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"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2216

post #66451 of 70892
i know i saved it. the receiver was showing these settings but then later that night it disappeared. any idea how so i don't do it again?
post #66452 of 70892
A power surge can wipe the memory. It happened to me once where I had a quick (several seconds) blackout and then power came back on. My Audyssey calibration was wiped. Always a good idea to utilize the Network Save feature after you have completed a "good" calibration.
post #66453 of 70892
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

A power surge can wipe the memory. It happened to me once where I had a quick (several seconds) blackout and then power came back on. My Audyssey calibration was wiped. Always a good idea to utilize the Network Save feature after you have completed a "good" calibration.

Amen; sometimes you don't know something's wrong until there's something that leaps out at you. That once happened to me when one of the dogs stepped on a subwoofer power cord for one of my two subs, and it got disconnected. It took me about a week of inconsistent listening to notice that the bass was neutered LOL....at least with Network Save, you have a contingency to avoid having to re-invent the wheel!
post #66454 of 70892
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Another option -- since the Klipsch RW-12D has a digital control panel -- is to tweak at the sub itself.

Another setting to check in the receiver is the LFE volume, most receivers allow you to attenuate the LFE directly (the big rumbly stuff) up to 10dB or more.

do you mean in your first statement to just turn the volume down on the sub--doesn't that affect the whole point of audyssey calibration by turning down the bass here?

also when you say the attenuation, moving up higher to 10db will help with my issue?
post #66455 of 70892
well the power never shut off and it kept all the distance information for the speakers
post #66456 of 70892
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

It is absolutely not recommended to hold the mic in your hand, period. The resulting calibration cannot be guaranteed to be even approaching good. Yo can buy a boom mic stand for less than 20 dollars, which makes it much easier to do the calibration and gives a reliable result.

More information here:

d)1.   Do I really need to put the Audyssey mic on a tripod or stand?

Of course, you are free to do the calibration any way you choose - but if you encounter any problems you won't get any support here because the first thing people will tell you to do is use a mic stand or a tripod. Entirely up to you how you do it, but it's anyone's guess if you are even getting close to a good calibration when you hand-hold the mic.

But why? Why can't someone actually explain how it screws it up if you're not fidgeting around and creating "handling noise"? i haven't encountered any problems. That's what i just said in my previous post. I've been hand holding mine ever since I got my AVR, using common sense, and Audyssey sounds wonderful and balanced in my theater room, better than direct mode, and I'm satisfied with the sound I'm getting. You guys make it sound like it will be total crap if you hand hold it. After my experience, I doubt it.
Edited by gts007 - 11/1/13 at 1:10pm
post #66457 of 70892
Try as you might, you can't possibly hold the mic absolutely still for 6-8 positions, whilst keeping your body far enough away to not affect the mic's capture, and do this consistently without making any noise whatsoever. I don't think your method is going to create a WORSE response than not doing it altogether, but you can certainly improve on your overall audyssey calibration by simply ordering one little tiny mic stand for $20.00. The mic is sensitive to even a centimeter change in grazing angle (tilted mic) or distance move. When you consider audyssey corrects response and distance settings down to an inch, you really do need to be quite precise here.
post #66458 of 70892
Quote:
Originally Posted by bthrb4u View Post

well the power never shut off and it kept all the distance information for the speakers

Before you re-run try going into the Audyssey Setup menu and see if it lets you "Restore" the calibration.
post #66459 of 70892
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuffluck View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Another option -- since the Klipsch RW-12D has a digital control panel -- is to tweak at the sub itself.

Another setting to check in the receiver is the LFE volume, most receivers allow you to attenuate the LFE directly (the big rumbly stuff) up to 10dB or more.

do you mean in your first statement to just turn the volume down on the sub--doesn't that affect the whole point of audyssey calibration by turning down the bass here?

also when you say the attenuation, moving up higher to 10db will help with my issue?

 

Changing the sub level won't affect the Audyssey calibration. It makes no sonic difference whether you do it on the sub or via the trim levels. People usually recommend doing it via the trims because it's easier to go back to a known setting that way. But if your subs have a digital gain control, then that problem doesn't arise for you, so you can change the setting at the sub or at the trim. A lot (most?) of people run their subs a little hot. All you would be doing is the same thing, but running them a little 'cool'.

post #66460 of 70892
not seeing a restore anywhere
post #66461 of 70892
Quote:
Originally Posted by gts007 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

It is absolutely not recommended to hold the mic in your hand, period. The resulting calibration cannot be guaranteed to be even approaching good. Yo can buy a boom mic stand for less than 20 dollars, which makes it much easier to do the calibration and gives a reliable result.

More information here:

d)1.   Do I really need to put the Audyssey mic on a tripod or stand?

Of course, you are free to do the calibration any way you choose - but if you encounter any problems you won't get any support here because the first thing people will tell you to do is use a mic stand or a tripod. Entirely up to you how you do it, but it's anyone's guess if you are even getting close to a good calibration when you hand-hold the mic.

But why? Why can't someone actually explain how it screws it up if you're not fidgeting around and creating "handling noise"? i haven't encountered any problems. That's what i just said in my previous post. I've been hand holding mine ever since I got my AVR, using common sense, and Audyssey sounds wonderful and balanced in my theater room, better than direct mode, and I'm satisfied with the sound I'm getting. You guys make it sound like it will be total crap if you hand hold it. After my experience, I doubt it.

 

Not total crap - but unpredictable. Moving the mic by very small amounts influences the measurements more than the small movement might suggest. Most people cannot hold a mic in one precise location without it moving a little. Maybe you can, which is fine. But it's non-standard use of Audyssey and generally introduces problems. If you are happy with your calibration, that's fine - but if you weren;t and had come here for advice, the first (and possibly only) piece of advice you'd get would be "use a tripod or a mic stand".

post #66462 of 70892
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Try as you might, you can't possibly hold the mic absolutely still for 6-8 positions, whilst keeping your body far enough away to not affect the mic's capture, and do this consistently without making any noise whatsoever. I don't think your method is going to create a WORSE response than not doing it altogether, but you can certainly improve on your overall audyssey calibration by simply ordering one little tiny mic stand for $20.00. The mic is sensitive to even a centimeter change in grazing angle (tilted mic) or distance move. When you consider audyssey corrects response and distance settings down to an inch, you really do need to be quite precise here.

 

+1. Just seems perverse to me to spend thousands of $$$ on a system and then possibly screw up one of its best features for the sake of another 20 bucks. I mean, a mic stand is like less than 1 percent of the system cost... for many it's even a fraction of 1 percent.

post #66463 of 70892
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Try as you might, you can't possibly hold the mic absolutely still for 6-8 positions, whilst keeping your body far enough away to not affect the mic's capture, and do this consistently without making any noise whatsoever. I don't think your method is going to create a WORSE response than not doing it altogether, but you can certainly improve on your overall audyssey calibration by simply ordering one little tiny mic stand for $20.00. The mic is sensitive to even a centimeter change in grazing angle (tilted mic) or distance move. When you consider audyssey corrects response and distance settings down to an inch, you really do need to be quite precise here.
My method can't be that bad if I'm already experiencing an improvement over direct mode. I don't see what's so difficult about having some street smarts and holding it still within a millimeter of tolerance (1cm is gigantic by my standards) and not making extra noise. I've already done it this way a dozen times. But I'll give it a shot with a tripod anyway, and I expect to be blown away by the difference (It probably won't happen).
post #66464 of 70892
I am (and I'm sure everyone else too) HIGHLY suspicious of your claim to be able to hold it still to within a millimeter. Unless you hold your breath and practice some crazy yogi meditative statue pose.

Your argument would be more persuasive if you didn't persist on referring to this strawman where everyone says you will have "total crap" calibration.

The bottom line is that if you are happy with the results and your methods, then just enjoy. You can certainly get a perfectly good sounding system using suboptimal calibration technique. But the fact that you think it sounds good doesn't provide any objective evidence that you getting the best calibration possible. So it's up to YOU whether it's worth dragging out a tripod to see if you can improve the results, just like it's up to YOU whether you are willing to invest time repositioning speakers and subwoofers, adding acoustic treatments, etc. to optimize sound.

Quote:
Just seems perverse to me to spend thousands of $$$ on a system and then possibly screw up one of its best features for the sake of another 20 bucks. I mean, a mic stand is like less than 1 percent of the system cost... for many it's even a fraction of 1 percent.

He said he already owns several tripods. So it's not cheapness, just laziness.
post #66465 of 70892
Stubborn. rolleyes.gif
post #66466 of 70892
Quote:
Originally Posted by gts007 View Post

But why? Why can't someone actually explain how it screws it up...

You may go to Ask Audyssey where the question has been answered already. Post at October 12, 2011 03:53 pm

It says:

Q: "I was thinking - would it be a disaster if I where to just lay on the floor or couch or whatever and held the microphone in place with my hand, as long as I stay UNDER the mic- and not anywhere around it?"

A: "It's not ideal, but you will get OK results by holding the mic. You may have high frequency problems because of reflections from your hand or body..."

The high frequency problems due to reflections from your hand or body means Audyssey will create a filter that rolls off the top of the audible band. In otherwords, due to excessive high frequency contents caused by reflections off your body or your hand and recorded by the mic will result in a final frequency response curve that has an unwanted HF roll-off, or in layman's it will sounding like treble turned down, simply dull when you take your comfy seat at the MLP.

Hope this helps.

I use a tripod. smile.gif
post #66467 of 70892
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

You may go to Ask Audyssey where the question has been answered already. Post at October 12, 2011 03:53 pm

It says:

Q: "I was thinking - would it be a disaster if I where to just lay on the floor or couch or whatever and held the microphone in place with my hand, as long as I stay UNDER the mic- and not anywhere around it?"

A: "It's not ideal, but you will get OK results by holding the mic. You may have high frequency problems because of reflections from your hand or body..."

The high frequency problems due to reflections from your hand or body means Audyssey will create a filter that rolls off the top of the audible band. In otherwords, due to excessive high frequency contents caused by reflections off your body or your hand and recorded by the mic will result in a final frequency response curve that has an unwanted HF roll-off, or in layman's it will sounding like treble turned down, simply dull when you take your comfy seat at the MLP.

Hope this helps.

I use a tripod. smile.gif

I was thinking about that. But after comparing Audyssey flat to the other modes, I think flat is giving me an amount of treble that I'm very happy with in my room. I wouldn't really want more; it would be too bright for my taste.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

Stubborn. rolleyes.gif

thanks for the compliment and for that valuable contribution to the discussion rolleyes.gif And thanks for reading the part where I said I'll give it a shot with the tripod rolleyes.gif


AVS forum rolleyes.gif
Edited by gts007 - 11/1/13 at 2:17pm
post #66468 of 70892
Quote:
Originally Posted by gts007 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Try as you might, you can't possibly hold the mic absolutely still for 6-8 positions, whilst keeping your body far enough away to not affect the mic's capture, and do this consistently without making any noise whatsoever. I don't think your method is going to create a WORSE response than not doing it altogether, but you can certainly improve on your overall audyssey calibration by simply ordering one little tiny mic stand for $20.00. The mic is sensitive to even a centimeter change in grazing angle (tilted mic) or distance move. When you consider audyssey corrects response and distance settings down to an inch, you really do need to be quite precise here.
My method can't be that bad if I'm already experiencing an improvement over direct mode. I don't see what's so difficult about having some street smarts and holding it still within a millimeter of tolerance (1cm is gigantic by my standards) and not making extra noise. I've already done it this way a dozen times. But I'll give it a shot with a tripod anyway, and I expect to be blown away by the difference (It probably won't happen).

 

Feel free to do it your way. Your system, your money, your ears.

post #66469 of 70892
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I am (and I'm sure everyone else too) HIGHLY suspicious of your claim to be able to hold it still to within a millimeter. Unless you hold your breath and practice some crazy yogi meditative statue pose.

Your argument would be more persuasive if you didn't persist on referring to this strawman where everyone says you will have "total crap" calibration.

The bottom line is that if you are happy with the results and your methods, then just enjoy. You can certainly get a perfectly good sounding system using suboptimal calibration technique. But the fact that you think it sounds good doesn't provide any objective evidence that you getting the best calibration possible. So it's up to YOU whether it's worth dragging out a tripod to see if you can improve the results, just like it's up to YOU whether you are willing to invest time repositioning speakers and subwoofers, adding acoustic treatments, etc. to optimize sound.
 
Quote:
Just seems perverse to me to spend thousands of $$$ on a system and then possibly screw up one of its best features for the sake of another 20 bucks. I mean, a mic stand is like less than 1 percent of the system cost... for many it's even a fraction of 1 percent.

He said he already owns several tripods. So it's not cheapness, just laziness.

 

+1 to your post in general - and wrt to the remark immediately above, yes, I had missed that point.

post #66470 of 70892
Quote:
Originally Posted by gts007 View Post

But why? Why can't someone actually explain how it screws it up if you're not fidgeting around and creating "handling noise"? i haven't encountered any problems. That's what i just said in my previous post. I've been hand holding mine ever since I got my AVR, using common sense, and Audyssey sounds wonderful and balanced in my theater room, better than direct mode, and I'm satisfied with the sound I'm getting. You guys make it sound like it will be total crap if you hand hold it. After my experience, I doubt it.



There's a reason Audyssey and everyone on this and other Audyssey threads recommend a tripod or mic stand. No where in the Audyssey F&Q does it say to hold the mic, and your IMO bringing variables into the calibration that you could flat out eliminate by using the proper equipment. Once you spend the $20-$30 on the stand you'll always have it.
Edited by comfynumb - 11/1/13 at 2:38pm
post #66471 of 70892
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gts007 View Post

But why? Why can't someone actually explain how it screws it up if you're not fidgeting around and creating "handling noise"? i haven't encountered any problems. That's what i just said in my previous post. I've been hand holding mine ever since I got my AVR, using common sense, and Audyssey sounds wonderful and balanced in my theater room, better than direct mode, and I'm satisfied with the sound I'm getting. You guys make it sound like it will be total crap if you hand hold it. After my experience, I doubt it.



There's a reason Audyssey and everyone on this and other Audyssey threads recommend a tripod or mic stand. No where in the Audyssey F&Q does it say to hold the mic, and your IMO bringing variables into the calibration that you could flat out eliminate by using the proper equipment. Once you spend the $20-$30 on the stand you'll always have it.

 

It really is a no-brainer. It's 20 bucks FFS! 20 bucks compared with thousands for the system cost. IMO a tripod is 'just OK' but it's not all that easy to use, it can cause problems with its design, the size of the head, the thickness of the legs etc and usually it has to be used with one leg on the chairs, which is far from ideal. But a mic stand has been designed <drum roll> to hold a mic. It has none of the aforementioned problems and it costs 20 bucks. Did I mention it costs 20 bucks? D'oh.

post #66472 of 70892
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

There's a reason Audyssey and everyone on this and other Audyssey threads recommend a tripod or mic stand. No where in the Audyssey F&Q does it say to hold the mic, and your IMO bringing variables into the calibration that you could flat out eliminate by using the proper equipment. Once you spend the $20-$30 on the stand you'll always have it.

I stack couch pillows up and set it on them. I don't know how accurate this is, but I cannot see how it moves a mm unless you are using very soft down. Thoughts?
post #66473 of 70892
My OH has a camera tripod with a little attachment that screws into the base of the Audyssey mic, so I use that. It means I can be very consistent with my readings (I usually take 2-3 'basic' set ups to ensure that all the speaker pairs measure the same distance apart since my MPL is dead centre widthways). Once I'm happy with this basic measurement I can then run the full 8 point starting with the mic in this exact position...no way could I do that by hand or even with cushions.

I'm pretty sure it was about £20 as well (£1 = $1 in the usual AV exchange rate wink.gif ). smile.gif
post #66474 of 70892
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuffluck View Post

I stack couch pillows up and set it on them. I don't know how accurate this is, but I cannot see how it moves a mm unless you are using very soft down. Thoughts?

Its not the moving of the mic here that's the problem, but the reflections from the cushions could cause an issue with the accuracy of the mic reading.
post #66475 of 70892
I have a $10 floor standing lamp with a firm but flexible arm with a second light attached. i used electrical tape to secure the mic to the arm and it works great because the base is parallel with the floor and simply slides underneath the couch allowing me to get the mic at my exact listening position
post #66476 of 70892
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuffluck View Post

I stack couch pillows up and set it on them. I don't know how accurate this is, but I cannot see how it moves a mm unless you are using very soft down. Thoughts?

the pillows themselves create a boundary very close to the mic. unless your pillows are 2 inches by 2 inches, this in fact could be more detrimental than holding the mic "in your hand" Even though the mic isnt moving in this case, the pillows themselves are the actual issue.

I guess that is just my "elitist" opinion though so take it FWIW tongue.gifcool.gifrolleyes.gif
post #66477 of 70892
Quote:
Originally Posted by bthrb4u View Post

I have a $10 floor standing lamp with a firm but flexible arm with a second light attached. i used electrical tape to secure the mic to the arm and it works great because the base is parallel with the floor and simply slides underneath the couch allowing me to get the mic at my exact listening position

What do you do for the additional 5 or 7 measurements?
post #66478 of 70892
i move the mic after each sweep.....
post #66479 of 70892
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuffluck View Post

I stack couch pillows up and set it on them. I don't know how accurate this is, but I cannot see how it moves a mm unless you are using very soft down. Thoughts?



Use the tripod or tripod with boom arm preferably, your calibration will probably be more accurate.
post #66480 of 70892
? lol, curious as to what you meant by that
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