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"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2336

post #70051 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Oakley View Post

The sub sounds very good after turning it up about 4db or so. But we still have the pesky -12db Audyssey result haunting me. Foolishly I didn't check the sub's volume setting prior to running the calibration but I can't imagine it being set much over 1/2. Also, when Audyssey ran the sub level was not high at all. So, when I'm feeling better (hurt my back yesterday) and when I have a window of time that the house will be quiet, I'll re-run and report back.

I appreciate everyone's input....Scottt

ps: I'm honestly not sure where "reference level" is on the loudness scale. I don't use the "-db scale" on the volume knob-I use the more intuitive numbering. Which designation is used when we talk of MV and reference volume on here???

UPDATE: I finally dug the sub manual and remote out and determined that the sub's volume was set at 55 (out of 100). This would adhere to the Setup Guide's instruction for sub setup.
post #70052 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by robc1976 View Post

Hey guys, been a bit since I posted here. I have been building new theater. I got the room all setup and treated and ran Audyssey and my center channel level is set to -12 (maxed out). I can't move center or seating because I just calculated all reflection points ect. I have a 9.2 system with 2X Emotiva XPA-5'S. With my external amplification I was going to use line actuators on the center (-12) and left speaker (-11.5). I was told a 6DB actuator isn't that much (doesn't go down 6DB). I have no recursive with these at all since this only happened with new room (DD drywall, GG, MLV walls).

Will this hurt sound quality? That is most important to me.

I was going to get these:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0006N41AG/ref=redir_mdp_mobile

Here is room




Here are trims:



I have been griping about these issues for some time. I suggest -10db rca or xlr pad attenuators from parts express... Thats what i do.
post #70053 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post

I have been griping about these issues for some time. I suggest -10db rca or xlr pad attenuators from parts express... Thats what i do.
I ordered the 6db and went to change order to 12db and it shipped already...they are quick! Hope the 6db will do.
post #70054 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

If you are going to remove the attenuators after calibration there is no need for then in the first place. Simply level match with an SPL meter after running audyssey at a high enough level that the trims are in range.

The point of using the attenuators would be to allow you to calibrate such that the trims fall into range and then you DON'T have to deal with mentally adjusting for the new effective reference level.

Does Audyssey normally do a better job at setting levels than we could do using an SPL meter?

Wouldn't setting levels by hand (SPL meter) require a test disk, since -- I think -- the test noise in most AVRs/ pre-pros bypasses Audyssey, therefore a big room peak or dip might cause us to set the levels incorrectly?
post #70055 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Oakley View Post

UPDATE: I finally dug the sub manual and remote out and determined that the sub's volume was set at 55 (out of 100). This would adhere to the Setup Guide's instruction for sub setup.

The Setup Guide for the sub, or the AVR, or the Audyssey section of the AVR?

That particular sub may still need to be turned down (on the sub's own level control, not on the AVR) to allow Audyssey to set it correctly, i.e., turned down until the automatic calibration doesn't set it at -12.

A sub at the correct level will sound soft with Audyssey's pings because of the ear's lower sensitivity to deep bass sounds when played at the moderate loudness level of Audyssey's pings. If you play your movies or music loud, or if you use DEQ for playing them, the bass should seem to be at the correct level, i.e. more or less "flat." If you want more bass, turn up the sub at the AVR after running Audyssey.
Edited by garygarrison - 2/26/14 at 6:48pm
post #70056 of 70896
Must say with new theater the Audyssey flat curve seems to have better sound quality than the Audyssey movie curve. My last room was treated but not as heavily as this one. Flat curve seems to have more detail but for some reason slightly lower bass? Maybe this is just me? Anyone else with treated room notice this?
post #70057 of 70896
There is no difference in the bass region of the two target curves.
post #70058 of 70896
FYI - as an update to the previous DEQ RLO discussion. Call off the wolves, false alarm! Chris K checked further after seeing some of the measurements Keith provided, and it turns out the original understanding is correct and DEQ RLO changes actually DO change where reference level is for DEQ compensation on the MV scale.

So, um.... As you were! tongue.gif
post #70059 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

There is no difference in the bass region of the two target curves.
awesome, it was driving me nuts.
post #70060 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

FYI - as an update to the previous DEQ RLO discussion. Call off the wolves, false alarm! Chris K checked further after seeing some of the measurements Keith provided, and it turns out the original understanding is correct and DEQ RLO changes actually DO change where reference level is for DEQ compensation on the MV scale.

So, um.... As you were! tongue.gif
This was investigated some time ago by Markus who measured the pre sub out for -80dB to +10dB master volume with and without 10dB Reference Level Offset.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-51779/49560#post_21569177
Quote:
Basically Dynamic EQ acts at -20dB with Reference Level Offset at 10 like it would at -10dB without Reference Level Offset.
So when Reference Level Offset is set then Dynamic EQ does "something" even when the Master Volume control is at 0.
post #70061 of 70896
It's a perceived sound balance issue. With rolled off highs you need less bass for proper balance. With increased highs you need more bass to compensate. I find the same thing and up the bass 2db and the sub 4db when I use the flat curve.
Quote:
Originally Posted by robc1976 View Post

Must say with new theater the Audyssey flat curve seems to have better sound quality than the Audyssey movie curve. My last room was treated but not as heavily as this one. Flat curve seems to have more detail but for some reason slightly lower bass? Maybe this is just me? Anyone else with treated room notice this?
post #70062 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by garygarrison View Post

The Setup Guide for the sub, or the AVR, or the Audyssey section of the AVR?

That particular sub may still need to be turned down (on the sub's own level control, not on the AVR) to allow Audyssey to set it correctly, i.e., turned down until the automatic calibration doesn't set it at -12.

A sub at the correct level will sound soft with Audyssey's pings because of the ear's lower sensitivity to deep bass sounds when played at the moderate loudness level of Audyssey's pings. If you play your movies or music loud, or if you use DEQ for playing them, the bass should seem to be at the correct level, i.e. more or less "flat." If you want more bass, turn up the sub at the AVR after running Audyssey.

Thanks for the assist...the sub was turned to half its volume using the sub's volume adjustment. I wouldn't say Audyssey's sub pings sounded soft at all; they didn't sound "loud" either. They were at about the save relative (subjective) level as the rest of the speakers during calibration.

But I will re-run and post back here.
post #70063 of 70896

FAQ UPDATE!

 

Following Chris Kyriakakis's confirmation that our original understanding of how Dynamic EQ Reference Level Offset works was correct, I have reinstated the original FAQ answer. I have added a link in the answer to the Technical Addendum (see below).

 

g)3.   What is Reference Level Offset in Dynamic EQ?

 

I have also added the graphs showing the effect of RLO to the FAQ Technical Addendum for those who wish to see more in-depth information.

 

a)3. Graphs showing the effect of Dynamic EQ Reference Level Offset at various settings of Master Volume and RLO.

post #70064 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

FAQ UPDATE!

Following Chris Kyriakakis's confirmation that our original understanding of how Dynamic EQ Reference Level Offset works was correct, I have reinstated the original FAQ answer. I have added a link in the answer to the Technical Addendum (see below).

g)3.   What is Reference Level Offset in Dynamic EQ?

I have also added the graphs showing the effect of RLO to the FAQ Technical Addendum for those who wish to see more in-depth information.

a)3. Graphs showing the effect of Dynamic EQ Reference Level Offset at various settings of Master Volume and RLO.

Great stuff smile.gif
post #70065 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickardl View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

FYI - as an update to the previous DEQ RLO discussion. Call off the wolves, false alarm! Chris K checked further after seeing some of the measurements Keith provided, and it turns out the original understanding is correct and DEQ RLO changes actually DO change where reference level is for DEQ compensation on the MV scale.

So, um.... As you were! tongue.gif
This was investigated some time ago by Markus who measured the pre sub out for -80dB to +10dB master volume with and without 10dB Reference Level Offset.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-51779/49560#post_21569177
Quote:
Basically Dynamic EQ acts at -20dB with Reference Level Offset at 10 like it would at -10dB without Reference Level Offset.
So when Reference Level Offset is set then Dynamic EQ does "something" even when the Master Volume control is at 0.

I know. Although I couldn't find the specific link. Which is why I was so shocked when Chris said it didn't work like we have assumed it works for many years. Thankfully Keith was able to quickly reproduce the needed data and put it to bed.
post #70066 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

FAQ UPDATE!

Following Chris Kyriakakis's confirmation that our original understanding of how Dynamic EQ Reference Level Offset works was correct, I have reinstated the original FAQ answer. I have added a link in the answer to the Technical Addendum (see below).

g)3.   What is Reference Level Offset in Dynamic EQ?

I have also added the graphs showing the effect of RLO to the FAQ Technical Addendum for those who wish to see more in-depth information.

a)3. Graphs showing the effect of Dynamic EQ Reference Level Offset at various settings of Master Volume and RLO.
glad we have people like you constantly giving us great info like this.wink.gif
post #70067 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post

It's a perceived sound balance issue. With rolled off highs you need less bass for proper balance. With increased highs you need more bass to compensate. I find the same thing and up the bass 2db and the sub 4db when I use the flat curve.
post #70068 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post

It's a perceived sound balance issue. With rolled off highs you need less bass for proper balance. With increased highs you need more bass to compensate. I find the same thing and up the bass 2db and the sub 4db when I use the flat curve.
exactly what I was hearing, I turned up bass 2DB
Edited by robc1976 - 2/27/14 at 11:17am
post #70069 of 70896
Have a noob question lol! I have never used attenuators so does the attenuator go into 4311ci then RCA cable then Emotiva amp OR does it go 4311ci...RCA cable....attenuator....Emotiva amp? I can't see why it would matter but thought I would get clarification.
post #70070 of 70896
Doesn't matter, I just usually have mine coming straight off the back of the amp.
post #70071 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Doesn't matter, I just usually have mine coming straight off the back of the amp.
do just plug into the Emotiva then correct?
post #70072 of 70896
That would be fine
post #70073 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

That would be fine
appreciate the info!

Thanks
post #70074 of 70896
Of course, in either case you've got this long protrusion hanging off the back-panel connector, so you have to be careful not to bump the attenuator and damage the back-panel. A safer way to do it would be to put it inline between two cables:

[receiver] --- RCA cable -- [attenuator} -- RCA extension cable -- [amp]

An extension cable has a female connector at one end and a male connector at the other.
post #70075 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Of course, in either case you've got this long protrusion hanging off the back-panel connector, so you have to be careful not to bump the attenuator and damage the back-panel. A safer way to do it would be to put it inline between two cables:

[receiver] --- RCA cable -- [attenuator} -- RCA extension cable -- [amp]

An extension cable has a female connector at one end and a male connector at the other.
very good point
post #70076 of 70896
Im using a denon avr e300 and im having a problem with audyssey, unheard of I know... it seems to be screwing up my low frequency response, almost like its cutting out frquencies or rolling them off very dramatically. I have been using the scene from pacific rim where the robot basically steps over the camera with 3 huge rumbles and with audyssey off the bass sounds amazing with a nice low rumble and vibration. With audyssey on the low bass seems to be replaced with a weird hollow sou ding/ humming bass instead and I cant seem to get around this. I jave ran audyssey(6 position) many times with the same results. Any idea whats going on or suggestions as to what I need to do?
post #70077 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by abajetta2 View Post

Im using a denon avr e300 and im having a problem with audyssey, unheard of I know... it seems to be screwing up my low frequency response, almost like its cutting out frquencies or rolling them off very dramatically. I have been using the scene from pacific rim where the robot basically steps over the camera with 3 huge rumbles and with audyssey off the bass sounds amazing with a nice low rumble and vibration. With audyssey on the low bass seems to be replaced with a weird hollow sou ding/ humming bass instead and I cant seem to get around this. I jave ran audyssey(6 position) many times with the same results. Any idea whats going on or suggestions as to what I need to do?

When selecting Audyssey - Do you have Dynamic EQ engaged and Dynamic Volume off? If not, try those settings and see if your Bass response improves.
post #70078 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

FAQ UPDATE!

Following Chris Kyriakakis's confirmation that our original understanding of how Dynamic EQ Reference Level Offset works was correct, I have reinstated the original FAQ answer. I have added a link in the answer to the Technical Addendum (see below).

g)3.   What is Reference Level Offset in Dynamic EQ?

I have also added the graphs showing the effect of RLO to the FAQ Technical Addendum for those who wish to see more in-depth information.

a)3. Graphs showing the effect of Dynamic EQ Reference Level Offset at various settings of Master Volume and RLO.
Hey kbarnes701! - I really like the way that you're always on top of these updates, corrections, and improvements to the base Audyssey FAQ - MUCH appreciated! smile.gif
post #70079 of 70896
Well I am a Berliner in the attenuators, turned center from -12 to (-7.0) and left front from -10.5 to (-3.5)
post #70080 of 70896
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggsantafe View Post

When selecting Audyssey - Do you have Dynamic EQ engaged and Dynamic Volume off? If not, try those settings and see if your Bass response improves.
It was set to on with dynamic volume on medium. I tried it with dynamic volume off and it didnt make a difference. Maybe what im hearing with audyssey off isnt actually what that paticular part in the movie is supposed to sound like and audyssey is correcring the sound. Thats my only guess since when I play actual low bass tones it sounds fine..
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