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"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2324

post #69691 of 70885

I have decided not to follow or to post in this thread any more for reasons that may be self-evident to regular subscribers. If there becomes apparent any requirement to update the FAQ for any reason, please PM me and I will attend to it. I will continue to receive AVS notifications of PMs by email so I will know of any such requests. Thanks to everyone who has helped me in the past - I truly appreciate it, and so do my ears when I enjoy my HT!

post #69692 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

^^ Feri: I don't agree with your conclusions that to have 'non-engineers' challenge the working of Audyssey is illegitimate. And having worked with a MiniDSP and Sherwoox Trinnov alternative recently (and spending several hours with Rur's system using Pro Trinnov), it's clear to me that at best Audyssey XT32 is a 'best effort' automated REQ solution operating under the intentions of a single developer's POV, particularly with respect to the use of DEQ and the Audyssey Reference curve. Using the Pro software IMO is a lift under the hood, but not a key to building a better engine.

Very good comment and I agree to most of it. What I don't like with Audyssey is the high level of automation and the low level of user interference. I had expected this for Pro but was disappointed. I mean OK, Audyssey wants to sell their stuff and don't want to share too many secrets.
I also thought quite a while about alternatives and different ways to do REQ but I have to say, compared with other solutions, which are most times much more expensive Audyssey gives good results for a fair amount of money - in my opinion.
I am bit jealous, that you can play with Pro Trinnov. biggrin.gif Trinnov sounds interesting to me, however as an external 8 channel box much too expensive for me.

For me, Audyssey Pro is a good choice, I can live with quite good. Even it is not perfect but already quite good in XT32 version.

Just my 2 cents...
post #69693 of 70885
I'm getting a Denon AVR-X1000 (with Audyssey MultEQ XT).
I know this is a vague question, but would you anticipate the room correction to have a big difference on our in-ceiling speakers. I know that audio setup is far from ideal, but it's what we have.

Do you think it could help?
Thanks!
post #69694 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by zachyahoo View Post

I'm getting a Denon AVR-X1000 (with Audyssey MultEQ XT).
I know this is a vague question, but would you anticipate the room correction to have a big difference on our in-ceiling speakers. I know that audio setup is far from ideal, but it's what we have.

Do you think it could help?
Thanks!

Definitely. Audyssey will first set distances and channel level trims for each speaker in your system with mic at the MLP (Main Listening Position) and then do an equalization of the frequency response of each speaker + sub(s) relative to a multi-seater configuration. Go for it, you're gonna like it. smile.gif
post #69695 of 70885
Now maybe Chris will come back among others.
post #69696 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

Now maybe Chris will come back among others.

Why not ask Chris? OK, I did.

At FB:

"Hi Chris, here's the Q of the week. Any way for you to come back to AVSForum Audyssey thread? Just for a while till things can settle down. So many misunderstandings and misinterpretations of the technology are being spread out and prevailing over there since you had to move out that may get in the way of your bona fide efforts to sell the product. Hope its not too much to ask. Cheers, Feri"

Let's see.
post #69697 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganymed4 View Post

Very good comment and I agree to most of it. What I don't like with Audyssey is the high level of automation and the low level of user interference. I had expected this for Pro but was disappointed. I mean OK, Audyssey wants to sell their stuff and don't want to share too many secrets.
I also thought quite a while about alternatives and different ways to do REQ but I have to say, compared with other solutions, which are most times much more expensive Audyssey gives good results for a fair amount of money - in my opinion.
I am bit jealous, that you can play with Pro Trinnov. biggrin.gif Trinnov sounds interesting to me, however as an external 8 channel box much too expensive for me.

For me, Audyssey Pro is a good choice, I can live with quite good. Even it is not perfect but already quite good in XT32 version.

Just my 2 cents...
FYI along with XT32 and Pro, I have the now extinct Sherwood R-972's rudimentary DSP version of Trinnov and a MiniDSP 10x10 with 8-channel analog I/O, not Pro Trinnov. However I got to spend several hours with Sanjay, a friend of his (AVS user Rur), and Curt Hoyt of Trinnov on my trip to LA this week, exploring a pro Trinnov MC-8 install in Rur's dedicated two-channel+sub(s) music room. Always good to put names with faces LOL. smile.gif

FWIW it's too expensive for me right now too, but it has an obscene amount of filter, phase, active crossover, and parameter adjustment that we Audyssey/AVR users could only dream about, even aside from the truly unique feature of Remapping. I would go so far as to say the functionality with control over EQ renders the whole issue of MultiEQ versions to be trivial and moot in perspective (the why is well outside of the scope of this thread). But it's a one per centers answer at $13K for an 8 channel version, and an investment in a component that provides EQ at a level of rigor associated with broadcast studios.

That puts it on the dark side of the moon for almost everyone here unless you have an R-972 sitting around somewhere, and want to replicate a portion of the pro functionality with multiple components and some trial and error, plus plenty of time on your hands.

So let's live in the mainstream real world here...XT32 and Pro combined are still the best mainstream choice most non-obsessives have. And if separates or a second AVR as a dedicated amp is an option for you, a MiniDSP or another PEQ box can only make a single position, independently accessed with REW, seat better. All caveats from others with strong opinions about the invalidity of anything outside of spatially averaged, multiple position REQ duly noted.
Edited by sdrucker - 2/3/14 at 7:33am
post #69698 of 70885
Wow, I leave for 8hrs to watch a blowout, and all hell breaks loose .............. eek.gif
post #69699 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDon View Post

Bickering removed. Off topic posts removed. And some posts that should have been PMs removed.

Stick to the topic and stop addressing each other.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

Wow, I leave for 8hrs to watch a blowout, and all hell breaks loose .............. eek.gif

 

and 9 hours later, there hasn't been a single new posting.. That I believe is very seldom in this thread.

 

Now what happened here, could a moderator please elaborate on the happenings that required deletion of postings and made one guy leave?

post #69700 of 70885
I think I was abundantly clear.

As was DBone. He logged off to watch the Super Bowl.
post #69701 of 70885
Originally Posted by DrDon View Post

Bickering removed. Off topic posts removed. And some posts that should have been PMs removed.

Stick to the topic and stop addressing each other.



Thank you!

Would you like some suggestions for other topics to work your magic on? eek.gif
post #69702 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Why not ask Chris? OK, I did.

At FB:

"Hi Chris, here's the Q of the week. Any way for you to come back to AVSForum Audyssey thread? Just for a while till things can settle down. So many misunderstandings and misinterpretations of the technology are being spread out and prevailing over there since you had to move out that may get in the way of your bona fide efforts to sell the product. Hope its not too much to ask. Cheers, Feri"

Let's see.

Here's reply:

Chris Kyriakakis: Sorry Feri, it's just not possible. The time I spent there was just overwhelming and I can no longer do it.
post #69703 of 70885
Of course he can't...I have to think this thread is pretty low on his list of priorities especially since Audyssey has their own venues for answering questions.
post #69704 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Here's reply:

Chris Kyriakakis: Sorry Feri, it's just not possible. The time I spent there was just overwhelming and I can no longer do it.

I'm not surprised. Like it or not, we're on our own here on AVS, just like the folks on other HT forums that ask about Audyssey or AVR with various versions of it. At least he gave you an answer.

YMMV about the content, but as a how-to guide, the established Audyssey FAQs and the advice/opinion of experienced members are sufficient for a mature product no longer apparently under current development for the HT market. For better or worse, the flavors of XT are what they are. And he does answer questions on FB's Audyssey Tech.
post #69705 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

I'm not surprised. Like it or not, we're on our own here on AVS, just like the folks on other HT forums that ask about Audyssey or AVR with various versions of it. At least he gave you an answer.

Well...I am not sure of the tone of this statement but I for one don't feel "on my own" and at least take some pride that the AVSForum and thread is actually where the dialog on this product started. anywhere. In fact, the product comes ALIVE on these pages. biggrin.gif
post #69706 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post

Well...I am not sure of the tone of this statement but I for one don't feel "on my own" and at least take some pride that the AVSForum and thread is actually where the dialog on this product started. anywhere. In fact, the product comes ALIVE on these pages. biggrin.gif

On our own compared to other products that have threads on AVS (or elsewhere), where you might have a developer or a rep from the company posting occasionally to provide some guidance. You'll see that occasionally on the REW thread, Darbee, Lumagen etc. as well as on a few of the products on the $20K+ sub-forum. Not particularly for more mass marketed mainstream products, but one notable exception IMO being the DefTech speaker threads, as well as the Golden Ear speaker one as of a few years ago.

Not that I disagree with you about the "come alive" part, in the history of the thread. FWIW it's always a great read (IMO) to go back and read some old posts on basic topics where Chris K. did answer as AVS user audyssey. So he may be "gone" but his contributions are certainly not forgotten.
Edited by sdrucker - 2/3/14 at 2:17pm
post #69707 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjazdk View Post



and 9 hours later, there hasn't been a single new posting.. That I believe is very seldom in this thread.

Now what happened here, could a moderator please elaborate on the happenings that required deletion of postings and made one guy leave?

I know for a fact it's going to be at least two guys leaving, if not more is my guess, but I am not going into details. It is truly pathetic that a member who has given so much time and effort to this forum and more specifically this thread is the one who eventually has to tap out, and all because he chose to challenge the idea that Audyssey is a flawless solution. Well guess, what, it isn't flawless, and in fact the further you get away from the xt32 version, the less capable it is. You don't like it, get over it, its plain and simple. Is Audyssey an improvement over no Audyssey is up to the end user. IMO for music, it is not better, even with xt32, but with movies, in most cases it is. I worked my way up from one processor to the next hoping that the next iteration of Audyssey would make me happier with music, and it didn't happen. Anyways, not sure how anyone could poke any holes in the value of Keith's contributions to this thread, he essentially built the best resource now available for us enthusiasts. We all know Chris isn't the best for that matter.

It's even better that the developer of such systems won't even nod his head our way? If he isn't working on new algorithms for a new version of Audyssey, then what is he doing? Chris manages to have a decent amount of time playing on the Facebook responding to inquiries.

I too will allow the "Engineers" to continue with their expertise, flawed or not, and part ways. I got the gist my expertise was worthless not being one so.... I hope my contributions have managed to help others along the way, and you may PM me as well if you dare to "Think outside the box." Truly disappointed at what transpired here, and I for one don't have time for it. Ya'll have fun....Beast out (too).
post #69708 of 70885
I think everyone needs to take a few days off doing something they love, take a deep breath, pull their big boy / girl pants up and get back in the saddle. This thread has helped me in everything audio related, not just Audyssey. I expect to see everyone back in a few days, and this thread will keep meandering along like the glacier it is........... Sometimes frustrating, sometimes exasperating, sometimes funny and most times informative.
post #69709 of 70885

Ok, to try and get this thread back on track....

 

If I am LIMITED to MultiXT vs 32XT - and I have 4 subs that I want/need to try and adjust - what is my best option that will integrate nicely with my Audyssey that I already have and love (for the most part).

 

This is a graph of the nasty sub dip I can't seem to tame.  (see my signature for more details)

 

For example is THIS what I need to try and help or a MINI DSP (some brand, etc)  http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0051TZBO0/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2ON7PO0OX6HN9&coliid=I3IP8YIEI145QM

 

Finally if I am in the wrong thread just let me know - perhaps I should start a clean new one JUST for this answer ?  Guidance appreciated.

 


Edited by toofast68 - 2/3/14 at 2:08pm
post #69710 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

I think everyone needs to take a few days off doing something they love, take a deep breath, pull their big boy / girl pants up and get back in the saddle. This thread has helped me in everything audio related, not just Audyssey. I expect to see everyone back in a few days, and this thread will keep meandering along like the glacier it is........... Sometimes frustrating, sometimes exasperating, sometimes funny and most times informative.

I disagree. For me this thread is largely a legacy resource, but there's little new left to say about Audyssey except to challenge the product as it stands and identifying its shortcomings, and the divide between the experimenters that have grown beyond the product(s) Audyssey is and the Engineers believing what they hear, not what is measurable, is all that matters can't be bridged.

Without splitting the thread or a separate place to discuss either, the thread IMO needs to be one or the other. If there's no room for quantifying Audyssey's limits without ad hominem attacks, let the Engineers be the caretakers for whatever newbies come here for basic setup and functionality. The rest of us can go somewhere else, or read Keith's FAQ and decide for themselves, and follow if they reach that point where as good as Audyssey XT32 is, they may feel they need to add technology to augment the still very good results that Audyssey provides. I personally think that the outcome was unfortunate, but even if the messenger showed less than perfect judgment, the message wasn't flawed.

I suggest that those so inclined to provide scientifically oriented Audyssey guidance link Keith's guides to our signatures too if they continue here. I know I will.
Edited by sdrucker - 2/3/14 at 3:10pm
post #69711 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I have decided not to follow or to post in this thread any more for reasons that may be self-evident to regular subscribers. If there becomes apparent any requirement to update the FAQ for any reason, please PM me and I will attend to it. I will continue to receive AVS notifications of PMs by email so I will know of any such requests. Thanks to everyone who has helped me in the past - I truly appreciate it, and so do my ears when I enjoy my HT!
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

I know for a fact it's going to be at least two guys leaving, if not more is my guess, but I am not going into details. It is truly pathetic that a member who has given so much time and effort to this forum and more specifically this thread is the one who eventually has to tap out, and all because he chose to challenge the idea that Audyssey is a flawless solution. Well guess, what, it isn't flawless, and in fact the further you get away from the xt32 version, the less capable it is. You don't like it, get over it, its plain and simple. Is Audyssey an improvement over no Audyssey is up to the end user. IMO for music, it is not better, even with xt32, but with movies, in most cases it is. I worked my way up from one processor to the next hoping that the next iteration of Audyssey would make me happier with music, and it didn't happen. Anyways, not sure how anyone could poke any holes in the value of Keith's contributions to this thread, he essentially built the best resource now available for us enthusiasts. We all know Chris isn't the best for that matter.

It's even better that the developer of such systems won't even nod his head our way? If he isn't working on new algorithms for a new version of Audyssey, then what is he doing? Chris manages to have a decent amount of time playing on the Facebook responding to inquiries.

I too will allow the "Engineers" to continue with their expertise, flawed or not, and part ways. I got the gist my expertise was worthless not being one so.... I hope my contributions have managed to help others along the way, and you may PM me as well if you dare to "Think outside the box." Truly disappointed at what transpired here, and I for one don't have time for it. Ya'll have fun....Beast out (too).
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

I think everyone needs to take a few days off doing something they love, take a deep breath, pull their big boy / girl pants up and get back in the saddle. This thread has helped me in everything audio related, not just Audyssey. I expect to see everyone back in a few days, and this thread will keep meandering along like the glacier it is........... Sometimes frustrating, sometimes exasperating, sometimes funny and most times informative.

Exactly! Was just about to write the same... take some deep breaths and do something else, like watch a couple of your favourite
movies (with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 enabled) for a few days or a week and think it over.

And just a hint: there is a nifty feature to block/ignore posters.... trust me, it works!
post #69712 of 70885
To be fair I saw the whole discussion but still must have missed the part where the other party insisted on -
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

the idea that Audyssey is a flawless solution. .
post #69713 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

^^ I disagree. For me this thread is largely a legacy resource, but there's little left to say about Audyssey except to challenge the product as it stands and identifying its shortcomings, and the divide between the experimenters that have grown beyond the product(s) Audyssey is and the Engineers believing what they hear is all that matters can't be bridged.

Without splitting the thread or a separate place to discuss either, the thread IMO needs to be one or the other. if there's no room for quantifying Audyssey's limits without ad hominem attacks, let the Engineers be the caretakers for whatever newbies come here for basic setup and functionality. The rest of us can go somewhere else, or read Keith's FAQ and decide for themselves, and follow if they reach that point.
I believe you have to know any shortcomings of a product in order to avoid the pitfalls and use it to it's fully potential.
I haven't been following the last discussions so closely so I don't follow this talk about "Engineers", but there are no Audyssey "Engineers" posting here anymore,it was years ago when Chris opted out.
post #69714 of 70885
as a newbie to audyssey, i VERY MUCH appreciate the info in this thread. agree that maybe it isn't what we might want to hear, but at least i know where my upgrade path should follow. i'm really glad for those who shared their knowledge of what the diff flavors of audy does and doesn't do. i think its important and hope you will continue to educate us.

i moved my coffee table out of my room, re ran audy XT, and surprised the difference it made. my center channel is no longer increased by +7dBs! all seems a little more clear as well.

even tho i'm using audy XT, i'm sitting here in complete and utter bliss as i listen to dire straits brothers in arms SACD. simply incredible. even with flaws i'm pleased with the results.
post #69715 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljmart View Post

as a newbie to audyssey, i VERY MUCH appreciate the info in this thread. agree that maybe it isn't what we might want to hear, but at least i know where my upgrade path should follow. i'm really glad for those who shared their knowledge of what the diff flavors of audy does and doesn't do. i think its important and hope you will continue to educate us.

i moved my coffee table out of my room, re ran audy XT, and surprised the difference it made. my center channel is no longer increased by +7dBs! all seems a little more clear as well.

even tho i'm using audy XT, i'm sitting here in complete and utter bliss as i listen to dire straits brothers in arms SACD. simply incredible. even with flaws i'm pleased with the results.

Good to hear your satisfaction. BTW, how was your center speaker placed relative to the coffee table? Was it in a cabinet under your display close to the floor? Maybe direct sound was blocked by the coffee table. How are you getting by now without a coffee table for your coffee? cool.gif
post #69716 of 70885
^thanks! yes its under tv in a cabinet (shelf is 21" up from floor) and was lower than my 23" tall c. table. so sounds must have been bouncing under it then to the floor eek.gif my mains previously were at -7, center +7... now -4, and center 0. really amazed at what just a table in the way makes such a drastic difference.

my end tables work! now if i could just get used to reaching to the side instead!!
post #69717 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by scipper77 View Post

I feel responsible for this whole mess. I made some comments about how members here attack lesser forms of audyssey and how I felt it intimidated novices such as myself from asking there questions.

If I am reading the situation correctly this stirred a pot that was appearantly ready to boil over before my comments. I honestly praised kbarnes and others for there help and conceded that my intimidation was perceived and not real.

I hope that nobody holds me at fault for any of what happened.

Mods, I apologize for another off topic post here. I just wanted to get that off of my chest. I understand if you immediately delete this post to prevent more fireworks from popping up.

Personally, I am sorry that kbarnes left this thread. My feeling was, that he was very enthusiastic about this thread and added value to it. May be sometime over enthusiastic but OK for me.

My personal opinion about XT vs. XT32: XT32 is newer and the new product, the latest product of Audyssey. Some major changes were made and as always, the newer 'should' be the better product. Makes perfect sense for me. XT had some problems but I wouldn't say it was flawed. I don't know how old it is and when it was introduced first, however, XT32 is better than XT.
This doesn't mean to me that you can't achieve good results, using XT. I did this, using a Marantz AV7005 with Pro license. The result was good and the friend, I did this measurement, is using it today, because of the increased performance in the bass. How surprising is this?

When I bought my Denon AVP-A1, it also 'only' had XT. I measured it and found the sound very good. I was surprised about how good the sound was, that I asked Chris about different implementations for Onkyo - had the PR-SC5509 before, with XT32 - and the Denon AVP-A1 implementation, because it was so good and different to the 5509. He wrote me, that there is no difference in the code but in the hardware used.
OK.

Then I made the upgrade of the AVP-A1 to XT32 and since then, you can't get the smile out of my face. wink.gif

I experienced much greater difference in Audyssey from the Onkyo PR-SC5507 to the 5509 than from the Denon upgrade of the AVP-A1. I don't have a real explanation for this but this is what I experienced.

Just my 2 cents...
post #69718 of 70885
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

True. However, after a little more thought, I'm scaling back on the Audyssey threads and focusing on other areas, now that this one is going to be getting more settled down and routine (LOL). It's been a fun ride but my current interests are making the most out of my Sherwood based Trinnov and MiniDSP, maybe eventually migrating to other choices if funds permit. Frankly, after testing it out and hearing an MC-8 in action there's nothing of interest for me here except to maybe help others where I can, and maybe run a few new Audyssey cals if I change my setup. I'll be here but more occasionally lurking.

See you on FB....

Can you please tell me where you are posting your experiences? I would be very interested to read about it. Thank you!

SORRY! I should have PMed this, it adds no value at all to the thread. Please accept my apologies. Thank you.
Edited by Ganymed4 - 2/4/14 at 2:45pm
post #69719 of 70885
So I just got a new sub and ran into a confusing Audyssey result (well, at least to me). I replaced a Polk PSW111 with a much more powerful SVS PB-1000. I turned the LPF to LFE and turned the volume know to 12 o'clock. When I ran Audyssey the sub was almost inaudible, and the result was +10 (maxed out) on my Denon receiver. Now, given this thing is MUCH more powerful than my last sub, this shouldn't be happening correct? My last sub I actually had the sub volume less than 12 o'clock and was at -2.5 on my receiver. Any input greatly appreciated!
post #69720 of 70885
Volume control position means nothing by itself. Turn it up and re run.

Just as an example if your old sub had a linear volume control it was a mere 3 dB below its loudest possible setting at 12. If the new sub has a log volume control it is at half spl sound level in the same position. Assuming no other gain structure differences the new sub would be at one tenth of the power if the old one at 12 oclock. Gives you much easier control of lower levels when the first half of volume is not all below one tenth on the volume knob's range. In the end, though all you need to do is find a place where the calibration works right.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › "Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779)