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post #64681 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

In the Harman listening tests, almost nobody, AIUI, liked a flat response. See the post a few posts back for what they did like. 'Perceptually flat' sums it up nicely as opposed to 'measured flat'.

Audyssey is just one tool in the box for many. For some, of course, it is the only tool in the box and then you right IMO - it can do so much but it is not a magic wand. Acoustic treatments, careful choice of speakers and subs and optimised placement are the real route to good SQ - with Audyssey as the icing.

Kind of reminds me of what people think 'vanilla' is. Pure vanilla extract is very bitter, and only useful in small amounts. OTOH, add some sugar or other sweetener and it helps you bring out flavors. OTOH, a cake with lots of pure vanilla bean and no sweetening would taste awful, no matter how good quality the other ingredients are.
post #64682 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Because of our different time zones, you've already had good replies from the other guys. Yes, two different things. Which you want first depends on what you want to do most - measure or optimise. As I said before, I’d go for measuring first. Then you will know exactly what your room is doing with your speakers and subs - this may lead you into wanting Pro, or possibly other solutions such as treatments or PEQ. XT32 is really, really good - Pro is an incremental upgrade, not a 'night and day' difference. But optimising speaker and sub placement and adding treatments really can be a 'night and day' difference. That's the way I'd do it anyway (having experienced doing it the other way around and getting Pro before REW).

Thanks for good advice. I will do REW first. I ordered UMIK-1 yesterday but got email today saying they are out of stock and not shipping for a while. mad.gif

For hand held SPL, is there one where you can have it record the MAX value over a certain time period and then let me clear the MAX value and start again?
For some movies like Terminator Salvation it gets REALLY loud briefly so i'd like to know the MAX value without carefully watching SPL display
(but i did increase the sound going to my two f113s from the baseline xt32 values - maybe that was it).
post #64683 of 70896
For those worrying that the soundtrack they have on Blu-ray might not be accurate to what they heard in the cinema, don't stress it: what you heard in the cinema might not be what you think you heard.



So much for an industry-wide reference standard.
post #64684 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by bao01 View Post


Thanks for good advice. I will do REW first. I ordered UMIK-1 yesterday but got email today saying they are out of stock and not shipping for a while. mad.gif

For hand held SPL, is there one where you can have it record the MAX value over a certain time period and then let me clear the MAX value and start again?
For some movies like Terminator Salvation it gets REALLY loud briefly so i'd like to know the MAX value without carefully watching SPL display
(but i did increase the sound going to my two f113s from the baseline xt32 values - maybe that was it).

 

Not Keith, but I don't know any basic SPL's that continuously record sound levels.  The REW SPL tool has a logging capability that allows you to bring up a window on the laptop and continuously record SPL levels.  This would fit what you are asking for.

 

You also can use an SPL with REW if you purchase a separate outboard USB sound card (e.g. the SoundBlaster XFi).  Using the external sound card, you would be able to use the REW SPL logger as well.  Of course, this is an added expense that would not be required if you get the USB mic.

 

Another option is the AudioTools app for your iPhone or iPad (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/audiotools/id325307477?mt=8).  It provides a reasonably accurate SPL for quick and dirty measurements, and might meet your requirements until the mic gets there.  Note that the AudioTools SPL does have a "max" indicator.

 

post #64685 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Not Keith, but I don't know any basic SPL's that continuously record sound levels.  The REW SPL tool has a logging capability that allows you to bring up a window on the laptop and continuously record SPL levels.  This would fit what you are asking for.

You also can use an SPL with REW if you purchase a separate outboard USB sound card (e.g. the SoundBlaster XFi).  Using the external sound card, you would be able to use the REW SPL logger as well.  Of course, this is an added expense that would not be required if you get the USB mic.

Another option is the AudioTools app for your iPhone or iPad (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/audiotools/id325307477?mt=8).  It provides a reasonably accurate SPL for quick and dirty measurements, and might meet your requirements until the mic gets there.  Note that the AudioTools SPL does have a "max" indicator.



WOW - that app is awesome. I have really nice ipad - i will download it.

thanks !!

PS I hope mic ships soon - why do they keep running out !!
post #64686 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by bao01 View Post

For some movies like Terminator Salvation it gets REALLY loud briefly so i'd like to know the MAX value without carefully watching SPL display
(but i did increase the sound going to my two f113s from the baseline xt32 values - maybe that was it).

Some more info. I have Integra DHC-80.3 with xt32.

I have run xt32 with all 8 positions and was really impressed with the resulting distances - very close to actual.
But for the speaker levels, i have question about below:

Page 54
Speaker Setup
Level Calibration

"The test tone is output at the standard level for THX, which is
0 dB (absolute volume setting 82). If you normally listen at
volume settings below this, be careful because the test tone will
be much louder."

For Blu Ray DTS-HD Master, I listen between 63 and 68. 70 seems loud, 75 seems WAY TOO loud.
Last night i was watching Terminator Salvation which has AWESOME soundtrack.
But at times i had to turn down.
I have Dynamic Eq and Dynamic volume turned off.

Does anyone with Integra DHC 80.3 use 82 for volume?
82 seems like it would cause ears to bleed???

thanks
post #64687 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by bao01 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Because of our different time zones, you've already had good replies from the other guys. Yes, two different things. Which you want first depends on what you want to do most - measure or optimise. As I said before, I’d go for measuring first. Then you will know exactly what your room is doing with your speakers and subs - this may lead you into wanting Pro, or possibly other solutions such as treatments or PEQ. XT32 is really, really good - Pro is an incremental upgrade, not a 'night and day' difference. But optimising speaker and sub placement and adding treatments really can be a 'night and day' difference. That's the way I'd do it anyway (having experienced doing it the other way around and getting Pro before REW).

Thanks for good advice. I will do REW first. I ordered UMIK-1 yesterday but got email today saying they are out of stock and not shipping for a while. mad.gif

For hand held SPL, is there one where you can have it record the MAX value over a certain time period and then let me clear the MAX value and start again?
For some movies like Terminator Salvation it gets REALLY loud briefly so i'd like to know the MAX value without carefully watching SPL display
(but i did increase the sound going to my two f113s from the baseline xt32 values - maybe that was it).

 

One of my digital readout meters has a peak hold - that would do what you want I think. Does the latest RS meter have that?  They are all digital readouts now I believe?

post #64688 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by bao01 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bao01 View Post

For some movies like Terminator Salvation it gets REALLY loud briefly so i'd like to know the MAX value without carefully watching SPL display
(but i did increase the sound going to my two f113s from the baseline xt32 values - maybe that was it).

Some more info. I have Integra DHC-80.3 with xt32.

I have run xt32 with all 8 positions and was really impressed with the resulting distances - very close to actual.
But for the speaker levels, i have question about below:

Page 54
Speaker Setup
Level Calibration

"The test tone is output at the standard level for THX, which is
0 dB (absolute volume setting 82). If you normally listen at
volume settings below this, be careful because the test tone will
be much louder."

For Blu Ray DTS-HD Master, I listen between 63 and 68. 70 seems loud, 75 seems WAY TOO loud.
Last night i was watching Terminator Salvation which has AWESOME soundtrack.
But at times i had to turn down.
I have Dynamic Eq and Dynamic volume turned off.

Does anyone with Integra DHC 80.3 use 82 for volume?
82 seems like it would cause ears to bleed???

thanks

 

Answered in the other thread you posted in.

post #64689 of 70896

By the way, many of us set the master volume to display relative levels (e.g. from -80dB to +18dB on a Denon).  Using this setting, a master volume level of zero is "Reference Level".

 

Watching a movie at reference is quite loud.  Above reference may cause your ears to bleed. Typical listening levels are likely to be -5 to -15.

post #64690 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

By the way, many of us set the master volume to display relative levels (e.g. from -80dB to +18dB on a Denon).  Using this setting, a master volume level of zero is "Reference Level".

Watching a movie at reference is quite loud.  Above reference may cause your ears to bleed. Typical listening levels are likely to be -5 to -15.

I will change Integra settings to display relative instead of absolute. That seems a lot more useful. I will report back on what 68 is. maybe -10 dB ?
Thanks !
post #64691 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

I did not know DEQ adds anything to the highs, I thought it only affected the bass????

Quote:
Originally Posted by garygarrison View Post

Although I'm now beginning to doubt where I read what, I did read (somewhere) that DEQ affected the highs, as well. I sure seem to hear some boost in the highs, although less than in the bass.

I have tried the DEQ used by Audyssey XT, and do not like it. Straight Audyssey multieq XT sounds good to me when running movies. On some CDs and SACDs, Audyssey Flat sounds better, and on others I prefer regular Audyssey. I like all the brightness I can get up to just before the onset of harshness. I was surprised that I liked regular Audyssey better on every movie I tried.

Here is the difference up top with DynEQ on and off, the blue and gold curves show the slight bump in the upper freqs:

post #64692 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

For those worrying that the soundtrack they have on Blu-ray might not be accurate to what they heard in the cinema, don't stress it: what you heard in the cinema might not be what you think you heard.



So much for an industry-wide reference standard.



That's more like an industry wide mess. I'm pretty sure the same can be said with BD's and other media, it's no wonder we are always tweaking our settings.
Edited by comfynumb - 9/3/13 at 12:52pm
post #64693 of 70896
Thanks, Max. Both of your recent posts were fascinating. The one thing I'm wondering about that doesn't appear to be in the linked article is what curve they used in the glory days of magnetic sound, especially 70 mm 6 track mag sound in the 1950s through the 1970s. I heard many of those tracks, including nearly all of the ones in 70 mm releases, and almost all were warm, beautiful, dynamic, and seemed to have a great deal of high frequency response. The two misfires had too much treble*. I can't imagine they were played through the old Academy curve. Did the X curve have a predecessor, used for mag tracks, that was about the same?

*IMO, the misfires were, believe it or not, the 70 mm version of Lawrence of Arabia (too bright), and the 70 mm 1977 release of Star Wars (also too bright).
Edited by garygarrison - 9/3/13 at 3:08pm
post #64694 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

That's more like an industry wide mess. I'm pretty sure the same can be said with BD's and other media, it's no wonder we are always tweaking our settings.
Which is fine with me: tweak until you're happy with what you're hearing, don't second guess your own preferences, don't trade your enjoyment for adhering to an industry standard that the industry itself has difficulty adhering to.

Earlier when I mentioned that the word 'reference' had been scrubbed from the Audyssey website, I wasn't implying that it was a bad thing. Quite the contrary.
post #64695 of 70896
I wanted to take some time to compose this so I would get it right. If you look back at my posts, I have been complaining about upper mid range / treble harshness with Audyssey XT since the first day I owned it. I have had it in several flavors, including an Onkyo 709, several Denons (1713, X1000 and my current X2000) all with the same speakers in a 5.1 living room config and have never been truly happy. If I had to sum it up in one sentence it would be that; ‘I could not listen to movies or music at the same level as I could when Audyssey was turned off’ - With Audyssey off, I could listen to any action packed BD movie at -5db in total comfort, but as soon as I re-engaged XT (with or without DEQ) I couldn’t go above -10db without discomfort. Off was smooth and on was brittle. During the time period that I was searching for my broken Onkyo 709s replacement, I tried a Harman Kardon 2700 and it had zero harshness with all of the same speakers and placements.

I asked many times, both here and at Audyssey’s own forum what I could have been doing wrong, and the response ran the gamut from operator error during calibration, to humidity and everything in between......Bad speaker placement, bad equipment, bad room, broken mic. I did everything that I knew how to do during the calibration phase, all of which was learned on this thread, but no matter what I did, or how many calibrations I performed it was still harsh. I appreciated all of the answers and tried to apply any and all recommendations, to no avail.

I could have lived with any of the reasons why the harsh sound, but for one glaring reason.........My system sounded awesome without Audyssey! No harshness with my speakers, in my room, whatsoever. Sure, there was some bass bloat with my sub placed in the corner, but that is to be expected, and I know the settings that best tone down the issue.

I decided to try something new and I copied the Audyssey Flat Curve to the manual EQ, just to give me some sort of idea of what Audyssey thinks is best. I realize that the 9 band EQ graph is very rough compared to what Audyssey actually does, but it gave me a starting point. As soon as I switched Audyssey to “Graphic EQ with Audyssey Flat Curve”, the sound was immediately better in the mids and highs...The harshness all but vanished, although it was still a bit bright for my taste, but not too bad compared to what I had been living with.

I charted those EQ settings for each channel and ran two more detailed 8pt calibrations following the guidelines the best I knew how to do, and after each new calibration I charted the new EQ settings, which then gave me a total of 3 spreadsheets to work off. I ended up averaging all 3 graphs for the L/R together, (treated as 1 speaker) the center by itself and the SL/SR together (same as the L/R). I totaled the EQ results for both the L/R at each band and then divided by 2 and then did the same with the surrounds to come up with my average. I did a lot of EQ research online, so I could better understand what each frequency is for and what happens when we hear too much of it, or not enough. I still don’t know enough, but I know more than I did.

After a processor reset, I applied the averaged settings to the L/R, C and Surrounds and then trimmed 0.5-1.0db here or there and only raised the frequency very little, as I read it’s better to trim than to raise whenever possible. It was surprising how much 1/2db made, much less 1.5 – 3.0. I don’t have the knowledge or the tools needed to do a thorough EQ of each speaker, so I thought it best to group the L/R together and apply 1 EQ setting to them, and do the same with the SL/SR with another setting.......I treated the center as its own speaker. Ultimately Audyssey really helped me here because I would’ve just been shooting in the dark, but the starting point it gave me really helped, as all three calibrations yielded very consistent results with only a db here or there difference. I was able to take just a bit more of my perceived brightness from the system with some more learning, hours of testing and a few tweaks....... The end result is just phenomenal, smooth as butter and when A/B'd with off, the difference isn't near as drastic as when A/Bing Audyssey on & off. It has just a bit more air and sounds more open when compered to off, but has no vocal or treble harshness.

I didn’t write this to bash Audyssey in any way and I hope it’s not received as such, but I wanted to maybe help someone else if they are having similar issues as what I was having. Who knows, maybe it was somehow my fault during the calibration phase and I was repeatedly doing something wrong over and over, I don’t know......... In the end, I’m just really happy that I actually like my system again!

Thanks for everyone that tried to help me throughout the last couple of years, it was all appreciated........Even you Feri! wink.gif
Edited by D Bone - 9/3/13 at 7:43pm
post #64696 of 70896
^^^ Boy are you a candidate for XT32.

I think it's apparent at this point that Igor's distinction that the lesser versions of Audyssey are 'doing more' in the high frequencies vs 'adding noise' to the high frequencies is not merely semantic.
post #64697 of 70896
Yeah. I feel sorry when someone buys the xt denon x2000 based on other people's incremental advice as well.
post #64698 of 70896
D. Bone,

I'm glad you've found a custom EQ that sounds good.

Were you ever able to run a Room EQ Wizard (or the like) curve on the tweaked graphic result you like v.s. "off" v.s. Audyssey XT? I'd find the results interesting. Were all movies and music harsh with XT, or do some sound fine? Is the current lack of harshness explainable by less midrange or treble in certain ranges, period, or is it that some recordings have a fair amount of distortion in the ranges that you have turned down or veiled with the careful re-eq you've done by hand? I realize that last question may be impossible to answer.

I'm fairly satisfied with Audyssey XT in my room -- most movies, CDs and SACDs sound distinctly better than "off," but a few do sound worse. For years now, I have encountered the occasional digital disk that sounds much harsher than the Lp stereo record of the same recording that I was replacing (and I had a variety of phono cartridges, a few of which had high end rise, that were not harsh with those records) -- those harsher digital discs might benefit from a little veiling. As to movies, a few are very harsh indeed. The Man Who Would Be King was beautiful both in the theater and on Lp, but is so unbelievably harsh in it's TV broadcasts (through the same HT/music sound system I usually use) that I refuse to buy the DVD (it's not on Blu).

I really think Audyssey should make each of their configurations, from the cheapest to the best, tweakable for program sweetening. If they are worried about someone grossly misadjusting the EQ, they could have the Audyssey indicator on the control window read something like "Audyssey EQ altered by user." It would be great to start with the Audyssey result, with its "hundreds of points" EQd as well as Audyssey can do it (rather than 9 octave centers), then move on to carefully sweeten each movie and music disk we have, with a certain number of user EQs for individual disks able to be stored.
post #64699 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

^^^ Boy are you a candidate for XT32.

I think it's apparent at this point that Igor's distinction that the lesser versions of Audyssey are 'doing more' in the high frequencies vs 'adding noise' to the high frequencies is not merely semantic.

 

+1. Before Igor made his recent post, that's how I’d viewed it: XT32 does 'less' to the HF and XT does 'more' (even though 'more' is unwanted). I am now enlightened to what is actually going on wrt to 'adding noise'. It's a fine distinction in some ways, but a very big one in reality.

post #64700 of 70896
D.Bone,

It would be interesting to see a measurement of your acoustics with and without Audyssey using REW or the equivalent. However, you probably should spend the time enjoying your results instead of measuring noise smile.gif
post #64701 of 70896
Hey guys, no I don't have any type of room measuring software other than Audyssey. I've thought about it and may look into it in the near future. With Audyssey, dialog always seemed to be "upfront & in my face" and harsh. It was obviously worse with a certain type of voice, and especially when there was shouting............I'm not talking simply loud SPL, but hard, edgy, shrill accents to voices or other noises that sounded even worse with music depending on the artist. I'm going to exaggerate here strictly for effect, but it was like the difference between someone talking to me normally vs talking to me through a megaphone, and as the MV went up so did the cringing.

I'll give two examples of non dialog harshness that are both in the same movie. In War of the Worlds BD at the start of the movie when Tom Cruise slides his car around the corner on his way home from work, and during the opening Tri-Pod laser chase scene, a woman is running away right in front of Tom and then is vaporized and he runs through her ashes. Those two examples were the first thing that came to my mind, but are obviously not the only ones. With Audyssey those scenes were like nails on a chalk board, and without Audyssey, at an even higher MV, they are not.

Thanks for all the feedback guys and I still plan to read this thread daily as it's a great place to learn, although most of it is over my head, and it's an even better place for entertainment...........Thanks to Feri biggrin.gif J/K
post #64702 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

By the way, many of us set the master volume to display relative levels (e.g. from -80dB to +18dB on a Denon).  Using this setting, a master volume level of zero is "Reference Level".

Watching a movie at reference is quite loud.  Above reference may cause your ears to bleed. Typical listening levels are likely to be -5 to -15.

I changed my subs back to xt32 level values so all speakers and subs were xt32 levels.
I changed Integra volume to relative (great trick!!) and listened again to the loud parts of Terminator Salvation (first 5 minutes with A10 Thunderbolts flying and bombing).
I thought -15 or -14 was fantastic, and -13 was good too but i thought maybe for very short durations (msec) a bit painful/harsh.
I never tried -10 or -5.
So i really can't imagine what 0 would be like. Bombastic.
My room is pretty large: 29 x 22 x 8 or 5061 cu ft.
I sit 6.5 ft from 65" plasma and 7.5 ft from two front left and right speakers.
Right now i just have 2.2 system because i am in process of purchasing 7 new speakers smile.gif
My front L/R are old Paradigms from 1988 and so they may be source of harshness.
Maybe with nice new speakers i can go to -10 or -5 but i really don't get level 0. Are you supposed to be 30 feet away from all speakers?
Dont get it.
Edited by bao01 - 9/4/13 at 10:20am
post #64703 of 70896
You are going to lose right around 3 dB's per meter the further you get away from traditional point source speakers, line source type speakers and array's make this loss much less, often cases only being close to 1-1.5dB per meter. Certainly a 7 foot listening distance is closer than some on here, but more importantly it kind of depends on what spl Audyssey sets your speakers to. I know it is supposed to be close to 75dB's but through several different AVR's i have seen varying results from 70dB's to 78dB's depending on which model I was testing. That is a pretty drastic difference.
post #64704 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

You are going to lose right around 3 dB's per meter the further you get away from traditional point source speakers, line source type speakers and array's make this loss much less, often cases only being close to 1-1.5dB per meter. Certainly a 7 foot listening distance is closer than some on here, but more importantly it kind of depends on what spl Audyssey sets your speakers to. I know it is supposed to be close to 75dB's but through several different AVR's i have seen varying results from 70dB's to 78dB's depending on which model I was testing. That is a pretty drastic difference.

It is the Integra DHC 80.3 and i think Audyssey uses 75 dB - it asks me to set subs to 75 before proceeding.

As soon as my mic arrives i can start running REW and see what's what.
As far as 7.5 ft between me and front L and R,
I tend to leave my chair where it is for best movie viewing. It is almost an equilateral triangle with speakers.
Many speaker manufactures indicate that an equilateral triangle is a good starting point and that
a distance of 6 to 10 ft between the front speakers is recommended.
THX says use 0.84 as denominator with screen diagonal as numerator for viewing distance from TV screen.
I have 65" plasma so:
65"/0.84 = 78" or 6.4'.
This makes it very immersive which i like.
The front face of my speakers are just one inch out (fwd) from the plane of the TV.
In terms of equilateral triangle, this is the "h" and a=hx2/sqrt(3) where 'a' is triangle sides.
So the triangle sides ('a') are 90" or 7.4'.
post #64705 of 70896
sounds like you have done your homework then!!! Very nice! Yes audyssey does aim for 75dB's on all tests, but that isn't to say it actually gets there. All the units I have tested were supposed to be at 75dB's as well, but they have yet to ever get them all perfectly on 75dB's. Close, but never dead on biggrin.gif
post #64706 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

sounds like you have done your homework then!!! Very nice! Yes audyssey does aim for 75dB's on all tests, but that isn't to say it actually gets there. All the units I have tested were supposed to be at 75dB's as well, but they have yet to ever get them all perfectly on 75dB's. Close, but never dead on biggrin.gif

I am not sure I know what type of measuring instrument that would result in being able to determine "dead on". Certainly not the typical SPL meter most of us use, and probably not the calibrated mic's some of us use with REW.

So, I have always assumed that for at least the satellite speakers, the levels set by Audyssey are, for all practical purposes, 75dB. The sub levels seem to vary, but they are perhaps the hardest to measure anyway, and the most likely to be adjusted according to preference.
post #64707 of 70896
Oh absolutely agree 100%, but in certain cases where audyssey may even be calibrated somewhere around 5dB's hot (80dB) the sound could be seemingly much louder than the next guy who says he listens at reference but his system is calibrated in a more treated room and at 5dB's.
post #64708 of 70896
I have a marantz 5007, klipsch rf 52 front, center and surrounds, sw-110 sub. Audyssey set the crossover for my mains at 120 hz. I know this is a little high, but it still sounds great. My question is, should I lower the crossover or leave it as is. The rf 52 can handle 36hz. Will it really make a huge difference is the crossover is left at 120 hz. Everything I've read about audyssey says not to lower the crossover, only to raise it if necessary.
post #64709 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by bao01 View Post
Right now i just have 2.2 system because i am in process of purchasing 7 new speakers smile.gif
My front L/R are old Paradigms from 1988 and so they may be source of harshness.
Maybe with nice new speakers i can go to -10 or -5 but i really don't get level 0. Are you supposed to be 30 feet away from all speakers?
Dont get it.

 

I sit 8-9 feet from my speakers and listen at about -6dB usually. This is loud but doesn't 'sound loud'. The room is heavily treated which seems to \remove' a few dB. Your system shouldn't sound 'harsh' at -13dB on the MV - this would suggest you are running your amps into clipping or overdriving your speakers. 

post #64710 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by murrots View Post

I have a marantz 5007, klipsch rf 52 front, center and surrounds, sw-110 sub. Audyssey set the crossover for my mains at 120 hz. I know this is a little high, but it still sounds great. My question is, should I lower the crossover or leave it as is. The rf 52 can handle 36hz. Will it really make a huge difference is the crossover is left at 120 hz. Everything I've read about audyssey says not to lower the crossover, only to raise it if necessary.

 

A XO of 120Hz isn't automatically a bad thing. If your sub is happy and the sound is good, you are probably fine as you are. The higher the XO, the more chance of localising the subs - is this an issue you have noticed?  The counterpart to that is that the higher the XO, the less work you are asking your main speakers to do, so the chances are they will sound better - and you are relieving your amps of some of the load too, which will enable them to give their best too. I have very capable subs and very capable mains and I cross over at 100Hz through choice - I’d be happy to cross over at 120Hz if that is what Audyssey 'wanted' me to do.

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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › "Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779)