or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › "Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2168

post #65011 of 70910
Thats what I was wondering, as the main reason is going to dual subs. I guess the issue I see is, Id could probably get $500 for 3313 (its not that old), X4000 is over $1200, so Im spending $700 for the upgrade.

With XT32 and it's dual sub ability, does that make pro cal moot? What I dont want is to pay for the upgrade, then still need a pro call as well.
post #65012 of 70910
I guess another option is a factory refurb 4000, which runs $899.
post #65013 of 70910

^I second jd's recommendation to upgrade to a model with XT32 prior to even considering a Pro calibration.

 

Note that to do a Pro cal on a unit, Audyssey requires $150 for the Pro license.  That is in addition to the charge for the calibration unless Chad has included that out of pocket cost in his charge to you.  When you upgrade to a new model, you need a new license. 

 

Another issue: if you change anything sonically significant in the room (speakers, rearrange furniture, etc) , you need a new Pro calibration so many HT enthusiasts opt to purchase a Pro Installer kit for $550 rather than pay for a one-time calibration.  But don't worry about that now-get XT32 and simply run Autosetup and you'll very likely hear a very nice SQ improvement over what you have now, without Pro.  And the next move would be to the second sub.

 

I highly recommend you contact jd directly for best AVR prices and options.

post #65014 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Thats what I was wondering, as the main reason is going to dual subs. I guess the issue I see is, Id could probably get $500 for 3313 (its not that old), X4000 is over $1200, so Im spending $700 for the upgrade.

With XT32 and it's dual sub ability, does that make pro cal moot? What I dont want is to pay for the upgrade, then still need a pro call as well.

The 3313CI was just released last year (summer 2012) so you'll likely get a little more than that. Call me for a price quote on the X4000.
post #65015 of 70910
Code:
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Thats what I was wondering, as the main reason is going to dual subs. I guess the issue I see is, Id could probably get $500 for 3313 (its not that old), X4000 is over $1200, so Im spending $700 for the upgrade.

With XT32 and it's dual sub ability, does that make pro cal moot? What I dont want is to pay for the upgrade, then still need a pro call as well.

I have both an XT32 AVR, and the Pro Kit, so my advice is from direct experience. The upgrade to XT32 is significant. The resulting sound of a consumer XT32 calibration is going to be better than an Pro XT calibration. If you are going to have dual subs, that is one more reason to get XT32.

Unless you never plan on making another change to your system, spending the money on someone to come in and do a Pro calibration is not money well spent. The chances of you making some type of change, and rendering the calibration obsolete, are very high.

In a perfect world, you would find the budget to upgrade to XT32, and get that second sub.
post #65016 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Code:
I have both an XT32 AVR, and the Pro Kit, so my advice is from direct experience. The upgrade to XT32 is significant. The resulting sound of a consumer XT32 calibration is going to be better than an Pro XT calibration. If you are going to have dual subs, that is one more reason to get XT32.

Unless you never plan on making another change to your system, spending the money on someone to come in and do a Pro calibration is not money well spent. The chances of you making some type of change, and rendering the calibration obsolete, are very high.

In a perfect world, you would find the budget to upgrade to XT32, and get that second sub.

Thanks everyone for the help, I think I have a plan!
post #65017 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
 

I can restrain myself these days from swapping perfectly good gear for other perfectly good gear on a regular basis :) ...

For some time now I somewhat surprisingly have found myself in a similar state of mind-and it's a relief!:) 

 

Quite. I think that once one reaches a certain standard of gear, and recognises that the most significant factor in good sound does not come from amp 'upgrades', DAC 'upgrades', BD player 'upgrades', cable 'upgrades' and so on, but from taking care of the room itself, that is a huge step forward to the permanent cure of 'upgradeitis'.  Once one has a decent level of electronics, plus good speakers/subs of course, then the big gains are always going to come from a) proper placement of the speakers and subs and b) treating the room acoustically. If the room is cr&p or the speakers are cr&p, no amount of electronics 'upgrades' are going to compensate. I am of the firm belief that most of the people on the permanent 'upgrade' bandwagon are there because they have ignored the two a) and b) fundamentals I mention here. 

 

Quote:
 

With Audyssey XT32 and the Pro kit, dual high-performance subs and great speakers, I'm loving the resultant SQ. I'm convinced that the biggest limiting factor for me is my nondedicated HT/music fam room, with its limited placement options and lack of formal acoustic treatments. 

 

Yes, you have it 100% right IMO. But at least you are aware of the issues and don't believe, like many, that if only you could get a $10,000 McIntosh amp or some $500 interconnects into the system, all the problems would be solved. 

 

 

Quote:

 

To get any further significant SQ improvements I'd need to go down the more accurate and sophisticated measuring rabbit hole with REW, add acoustic treatments, possibly PEQ, etc.  

 

So, SoM, what, pray, is stopping you?  LOL!   You might be able to nudge those excellent speakers of yours into a slightly better spot, determined from a REW analysis of your room. And there are some fabulous acoustic panels designed to look like great artwork these days - they can print any image you wish on to the panels.  A Behringer Feedback Destroyer is a fabulous PEQ and you can pick them up secondhand for 50 bucks.... Oh, what's that you say?  You have a life?  A life outside the world of AV?  :)

 

Quote:

 My read on current alternative automated DSP RC systems is that anything likely to do any better with my room as is would be prohibitively expensive.
 
Absolutely.
post #65018 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Question about a Pro Cal (have a 3313ci) and XT32.

Chad B did my display, and also offers a Audyssey Pro service. I was considering buying a second VTF15H, then next time Chad does a touchup have him perform the Pro cal with the 3313ci. Other option is upgrade the AVR and get XT32. IMO, getting the sub, getting the pro cal, and keeping the 3313ci is the better move. I have zero complaints about the AVR, but looking for suggestions.

 

Edit: I have Read-Ahead permanently disabled so I didn't see all the other excellent advice before typing my reply below. I will leave the post up as another vote for XT32 over XT+Pro. Like Jerry, I also speak from personal experience, having had XT and currently having XT32 and Pro.

 

XT32 is going to give you a better result than XT + Pro.  Pro utilises the 'base' version of MultEQ, in your case XT, so there is only so much Pro can do to improve on the 'consumer' calibration. XT32, OTOH, is a huge step up from XT and even without a Pro cal, it will deliver the best performance for you. 

post #65019 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
 

...So, SoM, what, pray, is stopping you?  LOL!   You might be able to nudge those excellent speakers of yours into a slightly better spot, determined from a REW analysis of your room. And there are some fabulous acoustic panels designed to look like great artwork these days - they can print any image you wish on to the panels.  A Behringer Feedback Destroyer is a fabulous PEQ and you can pick them up secondhand for 50 bucks.... Oh, what's that you say?  You have a life?  A life outside the world of AV?  :)

 

Lack of time is a huge factor.  And given the choice of how to use leisure time, I really prefer  playing, producing and recording music.  Or listening to live music- I am blessed with the quality and quantity of performances going on here in Motown.  

 

I think my lack of discontentment/upgraditis has more to do with the law of diminishing returns irt the pleasure I get now from the system vs cost and effort to eek out smaller and smaller SQ improvements. For film I am really impressed with how good quality sountracks sound.  Same for well-recorded music. Sadly, there is really not a lot of music available that I really want to listen to that is recorded well enough to really benefit from further SQ refinement.  If I was a huge classical or jazz fan, I could easily expand my HQ music collection by an order of magnitude-and that might well be motivation enough to dive in deeper. 

 

 

Oh, BTW I try to remember to click "preview" before submitting my post, especially if it's taken me time to compose it. Not sure if that is the same as "read ahead"....

post #65020 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
 

...So, SoM, what, pray, is stopping you?  LOL!   You might be able to nudge those excellent speakers of yours into a slightly better spot, determined from a REW analysis of your room. And there are some fabulous acoustic panels designed to look like great artwork these days - they can print any image you wish on to the panels.  A Behringer Feedback Destroyer is a fabulous PEQ and you can pick them up secondhand for 50 bucks.... Oh, what's that you say?  You have a life?  A life outside the world of AV?  :)

 

Lack of time is a huge factor.  And given the choice of how to use leisure time, I really prefer  playing, producing and recording music.  Or listening to live music- I am blessed with the quality and quantity of performances going on here in Motown.  

 

I think my lack of discontentment/upgraditis has more to do with the law of diminishing returns irt the pleasure I get now from the system vs cost and effort to eek out smaller and smaller SQ improvements. For film I am really impressed with how good quality sountracks sound.  Same for well-recorded music. Sadly, there is really not a lot of music available that I really want to listen to that is recorded well enough to really benefit from further SQ refinement.  If I was a huge classical or jazz fan, I could easily expand my HQ music collection by an order of magnitude-and that might well be motivation enough to dive in deeper. 

 

 

Oh, BTW I try to remember to click "preview" before submitting my post, especially if it's taken me time to compose it. Not sure if that is the same as "read ahead"....

 

Hehe. Read-ahead is taking the time to read the replies of others before jumping in and posting oneself. As you can see, it is permanently disabled here :)  I have mixed feelings about Preview  

because when I use it, it seems to hide spelling errors etc that are all too painfully evident once I have clicked 'Submit' :)

 

Agreed with you about listening to music - live or recorded. Sometimes it's easy to forget why we have these expensive systems we have invested so much time and money in. 

post #65021 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Thanks everyone for the help, I think I have a plan!

And to help reinforce it, I just installed an X4000. The AVR it replaced was a Pioneer 1018AH. Bottom line - no comparison. The X4000 does such a good job that I did a double take to see if I was in fact listening to the same speakers.

It looks like my wife has me talked into building a new house and this will enable building a theater from the ground up. I'll have no problem using the X4000 until an HDMI 2.0 successor comes along....
post #65022 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

It's a tricky question. Take a look at this FAQ answer to see if it helps - and come back here if it doesn't and we'll explore it in more depth.

e)6.   What do I do if my trim levels are at the limits of their adjustment ('maxed out')?

Thanks guys. I moved the center back about 6 inches and the trim adjustment after running audyssey again is down to -11dB. That's good enough for me!

Cheers
post #65023 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by kojak711 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

It's a tricky question. Take a look at this FAQ answer to see if it helps - and come back here if it doesn't and we'll explore it in more depth.

e)6.   What do I do if my trim levels are at the limits of their adjustment ('maxed out')?

Thanks guys. I moved the center back about 6 inches and the trim adjustment after running audyssey again is down to -11dB. That's good enough for me!

Cheers

 

Good enough for anyone!  Good job there!

post #65024 of 70910
For subs, I read that it's harder for Audyssey to fix a dead area - if your primary listening position is where the waves cancel each other out (a dead spot), it's hard for Audyssey to fix. But if your chair is where the waves add to each other creating a lot of low freq bass energy, Audyssey can adjust the sub output without too much trouble.

I have two JL Audio f113 along front wall. I took all 8 measurements for xt32 and it set my subs to -4.5 and -3.5. Does that mean i'm not in a dead spot? I'm in an overly energized spot so I don't have to worry - xt32 will have no problem fixing? Or does it matter which low frequency? e.g. 22 Hz vs 36 Hz. Maybe for most low bass freq i am ok (negative adjustment) but for a few other freq i am in a dead spot and Audyssey can't fix. Just curious.

Also, JUST received my brand new USB mic today so i'm reading the REW guide before i start. smile.gif

thanks
post #65025 of 70910
^ See you in the REW thread!
post #65026 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by bao01 View Post

For subs, I read that it's harder for Audyssey to fix a dead area - if your primary listening position is where the waves cancel each other out (a dead spot), it's hard for Audyssey to fix. But if your chair is where the waves add to each other creating a lot of low freq bass energy, Audyssey can adjust the sub output without too much trouble.

I have two JL Audio f113 along front wall. I took all 8 measurements for xt32 and it set my subs to -4.5 and -3.5. Does that mean i'm not in a dead spot? I'm in an overly energized spot so I don't have to worry - xt32 will have no problem fixing? Or does it matter which low frequency? e.g. 22 Hz vs 36 Hz. Maybe for most low bass freq i am ok (negative adjustment) but for a few other freq i am in a dead spot and Audyssey can't fix. Just curious.

Also, JUST received my brand new USB mic today so i'm reading the REW guide before i start. smile.gif

thanks
Once you take some measurements with REW, we'll see if you have any serious nulls (dead spots).


Max
post #65027 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by bao01 View Post

For subs, I read that it's harder for Audyssey to fix a dead area - if your primary listening position is where the waves cancel each other out (a dead spot), it's hard for Audyssey to fix. But if your chair is where the waves add to each other creating a lot of low freq bass energy, Audyssey can adjust the sub output without too much trouble.

I have two JL Audio f113 along front wall. I took all 8 measurements for xt32 and it set my subs to -4.5 and -3.5. Does that mean i'm not in a dead spot? I'm in an overly energized spot so I don't have to worry - xt32 will have no problem fixing? Or does it matter which low frequency? e.g. 22 Hz vs 36 Hz. Maybe for most low bass freq i am ok (negative adjustment) but for a few other freq i am in a dead spot and Audyssey can't fix. Just curious.

Also, JUST received my brand new USB mic today so i'm reading the REW guide before i start. smile.gif

thanks

 

Electronic EQ can't fix nulls. Think of it like this - if you make a fist with each hand and then push them together in front of you, pushing quite hard - what happens if you push harder?  The answer is "nothing", right?  No matter how much more energy you put into pushing harder, the result is always the same. Same with nulls - you can pump more and more energy in, trying to 'fix' them but all you do is risk your amp and speakers. The only way to fix the problems caused by nulls is with proper speaker/sub placement and attention to the room itself with physical measures.  Peaks are different and Audyssey is successful at reducing peaks. In some ways, this can also help with the nulls because you can bring the peaks down to 'meet' the nulls and then raise the overall average SPL to compensate. Audyssey does this to some extent but you can see that it has obvious limitations. Bottom line: don't expect any sort of electronic EQ to fix a null.

 
Now you have REW, you will be able to measure your room and see the nulls for yourself. That's the first step to getting rid of them... see you in the REW thread!
post #65028 of 70910
And what in HDMI 2 do you expect to use for a consumer based system? 32 channel audio? You are going to produce your own movies? Go read the spec.

3D does not work, I don't care about using my TV as a network hub, so HDMI 1.0 does everything a BD can produce.
post #65029 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvrgeek View Post

And what in HDMI 2 do you expect to use for a consumer based system? 32 channel audio? You are going to produce your own movies? Go read the spec.

3D does not work, I don't care about using my TV as a network hub, so HDMI 1.0 does everything a BD can produce.

 

Have you by chance posted this in the wrong thread?

post #65030 of 70910
Maybe not "eq" but processing can maybe help by playing with phase and delay, you can move the nulls around the room. This worked using a DCX, but of course, it sounded like a cheap PA system and I have no tolerance for the boot time or drama when it was powered off. For a large sub soundstage, you just need lots of subs or look into real bass traps. ( not those mail order tiny things or foam blocks) Real as in a 4 foot diameter column of compressed fg floor to ceiling in each corner. Way past any consumer push-button computerized tool I am afraid, so I am sure not picking on Audessey here.

II have to ask, as I did not get an answer on the x series thread. Someone here has an x4000. Is the HDMI switching absolutely reliable? As in, does it switch within 2 seconds and lock on correctly every time? Does it ever drop audio or video if the source changes formats?
post #65031 of 70910
KB, reply to comment made in this thread. Just as I feel Audessey is selling more than it can deliver, the entire HDMI spec game is selling more than can be delivered and is selling a pile of features that are of no use to the consumer. At least on HDMI and Digital-CP you can read the actual spec ans see what is of value, where all yo get from Audessey is promices.
post #65032 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Electronic EQ can't fix nulls. Think of it like this - if you make a fist with each hand and then push them together in front of you, pushing quite hard - what happens if you push harder?  The answer is "nothing", right?  No matter how much more energy you put into pushing harder, the result is always the same. Same with nulls - you can pump more and more energy in, trying to 'fix' them but all you do is risk your amp and speakers. The only way to fix the problems caused by nulls is with proper speaker/sub placement and attention to the room itself with physical measures.  Peaks are different and Audyssey is successful at reducing peaks. In some ways, this can also help with the nulls because you can bring the peaks down to 'meet' the nulls and then raise the overall average SPL to compensate. Audyssey does this to some extent but you can see that it has obvious limitations. Bottom line: don't expect any sort of electronic EQ to fix a null.
 
Now you have REW, you will be able to measure your room and see the nulls for yourself. That's the first step to getting rid of them... see you in the REW thread!

I am really excited about REW and will post some results in that thread - probably tonight!
But ...
Since xt32 used a NEGATIVE gain for my two subs (-4.5, -3.5) does that mean I don't have to worry about my chair being in a null spot? Doesn't it depend on which low freq? Maybe it is negative gain for "most" low freq bass but not all? (e.g. listening position is in a peak for 20 Hz but a null for 60 Hz etc).
Sorry for noob questions.

thanks !!
post #65033 of 70910
The two really don't have anything to do with each other, that's a false conflation. The nulls being referred to will occur at specific frequencies. The actual trim level is based upon a sweep that covers a wider frequency band. So the fact that your subs got a negative trim is related to the average SPL the program is hearing across the relevant frequency band, not any specific problems at a specific frequency. So it doesn't mean at all that you don't, for example, have a big null at 50Hz and a big hump at 115Hz.
post #65034 of 70910
bao01,

That subwoofer trim level is fine. It has nothing to do with nulls.

The trim level shown for your sub is a result of the sub's over-all volume that Audyssey measured at your primary listening position. It's affected mostly by the setting of the volume control knob that's on the subwoofer. A negative value means that Audyssey had to attenuate the receiver's subwoofer output so that the subwoofer would produce the sound level intended by the people mixing a movie's soundtrack.
post #65035 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by bao01 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Electronic EQ can't fix nulls. Think of it like this - if you make a fist with each hand and then push them together in front of you, pushing quite hard - what happens if you push harder?  The answer is "nothing", right?  No matter how much more energy you put into pushing harder, the result is always the same. Same with nulls - you can pump more and more energy in, trying to 'fix' them but all you do is risk your amp and speakers. The only way to fix the problems caused by nulls is with proper speaker/sub placement and attention to the room itself with physical measures.  Peaks are different and Audyssey is successful at reducing peaks. In some ways, this can also help with the nulls because you can bring the peaks down to 'meet' the nulls and then raise the overall average SPL to compensate. Audyssey does this to some extent but you can see that it has obvious limitations. Bottom line: don't expect any sort of electronic EQ to fix a null.
 
Now you have REW, you will be able to measure your room and see the nulls for yourself. That's the first step to getting rid of them... see you in the REW thread!

I am really excited about REW and will post some results in that thread - probably tonight!
But ...
Since xt32 used a NEGATIVE gain for my two subs (-4.5, -3.5) does that mean I don't have to worry about my chair being in a null spot? Doesn't it depend on which low freq? Maybe it is negative gain for "most" low freq bass but not all? (e.g. listening position is in a peak for 20 Hz but a null for 60 Hz etc).
Sorry for noob questions.

thanks !!

 

Batpig's reply is a good one, as ever. The trim levels are really a red herring wrt to the issue of nulls. Nulls are caused by room modes - we'll see when you use REW if you have any problems with nulls. If you do, moving the speakers and subs (or adding a sub if you only have one) is the way to tackle it. 

 

Selden has chimed in too with another good answer for you.

post #65036 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvrgeek View Post

KB, reply to comment made in this thread. Just as I feel Audessey is selling more than it can deliver, the entire HDMI spec game is selling more than can be delivered and is selling a pile of features that are of no use to the consumer. At least on HDMI and Digital-CP you can read the actual spec ans see what is of value, where all yo get from Audessey is promices.

 

Without the quote I couldn't relate to the original. I agree about HDMI to a large extent. As to Audyssey "selling more than it can deliver" well, I don't know. You have to remember what Audyssey is for - it is an automated system to allow people with little or no knowledge of acoustics to get a pretty good result in an average room. It is not a magic bullet and anyone with enough knowledge, time and experience (and the right tools) can equal or surpass what Audyssey does. I don't think it is fair to criticise it for something it never set out to achieve in the first place. MultEQ, especially XT32, makes a fabulous improvement to SQ for most people -  that's not an opinion, it's a fact and this thread is the living proof of it. But of course, there will always be specific situations in which Audyssey, even XT32, will not be able to improve the FR the way a user wants it to. I think your situation is one of those, and the solution for you lies elsewhere. I don't think you are doing yourself any favours with constant kvetching about it, especially in this thread. 

post #65037 of 70910
Thanks guys !!! Look for my REW posts sometime this week - i look forward to some expert analysis smile.gif

PS Room is 29 x 22 x 8 or 5062 cu ft with carpet. I have two JL f113.
post #65038 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Without the quote I couldn't relate to the original. I agree about HDMI to a large extent. As to Audyssey "selling more than it can deliver" well, I don't know. You have to remember what Audyssey is for - it is an automated system to allow people with little or no knowledge of acoustics to get a pretty good result in an average room. It is not a magic bullet and anyone with enough knowledge, time and experience (and the right tools) can equal or surpass what Audyssey does. I don't think it is fair to criticise it for something it never set out to achieve in the first place. MultEQ, especially XT32, makes a fabulous improvement to SQ for most people -  that's not an opinion, it's a fact and this thread is the living proof of it. But of course, there will always be specific situations in which Audyssey, even XT32, will not be able to improve the FR the way a user wants it to. I think your situation is one of those, and the solution for you lies elsewhere. I don't think you are doing yourself any favours with constant kvetching about it, especially in this thread. 


Quote was " can't wait for HDMI 2"

I did not find XT could do what their own WEB says. Neither could the most basic version included with the NAD to test phase. As I have said MANY times here, I recognize Audessey is the market leader in this area. No one has been able to suggest why it insisted on massive bass boost even when I selected flat. No one has suggested what the "standard audessey response" target is. No one has suggested why it picks crossover frequencies that are just plain so far wrong as to be laughable. No one has been able to explain why it does not always measure phase correctly. A bit more info from the coders could possibly help. I am not looking for magic. I was hoping for it to help with a couple of large room modes producing peaks, and maybe a bit of overall flatness across the mids. That should easily fall under the "pretty good for the average user". To not correct the two major humps, and to then add a big bass shelf is NOT what they advertise. When I did not get that, I came here I hoping for some rational why it was not doing as they advertise. As I have mentioned before, we have no dealers in the area who are capable or willing to properly demonstrate it in store. Why does this system not behave as they claim in my environment?

Yes, my solution is elsewhere right now. A $16 used Ross 31 band eq going to the sub and ignoring everything else. That is why I returned the Marantz. I had to measure the phase with my pulse generator to prove Audessey was wrong when it said my sub and one surrounds was out of phase. What would the normal user do? Reverse the leads and believe it was correct because the system said so? That is not serving the typical user either.

"With this information, MultEQ creates equalization filters for each channel resulting in improved soundstage, accurate tonal balance and smoother bass." RIght from their page. That is all I was expecting.
post #65039 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by bao01 View Post

Room is 29 x 22 x 8 or 5062 cu ft with carpet. I have two JL f113.
Where is your main seating location?
post #65040 of 70910
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvrgeek View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Without the quote I couldn't relate to the original. I agree about HDMI to a large extent. As to Audyssey "selling more than it can deliver" well, I don't know. You have to remember what Audyssey is for - it is an automated system to allow people with little or no knowledge of acoustics to get a pretty good result in an average room. It is not a magic bullet and anyone with enough knowledge, time and experience (and the right tools) can equal or surpass what Audyssey does. I don't think it is fair to criticise it for something it never set out to achieve in the first place. MultEQ, especially XT32, makes a fabulous improvement to SQ for most people -  that's not an opinion, it's a fact and this thread is the living proof of it. But of course, there will always be specific situations in which Audyssey, even XT32, will not be able to improve the FR the way a user wants it to. I think your situation is one of those, and the solution for you lies elsewhere. I don't think you are doing yourself any favours with constant kvetching about it, especially in this thread. 


I did not find XT could do what their own WEB says. Neither could the most basic version included with the NAD to test phase. As I have said MANY times here, I recognize Audessey is the market leader in this area. No one has been able to suggest why it insisted on massive bass boost even when I selected flat.   
 

 

I believe some possible reasons have been suggested: there is an inherent problem with your room or your sub placement that is beyond the capability of Audyssey to correct for. Or possibly the technique you are using isn’t the best. Both of these have been suggested. They may but be correct but they have been suggested. The fact you are not getting any further suggestions would tend to make me think that nobody here has any answers for you, so asking the same questions over and over isn't probably going to yield much more.

 

 

Quote:
 No one has suggested what the "standard audessey response" target is.

 

I know that isn't the case because I answered this myself. The Audyssey target curves are described here:

 

a)7.   What are the Audyssey 'Movie' ('Reference') and 'Music' ('Flat') curves?

 

Quote:

 No one has suggested why it picks crossover frequencies that are just plain so far wrong as to be laughable.

 

First off, Audyssey doesn't pick the crossovers - the AVR does. Audyssey reports the F3 that it finds for the speaker in question. The in-room F3. We have no reason to believe that Audyssey is inaccurate in this. 

 

c)1.   Why are my Crossovers set differently to my speaker manufacturer's specification?

 

 

 

 

Quote:

  No one has been able to explain why it does not always measure phase correctly.

 

Not sure what exactly you mean. If you mean simply the phase of each speaker as it is tested:

 

b)1.   Why is Audyssey reporting that my speakers are out of phase?

 

 

Quote:

  I am not looking for magic. I was hoping for it to help with a couple of large room modes producing peaks, and maybe a bit of overall flatness across the mids. That should easily fall under the "pretty good for the average user". To not correct the two major humps, and to then add a big bass shelf is NOT what they advertise. When I did not get that, I came here I hoping for some rational why it was not doing as they advertise. As I have mentioned before, we have no dealers in the area who are capable or willing to properly demonstrate it in store. Why does this system not behave as they claim in my environment?

 

It would seem that nobody is able to help you with the last question there. Sorry.

 

 

Quote:

 Yes, my solution is elsewhere right now. A $16 used Ross 31 band eq going to the sub and ignoring everything else. That is why I returned the Marantz. I had to measure the phase with my pulse generator to prove Audessey was wrong when it said my sub and one surrounds was out of phase. What would the normal user do? Reverse the leads and believe it was correct because the system said so? That is not serving the typical user either.
 

 

As I said before, solutions other than Audyssey seem to be needed in your particular case. Just accept it: Audyssey is not giving you what you wanted. Sometimes this happens.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Receivers, Amps, and Processors
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › "Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779)