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"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2057

post #61681 of 70890
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Personally, I'd recommend you turn off Double Bass. If you feel you are lacking bass, then the only real answer is a better sub unfortunately.

f)7.    What is ‘LFE + Main’ or ‘Double Bass’ and should I use it?

Thank you. I now understand much better.... About the Dyn EQ settings.... 15 DB means the lowest correction in the lower volume levels and 0DB means the most "pushing" the sound?
post #61682 of 70890
^^^^

Correct.
post #61683 of 70890
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazz063 View Post

I'm new to all of this Audyssey stuff, I have a Denon 3313. I have read the Audyssey FAQ and have no problems with the mic placement but I'm a little lost with what I need to set on my sub. I have added the diagram for the sub below, I have the M&K MX5000 THX, the diagram is for the 350 but it is from the joint 350/5000 manual. Any help would be appreciated.


Use the only the Left/mono input from the Denon's sub out , next set the sub level switch to variable ( try it in the THX position first but if the gain is to high for Audyssey flip to variable and adjust accordingly)

Keep the phase at + and bass EQ at THX.

lastly set the Low pass filter to THX mode. smile.gif

Great thanks for the help, I'm away for the weekend so I'll give it a whirl next week when I get back. smile.gif
post #61684 of 70890
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I think the key distinction here is whether Audyssey uses what it "knows" about the lesser sub when actually calibrating. Chris's response seems pretty explicit in that it doesn't: "However, when the subs are used as "one" acoustically the lesser one may suffer because the EQ filter is calculated based on the combined acoustical response."

This to me is pretty clear -- the MultEQ software simply "listens" to the combined response and creates the filters based on what it hears.

So in fact to me it's the opposite of the idea that the system is "EQd to the capability of the lesser sub". Chris's response indicates that the issue is not "holding back" the bigger sub, but rather the fact that the combined system response may end up pushing the lesser sub farther than it can go because the combined acoustical response is superior to what the lesser sub could provide on its own.

I have to agree here, otherwise anyone that incorporates the Geddes multi-sub approach would be shooting themselves in the foot. For those that dont know, this is basically where you take the most capable sub in the system and place it optimally, then additional 3 subs around the room are placed where they get the best response result, but decrease in capability all the way down to where the 4th added sub is almost 10dB down compared to the first sub. Running Audyssey would be a certain no go if the opposite of what BP posted were to be true.
post #61685 of 70890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Don't.  The current MultEQ XT32 is superior in processing/integration to the rather dated outboard processor. Even more so with the Pro kit.  Also, the SE forces redundant A/D/A conversion.

Kal,

I am waiting for my Revel Embrace surround speakers that I bought used. Once those are in hand (early next week), I will replace my S30s and run the Audyssey MulitEQ XT32 again.
Should I go ahead and buy the Pro Kit? It is around $500+ and the license is $150. Is this investment worth? I currently have Integra 80.2 with Built-in XT32 ...

Thanks!
post #61686 of 70890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prosoft7 View Post


Kal,

I am waiting for my Revel Embrace surround speakers that I bought used. Once those are in hand (early next week), I will replace my S30s and run the Audyssey MulitEQ XT32 again.
Should I go ahead and buy the Pro Kit? It is around $500+ and the license is $150. Is this investment worth? I currently have Integra 80.2 with Built-in XT32 ...

Thanks!

Impossible to say.   It is worth it to me for the added control and information as well as the better microphone.  In terms of actual sound, that will depend on how good/bad your acoustics are and whether you need more mic positions.  Frankly, with good equipment and a decent room, it might be better to put the money/effort into a good measurement system (REW, OmniMic, XTZ, etc.) and learn what is going on first.

post #61687 of 70890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prosoft7 View Post


Kal,

I am waiting for my Revel Embrace surround speakers that I bought used. Once those are in hand (early next week), I will replace my S30s and run the Audyssey MulitEQ XT32 again.
Should I go ahead and buy the Pro Kit? It is around $500+ and the license is $150. Is this investment worth? I currently have Integra 80.2 with Built-in XT32 ...

Thanks!

 

You might want to check out the FAQ:  http://www.avsforum.com/t/1346723/the-audyssey-pro-installer-kit-thread-faq-in-post-1/3030#post_22429521

 

The kit offers additional flexibility and precision to the calibration process, but whether this incremental benefit is worth the $700 entry fee, that is difficult to say.  I agree with Kal--why invest in the kit if you haven't measured what you have now?

post #61688 of 70890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Impossible to say.   It is worth it to me for the added control and information as well as the better microphone.  In terms of actual sound, that will depend on how good/bad your acoustics are and whether you need more mic positions.  Frankly, with good equipment and a decent room, it might be better to put the money/effort into a good measurement system (REW, OmniMic, XTZ, etc.) and learn what is going on first.

Thanks Kal! I will hold of with the Pro Kit for now. My system is Revel F52s (Main), Voice 2 (Center) and will be Embrace (Surround). Room has sofa, carpet and size is 25x14 perfect rectangle.
I saw you saying somewhere that REW is a bit complicated compared to XTZ. I am going to do this for the first time, so, between OmniMic & XTZ, which one should be more suitable in my case?
Thanks in advance!
Regards.
post #61689 of 70890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prosoft7 View Post


Thanks Kal! I will hold of with the Pro Kit for now. My system is Revel F52s (Main), Voice 2 (Center) and will be Embrace (Surround). Room has sofa, carpet and size is 25x14 perfect rectangle.
I saw you saying somewhere that REW is a bit complicated compared to XTZ. I am going to do this for the first time, so, between OmniMic & XTZ, which one should be more suitable in my case?
Thanks in advance!
Regards.

 

Not Kal, but a group of us has been focusing on making REW more accessible.  Several members of the group have converted from OmniMic to REW.  Check out the thread here, or the simple REW setup guide referenced in my signature.

post #61690 of 70890
Thanks for the response. I used a tripod and also used all 8 positions. I also have a set of Klipschorns that I use in my living room. They wont work in the theater since my screen is wall to wall. The Lascalas fit under it. I was complaining to my wife one day about having 11 speakers in the theater and the Klipschorn in the living room sound better. I normally use the Harmon Kardon in the living room in stereo mode. The theater took a huge improvement when i moved the HK into it. Now the Integra with Audyssey is back and I am less than Impressed. No bass and not much surround work with Audyssey enabled. Still need to try the Integra wit Audyssey off. The HK is twice as heavy as the Integra although it is rates at less power.
post #61691 of 70890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prosoft7 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Impossible to say.   It is worth it to me for the added control and information as well as the better microphone.  In terms of actual sound, that will depend on how good/bad your acoustics are and whether you need more mic positions.  Frankly, with good equipment and a decent room, it might be better to put the money/effort into a good measurement system (REW, OmniMic, XTZ, etc.) and learn what is going on first.

Thanks Kal! I will hold of with the Pro Kit for now. My system is Revel F52s (Main), Voice 2 (Center) and will be Embrace (Surround). Room has sofa, carpet and size is 25x14 perfect rectangle.
I saw you saying somewhere that REW is a bit complicated compared to XTZ. I am going to do this for the first time, so, between OmniMic & XTZ, which one should be more suitable in my case?
Thanks in advance!
Regards.

 

I have XT32 and then bought the Pro Kit. Any differences achieved with the Pro Kit are subtle. That is not to say they are not important, but don't expect a difference like you get by going from XT to XT32. Mainly I noticed a better integration of the surrounds into the 'bubble'. The difference achieved from the Pro Kit over XT32 is many orders of magnitude less than the difference I achieved by treating the room, so do bear in mind the 'hierarchy of upgrading'. I would agree with Kal and Jerry - I’d get some measuring gear before the Pro Kit.

 

In order to know what needs doing in the room, it is essential to measure it. This means learning REW or something similar. For a long time I was put off using REW as it seemed overly complicated but the latest version which uses a USB mic and HDMI requires just one HDMI connection between the AVR and the laptop and is much easier to use. Check out the new REW thread for full info - and read Jerry's brilliant Guide which is linked in my sig. It took me just a day or two to become proficient in REW. Before that I had the OmniMic kit. This is much easier to use but gives way, way, way less useful information and has way less flexibility. I would definitely recommend REW over and above OM. There are loads of experienced users in the new REW thread who will be happy to hold your hand while you progress along the learning curve.  I have no experience of XTZ so cant comment on that.

 

HTH.

post #61692 of 70890
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by BennyTurbo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

This is what I have always said in the FAQ AIUI. So the F3 of each sub IS determined when each sub is pinged and because of that the pair of subs is EQd to the capability of the lesser sub. This is what we have always said in this thread, until recently. I agree that Chris's explanation is slightly different but the effect is the same.



Chris often answers just the part of the question that concerns MultEQ and this is what I think he has done here. Regardless of how MultEQ EQs the subs, there is no good reason to use 'large' in a system with a sub and, of course, doing so effectively bypasses all bass management. There are also other good reasons for not using 'large' and they are well-known to all of us I think.

I tested it yesterday (Onkyo 818 with XR32) to run the fronts on Large and use Onkyo's Double Bass.... I have a sub but with Double Bass Feature it sounds really nice like having two subs? Audyssey XT32 detects my speakers with 40 Hz / Small.... problem is on 40 Hz/Small the Double Bass Feature is not available to fill the room better with bass.... and i don't not want to put in a second subwoofer. Any idea what would you remommend me?

 

Personally, I'd recommend you turn off Double Bass. If you feel you are lacking bass, then the only real answer is a better sub unfortunately.

 

f)7.    What is ‘LFE + Main’ or ‘Double Bass’ and should I use it?

 

 

Anyone looking for a good sub that plays down to 18Hz and costs less than $500 might care to check out this review:

 

A true 18 Hz subwoofer for just $499

post #61693 of 70890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neverwinter2 View Post

Audyssey is the future and I can not wait until the denon pre/pro comes out.

I'm have frowned on the new marantz pre/pro and just as bad at the denon avr-4810. Both create a low (not 60hz) humm and a bright hiss audible to 18" where as an integra dtr-30.4 low ended receiver acted as a pre pro created no hiss or humm until your ear is in the driver. If I were you, I'd wait foe the integra 80.5 pre pro hopefully coming out by CEDIA
post #61694 of 70890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundman2580 View Post

I'm have frowned on the new marantz pre/pro and just as bad at the denon avr-4810. Both create a low (not 60hz) humm and a bright hiss audible to 18" where as an integra dtr-30.4 low ended receiver acted as a pre pro created no hiss or humm until your ear is in the driver. If I were you, I'd wait foe the integra 80.5 pre pro hopefully coming out by CEDIA

Why are you quoting a post back from 2007 (as your first post here) and relating it to a non-Audyssey issue like hum which as you say is not 60 Hz but lower? BTW, if it's not 60 Hz in America or 50 Hz in Europe it's not hum (caused by a ground loop in the system), but something else.smile.gif

P.S.: Welcome to the Official Audyssey Thread! smile.gif
Edited by mogorf - 4/28/13 at 12:19pm
post #61695 of 70890
I ordered the boom stand and mic adapter in the FAQ, but I can't position it at ear level AND have the Audyssey mic pointed at the ceiling -- the boom stand is too tall or my ears are too low. Any advice?
post #61696 of 70890
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody777 View Post

I ordered the boom stand and mic adapter in the FAQ, but I can't position it at ear level AND have the Audyssey mic pointed at the ceiling -- the boom stand is too tall or my ears are too low. Any advice?

The lowest height setting of that boom stand in the FAQ is 36 inches, ...are you sure your seated ear level is positioned lower than that?
post #61697 of 70890
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody777 View Post

I ordered the boom stand and mic adapter in the FAQ, but I can't position it at ear level AND have the Audyssey mic pointed at the ceiling -- the boom stand is too tall or my ears are too low. Any advice?

Tri-pods are inexpensive and can be used for HD Camcorder &/or Camera. Bought for Calibration, where it easily adjusts to most ear heights.
post #61698 of 70890
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

The lowest height setting of that boom stand in the FAQ is 36 inches, ...are you sure your seated ear level is positioned lower than that?

My ear height is 32 inches -- my coach has no legs and is already sort of close to the ground.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanchoPanza View Post

Tri-pods are inexpensive and can be used for HD Camcorder &/or Camera. Bought for Calibration, where it easily adjusts to most ear heights.

I figured it out. I removed the threaded part from the adapter and put it back on upside down -- now the ball moves the opposite way and I can adjust it so the mic is pointed at the ceiling even if the boom arm is angled down.
post #61699 of 70890
in the meantime, lets start a collection to get your "coach" some prosthetic legs... rolleyes.gifcool.gifbiggrin.gif
post #61700 of 70890
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanchoPanza View Post

in the meantime, lets start a collection to get your "coach" some prosthetic legs... rolleyes.gifcool.gifbiggrin.gif

Difficulties of development are always followed by development of difficulties! cool.gifwink.gifsmile.gifeek.gif
post #61701 of 70890
You guys really shouldn't make fun. It's truly inspiring to see him running up and down the sidelines!
post #61702 of 70890
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody777 View Post

You guys really shouldn't make fun. It's truly inspiring to see him running up and down the sidelines!

No pun intended! On a serious note, sitting and measuring so low may bring about unwanted artifacts for Audyssey, like strong reflections off the floor at the mid to high frequency range that might influence EQ'ing in a bad way by way of rolling off the high end of the spectrum making your system sound dull. Just thinkin' out loud! cool.gif
post #61703 of 70890
^Feri, I don't know why you're thinking that, especially "out loud".
There's no problem sitting at 32". And there's no problem sampling at that height either.
I usually sample at 32" once or twice, 34" (my reclined ear height) about 8 times and 36" once or twice. I do about 12 measurements with Pro and Pro guidelines include varying the mic height a bit to capture more info. After all, room modes are in 3D and we don't sit at exactly the same height at all times.
post #61704 of 70890
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

^Feri, I don't know why you're thinking that, especially "out loud".
There's no problem sitting at 32". And there's no problem sampling at that height either.
I usually sample at 32" once or twice, 34" (my reclined ear height) about 8 times and 36" once or twice. I do about 12 measurements with Pro and Pro guidelines include varying the mic height a bit to capture more info. After all, room modes are in 3D and we don't sit at exactly the same height at all times.

Hi SoM, I agree with you that there is no problem sitting at any height and especially no problem at the bass department. My concern was that the height of 32" should not be regarded as an absolute hight, but should be related to the speakers' (especially the tweeters') height. We don't know woody's speakers (towers or bookshelves), and their relative height to the seated ear height at 32". I think the best would be to have the speakers on-axis (i.e. tilted if possible) to the listening height in order to let Audyssey work at it's best, in the high frequency range, right? Maybe woddy will come back with more info and/or a couple of pictures of his setup.smile.gif
Edited by mogorf - 4/29/13 at 3:44am
post #61705 of 70890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundman2580 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neverwinter2 View Post

Audyssey is the future and I can not wait until the denon pre/pro comes out.

I'm have frowned on the new marantz pre/pro and just as bad at the denon avr-4810. Both create a low (not 60hz) humm and a bright hiss audible to 18" where as an integra dtr-30.4 low ended receiver acted as a pre pro created no hiss or humm until your ear is in the driver. If I were you, I'd wait foe the integra 80.5 pre pro hopefully coming out by CEDIA

 

One for the Denon or Marantz threads I think. Nothing to do with Audyssey. 

post #61706 of 70890
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by woody777 View Post

I ordered the boom stand and mic adapter in the FAQ, but I can't position it at ear level AND have the Audyssey mic pointed at the ceiling -- the boom stand is too tall or my ears are too low. Any advice?

The lowest height setting of that boom stand in the FAQ is 36 inches, ...are you sure your seated ear level is positioned lower than that?

 

I use the same stand and adapter and I position my mic at, as it happens, 36 inches - the measured height of my ear position when watching a movie (more or less - it fluctuates of course as I sit upright, slouch, etc).  The problem is the adapter in Woody's case - you can have the mic at a few inches off the floor if you angle the boom downwards - but the adapter won’t then let you get the mic vertically pointing up to the ceiling. I modified my adapter in my workshop (aka tool shed) to make the slot bigger so that the range of movement was greater.

post #61707 of 70890
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Hi SoM, I agree with you that there is no problem sitting at any height and especially no problem at the bass department. My concern was that the height of 32" should not be regarded as an absolute hight, but should be related to the speakers' (especially the tweeters') height. We don't know woody's speakers (towers or bookshelves), and their relative height to the seated ear height at 32". I think the best would be to have the speakers on-axis (i.e. tilted if possible) to the listening height in order to let Audyssey work at it's best, in the high frequency range, right? Maybe woddy will come back with more info and/or a couple of pictures of his setup.smile.gif

Yep, good point.
post #61708 of 70890
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundman2580 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neverwinter2 View Post

Audyssey is the future and I can not wait until the denon pre/pro comes out.


I'm have frowned on the new marantz pre/pro and just as bad at the denon avr-4810. Both create a low (not 60hz) humm and a bright hiss audible to 18" where as an integra dtr-30.4 low ended receiver acted as a pre pro created no hiss or humm until your ear is in the driver. If I were you, I'd wait foe the integra 80.5 pre pro hopefully coming out by CEDIA

One for the Denon or Marantz threads I think. Nothing to do with Audyssey. 
And, as described, the symptoms are consistent with defective units. Certainly I've never heard those symptoms.
post #61709 of 70890
Hi all,

Sorry if this has already been covered. i ran a few searches on this thread and could not find the answer (2K plus posts!).

Is it possible to restrict the frequency range for Audyssey calibration? For example, is it possible to have it calibrate the system only for under a certain frequency (say 400hz)? I am thinking about upgrading my AVR and would like to leave the higher frequencies alone and see if Audyssey could help <400hz or so.


Thanks!
post #61710 of 70890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Q&A View Post

Hi all,

Sorry if this has already been covered. i ran a few searches on this thread and could not find the answer (2K plus posts!).

Is it possible to restrict the frequency range for Audyssey calibration? For example, is it possible to have it calibrate the system only for under a certain frequency (say 400hz)? I am thinking about upgrading my AVR and would like to leave the higher frequencies alone and see if Audyssey could help <400hz or so.


Thanks!

No, there's no such user selectable menu setting in AVRs to restrict the frequency range for Audyssey. BTW, even with its full range feature you can see/hear the improvement below 400 Hz, right? Why do you want to limit the auto setup?
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