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"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2110

post #63271 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Lay it on us Sanjay, the know-how to make every seat have the same problem.
What is the length and width of your room Feri?
post #63272 of 70896
^^ and very smart and and helpful and nice guys on this thread also. As an Audyssey newbie I've learned a lot already, so thanks. I figured after yesterday a positive post couldn't hurt one bit smile.gif
post #63273 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

BTW, with only one post, how do you get 10 'thumbs ups', especially as that one post has none?  Just interested...
You start off with 10 thumbs up (i.e., get 10 points for joining AVS).

 

Well I never! In that case, Sanjay, as this post was definitely helpful, have another one on me! :)

post #63274 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Yes, numerous among us do it that way. Some of us have only one listener who is critical (my own situation) and we cluster the mic pattern more tightly around the MLP. This is contrary to Audyssey's instructions, so must be regarded as somewhat arcane, but some have measured their response using the mic positions as instructed and also in this way, and not only do they hear an improvement from clustering around the MLP, but they also measure an improvement. YMMV.

If you search this thread you will find considerable discussion of the topic.



That's good to know and it makes a lot of sense to me. Im the only one in my house that cares about the sound that much anyway. My 17 year old son is medically attached to his earbuds and ps3 blue tooth. I need no wife approval but I have a gf that has a better ear than most men I've met. Thanks kb smile.gif

 

You're welcome. Do remember that this is not SOP though. I have tried it all ways - I have used a wide spread pattern based exactly on Audyssey guidelines and I have used a very, very tight pattern and pretty much everything in between. I am currently using a fairly tight pattern around the MLP (1ft spacings) for 8 measurements, with 2 additional ones on the other seat (I use Pro which allows me more spots than XT32). Over the various trials, I have come to the conclusion that, for me anyway, the tight pattern around the MLP gives me a better result - but only for the MLP of course. But that is all I care about. Whenever I have gone back to a wider pattern I have eventually abandoned it and gone back to the tighter pattern. If I was concerned about multiple listeners, I would definitely follow the Audyssey recommended SOP.

post #63275 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

What is the length and width of your room Feri?

Size of the living room:

Length: 13 feet/ 4 meters
Width: 12 feet/ 3.7 meters
Height: 10 feet/ 3.1 meters
post #63276 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post


It would also be interesting to hear the opinion of someone who has done both ways but finally returned to the wide clustering method (as the maker recommends even for a single listener).

Anyone?

 

Well, as I reported in an earlier post, I ran a fresh Pro calibration yesterday.  Given the recent discussion regarding a tight mic placement vs. the mic placement that is the default recommendation by Audyssey, I decided to experiment.  I am like Keith and several others in this thread--for 95% of the time, I am the only listener.  I have only two chairs in my listening room, and the chair I sit in is centered so that I benefit from being in the sweet spot.  For quite some time, my mic positioning has been "tight", i.e. no more than 12 inches in any direction from the MLP.  I have experimented with up to 14 mic positions, but am back to 8 positions because I have never perceived, nor measured, any improvement by adding the additional positions above 8.

 

Yesterday, I decided to use a more Feri-like (wink.gif ) mic positioning, i.e. 24 inches between mic positions.  I have only had several hours of exposure to the new calibration, but I always play several familiar music pieces, both 2ch and Mch, in order to assess the calibration.  TBH, I cannot hear any difference.  Both the "tight" and the "traditional" mic placements produce excellent sound at the MLP.  And before you ask, I don't care about any other listening positions.  Unfortunately, I was not able to use measurements to spot any differences, because there were other factors in my listening room that had changed (new window treatments, as reported earlier).

 

So, my initial conclusion would be that it probably doesn't make a whole lot of difference, especially if the objective is to optimize a single listening point.  What mic pattern will I use in the future?  Probably the "tight" pattern, simply because the mic placements are a bit easier.

 

I think it is important too to remember that you have a very well-treated room and that you have taken infinite care over speaker and sub placement. All of that will make Audyssey less and less useful to you - it has now become the icing on the cake, so any differences will be small. I have been very surprised since treating the room, moving speakers and subs etc at just how little Audyssey is now adding to my sound - not that I would want to be without it as practical issues mean I will never be able to get the room totally 'right' so even a small difference from Audyssey is valued.  But these days, the system is very listenable-to even with Audyssey switched off altogether. Turning it on makes a small, but valued, improvement though. 

post #63277 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

You're welcome. Do remember that this is not SOP though. I have tried it all ways - I have used a wide spread pattern based exactly on Audyssey guidelines and I have used a very, very tight pattern and pretty much everything in between. I am currently using a fairly tight pattern around the MLP (1ft spacings) for 8 measurements, with 2 additional ones on the other seat (I use Pro which allows me more spots than XT32). Over the various trials, I have come to the conclusion that, for me anyway, the tight pattern around the MLP gives me a better result - but only for the MLP of course. But that is all I care about. Whenever I have gone back to a wider pattern I have eventually abandoned it and gone back to the tighter pattern. If I was concerned about multiple listeners, I would definitely follow the Audyssey recommended SOP.

Keith, care to share/describe what difference you heard between different patterns and among them what was it that finally satisfied your ears? During the pattern changes was you room already treated acustically? Jerry's excellent post today is shreading some light on the case that whenever a room is highly treated the less the patternt accounts for differences. smile.gif
post #63278 of 70896
ok just redone the Audyssey calibration and this is what I got

Distance Check
Front L 9.8ft
Front R 9.9 ft
Center 9.9ft
Subwoofer 13.0 ft
Surround L 29.8 ft
Surround R 29.8 ft

this numbers right here was the numbers before the new calibration
Front L -1.0 db
Center -1.5 DB
Front R -1.0 DB
Surround R -3.0 DB
Surround L -3.0 DB
Subwoofer 0.0db

these are the new numbers after the calibration
Front L -0.5db
Center -2.5db
Front R -1.0db
Surround R +11.00
Surround L +6.5 db
Subwoofer +3.5db

Crossover Freq Check
Front 100 hz
Center 100 hz
Surround 80hz

Dynamic Volume is on


see how much it changed
post #63279 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamafan35611 View Post

in your guys opinion how well does the Audyssey calibration work?

 

There's no simple answer to that. XT doesn’t work as well as XT32, ever, for example. If you have an untreated room and have taken no especial care with speaker and sub placement, Audyssey will give a different result than if you had set up differently.  As always, it is the room that has the most significant impact on the final sound and that is where the biggest benefits will always come from - from getting the room right and getting speaker and sub placements optimised (the latter being a free 'upgrade'). 

 

For most people, Audyssey works very well indeed and gives a fabulous difference. In my own case, before I added treatments and optimised speaker placement, the sound was unlistenable-to without Audyssey. Literally, it was awful and Audyssey made a fantastic difference. Since treating the room and optimising speaker and sub placement, Audyssey makes a lot less difference and I could (but wouldn't) listen without Audyssey engaged and not be too disappointed.  XT32 is definitely a worthwhile tool in anyone's acoustic box.

post #63280 of 70896
A distance of 29.8 feet looks suspect. Could be some sort of a delay being introduced by the wireless connection.

Are you going to follow my recommendations posted earlier?
post #63281 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

A distance of 29.8 feet looks suspect. Could be some sort of a delay being introduced by the wireless connection.

Are you going to follow my recommendations posted earlier?



at this time i have no way of doing that i am fixing to listen to some dolby digital and dts and dolby true hd clips to see how it sounds
post #63282 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamafan35611 View Post

is there anyone here willing to help me

 

I will help you if I can. But you need to be very specific about your setup, your room and the precise nature of the problem you have. It has been suggested that you read the Audyssey FAQ linked in my sig and this is essential, otherwise we will just be going over ground that has already been covered and that is a waste of everyone's time. Please read the FAQ and then come back with the specifics of your problem, if it is not covered in the FAQ of course, and we will be able to help you. Photos of the room would also be useful. together with an equipment list. 

post #63283 of 70896
i have my wireless reciever volume set to the half way point should that be about right or should i lower it or raise it
post #63284 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I will help you if I can. But you need to be very specific about your setup, your room and the precise nature of the problem you have. It has been suggested that you read the Audyssey FAQ linked in my sig and this is essential, otherwise we will just be going over ground that has already been covered and that is a waste of everyone's time. Please read the FAQ and then come back with the specifics of your problem, if it is not covered in the FAQ of course, and we will be able to help you. Photos of the room would also be useful. together with an equipment list. 

Keith, bamafan's issue is not listed in the FAQ, but read the thread, ...help is already on the way...
post #63285 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamafan35611 View Post

i have my wireless reciever volume set to the half way point should that be about right or should i lower it or raise it

No need to change anything, your trims are fine. Just follow Jerry's recommendations, please. smile.gif
post #63286 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamafan35611 View Post

ok I will tell you everything you need to know. I have a Denon 591 and i have to use the Rocketfish Wireless Kit for my surround sound speakers due to running wires is almost impossible. As of right now it just seems my surround sound dont have the full effect that it should. I am not sure if i have my speakers in the correct place I dont know if my DB is set right for each speaker. Also when I am watching a loud action movie my 2 surround sound speakers sometimes crack and pop. I have ran the audyssey setup i know 3 times and then i manually try to fix the DB of my speakers to try to fix this problem. I really dont know what else you need to know please ask me and I will tell.

 

What version of Audyssey does your AVR have?

 

What make and model are your speakers?

 

Can you let us see a diagram and/or photo of the room showing the position of all speakers and furniture - a photo is easiest?

 

What setting on the master volume control do you usually listen at?

 

What setting on the MV causes the 'pop's you are hearing?

 

Do the pops disappear if you turn down the MV?

 

Have you followed precisely every step in the Audyssey 101 linked in my signature?

 


EDIT: because I started 3 pages back, the above isn't all that relevant now, but I will leave the post in place as it gives some indication of the type of info we need in order tio be able to help.


Edited by kbarnes701 - 7/5/13 at 1:52pm
post #63287 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamafan35611 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post

Nothing wrong with those numbers....

see that is my numbers when i run audyssey the numbers are SO MUCH different

 

it's the numbers Audyssey sets that we need to know.

post #63288 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamafan35611 View Post

i have my wireless reciever volume set to the half way point should that be about right or should i lower it or raise it

Who knows? You need to play the receiver's speaker level test tones and adjust the wireless gain so it produces a 75dB level. Do you have a SPL meter? If not, try adjusting the surround level to match the levels of the front speakers, based on alternating the test tone between the speakers and using your ears.

Don't ask us if the halfway point is OK, because we have no way of knowing.

And why can't you follow my recommendations? Don't you have some wire?
post #63289 of 70896
ok my surround sound speakers are popping you seen my numbers where should i try for my surround sound?
post #63290 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

You're welcome. Do remember that this is not SOP though. I have tried it all ways - I have used a wide spread pattern based exactly on Audyssey guidelines and I have used a very, very tight pattern and pretty much everything in between. I am currently using a fairly tight pattern around the MLP (1ft spacings) for 8 measurements, with 2 additional ones on the other seat (I use Pro which allows me more spots than XT32). Over the various trials, I have come to the conclusion that, for me anyway, the tight pattern around the MLP gives me a better result - but only for the MLP of course. But that is all I care about. Whenever I have gone back to a wider pattern I have eventually abandoned it and gone back to the tighter pattern. If I was concerned about multiple listeners, I would definitely follow the Audyssey recommended SOP.

Keith, care to share/describe what difference you heard between different patterns and among them what was it that finally satisfied your ears? During the pattern changes was you room already treated acustically? Jerry's excellent post today is shreading some light on the case that whenever a room is highly treated the less the patternt accounts for differences. smile.gif

 

I have done it every whichway over the years, Feri, both in an untreated room and in the room in its current, highly treated state. The difference these days isn’t much, as Jerry found and that is because, IMO, Audyssey contributes less when the room is good to begin with. Audyssey then becomes the icing on the cake and not the cake itself :)

 

When the room was untreated, the difference between the tight cluster and the SOP pattern was that the tight cluster seemed to give better imaging and a smoother overall response. That was all subjective as in those days I didn’t have any measuring equipment, but I did numerous Audyssey runs and always gravitated back towards the tight cluster. 

 

For me, the biggest, hugest difference in SQ came with the addition of the treatments and these days, although I still do the tight cluster (plus 2 spots in the other seat) I agree with Jerry that it probably makes a lot less difference.

post #63291 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamafan35611 View Post

i have my wireless reciever volume set to the half way point should that be about right or should i lower it or raise it

 

Follow Jerry's advice for setting the gain on the wireless gizmo.

post #63292 of 70896
i am lowering the db of the surround sound it seems to be helping it does anything change if i change the ft of the speakers cause i know the surround sound isnt 28 ft away lol
post #63293 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I will help you if I can. But you need to be very specific about your setup, your room and the precise nature of the problem you have. It has been suggested that you read the Audyssey FAQ linked in my sig and this is essential, otherwise we will just be going over ground that has already been covered and that is a waste of everyone's time. Please read the FAQ and then come back with the specifics of your problem, if it is not covered in the FAQ of course, and we will be able to help you. Photos of the room would also be useful. together with an equipment list. 

Keith, bamafan's issue is not listed in the FAQ, but read the thread, ...help is already on the way...

 

So I see. I started three pages behind this evening. It seems to be the wireless gizmo that is causing the issues.

post #63294 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I have done it every whichway over the years, Feri, both in an untreated room and in the room in its current, highly treated state. The difference these days isn’t much, as Jerry found and that is because, IMO, Audyssey contributes less when the room is good to begin with. Audyssey then becomes the icing on the cake and not the cake itself smile.gif

When the room was untreated, the difference between the tight cluster and the SOP pattern was that the tight cluster seemed to give better imaging and a smoother overall response. That was all subjective as in those days I didn’t have any measuring equipment, but I did numerous Audyssey runs and always gravitated back towards the tight cluster. 

For me, the biggest, hugest difference in SQ came with the addition of the treatments and these days, although I still do the tight cluster (plus 2 spots in the other seat) I agree with Jerry that it probably makes a lot less difference.

Great post Keith, thanks. BTW, what does "SOP" stand for? cool.gif
post #63295 of 70896
Standard Operating Procedure. In other words, "by the book", or according to the Audyssey recommendation.
post #63296 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamafan35611 View Post

i am lowering the db of the surround sound it seems to be helping it does anything change if i change the ft of the speakers cause i know the surround sound isnt 28 ft away lol

 

The advice you are getting is that it is probably the wireless gizmo that is the problem. You will have to eliminate this as a cause before anyone can help you further. Jerry has given you a perfect protocol for doing this, so please follow it and then report back. You surely can temporarily connect the surround speakers with some wire?  The smart money is already on the wireless gizmo - you will have to demonstrate that the problem continues even if you use a wired connection before anyone can go to the next step. There is definitely something suspect about the 28-ish feet distance for the surrounds and the odds are that this is the wireless gizmo that is causing the issue. 

post #63297 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I have done it every whichway over the years, Feri, both in an untreated room and in the room in its current, highly treated state. The difference these days isn’t much, as Jerry found and that is because, IMO, Audyssey contributes less when the room is good to begin with. Audyssey then becomes the icing on the cake and not the cake itself smile.gif

When the room was untreated, the difference between the tight cluster and the SOP pattern was that the tight cluster seemed to give better imaging and a smoother overall response. That was all subjective as in those days I didn’t have any measuring equipment, but I did numerous Audyssey runs and always gravitated back towards the tight cluster. 

For me, the biggest, hugest difference in SQ came with the addition of the treatments and these days, although I still do the tight cluster (plus 2 spots in the other seat) I agree with Jerry that it probably makes a lot less difference.

Great post Keith, thanks. BTW, what does "SOP" stand for? cool.gif

 

Standard Operating Procedure. :) Sorry, I use too many TLA's I know ;)

post #63298 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Standard Operating Procedure. In other words, "by the book", or according to the Audyssey recommendation.

So SOP = BTB = ATTAR.

Gotcha! wink.gifsmile.gifcool.gif
post #63299 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

The advice you are getting is that it is probably the wireless gizmo that is the problem. You will have to eliminate this as a cause before anyone can help you further. Jerry has given you a perfect protocol for doing this, so please follow it and then report back. You surely can temporarily connect the surround speakers with some wire?  The smart money is already on the wireless gizmo - you will have to demonstrate that the problem continues even if you use a wired connection before anyone can go to the next step. There is definitely something suspect about the 28-ish feet distance for the surrounds and the odds are that this is the wireless gizmo that is causing the issue. 

Agree that the wireless gizmo is probably doing something bad, but the in-curcuit delay resulting in a setting of the surround distances to almost 30 ft. might not neccesarely be responsible for the popping and crackning sounds, IMHO. smile.gif
post #63300 of 70896
has anyone ever used sound meters that you can get for your smart phone?
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