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"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2177

post #65281 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

1 measurement at the MLP and then calculate vs a traditional 8pt calibration of the room. Not 8 measurements from a single spot. smile.gif

You can't do that. Audyssey requires a minimum of three measurements.

Only on Onkyo products AFAIK. Denon/Marantz doesn't have this restriction. I can do a quick single point calibration if I'm in a rush.

When I set up an Onkyo 3008 for a friend a couple of years ago I was surprised by this. Another difference I found (hopefully Onkyo has fixed this since!) is that when I hit "cancel" during the measurements, the Onk cancelled the ENTIRE calibration. With Denons, when you hit "cancel" during a measurement, it just cancels that single measurement point. So, for example, if you are on mic position #5 and a barking dog interrupts a measurement, you can just cancel position #5 and restart it after locking the dog in the bathroom, without having to redo the first 4 positions. I tried this on the Onk 3008 when something disturbed a measurement point and was P.O.d to find that it kicked me back to the beginning.
post #65282 of 70896
D Bone -- this may be interesting to you, a while back Markus did a comparison of some mic patterns: http://mehlau.net/audio/multeq_xt32_mic_pattern/

One of them was taking 3 measurements (again due to the Onkyo minimum restriction noted above) without moving the mic, which is as close as he could get to a "single point" measurement.

Unfortunately he didn't post measurements of the "wide spacing" points when using the narrower spacing patterns, but you can compare the 1st position and the "two ears" positions across all three mic spacings (8 wide, 8 narrow, and 3 in the same place).
post #65283 of 70896
Thank you my friend! smile.gif
post #65284 of 70896
To my eyes Markus' measurements verify that, even for a single listener, moving the mic around a bit yields superior results. The "at the listener's ears" measurements look flatter at the "narrow spacing" than the "single point" calibration. Which sort of makes sense.
post #65285 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

To my eyes Markus' measurements verify that, even for a single listener, moving the mic around a bit yields superior results. The "at the listener's ears" measurements look flatter at the "narrow spacing" than the "single point" calibration. Which sort of makes sense.

This made me try a quick 4pt calibration. 1 MLP (center of my head), 2 move mic 5" forward, 3 then move mic 5" left, 4 then move mic 10" right. This significantly improved the thinness I experienced earlier with no mid range/treble harshness (thank goodness I figured that out). I have always used all 8 points as that's what is commonly recommended and seems plausible, but I am rethinking that at the moment.
post #65286 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

To my eyes Markus' measurements verify that, even for a single listener, moving the mic around a bit yields superior results. The "at the listener's ears" measurements look flatter at the "narrow spacing" than the "single point" calibration. Which sort of makes sense.

It's because you're accounting for "measurement error". That means that even if you're trying to predict one thing (flattest response for MLP), by having more data points you're better accounting for random variations in effects around that MLP.

Another reason I could see: our hearing is stereo, not mono smile.gif. That means that subtle differences on the L and R side of our ears get smoothed out better by having more measurements around our head LOL.
post #65287 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

Then my Audyssey is broken, because I can. biggrin.gif
The reason I was asking is because I got a new SVS sub and I did an MLP 1 spot quick measurement/calculate/store so I could get the gain on the sub correct. I was eager to hear my SVS so I ran like this for a couple of days until I had the house to myself again, and then I ran my 8pt calibration. After the 8pt, my bass was noticeably thinner in the 50-100hz range than it was with my 1 spot calibration.

Flatter? Correct? Reference? IDK, but it is thinner and everything else sounds exactly the same to my ears (no measuring gear), so I was just hoping someone could prove I'm not crazy.........Many a Dr. has tried, and failed. tongue.gif

Not sure what is to contribute to that, but go back to single measurement and you get the good bass back? Can you double check your sub distances between the two calibrations or is it too late?

Quote:
Originally Posted by avtexan View Post

I have a Marantz AV8801 on the way. I am looking at a pair of SubMersive HP+ subs. Using the Master / Slave combo will only use one of the sub outs. Both of my subs will be on the front wall. This is the only spot I have for them.

Is using the 1 sub out a disadvantage in Audyssey? Is there any advantage to not go with the master / slave combo and using 2 SubM HP's (non slave) on the 2 subs outs?

If the subs are equidistant from your listening position and/or co-located then a single sw out is ok, otherwise, it never hurts to use both since you have them smile.gif
post #65288 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Only Pro requires three measurements, Keith.

 

It does??  XT32 will let you use just one measurement??  It's a loooong time since I used XT32 but I was convinced it demanded a minimum of three. Well I never... :)

 

 

Edit: baptig to the rescue!!


Edited by kbarnes701 - 10/1/13 at 12:48pm
post #65289 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Not sure what is to contribute to that, but go back to single measurement and you get the good bass back? Can you double check your sub distances between the two calibrations or is it too late?

It's not too late as write down all of the parameters each and every time I do a calibration.........My wife calls it OCD, I call it thorough.cool.gif To answer your question, all of the speakers were within 1/10" including the sub for all of my "SVS Calibrations" regardless of how many mic positions were used. The levels were all very close also +/- .05db.
post #65290 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

1 measurement at the MLP and then calculate vs a traditional 8pt calibration of the room. Not 8 measurements from a single spot. smile.gif

You can't do that. Audyssey requires a minimum of three measurements.

Only on Onkyo products AFAIK. Denon/Marantz doesn't have this restriction. I can do a quick single point calibration if I'm in a rush.

When I set up an Onkyo 3008 for a friend a couple of years ago I was surprised by this. Another difference I found (hopefully Onkyo has fixed this since!) is that when I hit "cancel" during the measurements, the Onk cancelled the ENTIRE calibration. With Denons, when you hit "cancel" during a measurement, it just cancels that single measurement point. So, for example, if you are on mic position #5 and a barking dog interrupts a measurement, you can just cancel position #5 and restart it after locking the dog in the bathroom, without having to redo the first 4 positions. I tried this on the Onk 3008 when something disturbed a measurement point and was P.O.d to find that it kicked me back to the beginning.

 

Ah - good. So both Jerry AND I am right :)  Phew!  Thanks for this info, bp.

 

And yes, Cancel on the Onk does mean 'cancel the lot'. 

post #65291 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

It's not too late as write down all of the parameters each and every time I do a calibration.........My wife calls it OCD, I call it thorough. cool.gif To answer your question, all of the speakers were within 1/10" including the sub for all of my "SVS Calibrations" .

 

Jerry - is this another of your students?  LOL!!  

post #65292 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Jerry - is this another of your students?  LOL!!  

+1...OCD on measurements should be SOP!

Look at it this way: a tape measure is generally cheaper than a boom mic stand....biggrin.gif
post #65293 of 70896
I have been listening to my 4pt calibration with everything from Selena Gomez, (don't judge me) to Jason Aldean to Puddle of mudd to Disturbed and I am ecstatic with the Audyssey results, as well as my new SVS sub too. Sometimes 4 is better than 8. biggrin.gif
post #65294 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Ah - good. So both Jerry AND I am right smile.gif  Phew!  Thanks for this info, bp.

And yes, Cancel on the Onk does mean 'cancel the lot'. 

Yes, sorry, Keith. I forget that there are differences in manufacturer's implementations of Audyssey. I like being able to do a quick one-point measurement because, like I reported earlier, this is how I fine-tune the speaker distances.
post #65295 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by avtexan View Post

I have a Marantz AV8801 on the way. I am looking at a pair of SubMersive HP+ subs. Using the Master / Slave combo will only use one of the sub outs. Both of my subs will be on the front wall. This is the only spot I have for them.

Is using the 1 sub out a disadvantage in Audyssey? Is there any advantage to not go with the master / slave combo and using 2 SubM HP's (non slave) on the 2 subs outs?



I have the 8801 and although I only have one sub hooked up right now, when I add a second one I'm going with the #2 sub out. Unless you were going to use more than 2 subs I can't imagine connecting it any other way. Maybe someone that has done it the way your stating has a comment.
post #65296 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

I have been listening to my 4pt calibration with everything from Selena Gomez, (don't judge me) to Jason Aldean to Puddle of mudd to Disturbed and I am ecstatic with the Audyssey results, as well as my new SVS sub too. Sometimes 4 is better than 8. biggrin.gif

A installer told me that with Audyssey and a single LP to use 4 to 6 positions as more just flattens out the audio too much for just you.
post #65297 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

A installer told me that with Audyssey and a single LP to use 4 to 6 positions as more just flattens out the audio too much for just you.


Hmmmm, interesting. I have to say that right now, with my current 4 position calibration, my system sounds phenomenal. My new SVS my have something to do with that, but damn.........cool.gif
post #65298 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

... then I could 'prove' them with cool, colorful graphs.

I'm really glad you put the word "prove" in quotes. smile.gif The only instance I can think of that wouldn't require quotation marks around that particular word would be in math ... and even then ....
post #65299 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

A installer told me that with Audyssey and a single LP to use 4 to 6 positions as more just flattens out the audio too much for just you.

What in the world can the installer mean? If someone is really using a single LP, how can Audyssey results using more mic positions be too flat for that person? Unless he means that you might want to deviate from flat and establish a house curve reflecting your preference, but then I would think the person using the single LP would want to do that with a method that provides more control than simply using fewer mics. Or can he mean by "flattens out the audio too much" that it makes it dull and lifeless (i.e., "flat in another way)? Or is he reminding you to use the Audyssey Reference curve, with its high end roll-off, or else the result would be flattened out too much (but wouldn't that have little or nothing to do with the number of positions)? Or does he mean that you might want some other person to share your listening on occasion, and therefore you wouldn't want the audio optimized for "just you?"
post #65300 of 70896
Let me translate for you, Gary. When he says "...more just flattens out the audio too much for just you.", what he is really saying is "I don't really know what I am talking about, so you must feel really stupid for spending your money for my services."
post #65301 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Let me translate for you, Gary. When he says "...more just flattens out the audio too much for just you.", what he is really saying is "I don't really know what I am talking about, so you must feel really stupid for spending your money for my services."

 

LOL!  Very well put.

post #65302 of 70896
Oh boy, yea he hasn't done his homework. Is this a "Geek Squad" installer?
post #65303 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Oh boy, yea he hasn't done his homework. Is this a "Geek Squad" installer?

 

Whatever he is, English clearly  isn't his first language ;)

post #65304 of 70896
I hope this isn't in the FAQ smile.gif
I only care about one single listening position - yes - i'm selfish.
Is there a recommendation or even better a diagram for how to do the eight XT32 positions for this scenario?
I know i should use a "tight" pattern.
Just do a 12" diameter circle around my head?
Do i need all 8 positions for this case?

thanks !
post #65305 of 70896
^^^
I don't have have the Audyssey expirience to advise you what to do in your case, but I can tell you my thoughts after I did a tight pattern centered around the MLP. I did the first position smack in the middle of my ears and all of the remaining 7 positions by the book (meaning the correct positions) but within a foot of the first one. Sitting in the MLP was quite amazing, the sound was very balanced and I REALLY liked it. But when I slid over a seat I thought it was somewhat lacking. So ultimately I did a little wider pattern but not by the book. After I change my cabinet and place my LCR a little differently I'm going to do the traditional mic placement and if I don't like it I will go with what I have now, which is between tight and normal. I hope this made sense smile.gif
Edited by comfynumb - 10/2/13 at 12:30pm
post #65306 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by bao01 View Post

I hope this isn't in the FAQ smile.gif
I only care about one single listening position - yes - i'm selfish.
Is there a recommendation or even better a diagram for how to do the eight XT32 positions for this scenario?
I know i should use a "tight" pattern.
Just do a 12" diameter circle around my head?
Do i need all 8 positions for this case?

thanks !

I would do like 6 covering the whole cushion and one to the left and right about 12 inches into the other cushion
post #65307 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

^^^

...if I don't like it I will go with what I have now, which is between tight and normal. I hope I made sense smile.gif

Can you define what you mean by between tight and normal?
post #65308 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Can you define what you mean by between tight and normal?



Remember I'm an Audyssey rookie Jerry biggrin.gif

Ok, #1 right between the ears #2 was 1 1/2' to the right of MLP #3 1 1/2' to the left. #4 #5 #6 were 6" in front of #1 #2 #3. #7 6" behind MLP and 9" to the left. #8 6" behind the MLP and 9" to the right. This was my 4th and final run on Friday and I'm liking it. My first 3 runs were tighter maybe half of the above, and it was IMO to centered around the MLP and if I slid a seat over it was pretty noticeable.

By normal mic positions I mean the traditional or recommended positions. #1-2-3 in the middle of each seat.
By the way my name is John guys and I've enjoyed following this thread since around February.
Edited by comfynumb - 10/2/13 at 2:42pm
post #65309 of 70896
Your OCD pin will be mailed to you shortly biggrin.gif
post #65310 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

^^^
I don't have have the Audyssey expirience to advise you what to do in your case, but I can tell you my thoughts after I did a tight pattern centered around the MLP. I did the first position smack in the middle of my ears and all of the remaining 7 positions by the book (meaning the correct positions) but within a foot of the first one. Sitting in the MLP was quite amazing, the sound was very balanced and I REALLY liked it. But when I slid over a seat I thought it was somewhat lacking. So ultimately I did a little wider pattern but not by the book. After I change my cabinet and place my LCR a little differently I'm going to do the traditional mic placement and if I don't like it I will go with what I have now, which is between tight and normal. I hope this made sense smile.gif

thanks - i will try
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