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"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2098

post #62911 of 70900
Delete
Edited by comfynumb - 6/27/13 at 5:29am
post #62912 of 70900
Having spent a week in Germany at the tender/thirsty age of 18; I was able to appreciate the value of "warmer" beers.
However - I will also say there is little that is more refreshing than an ice-cold Pilsner, after a hard days work.

I guess what I am saying is Beer is kind of like $#x, It is seldom bad.
post #62913 of 70900
If its all getting deleted anyway... had this badboy last night http://www.stonebrewing.com/ruinten/ and I got to say its really darn good.


Down here in San Diego we take our beer quite seriously as well. Keith is a 100% right that the colder something is, the less your tongue can taste, which is why I never put ice in my whiskey or water. Somethings though are created with the intention of their taste at colder temperatures, such as ice cream or even salsa that's going to be served chilled, you have to add more sugar or salt respectively to account for taste fluctuations at the colder temperature. To bring this all around, imagine it sort of like a Dynamic EQ accounting for below reference temperature tasting biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif
Edited by mo949 - 6/26/13 at 8:48am
post #62914 of 70900
smile.gif
Edited by comfynumb - 6/27/13 at 5:30am
post #62915 of 70900
Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

To bring this all around, imagine it sort of like a Dynamic EQ accounting for below reference temperature tasting biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

 

Really neat link back to Audyssey cool.gif

post #62916 of 70900
Glad you like it wink.gif. I'm certainly an Audyssey dynamic EQ fan since it definitely makes the surround/bass presence known. I only watch movies though, so not sure I'd like it for video games and music.
post #62917 of 70900
Jonathonc,

I agree something is definitely going on there. The response appears almost as if the subs are not even ON with the second sweep. when you ran audyssey did it confirm that you are using a sub channel?
post #62918 of 70900
Quote:
Originally Posted by LanceX View Post

I usually listen to my movies loud though, so does it matter if Dyn EQ is on if volume is high?

No, because Dynamic EQ is intended to operate when you are playing a source at below reference level (and the Audyssey calibration has set your main volume control to produce that level at 0 dB). So as you get louder and louder (negative volume settings), DynEQ gradually has less effect until it is not doing anything when your main volume dial is set to 0 dB. In my home, with my ears and listening room, most movies are plenty loud at -24 to -20 dB; I have never turned the dial up to zero for anything...
post #62919 of 70900
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Jonathonc,

I agree something is definitely going on there. The response appears almost as if the subs are not even ON with the second sweep. when you ran audyssey did it confirm that you are using a sub channel?

Thinking back, I may have switched it to "pure audio" which very well may disable the crossover and bass management on the 818. Perhaps I should have used direct. I will remeasure.

My front speakers (klipsch RF3) roll off right around 40hz which would explain everything.

Anyone know which mode disables Audyssey but keeps bass management on the Onkyo 818 ?
post #62920 of 70900
It's not going to be a surround mode, you just want to manually turn Audyssey OFF in the EQ settings.

As you infer, DIRECT modes typically disable bass management.
post #62921 of 70900
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathanc View Post

Thinking back, I may have switched it to "pure audio" which very well may disable the crossover and bass management on the 818. Perhaps I should have used direct. I will remeasure.

My front speakers (klipsch RF3) roll off right around 40hz which would explain everything.

Anyone know which mode disables Audyssey but keeps bass management on the Onkyo 818 ?

Well, that would certainly explain the graph peculiarity. As BP says, just turn Audyssey off in the EQ menu, and make sure everything else is the same. Looking forward to your new measurements.
post #62922 of 70900
Here are some updated measurements from the main listening position:

Bass sweep no EQ:


Bass Sweep with EQ:
Notice the huge dip at 100hz is gone. The Dip at 275hz is improved. This dip coincides with a spike (or dip, cant remember) with the phase graph. I don't understand how to read phase, or how exactly it affects my plot, can someone weigh in ?


Here is a Full Range sweep, with EQ, and Audyssey's Movie curve.


I can't remember if I had sound going to BOTH front speakers or just the left. I know my left has a dip somewhere I suspect because it is right beside an open door that leads to my equipment room. So this might be the subs interacting with just the left speaker. Either way, it looks great at the 80hz crossover.

Managed to bottom out the subs at 2hz or so when I tried cranking the volume up to reference. I will remember next time not to play 2hz sign waves at -0db.
post #62923 of 70900
Jonathan, is there a question in your post? The bass response looks reasonable, although the graphs would be easier to interpret if you set the left and right limits to 15Hz and 300Hz, respectively. And bass response is normally presented with no smoothing.
post #62924 of 70900
No question. Earlier I posted a graph asking about Audyssey, however after posting I noticed the measurements were wrong, I posted new measurements to remove confusion.
post #62925 of 70900
Good Morning:

My apologies up front for posting this question here, but I am under a time crunch and I have not been able to get a response from the Onkyo TX-NR818 thread. From being on this thread, I have learned two things. First, many of you have experience with the 818. Secondly, and most important, you as a group are extremely responsive and helpful. This is just a great thread. Here goes:

I have noticed that the 818 has Zone 2 and Zone 3 line out jacks (See the manual, p. 11, Rear panel diagram, #10)

Could these be used for a sub out using the crossover in the sub?

If so, then I could do this wirelessly, using Rocketfish, or some other wireless sub kit?

Again, I apologize for the ill-fit of this post here, but my helper is arriving this morning and I need some guidance as soon as possible.

Which leads to SOME Audyssey content: We will be installing my new side surrounds (dipoles) and moving my current side surrounds into front wide duty. I am about to enter the 9.2 zone...biggrin.gif

Thank you all very much.

Just Nick
post #62926 of 70900
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Nick View Post

Good Morning:

My apologies up front for posting this question here, but I am under a time crunch and I have not been able to get a response from the Onkyo TX-NR818 thread. From being on this thread, I have learned two things. First, many of you have experience with the 818. Secondly, and most important, you as a group are extremely responsive and helpful. This is just a great thread. Here goes:

I have noticed that the 818 has Zone 2 and Zone 3 line out jacks (See the manual, p. 11, Rear panel diagram, #10)

Could these be used for a sub out using the crossover in the sub?

If so, then I could do this wirelessly, using Rocketfish, or some other wireless sub kit?

Again, I apologize for the ill-fit of this post here, but my helper is arriving this morning and I need some guidance as soon as possible.

Which leads to SOME Audyssey content: We will be installing my new side surrounds (dipoles) and moving my current side surrounds into front wide duty. I am about to enter the 9.2 zone...biggrin.gif

Thank you all very much.

Just Nick

 

Given that the zone 2/3 line out jacks are designed to drive a two-channel amplifier, there would seem to be no reason why it couldn't drive the amplifier in a subwoofer, using one of the L or R outlets. But what would be the point of that? What exactly are you trying to achieve?  If you are using the Wide/Zone 2 speaker terminals to take speakers to Zone 2 then the 818 is not designed to use a sub in that Zone. Onkyo are assuming that zone 2 will be a 2.0 configuration and haven't made any provision for 2.1.

 

If you connect the line outs to a 2 ch amp for zone 2, then you would connect the zone 2 speakers to that amp - that is how Onkyo intend the unit to be used.

 

If the sub in zone 2 has speaker level terminals, then you could connect the zone 2 speakers to those I guess and then on to the 818 zone 2 speaker terminals. But it all seems to be a dreadful kludge and may not even work.  if you have the subm why not just try your idea and see. A wireless gizmo is just as likely to work (or not) in that config as any other.

 

The 818 isn’t designed to be used in the way you are trying to use it. That doesn't mean you can't, but if you do, there can be no guarantee it will work as expected.


Edited by kbarnes701 - 6/27/13 at 7:13am
post #62927 of 70900
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post #62928 of 70900
Dear Keith:

As usual, thank you for being so responsive. I realize my original post was pretty vague, but I did not want to clog this thread unnecessarily. My Zone 2 disappears in a couple of hours, as it will become front wides. This leaves Zone 3 for my 2 channel setup in an adjoining room. I was hoping against hope there was some way for me to incorporate a powered subwoofer in this adjoining room, and thus turn the 818's Zone 3 into a 2.1. and given that my Zone 3 speakers are already installing in the ceiling, I was REALLY hoping against hope that this could be done wirelessly.

Am I barking up the wrong tree?

Thank you again, very much.

Just Nick
post #62929 of 70900
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Nick View Post

Dear Keith:

As usual, thank you for being so responsive. I realize my original post was pretty vague, but I did not want to clog this thread unnecessarily. My Zone 2 disappears in a couple of hours, as it will become front wides. This leaves Zone 3 for my 2 channel setup in an adjoining room. I was hoping against hope there was some way for me to incorporate a powered subwoofer in this adjoining room, and thus turn the 818's Zone 3 into a 2.1. and given that my Zone 3 speakers are already installing in the ceiling, I was REALLY hoping against hope that this could be done wirelessly.

Am I barking up the wrong tree?

Thank you again, very much.

Just Nick

 

Ah right - so you will no longer be able to connect your zone 2 speakers to the 818 because the terminals will be in use for wide channels.

 

Then AFAICT the only option you have for zone 2 is to use the zone 2 preouts on the 818 to connect to a 2 channel amp (the amps have to come from somewhere and if not from the 818 then from an external amp).  You will then connect the zone 2 speakers to the new 2 channel amp.

 

If your sub for zone 2 has speaker level terminals, then you can use those to connect the sub to the new amp and then connect the L & R speakers to the same terminals and use the sub's built in controls for crossover and volume.  If the sub only has a line level input then you are stuffed I am afraid. 

 

You will not be able to use the wireless gizmo if you connect the sub to the speaker level terminals AIUI. 

 

I have always thought the zones are more trouble than they are worth. Personally, I'd just buy a cheap or secondhand AVR for the other zone and then I could have any configuration I want. If you want to play the same content in zone 1 and zone 2 at the same time, then you will have to use the suggestion above or just have a 2.0 system. If using a 2.0 system, then I'd go for tower speakers with a decent bass response - that would give you a decent stereo system in zone 2.

 

Hope this helps rather than confuses. I am about to go out with my dog now so I will be away for 90 minutes or so if you have any supplementary questions, but TBH I have exhausted my knowledge of the topic anyway :)

post #62930 of 70900
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathanc View Post

No question. Earlier I posted a graph asking about Audyssey, however after posting I noticed the measurements were wrong, I posted new measurements to remove confusion.

Lookin good man. I like that dip you have around 1-2khz, I bet that takes a little of the harshness out. The slight slope across the entire bandwidth is nice too something I wish I could recreate in my own theater smile.gif Everyone wants dead flat, and I have dead flat, but alas I prefer a house curve like yours and for no good reason, I can't get that to happen, haha.
post #62931 of 70900
Also, your system is not bottoming out at 2hz, the rolloff of your signal chain won't allow that to happen really. Unless you are rockin a rotary sub, that is.
post #62932 of 70900
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Nick View Post

Dear Keith:

As usual, thank you for being so responsive. I realize my original post was pretty vague, but I did not want to clog this thread unnecessarily. My Zone 2 disappears in a couple of hours, as it will become front wides. This leaves Zone 3 for my 2 channel setup in an adjoining room. I was hoping against hope there was some way for me to incorporate a powered subwoofer in this adjoining room, and thus turn the 818's Zone 3 into a 2.1. and given that my Zone 3 speakers are already installing in the ceiling, I was REALLY hoping against hope that this could be done wirelessly.

Am I barking up the wrong tree?

Thank you again, very much.

Just Nick

Despite Keith's pessimism, I do think you can do what you describe. Y cables could be used to split Zone 3's RCA outputs to connect both L & R outputs to a powered subwoofer and to a wireless transmitter. I'm assuming, of course, that you have a subwoofer with both L & R line-level RCA inputs.

Of course, you'd need another AVR with Audyssey if you want to EQ the audio in the other room. Audyssey processing is applied only to the main Zone. I seem to recall that EQing in-ceiling speakers can be problematic because their sounds are coming from above and thus aren't tangential to the calibration microphone's input.
post #62933 of 70900
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

I seem to recall that EQing in-ceiling speakers can be problematic because their sounds are coming from above and thus aren't tangential to the calibration microphone's input.

Hi Selden, care to expand a bit on what specific problems are supposed to occur?
post #62934 of 70900
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

I seem to recall that EQing in-ceiling speakers can be problematic because their sounds are coming from above and thus aren't tangential to the calibration microphone's input.

Hi Selden, care to expand a bit on what specific problems are supposed to occur?

My recollection is rather vague. I seem to recall that abnormally low crossover frequencies were one symptom.

Chris Kyriakakis wrote something about it at https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries/73284-Microphone-placement-
Quote:
Since your speakers are in the ceiling it can be beneficial to tilt the mic back slightly so that sound from the speakers hits the mic at a grazing angle.
post #62935 of 70900
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

My recollection is rather vague. I seem to recall that abnormally low crossover frequencies were one symptom.

Chris Kyriakakis wrote something about it at https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries/73284-Microphone-placement-

AFAIK, the mic orientation only affects the high frequency range, mostly at or above 12 kHz where there is really not much contents to be heard. This is due to differences in sensitivity of a typical condenser mic capsule at such high audio frequencies vs. its orientation.



Couldn't read out the "abnormally low crossovers" from Chris's quote, though! eek.gif
Edited by mogorf - 6/27/13 at 2:37pm
post #62936 of 70900
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

My recollection is rather vague. I seem to recall that abnormally low crossover frequencies were one symptom.

Chris Kyriakakis wrote something about it at https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries/73284-Microphone-placement-

I cant see anything here about ceiling speakers but I would really like to read it. I know something is up with Audyssey and ceiling speakers!!!!
post #62937 of 70900
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

My recollection is rather vague. I seem to recall that abnormally low crossover frequencies were one symptom.

Chris Kyriakakis wrote something about it at https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries/73284-Microphone-placement-

I cant see anything here about ceiling speakers but I would really like to read it. I know something is up with Audyssey and ceiling speakers!!!!
post #62938 of 70900
Ceiling speakers are problematic with Audyssey Room EQ and there was plenty of talk about it in this thread years ago. In fact if you put "ceiling" in the Search This Thread function you get 1454 hits.
post #62939 of 70900
And the dumb question of the day goes to...

So striving to be a good Audyssey devotee, I purchased the boom mic stand recommended in the FAQ (which, by the way, has been printed off and reside under my pillow). Here is what I ordered:

http://www.amazon.com/Stage-Stands-MS7701-Tripod-Microphone/dp/B000978D58

What came in the box was the tripod base and the first length of pipe. Straight as an arrow. There was no boom.

Was this an error, or is the boom sold separately. From the looks of the link, it should have shipped with the boom.

So before I embarrass myself with Amazon, I thought I would embarrass myself here.

???

Thank you.

Just Nick
post #62940 of 70900
^^ I just received the same thing in the mail I hope the boom is in there, I didn't open it up yet.
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