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"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2063

post #61861 of 70896
Quote:
My ceiling is similar to yours, but angled the other way. My Heights are traditional speakers, flush mounted on a high bookshelf, a foot & a half from the ceiling & sound fine in PLIiz & A-DSX Height.

Could you post a picture of your configuration?
post #61862 of 70896
I recently got a receiver with Multeq XT and have a question regarding the set up of my sub. My sub is a Velodyne DLS3750 and it has a different eq settings like jazz, movies, rock etc. Reading the manual has revealed that jazz is the reference setting, and the other settings have an eq tweak, volume boost etc applied to the reference setting.

With my old reciever (only had 2EQ) I would calibrate with the sub in jazz mode and then change the eq mode to movies if watching a movie and wouldn't worry about doing this because 2EQ wasn't doing anything to the sub. Now with my new reciever I'm not sure if I should be calibrating with the sub in jazz and then just leaving it alone, or calibrating it with the sub in movie mode, then leaving it alone, or calibrating in jazz mode and then using whatever sound mode I want depending on the source content.

Any opinions?
post #61863 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by judge_dredd View Post

I recently got a receiver with Multeq XT and have a question regarding the set up of my sub. My sub is a Velodyne DLS3750 and it has a different eq settings like jazz, movies, rock etc. Reading the manual has revealed that jazz is the reference setting, and the other settings have an eq tweak, volume boost etc applied to the reference setting.

With my old reciever (only had 2EQ) I would calibrate with the sub in jazz mode and then change the eq mode to movies if watching a movie and wouldn't worry about doing this because 2EQ wasn't doing anything to the sub. Now with my new reciever I'm not sure if I should be calibrating with the sub in jazz and then just leaving it alone, or calibrating it with the sub in movie mode, then leaving it alone, or calibrating in jazz mode and then using whatever sound mode I want depending on the source content.

Any opinions?

Audyssey doesn't EQ based on contents, but based on speaker-room interaction. When auto-setup is finished it doesn't matter what contents you are playing. smile.gif If it matters for you it means you are moving from "reference" setup to your own "preference" land. Though nothing wrong with that as long as you started out from "reference". smile.gif
post #61864 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

Audyssey did write back once and asked if the receiver had other options that could be triggering it. I told them it didn't. Since then I've never received a followup.

Who did you contact at Audyssey?
post #61865 of 70896
I used the ask audyssey link and received a reply from John.
post #61866 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

I used the ask audyssey link and received a reply from John.

Care to quote the whole Q & A?
post #61867 of 70896
I will, but please explain your interest in it?

Email I replied to below:

John Hager, May 02 11:33 am (PDT):
Hello,
Please confirm the phase control on the sub is set to 0° and the low pass filter knob on the subwoofer is set to bypass, and the level control has not been moved after calibration?

There may be a setting in your receiver that is adjusting the bass , if there is, turn it off.


Best regards,

John


Mo949, May 01 10:04 am (PDT):
My subwoofer rattles during movies with major effects when MultieEQ and Dynamic EQ are on (dennon 1612), but not when its off. My Subwoofer is a HRS 12 that is rated down to 18hz and has a 1000 watt amp. I have the sub gain at 3 (out of 10) and the audyssey trim is set to -0.5db after multieq setup. I really do not like my sound with audyssey set to off. My question is, how can I maintain that multieq/dynamic eq bass I love but eliminate the rattling during heavy effects sequences?

This email is a service from Ask Audyssey
post #61868 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Freund View Post

My only concern is that since the tweeter won't be pointing at the listener, it won't sound good.
For what you're going to use them for, they'll sound fine.

Speakers typically sound best pointed at the listener. And that kind of articulation is important when it comes to hearing dialogue and details in the front soundstage (L/C/R speakers). But it's not as necessary when it comes to more ambient content in the surrounds. Which is why you sometimes see people use dipole or bipole surrounds, where the drivers are not facing the listener.

Even though height speakers are in front of the listening position, their ambient content makes them closer to surround channels than the critical L/C/R channels. As such, the speakers used for heights need not be direct firing monopoles; and if they are monopoles, they don't have to be aimed precisely at the sweet spot.

With that in mind, mounting your height speakers flush with the wall will work fine for the type of content they're reproducing (irrespective of which height processing you're using: DSX, PLIIz, Neo:X). As long as they sound like they're above the soundstage, the effect is working.
post #61869 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by judge_dredd View Post

.. I'm not sure if I should be calibrating with the sub in jazz and then just leaving it alone, or calibrating it with the sub in movie mode, then leaving it alone, or calibrating in jazz mode and then using whatever sound mode I want depending on the source content. Any opinions?
I'd consult the Velo OM. My Velo DD10s allow me to disable absolutely all internal EQ in the sub, and I do that during Autosetup. I then switch to Action movie mode for that content and use Jazz for music.
post #61870 of 70896
Hey guys, i think i have a bad mic for my 818, when i run auddsey, i set the sub at 75db, thats the number it reads from the 818 mic on my tv screen, now when i use my RadioShack spl meter it reads 68db, something isn't right, has anybody had this problem?, also after i run Auddsey, the sound is awfull.
post #61871 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshjp View Post

Hey guys, i think i have a bad mic for my 818, when i run auddsey, i set the sub at 75db, thats the number it reads from the 818 mic on my tv screen, now when i use my RadioShack spl meter it reads 68db, something isn't right, has anybody had this problem?, also after i run Auddsey, the sound is awfull.
That is normal.
post #61872 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshjp View Post

Hey guys, i think i have a bad mic for my 818, when i run auddsey, i set the sub at 75db, thats the number it reads from the 818 mic on my tv screen, now when i use my RadioShack spl meter it reads 68db, something isn't right, has anybody had this problem?, also after i run Auddsey, the sound is awfull.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/51750#user_e3
post #61873 of 70896
Thanks again.
post #61874 of 70896
^OK, so the SPL reading issue may well be addressed in the referenced portion of the FAQ. But as to "the sound is awfull" comment, you'll need to be more specificif you have additional concerns other than SPL.
post #61875 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

^OK, so the SPL reading issue may well be addressed in the referenced portion of the FAQ. But as to "the sound is awfull" comment, you'll need to be more specificif you have additional concerns other than SPL.
As for the sound being awfull, After audssey it sounds vary vary bright, and the bass is also boomy.
post #61876 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshjp View Post

As for the sound being awfull, After audssey it sounds vary vary bright, and the bass is also boomy.

My Onkyo 709 was also too bright. I thought it was "just the way Audyssey sounded". Then once that piece of $h!^ finally failed, I bought a Denon with the same Audyssey XT, and the end result is fantastic. Some members here say there is no "global difference between manufacturers and Audyssey implementation" but I only know what I have personally heard in my room................Just my .02 based on my experience.
post #61877 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

My Onkyo 709 was also too bright. I thought it was "just the way Audyssey sounded". Then once that piece of $h!^ finally failed, I bought a Denon with the same Audyssey XT, and the end result is fantastic. Some members here say there is no "global difference between manufacturers and Audyssey implementation" but I only know what I have personally heard in my room................Just my .02 based on my experience.

Please do not spread out wrong information! What you heard in your room with the Onkyo should be subject to a massive troubleshooting spree and has nothing to do with your statement!
post #61878 of 70896
HELP!

Denon 791 owner. Just bought new L/R/C + Sub (NHT Classic Two Bookshelf, Absolute Center, Klipsh D12). I've run Audyssey half a dozen times with results all over the map. Crossover from the mains ranging from 80-250 seems change the most. Shouldn't these be operating at 80 at the very least? Is it because I have them flush with the cabinet?

I get 60 crossover for the rears every time and center varies from 90-100ish. My sofa back up against the back wall and I've been putting the tripod on the couch itself (bad idea?) I've also tried it on the floor in front with one leg on sofa also.

I've been doing about three seating points that cover the main areas on the couch (should I be doing more?). Also I always get -12 on the sub which I read is bad (maxed out?). I have the sub set to 0 volume but I've also tried at +5 (out of 12). I'm also confused if I should turn the sub to Lowpass 120KZ or Lowpass OFF LFE mode.

Your help is greatly appreciated. I'm no expert but enjoy good quality sound and want to get the most out of my system.


Edited by miked2023 - 5/5/13 at 1:09pm
post #61879 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Please do not spread out wrong information! What you heard in your room with the Onkyo should be subject to a massive troubleshooting spree and has nothing to do with your statement!

It is not wrong information. As I said very clearly, it was my experience, in my room. I know you are a big help in this thread, but to assume you know everything, and say that my experience is somehow wrong, is very arrogant. Several people in this winding novel of a thread have had a similar experience to me regarding their Onkyo's seeming too bright after calibration. You will always say it's the users fault during calibration, or if that fails, you will say it's a bad mic. I too can tell you to "Please do not spread out wrong information!"

Since none of us are in the others room, including you, we really don't know what the issue is. Sure, making sure the user has proper system setup and calibration procedures is a great place to start, and I will agree that is probably the reason for most issues regarding Audyssey result complaints, but there can, and will be other reasons too, and to turn a deaf ear on those possibilities is well, not much help.
post #61880 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

It is not wrong information. As I said very clearly, it was my experience, in my room. I know you are a big help in this thread, but to assume you know everything, and say that my experience is somehow wrong, is very arrogant. Several people in this winding novel of a thread have had a similar experience to me regarding their Onkyo's seeming too bright after calibration. You will always say it's the users fault during calibration, or if that fails, you will say it's a bad mic. I too can tell you to "Please do not spread out wrong information!"

Since none of us are in the others room, including you, we really don't know what the issue is. Sure, making sure the user has proper system setup and calibration procedures is a great place to start, and I will agree that is probably the reason for most issues regarding Audyssey result complaints, but there can, and will be other reasons too, and to turn a deaf ear on those possibilities is well, not much help.

Troubleshooting is the key word here dear D Bone! If you don't do troubleshooting you won't know what the problem was. You swapped Onkyo for a Denon. Fine. But that didn't solve the problem of the Onkyo's brightness in your room. Not so fine. cool.gif
post #61881 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Troubleshooting is the key word here dear D Bone! If you don't do troubleshooting you won't know what the problem was. You swapped Onkyo for a Denon. Fine. But that didn't solve the problem of the Onkyo's brightness in your room. Not so fine. cool.gif

I'm going to give you just one example regarding the THX certified Onkyo 709. When it was first designed and built, it shipped out to us all with a very, very severe issue regarding grey scale and the implementation of the highly respected Marvell Qdeo video chipset. When "Through" was set by the user, they grey scale has a very serious issue in which it turned the color of grey into brown. It was reported by many users, myself being one of the first, and it was eventually fixed by Onkyo in a firmware update.

What does this have to do with Audyssey? It goes to show that the end result of how a manufacturer implements 3rd party software into its product is far from perfect. This receiver was even THX certified, so not only did the Onkyo quality guys miss the defect, but apparently, so did the THX guys. This is not hyperbole, but it is fact. If it can happen with Marvell's stuff, then it can happen to Audyssey too, and to think it can't, is not very good troubleshooting dear mogorf!
post #61882 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

I'm going to give you just one example regarding the THX certified Onkyo 709. When it was first designed and built, it shipped out to us all with a very, very severe issue regarding grey scale and the implementation of the highly respected Marvell Qdeo video chipset. When "Through" was set by the user, they grey scale has a very serious issue in which it turned the color of grey into brown. It was reported by many users, myself being one of the first, and it was eventually fixed by Onkyo in a firmware update.

What does this have to do with Audyssey? It goes to show that the end result of how a manufacturer implements 3rd party software into its product is far from perfect. This receiver was even THX certified, so not only did the Onkyo quality guys miss the defect, but apparently, so did the THX guys. This is not hyperbole, but it is fact. If it can happen with Marvell's stuff, then it can happen to Audyssey too, and to think it can't, is not very good troubleshooting dear mogorf!

That story is indeed good troubleshooting, but swapping Onkyo for a Denon, um...
post #61883 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

That story is indeed good troubleshooting, but swapping Onkyo for a Denon, um...


I didn't "swap the Onkyo for a Denon" to troubleshoot my 709's unpleasant sound. It died of the notorious Onkyo HDMI board failure, and has been in the shop for over a month, with no end in sight. For what it's worth, I tried dozens of 8pt calibrations with the 709 to limit the harshness. I'm not going to itemize each and every method I used to try and make the Onkyo sound better, but rest assured, I tried everything that is listed in this thread, and like I earlier said, I thought "that was just how Audyssey was supposed to sound".

Enter the Denon........One 8pt calibration using the same set up procedure as my last Onkyo calibration. As I said in this thread earlier, I wrote down all of the measurements and the order of the mic placement during my last Onkyo calibration so if I had to ever go back to it, I could. I followed that procedure EXACTLY for the Denon, right down to the 1/4" (took 90 minutes). The end result is the best sound I have ever heard, in my room, with a receiver featuring Audyssey XT. I don't know what else to tell you about my experience, and from this point on, I will just let other readers decide if my experience is relevant to them or not.

The bottom line for D Bone, is awesome sound from Audyssey XT, implemented by Denon.
post #61884 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

I didn't "swap the Onkyo for a Denon" to troubleshoot my 709's unpleasant sound. It died of the notorious Onkyo HDMI board failure, and has been in the shop for over a month, with no end in sight. For what it's worth, I tried dozens of 8pt calibrations with the 709 to limit the harshness. I'm not going to itemize each and every method I used to try and make the Onkyo sound better, but rest assured, I tried everything that is listed in this thread, and like I earlier said, I thought "that was just how Audyssey was supposed to sound".

Enter the Denon........One 8pt calibration using the same set up procedure as my last Onkyo calibration. As I said in this thread earlier, I wrote down all of the measurements and the order of the mic placement during my last Onkyo calibration so if I had to ever go back to it, I could. I followed that procedure EXACTLY for the Denon, right down to the 1/4" (took 90 minutes). The end result is the best sound I have ever heard, in my room, with a receiver featuring Audyssey XT. I don't know what else to tell you about my experience, and from this point on, I will just let other readers decide if my experience is relevant to them or not.

The bottom line for D Bone, is awesome sound from Audyssey XT, implemented by Denon.

Let's agree that you didn't troubleshoot the Onkyo 709 for unpleasant sound issues. Enjoy your Denon to the brim! smile.gif Take care! wink.gif
post #61885 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Let's agree that you didn't troubleshoot the Onkyo 709 for unpleasant sound issues.


You are arrogant, that I'll give you. You're normally used to getting the last word, but I should tell you, so am I. Take care! wink.gif


Edit: The more I think of your last post, the more angry I get. I told you that I did multiple calibrations and I tried everything that is listed in this thread to fix my perceived harshness of my 709, and you call me either a liar or an incompetent user, or perhaps both, by flat out saying that I "didn't troubleshoot the Onkyo 709 for unpleasant sound issues"...............I bet Chris is just thrilled to have you in his corner.
Edited by D Bone - 5/5/13 at 2:39pm
post #61886 of 70896
Man, did I put up my post at the wrong time. If anyone can help me out please see my post above the back & forth arguing/name calling . Thanks.
post #61887 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by miked2023 View Post

Man, did I put up my post at the wrong time. If anyone can help me out please see my post above the back & forth arguing/name calling . Thanks.

My apologies for my part in that. Regarding the sub, yes put it in LFE mode, also it sounds as though the gain on the sub is too high. Turn it down until you get the sub trim closer to 0db. From the pic, can you move your Front L/R more towards the center of the cubby instead of right up against the edge?
post #61888 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

My apologies for my part in that. Regarding the sub, yes put it in LFE mode, also it sounds as though the gain on the sub is too high. Turn it down until you get the sub trim closer to 0db. From the pic, can you move your Front L/R more towards the center of the cubby instead of right up against the edge?

Haha - thanks for your reply. I already have the sub set to 0 but I can go negative if you think that's the way to go. WAF isn't gonna be high with them center but I'll give it a go and see what kind of results I get. Appreciate your help.

Also, does anyone think I should get a new mic? I'm worried mine may have gotten beat up in the move. Not sure how durable these things are.
post #61889 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by miked2023 View Post

1.  Denon 791 owner. Just bought new L/R/C + Sub (NHT Classic Two Bookshelf, Absolute Center, Klipsh D12). I've run Audyssey half a dozen times with results all over the map. Crossover from the mains ranging from 80-250 seems change the most. Shouldn't these be operating at 80 at the very least? Is it because I have them flush with the cabinet?

I get 60 crossover for the rears every time and center varies from 90-100ish. My sofa back up against the back wall and I've been putting the tripod on the couch itself (bad idea?) I've also tried it on the floor in front with one leg on sofa also.

I've been doing about three seating points that cover the main areas on the couch (should I be doing more?). Also I always get -12 on the sub which I read is bad (maxed out?). I have the sub set to 0 volume but I've also tried at +5 (out of 12). I'm also confused if I should turn the sub to Lowpass 120KZ or Lowpass OFF LFE mode.
 

1.  80 is optimistic for the -3dB point but the real problem is the niche in which the L/R speakers sit.  Flush with the front is good but the cavity, itself, will create irregular LF response whether you center them or not.  The ideal solution would be to fill the cavity (books?).  Another idea that might help would be to line the back of the cavity with 4-6" of compressed fiberglas covered with a suitable fabric.

 

2.  The rear and center results are reasonable although I do not know exactly how the rears are placed. 90-100Hz variation is not significant.  As for the tripod, placing it on a bouncy surface makes it susceptible to direct excitation by the bass and compromise the bass measurements.  A mic stand with a boom would be better but I doubt this is essential.

 

3.  If you are getting a sub setting of -12, you should turn the level on the sub to -12 and repeat the measurements.  Also, yes, use the Lowpass OFF-LFE mode/input on the sub.

 

Kal

post #61890 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

1.  80 is optimistic for the -3dB point but the real problem is the niche in which the L/R speakers sit.  Flush with the front is good but the cavity, itself, will create irregular LF response whether you center them or not.  The ideal solution would be to fill the cavity (books?).  Another idea that might help would be to line the back of the cavity with 4-6" of compressed fiberglas covered with a suitable fabric.

2.  The rear and center results are reasonable although I do not know exactly how the rears are placed. 90-100Hz variation is not significant.  As for the tripod, placing it on a bouncy surface makes it susceptible to direct excitation by the bass and compromise the bass measurements.  A mic stand with a boom would be better but I doubt this is essential.

3.  If you are getting a sub setting of -12, you should turn the level on the sub to -12 and repeat the measurements.  Also, yes, use the Lowpass OFF-LFE mode/input on the sub.

Kal

Thanks for the reply. These speakers don't have ports though. Does it matter what's in the cabinet still?
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