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Philips - no DVD recorders on web site

post #1 of 11
1/28/07 at 10:54am
Thread Starter 
I was checking the Philips web site and it looks like there are no DVD recorders listed under Home Entertainment on the site. Also there are no new DVD recorder product announcements listed for 2007.

Is Philips done with DVD recorders?
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post #2 of 11
1/28/07 at 12:58pm
nextoo, you seem to be correct. Maybe we badgered them out of the DVD Recorder business. Perhaps that explains their unwillingness to discuss any further Firmare Upgrades.

It's a shame, with a few tweaks the DVDR3455/37 could have easily become the best DVDR Value on the market.
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post #3 of 11
1/28/07 at 1:40pm
Maybe they will release all the information necessary to allow some old fashion hacking.
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post #4 of 11
1/28/07 at 2:21pm
I would love to learn how to do Firmware hacks..... Where would one begin this type of education?
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post #5 of 11
1/28/07 at 2:55pm
My understanding of how it works is:

- the firmware is binary, executable program code.
- it needs to be reverse-engineered, which primarily means "disassembled", changed from binary into so-called assembly-language for the processor it runs on (that would have to be identified to enable disassembly).
- once you have assembly language code, you can try to make sense of it, like where it detects Copy Protection and refuses to continue the recording, or where it detects the Region Code and refuses to continue the playback.
- the hacks would be to "fix" those key points in the code so that they "do it anyway", for example by changing the result of evaluating a test condition so it is always "good" (true or false as the case may be).
- turn the hacked code back into binary executable program code. This might be by "assembling" (this is like compilation) the modified assembly language code again, or more likely it is just done by poking values into the existing binary code, once you know what and where to poke new values.
- install the hacked firmware and hope you didn't just shoot yourself in the foot.
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post #6 of 11
1/28/07 at 4:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobkart View Post

My understanding of how it works is:

- the firmware is binary, executable program code.
- it needs to be reverse-engineered, which primarily means "disassembled", changed from binary into so-called assembly-language for the processor it runs on (that would have to be identified to enable disassembly).
- once you have assembly language code, you can try to make sense of it, like where it detects Copy Protection and refuses to continue the recording, or where it detects the Region Code and refuses to continue the playback.
- the hacks would be to "fix" those key points in the code so that they "do it anyway", for example by changing the result of evaluating a test condition so it is always "good" (true or false as the case may be).
- turn the hacked code back into binary executable program code. This might be by "assembling" (this is like compilation) the modified assembly language code again, or more likely it is just done by poking values into the existing binary code, once you know what and where to poke new values.
- install the hacked firmware and hope you didn't just shoot yourself in the foot.

Very few people go to this length for a hack. Many hacks are done by a simple sequence with the remote. Many DVDrs can have their region restriction removed this way. Other hacks include a simple hardware change inside the unit.

BTW, generally you can't reverse engineer compiled firmware. You'd have to have the original underlying raw code to start, then hack it and compile it into new firmware.

I have a feeling Phillips is just delaying their digital tuner units but won't abandon the market altogether.
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post #7 of 11
1/28/07 at 4:36pm
Thank you, guys. Biker, I hope Philips isn't done with DVDR, because they got "close" with this one. Maybe they will get it right in the next generation.
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post #8 of 11
1/28/07 at 4:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by biker19 View Post

Very few people go to this length for a hack. Many hacks are done by a simple sequence with the remote. Many DVDrs can have their region restriction removed this way. Other hacks include a simple hardware change inside the unit.

Agreed.

FOS specifically asked about Firmware hacking though. So my answer only addressed that:
Quote:
Originally Posted by FullOnShred View Post

I would love to learn how to do Firmware hacks..... Where would one begin this type of education?

Quote:
Originally Posted by biker19 View Post

BTW, generally you can't reverse engineer compiled firmware. You'd have to have the original underlying raw code to start, then hack it and compile it into new firmware.

Yeah I wasn't sure how much was done the hard way. Starting with the source code simplifies things greatly. But it still leaves the problem of obtaining the source code.
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post #9 of 11
1/28/07 at 5:10pm
At the beginning Philips did more advertising than anyone for standalone DVD recorders. The problem was the recorders were very expensive and pretty lousy. What was to be a replacement for the VCR became something only the technically savvy could want. And the technically savvy now won't buy TV gear that isn't HDTV capable. Standalone DVD recorders are reaching the end of their new product life cycle. My guess is it never became profitable for any of the companies making these curious machines.
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post #10 of 11
1/28/07 at 7:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HealeyGuy View Post

What was to be a replacement for the VCR became something only the technically savvy could want. And the technically savvy now won't buy TV gear that isn't HDTV capable. Standalone DVD recorders are reaching the end of their new product life cycle. My guess is it never became profitable for any of the companies making these curious machines.

You know, if one thinks about it a little you may be entirely correct. VCRs lived on because people needed to buy one to play pre-recorded tapes. No such need there for a DVD recorder because stand-alone players are much cheaper and the norm. And, we all know recorders make poor players because they don't have all the features of even a sub-$100 player. A DVDR is an end unto itself and the market may not be there for a limited VCR replacement.

I'm waiting for them to take the hint and provide these things with the feature set needed to be a decent player.
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post #11 of 11
1/28/07 at 8:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by biker19 View Post

BTW, generally you can't reverse engineer compiled firmware. You'd have to have the original underlying raw code to start, then hack it and compile it into new firmware.

Reverse engineering of software is almost always performed on compiled code.

If you have the 'original', that's just the source, and there isn't much to reverse engineer if you have the source.
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