From Component to HDMI...my thoughts

I feel the same way as you do, I run component from my hd motorolla set top box to my 1080p tv set. I notice no visual difference between hdmi and component.

Few people can see the difference.
Those that can see it say the difference is very very minimal.

The visible difference is minimal or nonexistent since you are running the same resolution via component or HDMI. The difference in composite to component is the greater resolution. The advantage of HDMI is that it is a digital connection and is less susceptible to interference and may produce a "cleaner" picture on longer cable lengths than an analog connection such as component.

At standard HDTV resolutions (requiring a 75MHz pixel clock), difference in the resolution & clarity may be harder to see since the analog to digital conversion electronics (ADCs) these days are very good. However, a few points I'd like to make about differences in the experience:

- at 1080p resolution and/or deep color, these video clock rates get much higher, and the analog to digital conversion electronics in the TV are more likely to show softness in the image. 1080p/8bit runs at 150MHz, while 1080p/12bit runs at 225MHz. Today, I still see UXGA (1600x1200) LCD monitors that still look fuzzy over the analog.
- consistency of video performance: With analog, the sharpness of the pixel may be good for standard HDTV resolutions, but the rendering of the color and brightness value of each pixel may vary depending on a number of things such as the cable quality, and quality of the DAC & ADC. With digital, it will be the same no matter whose cable or HDMI electronics are used. I've seen postings where users can notice that their contrast ratio's are better with HDMI, but again, your mileage may vary if you have very good analog cabling and electronics.
- content protection: some types of content will require the usage of a digital interface with encryption, and access to that content may be limited if such content protection is not available. A digital interface can be encrypted with a much more robust fairly robust protection scheme compared to analog. Playback of standard definition DVD is an example: the DVD CCA requires that the analog outputs be limited to 480p/576p for CSS protected content, while the HDMI output can go all the way up to 1080p

Does component compress the signal from 720p source (360) or 1080p source (HD DVD) vs. HDMI cable?

Coax can handle analog or digital signals. The coax carries the raw compressed signal. The satellite or cable box decodes and decompresses it. At that point, a single coax cannot handle the expanded information at HD signal levels any more.

I would like to comment on a few of these points, as I found them very curious...

Yes, with 150MHz pixels clocks, and 10 bits transfered per clock, the bit rate on a TMDS pair is 1.5Gb, so the bandwidth of the cable will need to be above 1.5 GHz. Quite a feat for any length of cable. However in the analog domain the same amount of information can be conveyed with a bandwidth of 150-200 MHz. Using a coaxial cable such as RG6, 200 feet is acheivable. Using a twisted pair such as Cat5E, 1000 feet is achievable.

I'm kind of surprised you brought this one up. Although I realize that much of the problemswith HDMI that others have reported here have to do with HDCP, I really don't see anyone complaining about performance or compatability with analog component video.

Is content protection a benefit to the consumer? In the case of DVD CCA 480p analog limit, it's a fairly moot point since the content is 480p. All this does is force the consumer to use the scaler built into every digital display vs. the one in the DVD player they just bought.

In any case, we agree that 'your milage may vary' when comparing analog vs digital video. I just hope that we can provide a whole house digital solution in the future.

Well said on all points, Bill.

Trent

if you get a chance try to check out the difference while watching something from a projector on a 8,9,or 10 foot screen. youll notice the difference then.

Can component video carry a 1080p signal?

Say from a High definition player (blue ray or HD-dvd I don't care) to either a Pioneer 1080p FHD1 or a Sony 1080p SXRD VPL100?

Or do we need HDMI?

I've read various threads on this and remain confused because of the different responses. Is HDCP already in place? I didn't think so so I thought that you can still get 1080i and 720p at least through component analog. The question is if HDMI is necessary for 1080p or does that depend on the source and the display.

And if so, do the displays I listed accept 1080p from component?

Thanks

Dennis

I must have had several bad sets of cables, because I recently swapped my component for HDMI. I rearranged once and needed longer cables and couldn't tell a difference from component to component. But with HDMI, my standard def channels all looks much better. I've got a Toshiba 52HM94 and run motorola hd dvrs (first Comcast, and now Verizon FIOS) and a 6 year old ($300) DVD player. Since I switched to HDMI on the FIOS, I've been itching to get an HDMI capable DVD player and keep all digital there too, but my TV only has the single HDMI port. I guess maybe it won't make that big a difference after all based on what I've read here.

Hello Dennis,

HDCP (High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection) is content protection used when data is transmitted over HDMI or DVI. It "locks" or encrypts the content during transit from device to device to prevent piracy. It has nothing to do with the resolutions available over component video.

The ICT (Image Constraint Token) is the "feature" that can force component outputs on next generation DVD consoles to down-rez their output to SD resolutions. It has not been used on any released title yet.

Now that the copy protection on the Blu-ray and HD DVD formats has been broken, there's no reason pirates would try to steal data from the component outputs, when they can just rip the disk directly. My point in saying this is that it now seems pointless to ever activate the ICT - it would be like latching the back door when the front door is already off its hinges and hanging open.

There's a lot of FUD out there saying that component video is going away - I wouldn't bet on it, especially not now.

Hi Trent,

Thanks for the response.

So to clarify: Going from say a Toshiba HD DVD player via component cable to either a Pioneer FHD1 1080p plasma or a Sony VPL 100 SXRD 1080p the component cables WILL carry the full 1080p signal?

Also, a question on a related topic since you are also in the multi-control business.

Right now, my friend's installer has an ELAN system 12 with 6 zones. The wiring has already been done so unfortunately it's too late to change that. He also has a Denon 5805 for his theater room. He has 4 displays in the house, the Sony VPL 100, the FHD1, another 720p Pioneer plasma, and a smaller 26 inch LCD in the bathroom (why? I don't know.)

The thing here is what does the ELAN System 12 provide that an ELAN 883 does not? This guy is only going to use components so all those composites on the System 12 is a waste. Thus the System 12 only has 5 component ins and outs versus the ELAN 883's 8 separates.

I realize that the System 12 also handles audio but in my understanding can't the Denon 5805 also do this in addition to controlling and amplifying his 7.1 theater room? I had thought the Denon can also control up to 4 zones as well as power up to 24 speakers.

They have him wired for SIX zones right now. So my question is what can the ELAN System 12 do that an ELAN 883 and Denon 5805 CAN'T. Can the Denon and Elan 883 even be hooked up together so that when he switches video signals, the audio also automatically switches with it?

Or is that why he HAS to have the Elan System 12? Because it integrates both audio and video at the same time? Each zone has separate pre-amp and amp of course that then go to the System 12 currently.

Thanks for your expertise.

Dennis

Hi,

I am considering switching from Cable to FIOS. The HD channels are great on cable, but the SD channel picture quality is acceptable to poor. Would you please comment on the FIOS SD quality vs. Cable? Or is upconversion process (in the TOSHIBA?) with HDMI did the trick. I connect my component video directly from STB to a PANNY HD plasma. Thanks.

Surprisingly, TVs do not always support the same resolutions on all the various connectors. For example, I've seen some TVs that will accept 1080p only on the VGA connector, but not on the component or HDMI connection (I suppose the TV maker thought 1080p was something only a PC source could do when it made this design). I think that this "feature" is something that is phasing out now that TV makers realized that 1080p has become a more mainstream capability of CE equipment.

The other thing to note is that although component analog can physically carry 1080p, I have seen several HD-DVD/BD players will max out the component connectors at 720p/1080i, and only turn on 1080p on the HDMI connectors.

I've only be using HDMI for a few months. But, that's enough to come to a couple of conclusioins from my perspective.

The single cable is nice.

Everything else about it is a PITA.

I finally got my Dish network receiver replaced - the wimpy little surface mounted connector failed (over half of the connections were bad). HDMI over fairly long (35 ft) runs requires cable that is too heavy for the connector. A short strain relief jumper can be used (but that's a bandaid).

I've had HDCP problems. Apparently due to marginal performance by something (projector, video processor, or cable - don't know which but hacking the DVD player to eliminate HDCP fixed it). There's nothing quite like watching a movie with friends when the screen goes blank mid stream. Quick! get up and patch in the component connections!

I want to feed both my front projector and a tv set with the output of my video source - usually a video processor. With analog, a simple distribution amp or equipment with multiple output ports, did the job, with HDMI, I apparently need to by a switch - then figure out how to operate the switch so I can use one or the other (not both) display at a time.

I love the idea of a digital interface. I simply want one that is not so restrictive and that I can trust. Don't want to think about what happens as new versions come out.

Andy, I am in the same boat as you except I have not been using HDMI. I have a front projector (Sim2) that only has 1 HDMI input. So far with my HD DirecTv box and my DVD player I have only been using component outputs to my projector and everything work all the time.

Reading about HDMI I am curious to try it out but all I hear is horror stories about problems with it. I tried out DVI a while ago and actually thought component looked better with the colors.

I want to get in the next few weeks a HD-DVD and Blu-Ray player added to my system. I also want to add a 55" plasma or LCD TV behind my 116" screen for casual TV watching or watching sports with the lights on. I would love to run the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray and HD DirecTv box all HDMI to both the projector and TV with HDMI. I found a Geffen HDMI switcher that is 4 in and 2 out. So far nobody can tell me if this will work and I will not have any problems...not having problems is VERY important.

We're in a pretty similar situation. I also have a 3 chip DLP (Infocus) with one DVI input, and an additional TV with two HDMI inputs that's used when I don't want to fire up the pj. The screen is 127" wide, constant height. I haven't paid a lot of attention to performance differences - HDMI vs Component. I've been using the HDMI connnection - I like the idea of fewer D/A and A/D operations.

I think people are more prone to posting horror stories than praise on this type of subject. Non the less, the horror stories are real.

I think that HDMI is fine for the simplest configuration - one source, one tv. Displays are now providing multiple HDMI inputs but I don't know about sources with mulitple outputs.
I suspect that handshaking between source and display is limiting options at this time (one source can't shake hands with multiple displays simultaneously).

The mechanical implementation seems designed for problems. The cables are often too big and heavy for the connector's mechanical properties. The benefits of a tiny connector is offset by the mass of the cable.

Finally, I'd really like to be able to assemble my own cables - not that I'm cheap, but I like to have custom lengths for connections within the equipment rack. I'd rather not have to coil up a 3 ft cable when a 10 inch one is all that's required.

I have a basic question. I will be running cable from my STB/AV Receiver/DVD to the TV which will be mounted on the wall on the opposite side of the room. This will require about 50' of cable. Does anyone have any insight on whether to run HDMI or component for the HD and any experience with long run Monoprice cables? I've seen alot of people saying they've had no problems but I haven't caught any that specifically have used these cables over long runs.

Thanks