP solutions.
Thus algorithms might be getting more complex, more calculation intensive and handle more complex room acoustics modeling software.
Even the methodology might change by using a complex mike arry eztc. We don't know.
As far as i know there will be a new Audyssey DSX 2.0.
post #61421 of 70900
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Some people think that XT32 will be the last iteration of MultEQ, but nobody really knows.

I think not! Technology can always be improved, new algorithm developed!

The issue is Audyssey's commitment to it rather than the tech itself. Audyssey seem to be concentrating on other areas recently.

post #61422 of 70900
Quote:
Originally Posted by gurkey View Post

Are you suggesting a name change or what makes you think that Audyssey MultEQ won't be improved ?
CPU power increases as does the RAM capacity of DSP solutions.
Thus algorithms might be getting more complex, more calculation intensive and handle more complex room acoustics modeling software.
Even the methodology might change by using a complex mike arry eztc. We don't know.
As far as i know there will be a new Audyssey DSX 2.0.

I wasn't suggesting it would definitely not be improved beyond XT32, just airing the possibility that it might not be. Audyssey seem to be focusing elsewhere these days. I would love to see it improved and agree with you that from a technical standpoint there is probably no reason why it cannot be. It could be market-driven - if a competitor produced a wholly superior RC system then Audyssey's partners (specifically Onkyo and Denon/Marantz) may well put pressure on Audyssey to step up to the plate, or they could choose to go with the competitor of course. Personally I don't care who makes the RC system nor what it is called, so long as it works well - so if someone comes along with something a lot better (at no more money than XT32) then I'd jump at it I guess. I am intrigued with Trinnov and its ability to virtually move speakers for example - that would be helpful in my room. 

post #61423 of 70900
Is the Denon 4311 a nice avr even if it came out 3 years ago?
post #61424 of 70900
Quote:
Originally Posted by asere View Post

Is the Denon 4311 a nice avr even if it came out 3 years ago?

 

IMO (as an Onkyo 5509 prepro owner) I think the 4311 isn’t just 'nice' - it is fabulous. It has a huge spec, XT32, is Audyssey Pro ready, a great 'preamp' mode and has received terrific reviews. If the unit had been available at the prices it appeared at just before Denon disco'd it, it is what I would have bought and I can tell you I would have still been happy with it. Unless you need whatever new features Denon added to its replacement, you can't go wrong. IMO of course. 

post #61425 of 70900
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

IMO (as an Onkyo 5509 prepro owner) I think the 4311 isn’t just 'nice' - it is fabulous. It has a huge spec, XT32, is Audyssey Pro ready, a great 'preamp' mode and has received terrific reviews. If the unit had been available at the prices it appeared at just before Denon disco'd it, it is what I would have bought and I can tell you I would have still been happy with it. Unless you need whatever new features Denon added to its replacement, you can't go wrong. IMO of course. 

It lacks 4k but isn't 4k only for the new projectors or the new tv technology? By the time those 4k tv's drop down in price I am sure it would be time to upgrade the 4311 I think. Accessories 4 Less has the 4311 refurbished for 1,089. I might just get that one.
post #61426 of 70900
Quote:
Originally Posted by asere View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

IMO (as an Onkyo 5509 prepro owner) I think the 4311 isn’t just 'nice' - it is fabulous. It has a huge spec, XT32, is Audyssey Pro ready, a great 'preamp' mode and has received terrific reviews. If the unit had been available at the prices it appeared at just before Denon disco'd it, it is what I would have bought and I can tell you I would have still been happy with it. Unless you need whatever new features Denon added to its replacement, you can't go wrong. IMO of course. 

It lacks 4k but isn't 4k only for the new projectors or the new tv technology? By the time those 4k tv's drop down in price I am sure it would be time to upgrade the 4311 I think. Accessories 4 Less has the 4311 refurbished for 1,089. I might just get that one.

 

Yes, 4k is fairly irrelevant though right now, as you say. By the time you have a 4k display, and some 4k content to use it with, I am sure you will also be in the market for a new AVR with the latest room correction, multi-channel Dolby Atmos support, DTS Neo:X 32 channel support and whatever else might be in the pipeline that we can currently only dream about. Meanwhile, the 4311 can do everything I said and can also do 11.2 with the addition of an external 2 channel amp, which I forgot to mention. For just over a grand, well, to me it would be a no-brainer...

post #61427 of 70900
Anyone know how the audio calibration system on the Pioneer VSX-1021-K compares to Audyssey?
post #61428 of 70900
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Yes, 4k is fairly irrelevant though right now, as you say. By the time you have a 4k display, and some 4k content to use it with, I am sure you will also be in the market for a new AVR with the latest room correction, multi-channel Dolby Atmos support, DTS Neo:X 32 channel support and whatever else might be in the pipeline that we can currently only dream about. Meanwhile, the 4311 can do everything I said and can also do 11.2 with the addition of an external 2 channel amp, which I forgot to mention. For just over a grand, well, to me it would be a no-brainer...

I really like that it has xt32 and a separate discrete power amp. It also has Sub EQ HT and while I have mismatched subs I am sure it will do a nice job with the two.
post #61429 of 70900
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdsnapBryan View Post

Anyone know how the audio calibration system on the Pioneer VSX-1021-K compares to Audyssey?

Pioneer uses the MCACC to calibrate and I can tell you that it does not EQ the sub like Audyssey does. As far as filters go I am sure someone here more knowledgeable can go into detail about the differences.
post #61430 of 70900
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by asere View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

IMO (as an Onkyo 5509 prepro owner) I think the 4311 isn’t just 'nice' - it is fabulous. It has a huge spec, XT32, is Audyssey Pro ready, a great 'preamp' mode and has received terrific reviews. If the unit had been available at the prices it appeared at just before Denon disco'd it, it is what I would have bought and I can tell you I would have still been happy with it. Unless you need whatever new features Denon added to its replacement, you can't go wrong. IMO of course. 

It lacks 4k but isn't 4k only for the new projectors or the new tv technology? By the time those 4k tv's drop down in price I am sure it would be time to upgrade the 4311 I think. Accessories 4 Less has the 4311 refurbished for 1,089. I might just get that one.

 

Yes, 4k is fairly irrelevant though right now, as you say. By the time you have a 4k display, and some 4k content to use it with, I am sure you will also be in the market for a new AVR with the latest room correction, multi-channel Dolby Atmos support, DTS Neo:X 32 channel support and whatever else might be in the pipeline that we can currently only dream about. Meanwhile, the 4311 can do everything I said and can also do 11.2 with the addition of an external 2 channel amp, which I forgot to mention. For just over a grand, well, to me it would be a no-brainer...

 

I think the HDMI 2.0 standard will have us all looking for an upgrade whether we like it or not...

post #61431 of 70900
hi guys, i just run my aud. lat night, and it sets my subwoofer +0.05db. how hot are we allowed to tweak the sub result after aud? i know from the avr the maximun is +12db, what is the best rannge from my aud result +0.05db to tweak? +3.0db to +5.0db should be good? or all the way to +12db? thanks.
post #61432 of 70900
Why would you need to push it all the way to +12dB???? Increasing your sub 10dB will require TEN TIMES the power from the sub's amp. There is no "allowed" or "best" that can be generalized, the question is when do your subwoofers hit their limits... that will depend on the specifics of your setup, the room, the volume levels, etc. Once you deviate from the calibrated level you are now in "preference land" so it's all up to what YOU like.

Pumping the bass up a little bit (3-5dB) is manageable but why on earth would you want to go that high?
post #61433 of 70900
Riddle me this...

I received my HSU VF15 two weeks ago and recently re-ran Audyssey to calibrate my new sub as well as my Klipsch speakers. One problem that I am running into is that after calibration, Audyssey / Denon is setting my crossover for my towers (Klipsch RF-82ii) at 250Hz. This puzzles me because these towers are beasts with dual 8" woofers each. In addition, the spec sheet for the Klipsch towers have them tuned down to 33Hz. My towers are currently about 6 inches from the wall and in my searching online, I took recommendations to move them even closer to the wall (about 4 inches) and re-ran Audyssey with the same results. Right now I have adjusted the crossover down to 100Hz because the subwoofer should not handle frequencies that high and there was just too much bass. I would love some feedback on how to get my system to integrate a little better and bring down the crossover for the mains and actually have Audyssey calibrate them appropriately.

Thank you everyone in advance!
post #61434 of 70900
Typically there could be two likely causes for this:

1) There is a blown driver in one of the speakers
2) There is something weird going on with your room acoustics

In both cases, a massive dip in the ~200Hz range will cause Audyssey to think your speaker rolls off around there. On Denons, the only crossover choice above 200Hz is 250Hz, so for whatever reason Audyssey is "hearing" the -3dB point of at least one of the speakers in that 200-250Hz range. It only takes one speaker, because crossovers can only be set by speaker pair.

As a test, try pulling the speakers out to a different position and re-running. To speed up the process you only need to do 2-3 measurements and then let it calculate and you can view the "parameter check" screen to verify the new crossover.

Also, make sure the "jumper" is securely connected between the upper/lower binding posts. If the low frequency posts are not getting a signal, the woofers will not fire.
post #61435 of 70900
Did anybody know which Marantz 7007 had for a room calibration system? Which version of Audyssey is it? XT or XT32? Or a system from different manufacturer?
post #61436 of 70900
Just look at the product page: http://us.marantz.com/us/products/pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=avreceivers&ProductId=SR7007

Audyssey MultEQ XT. Took me 10 seconds to google it wink.gif

Marantz models are made by the same company as Denon (D&M Holdings) and have the same tech. The "slim" models (140x/160x) use regular MultEQ, the higher level receivers (5007, 6007, 7007) use XT, and the high end 8801 pre-pro uses XT32.

Here's a list of Marantz models with Audyssey tech specs from the Audyssey website: http://audyssey.com/products?installable=All&pid=123&ptype=All
post #61437 of 70900
need a little help again, i just bought the klipsch rw 12d subwoofer, but before running the aud, i dont see any crossover on the sub. but i set the "lowpass OFF LFE mode" or "lowpass ON LFE mode" ?? i already set it to flat, phase to zero. but not sure about the crossover. thanks.

from the manual.

“Lowpass” - This screen is used to adjust the subwoofer’s upper frequency limit to achieve a proper blend with your system’s main speakers. A higher frequency (Hz) is typically used with smaller, bass limited main speakers and a lower frequency setting is customarily used with larger floorstanding models. This filter can be adjusted from 40Hz to 120Hz, as required, or defeated if the low pass filter function is being performed by your system’s electronics. Use the Left/Right cursor keys to adjust the lowpass filter. To defeat this filter press and hold the Right cursor key until “Lowpass OFF LFE Mode” is displayed. Refer to your surround processor’s owner’s manual for more Bass Management information. From this screen press the down or up cursor key to access other control settings.
post #61438 of 70900
Set Lowpass to Off.
post #61439 of 70900
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Set Lowpass to Off.
thank you so much.
post #61440 of 70900
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

FAQ UPDATE!

I've updated the answer below to take into account the recent discussion as to whether speaker SPLs should be the same across all speakers after running Audyssey and when testing with an SPL meter.

e)3.   Why does my My Sound Pressure Level meter give a different result to Audyssey?

Hi Keith!, long time no talk.

I would just like to point out that the FAQ language is incorrect.

"The short answer is probably "no'. Since the AVR's internal test tones are not (and can not be) processed by Audyssey, when you measure the AVR's test tone levels, you're measuring what your room is doing to unprocessed audio. Audyssey is designed to correct those inequalities for you. It is therefore possible that if Audyssey has had to perform a lot of correction on one or more speakers, relative to the others, then the SPL readings of unprocessed tones will be different to the reading that Audyssey has made, post-correction. It is also possible therefore that the SPL readings will vary from speaker to speaker for the same reason."

Audyssey takes no SPL readings post correction. As well, the bandwidth limited frequencies that Audyssey uses to set levels are generated WITHOUT correction filters applied. As such, the internal test tones are an entirely valid way to check levels with the only caveat that it is impossible to know what frequencies each specific manufacturer uses for its internal test tone and the levels could vary from audyssey as a result of the test tone frequency composition differences.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post


"If you use audio level test tracks from a good, properly recorded audio calibration disc (or other reliable external audio signal source), they can be processed by Audyssey. If Audyssey's calibration has done its job correctly, when Audyssey is enabled (and Dyn Vol and Dyn EQ are disabled) those externally-supplied calibration sounds should all produce the same sound level at the Main Listening Position."

Note the emboldened part - it doesn't say that the absolute levels (ie 75dB) will be measured - just that they should all produce the same sound level, which could be 75dB or 80dB or who knows what - it will depend on the test disc.

Using a test disk with Audyssey enabled is the scenario where you will more likely find level discrepancies since they would be measured post correction. If using a test tone disc to double check Audyssey levels, I would recommend disabling Audyssey processing for accuracy.
Edited by Gooddoc - 4/14/13 at 9:42am
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