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"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2252

post #67531 of 70896
Thanks SoundofMind, I suspected as much. I really like how Audyssey is able to improve the overall sound quality of my system given the rather challenging configuration of my room. My bass with or without Audyssey seems acceptable. One really distinct and noticeable difference that I found with a quick A/B comparison was that Audyssey extends the field of my centre image. Anyway I will continue to tweak the system. I can't complain as I am very happy with the new speakers.
post #67532 of 70896
Hi ,
I recently set up the home theater with Denon AVR-1713 and Martin logan speakers MTT-2.

After running MultiEQ XT setup multiple time and changing the subwoofer placement , I have issues with bass .
Bass is mild and low. Is it something thing common with Audysey setup lowing the bass output.

I am new to this Audyssey set up , I there any specific setting that could boost the bass.

Thanks
Dhinesh
post #67533 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhanaa Alaas View Post

Hi ,
I recently set up the home theater with Denon AVR-1713 and Martin logan speakers MTT-2.

After running MultiEQ XT setup multiple time and changing the subwoofer placement , I have issues with bass .
Bass is mild and low. Is it something thing common with Audysey setup lowing the bass output.

I am new to this Audyssey set up , I there any specific setting that could boost the bass.

Thanks
Dhinesh



Hi, many of the guys boost the bass post Audyssey as they find it a little low, and it's advised to boost the sub trim in your AVR not by the subs gain. I boost mine anywhere from 3-8db depending on the source. What was your post Audyssey trim level for your sub?
post #67534 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhanaa Alaas View Post

I there any specific setting that could boost the bass.
Try turning on DEQ (Dynamic EQ), try boosting the subwoofer level slightly, try turning up the bass control.
post #67535 of 70896
And before you do any of the above make sure bass management is properly configured (all speakers set to "small" with at least an 80hz crossover) do the sub is getting the low stuff.
post #67536 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibmack View Post

hi, I probably don't have the expertise to be on this thread so forgive my audio ignorance in advance.

I have Axiom's new LFR1100 omnidirectional speakers within my 7.2 setup. I have an Onkyo 5009 with Audyssey - which I find indispensable. The LFRs require two channels per speaker, therefore I run my L&R pre-outs from Onkyo to the LFR DSP box that splits each channel and does what it does with the signals. 4 signals then go to my amp then to speakers. Trouble is Axiom says don't use Audyssey because it will mess with the signal out of the preamp and confound the DSP. That actually makes sense to me if I assume the DSP does more than just split the signals. So the question is whether there is a work around. Would it be possible to run Audyssey for all speakers except for the LFRs? Is there some advice anyone can give me?

This thread isn't about needing a certain level of knowledge to ask away my friend! Varying levels of intellect are what we strive on around here and this is a place of learning smile.gif You have certainly come to the right area. I think those LFR's are the ones with the rear mounted tweeter correct? If so, I would have to agree that audyssey might cause some problems with the response plots being accurate. SoM suggested running audyssey, and then seeing if there is a way to bypass L/R with the Onkyo's like there is on the Denon/Marantz models. If not, run audyssey to see what it gets you at least for your speaker distances and trim levels and then disable it, preserving those distances for all your other speakers, and then manually calibrating the fronts to what sounds best to you.
post #67537 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhanaa Alaas View Post

Hi ,
I recently set up the home theater with Denon AVR-1713 and Martin logan speakers MTT-2.

After running MultiEQ XT setup multiple time and changing the subwoofer placement , I have issues with bass .
Bass is mild and low. Is it something thing common with Audysey setup lowing the bass output.

I am new to this Audyssey set up , I there any specific setting that could boost the bass.

Thanks
Dhinesh

 

There is a FAQ answer specifically for this...

 

)5.    Since I ran Audyssey everything sounds great - but where has my bass gone?

post #67538 of 70896
I've been playing around with Audyssey on and off for the past month and I'm torn. With Audyssey on, the front soundstage sounds as if it is one big speaker with every sound very tight and articulated. With it off, it sounds more open, but sounds are easily localized from the front speakers and it isn't tight. I kind of like the airy feel of "off" but it just sounds more articulated with it "on". I assume that it is correct for Audyssey to be a little tighter and more centered?
post #67539 of 70896

^That is not inconsistent with what I heard when critical listening to well-recorded material with MultEQ.  I heard it less so with MultEQXT and was willing to make the "sacrifice."  But I hear very very little of that loss of airiness/room ambiance with XT32/Pro.

post #67540 of 70896
Thanks. I'm about to upgrade my receiver to one that includes XT32, so that makes me happy.
post #67541 of 70896
Hey it's D Bone, the guy complaining about harshness. I was going to post this in a few days, but Tom Riddle's post made me want to do it now. I have been trying to think how I can better explain the harshness that I perceive with Audyssey XT engaged and I think I have come up with it, so here goes.

I don't believe my harshness to be excessive treble like I think I led everyone to believe. I think the mid range, upper mid range and lower treble is too focused with XT. Again, not the greatest wording or explanation I know, but I thought of an example that might better explain it than my poor verbalization skills do.

Imagine a person speaking loudly to you 3 feet away from you face. Imagine what that would sound like. Now imaging that same person, speaking at the same SPL, at the same distance, but this time he is doing it through a cardboard paper towel tube thingy. (there goes D Bone's great verbalization skills again) The sound would now be way too focused and harsh...............That is what XT seems to do in my home. It seems to make the front sound stage "one big speaker" as Tom said. With XT OFF, the sound stage is wider and less focused and more pleasing to me. I believe this to be the best way to describe what I am complaining about.
post #67542 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

Hey it's D Bone, the guy complaining about harshness. I was going to post this in a few days, but Tom Riddle's post made me want to do it now. I have been trying to think how I can better explain the harshness that I perceive with Audyssey XT engaged and I think I have come up with it, so here goes.

I don't believe my harshness to be excessive treble like I think I led everyone to believe. I think the mid range, upper mid range and lower treble is too focused with XT. Again, not the greatest wording or explanation I know, but I thought of an example that might better explain it than my poor verbalization skills do.

Imagine a person speaking loudly to you 3 feet away from you face. Imagine what that would sound like. Now imaging that same person, speaking at the same SPL, at the same distance, but this time he is doing it through a cardboard paper towel tube thingy. (there goes D Bone's great verbalization skills again) The sound would now be way too focused and harsh...............That is what XT seems to do in my home. It seems to make the front sound stage "one big speaker" as Tom said. With XT OFF, the sound stage is wider and less focused and more pleasing to me. I believe this to be the best way to describe what I am complaining about.

has anybody suggested you make sure your receiver is not foolishly defaulting to have dynamic volume on when Audyssey is on? while every situation differs, your concerns don't sound like they're likely to result from application of typical AUdyssey EQ. But they sure sound like what can happen with aggressive (like DynVol on full strength) dynamic compression - - it affects everything from soundstaging to frequency content. as an example I offer the piano on the Beatles' Lady Madonna (if you can hear that in your head0. No piano in the entire world sounds like that. It's being utterly crushed through a compressor (Fairchild? I forget) and it massively changes the sound of the piano, pushing the mids/high mids way forward, among other things.
The fix is easy. Turn off DynVol. It's really useful when you need it but can be very intrusive when you're listening at levels where it's "benefits" are not necessary (I use it at full strength all the time for nighttime classical music so that I can hear everything without the loud parts (which may average 20 dB higher than quiet sections - - AVERAGE, not peak) interfering with my going-to-sleep process
post #67543 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

has anybody suggested you make sure your receiver is not foolishly defaulting to have dynamic volume on when Audyssey is on? while every situation differs, your concerns don't sound like they're likely to result from application of EQ. But they sure sound like what can happen with aggressive (like DynVol on full strength) dynamic compression - - it affects everything from soundstaging to frequency content. as an example I offer the piano on the BEatles' Lady Madonna (if you can hear that in your head. No piano in the entire world sounds like that. It's being utterly crushed through a compressor (Fairchild? I forget) and it massively changes the sound of the piano, pushing the mids/high mids way forward, among other things.

Yes, I can confirm 100% that DV is OFF. DEQ (when on) is @ 0db RLO and the EQ curve is the standard Audyssey Reference Curve.
post #67544 of 70896
I've found that for music Audyssey flat sounds much better with the RLO set at 5db, YMMV.
post #67545 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

Yes, I can confirm 100% that DV is OFF. DEQ (when on) is @ 0db RLO and the EQ curve is the standard Audyssey Reference Curve.



Hi D Bone, is your harshness during movies?
post #67546 of 70896

^D, that's not how I'd put what I'm talking about.  I am describing what I critically listen for with very well-recorded source material, usually at least some acoustic instruments and/or vocals.  I took "one big speaker" as meaning that the individual speakers "disappear" with Audyssey-IOW, you close your eyes and hear a well integrated soundstage.  It's not as though the sounds are coming from two boxes.  Instruments are well-localized and distinctly placed where they were mixed.  In Stereo, that can be from far L to far R all across the front.

 

OTOH, the decay of a cymbal or slight echo/reverb of a vocal is not well-localized-that adds ambiance, "air" or spaciouness.  Another quality I listen for is the detail present-bow or pick on string, for ex..  The latter two qualities were often adversely affected with the lesser versions of Audyssey I had. 

post #67547 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Hi D Bone, is your harshness during movies?

Hey comfy, I only notice the harshness as the MV goes up, with both movies and music in PL II Music mode. -18 and lower, it sounds fine, but with Audyssey engaged, -12 is almost unbearable, whereas with Audyssey OFF, or Manual EQ I can go up to -5db with the same scenes in total comfort..........Loud, heck yea, but not harsh.

Many a participant on this thread has tried to help, and it's very much appreciated. I just thought I would give a better description of what I meant by "harshness".
post #67548 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

Hey comfy, I only notice the harshness as the MV goes up, with both movies and music in PL II Music mode. -18 and lower, it sounds fine, but with Audyssey engaged, -12 is almost unbearable, whereas with Audyssey OFF, or Manual EQ I can go up to -5db with the same scenes in total comfort..........Loud, heck yea, but not harsh.

Many a participant on this thread has tried to help, and it's very much appreciated. I just thought I would give a better description of what I meant by "harshness".



I gotcha, have you ever tried to treat your first reflection points? This has helped me especially in the upper midrange and treble areas.
post #67549 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

I gotcha, have you ever tried to treat your first reflection points? This has helped me especially in the upper midrange and treble areas.

Unfortunately, that is not an option as my system is living room based, and comes with all of the caveats of the typical married guy's living room system. If my system were harsh with both Audyssey ON and OFF, I wouldn't have an issue, but I specially bought my receiver because of Audyssey, and fully expected it to "tame" any room issues, not accentuate them. I have been told before that Audyssey doesn't really "tame" room issues, and my expectations were unrealistic.......Um, OK.

Audyssey did give me a general idea of what each speaker needs in terms of manual EQ, and it does a great job of measuring my subwoofer SPL as well as speaker delays, so I guess it's not a complete waste. rolleyes.gif
post #67550 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

Unfortunately, that is not an option as my system is living room based, and comes with all of the caveats of the typical married guy's living room system. If my system were harsh with both Audyssey ON and OFF, I wouldn't have an issue, but I specially bought my receiver because of Audyssey, and fully expected it to "tame" any room issues, not accentuate them. I have been told before that Audyssey doesn't really "tame" room issues, and my expectations were unrealistic.......Um, OK.

Audyssey did give me a general idea of what each speaker needs in terms of manual EQ, and it does a great job of measuring my subwoofer SPL as well as speaker delays, so I guess it's not a complete waste. rolleyes.gif



I'm not trying to tell you what to do and I understand the importance of the WAF. That's why I got rid of her biggrin.gif totally kidding here D Bone. My first reflections are windows so Overstock.com had some GF approved heavy drapes, in fact she picked them out. I'm an Audyssey beginner but what all the guys here have suggested has really helped. All I can say is XT32 has made me a believer. Perfect? No way, but it's getting better.
Edited by comfynumb - 12/3/13 at 11:35am
post #67551 of 70896
I came to the same conclusion many years ago with MultEQ and simply turned it off for music listening. Visitors liked Audyssey for music too but I valued the instrument and orchestral staging more than the equalized buttery sound.
I've just discovered SACD and blu-ray audio this year so I upgraded to the NR818 for better definition, presentation and control. I must say MultiEQ XT32 is very seductive for movies but still doesn't do it for me in classical or jazz performances.The engineers have put too much effort into instrument placement and staging to have it adulterated. But then that's why the Pure Audio button is there.
post #67552 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

I specially bought my receiver because of Audyssey, and fully expected it to "tame" any room issues, not accentuate them.
To tame the problem, you turned off Audyssey, you didn't change the room. Which means it's an Audyssey issue, not a room issue (that Audyssey is accentuating).
post #67553 of 70896
See how much our tastes vary? Direct and pure direct do nothing for me. That basically leaves it up to the recording and mastering technician and any kind of standard in any genre just does not exist. I'm not saying it can't sound good in those modes just that it doesn't move me. I'm willing to try a good classical song or two in download form, if someone has any suggestions. It's not my genre so I just don't know the music.
post #67554 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

See how much our tastes vary? Direct and pure direct do nothing for me. That basically leaves it up to the recording and mastering technician and any kind of standard in any genre just does not exist. I'm not saying it can't sound good in those modes just that it doesn't move me. I'm willing to try a good classical song or two in download form, if someone has any suggestions. It's not my genre so I just don't know the music.

Rachmaninoff Symphonic Dances on the Reference Recording label on HD Tracks 96/24 wink.gif
post #67555 of 70896

^^comfy, Ravel's Bolero might be a good place to start-it's kinda catchy and has a good beat. ;) 

 

The Flower duet from Léo Delibes' Lakmé has also been used in film soundtracks because of its appeal, same for Vivaldi's The Four Seasons and Motzart's  "Ein kline Nachtmuzic". 

post #67556 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

To tame the problem, you turned off Audyssey, you didn't change the room. Which means it's an Audyssey issue, not a room issue (that Audyssey is accentuating).

I agree 100%. If it were just one receiver I would fault it or its mic. If I used the same calibration procedure for each of the dozens of times that I have tried to find the magic that some people describe here, I would blame myself, but I have tried everything that has been mentioned to me. If it were my room, speakers or speaker placement then I would have the issue all of the time, with any receiver or EQ program, but I don't.

Oh well, HT life goes on! I didn't want to beat a dead horse or just show back up to bash Audyssey, but I wanted to better describe the harsh sound I hear.
post #67557 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Rachmaninoff Symphonic Dances on the Reference Recording label on HD Tracks 96/24 wink.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

^^comfy, Ravel's Bolero might be a good place to start-it's kinda catchy and has a good beat. wink.gif  

The Flower duet from Léo Delibes' Lakmé has also been used in film soundtracks because of its appeal, same for Vivaldi's The Four Seasons and Motzart's  "Ein kline Nachtmuzic". 



Great thanks guys. I love acoustic guitar and I'm sure I'll find some in there smile.gif
post #67558 of 70896

^oh, guitar-NOW we're talkin!

Asturias (also known as Leyenda) by Issac Albeniz

 

Concierto De Aranjuez - Second Movement - Adagio  (Pepe Romero has a nice version):

post #67559 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

I agree 100%. If it were just one receiver I would fault it or its mic. If I used the same calibration procedure for each of the dozens of times that I have tried to find the magic that some people describe here, I would blame myself, but I have tried everything that has been mentioned to me. If it were my room, speakers or speaker placement then I would have the issue all of the time, with any receiver or EQ program, but I don't.

Oh well, HT life goes on! I didn't want to beat a dead horse or just show back up to bash Audyssey, but I wanted to better describe the harsh sound I hear.

Well, as you've been following the Audyssey thread for sometime, you have some clear choices to pursue. It's unfair that a given flavor of Audyssey isn't a universal solution to a given user's room issues or speaker configuration, and can give you a sound you don't prefer and/or measures worse than having no EQ at all where it counts.That's the problem with a mass market methodology, in a low margin product category. We're not all the same. An "optimal" solution for, say, 80 people might not be optimal for 20 others, no matter how hard they try short of changing exogenous (other) elements in the HT room. That's why they invented market segmentation.

But you can pursue other option: manual parametric EQ and treatments in lieu of equalization, an AVR with XT32 if you've the money, alternative AVR-based EQ like MCACC with a standalone device to EQ the subs, ARC, etc. Personally I'd try XT32 first, all things being equal, as it's going to do the best as a "set and forget" approach to EQ due to the higher filter resolution for the subs and reallocation of lower vs. midrange/higher frequency emphasis compared to XT. Given your experience, I'd buy somewhere with a 30-day return policy and keep the box handy, so that you're comfortable with your choice. However, we can't spend your money for you - it's up to you. tongue.gif

Besides, maybe there's some lucky guy out there that wants a MultiEQ XT AVR as an improvement to a previous version of Audyssey, or that has a standalone bass EQ they would use with it. It doesn't hurt to check on the classifieds LOL..
post #67560 of 70896
Here's what Audyssey does to my 3.1 system. It does make the sound clear, but I find that it's thin and lacks warmth.

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